what was up with this defensive pre-snap alignment?

[DaU83]

Here's what I don't understand.

Why are we supposedly "scared of getting burnt deep" when our CB's are the best kids on our defense?

And why can't we go Cover-3 if we're scared?

So we won't bring extra guys in the box cause we're scared of being beat deep but we'll allow teams to run down our throat the whole game?

Lemme tell you something, if I had to choose stopping the run vs. stopping the deep ball I'M STOPPING THE RUN. The deep ball is harder to execute than a running play and our CB's are stout.

I don't get that either, and while i'm not on the "fire coach D" train, this is one thing that makes no sense to me.. The deep ball is a much lower percentage play, i'd take my chances more often.. especially when the alternative is what we've been seeing from the defense this year.

 

[Coach Macho]

But doesnt this then go to the argument that the problem here is that we dont have the personnel we need for this system? Because I think we all agree, in the normal football universe, an OLB should be able to flex out and cover a TE. That we have Shayon Green and Gilbert out there having to do that, is more a testament to how F*CKEd we are personnel wise. I agree both those guys are more classic 4-3 DEs than they are OLBs. Just like Chick is a 4-3 DE not a 3-4 DE.

To me, what your argument seems to boil down to is that AG and MD f*cked up by moving to this base 3-4 before they had the players they needed to run it.

Even if we had a guy more athletic than Shayon in that same position...like let's say Tyriq McCord...we'd be wasting his talents by having him line up way out there. Regardless of who we have in place of Shayon, we're still out-numbered in the box. This is a schematical flaw, not a talent flaw.

IMO there's no justifying this alignment, regardless of who's lined up out there on defense.

so if they throw the screen and kill us with it for a TD, then what? "why didn't have have someone out there covering so and so"... The real problem is that we should bring a safety down, leave shayon in the box for run purposes, and go with a single high safety (we're so scared of getting beat deep).. I wouldn't feel too terribly about leaving howard on island on occasion.

That said, sometimes our OLBs are going to have to cover a tight end or a receiver, that's not some crazy out of this world thing that D'Onof is doing to get us killed.

I already said we should bring the Safety down and play Cover-3. Maybe you didn't read my other post. You just suggested the same exact thing that I did.

OLB's covering a TE or WR isn't the main issue. There are times when that will happen, but when and where are the key factors.

In this particular instance...

The WHEN is 2nd & short.
The WHERE is middle of the field.

Why do you want your best run defender outside the numbers on 2nd & short, leaving you with only 6 in the box vs. 7 offensive players? Why do that when you can just drop down the Safety and put Shayon inside?

We're not even playing man in this scenario. The guys up top are playing zone coverage, so unless we're playing a combo coverage than Shayon isn't covering the TE, he's covering curl/flats. And if we ARE indeed playing man at the bottom of the screen then D'Onofrio's even dumber than I thought.

i didn't see your other post. And i don't disagree with you about the when and where. But all these people act like it's criminal to throw an OLB out in coverage, or to have an OLB cover a tight end.. that **** happens.

It's not criminal but it's more ideal to have a Safety cover a Slot WR or TE.

I've said it other threads, there is no avoiding a LB covering a WR or TE. It's bound to happen in certain situations, but that's only in zone. You don't want a LB covering a WR while playing man. (maybe a TE but not a WR)

There's no avoiding it if you're playing zone. If you're in Cover-3 then one of your OLB's is gonna have flats. Well if a WR/TE runs a flat route then guess what, your LB is covering him.

This is my main problem with Miami's offense. We don't attack anybody's Linebackers, but everybody we play attacks ours.

 

[Coach Macho]

Here's what I don't understand.

Why are we supposedly "scared of getting burnt deep" when our CB's are the best kids on our defense?

And why can't we go Cover-3 if we're scared?

So we won't bring extra guys in the box cause we're scared of being beat deep but we'll allow teams to run down our throat the whole game?

Lemme tell you something, if I had to choose stopping the run vs. stopping the deep ball I'M STOPPING THE RUN. The deep ball is harder to execute than a running play and our CB's are stout.

I agree, but FWIW, we were stopping the run pretty effectively earlier in the season. Then offenses started to kill us with the short crossing routes, and we seemed to start playing more man, and trying to sell out against the pass to stop it, which is when Duke came in and just ran hog wild on us as we were outmanned in the box almost ever play. Its like Donofrio kept expecting Duke to attack us the same way everyone else had, but Cutcliff was smart enought to realize that we were selling out to stop the pass, and so we gift wrapped him the middle of the field to run to their hearts content.

We were stopping the run vs. 21 personnel. We suck at stopping the run when teams spread us out. We have no clue what to do.

Man isn't ideal vs. short crossing routes. Matter of fact, short crossers kill man defense.


You keep trying to justify these decisions by D'Onofrio but none of the justifications make sense. Just come to the realization that the dude sucks. LOL

 

[sebastian91]

Wildcat, can you explain who you consider "in the box"? Do LB's 3-4 yds back count as "in the box"? If so, how are we outnumbered? I count 6 of us, and 5 of them (6 if you count the RB)? Thanks.

 

[Coach Macho]

Wildcat, can you explain who you consider "in the box"? Do LB's 3-4 yds back count as "in the box"? If so, how are we outnumbered? I count 6 of us, and 5 of them (6 if you count the RB)? Thanks.

Inside the tackle box. (from the Left O-tackle to the Right O-tackle)

Standard inside LB alignment is heels at 4.5 yards. So yes that's in the box. Standard OLB alignment in the 3-4 is 2x2 yards from the end man on the line-of-scrimmage or the apex of the #2 WR and the Offensive Tackle against 2x2 (spread) offensive formations. This is also considered in the box.

Miami has 6 defenders in the box. 3 D-linemen and 3 Linebackers. UVA has 7 offensive players in the box. 5 linemen and 2 backs. (the QB and RB)

Because UVA runs the read option the QB becomes a running threat which means he must be accounted for on every play. This actually makes him a 6th blocker. One of Miami's 6 defenders must account for him, thus taking away one defender from the RB. So if ONE of our 6 defenders must stay with the QB then that leaves us with only 5 defenders to stop any runs by the RB. (and they have 5 blockers for our 5 defenders)

If you bring a Safety down and run Cover-3 then you even out these numbers.

 

[Ibis4life]

So, for those who say it's not about scheme, defend Green lining up 5 yards from the sideline covering a TE, and Gilbert covering a TE. That should NEVER happen. Opposing OCs don't have to create mismatches, Coach D does it for them.

Green and Gilbert are essentially OLBs. Has either one put their hand in the dirt at any point this season?

An OLB can't cover a TE if he flexes out wide?


The defense is obviously having serious problems, but people are complaining about things that happen all over the country.

Shayon Green is not an OLB. Dude has had 19 knee surgeries. That he's being played as one is a bigger indictment of the coaches. He can barely move. He's a DE, and not even athletic enough to be a DE. As for Gilbert, he's also a DE. If they play him as an OLB in this scheme, that's also a joke considering the Wisconsin doctors didn't clear him to play and he "retired" from football because his foot. Yeah, these guys should be covering anyone. Give me a break. It happens all over the country? Maybe with real OLB. You act like this is a legit OLB, not a DE playing OLB, and 2 who can barely move at that. Also, it's not like they're Cameron Wake or Dion Jordan type DE's either.

Nice try with the, "This happens all over the country" crap. Name one other defensive coach who asks someone like Green, a 6th year guy with knees as bad as my 92 year old Grandma, or Gilbert, whose foot fell off last year, to cover guys. Get out of here with that BS.

Again, it's fine for OLB/DE to cover a TE if their name is Cam Wake, Dion Jordan or Jason Taylor, circa 1999, but Shayon Green. STFU. He can barely walk.

Enough with Green. He is third on the team in tackles, leads the team, by a lot, in tackles for a loss and is third on the team in sacks. He is as healthy as he has ever been and is playing at a high level.

 

[gogeta4]

ive been screaming about us being out flanked pre alignment since these guys got here.....

* offenses dictate to us, even sorry ones like Sav St. And it was stoned in my head that game Bethune Cookman came in and spread us out and did what they wanted until their fat, club security ol got tired and we made a few plays.

* No Frio moved to the booth, which isnt his thing....as he has cost us to get gashed a few times a game because he has to walkie talkie down the play call and then it gets sent in and is why u see us constantly not set and looking to the sideline with a forrest gump stare while the opposing offense is getting set.

* Shayon Green only covers the flats in covg..and he does a terrible job at that. Ive known this from being a game day watcher an not breaking down film. Our defense just based off personnel i can tell what we are running..which is not good if your a dc imo....me being an offensive guy i love it. I know exactly where my guy will be pre snap and the angle i have to take to block him etc...were very stationary when we are set on d. Guys dont realize just how a simple movement can mess up whole offensive plays and blocking schemes.

All this being said i just think No Frio is a bad DC...he needs more seasoning....and i fully expect us to have him again next yr. which will lead to another 3-4 loss season. I also think they'll be coolw ith that as they dont wanna lose Golden. Golden aint cutting dude loose...we gotta hope his wife or someone comes calling, i was giddy when dude was up for the temple job...no chance anybody is interested now.

 

[gogeta4]

So, for those who say it's not about scheme, defend Green lining up 5 yards from the sideline covering a TE, and Gilbert covering a TE. That should NEVER happen. Opposing OCs don't have to create mismatches, Coach D does it for them.

Green and Gilbert are essentially OLBs. Has either one put their hand in the dirt at any point this season?

An OLB can't cover a TE if he flexes out wide?


The defense is obviously having serious problems, but people are complaining about things that happen all over the country.

Shayon Green is not an OLB. Dude has had 19 knee surgeries. That he's being played as one is a bigger indictment of the coaches. He can barely move. He's a DE, and not even athletic enough to be a DE. As for Gilbert, he's also a DE. If they play him as an OLB in this scheme, that's also a joke considering the Wisconsin doctors didn't clear him to play and he "retired" from football because his foot. Yeah, these guys should be covering anyone. Give me a break. It happens all over the country? Maybe with real OLB. You act like this is a legit OLB, not a DE playing OLB, and 2 who can barely move at that. Also, it's not like they're Cameron Wake or Dion Jordan type DE's either.

Nice try with the, "This happens all over the country" crap. Name one other defensive coach who asks someone like Green, a 6th year guy with knees as bad as my 92 year old Grandma, or Gilbert, whose foot fell off last year, to cover guys. Get out of here with that BS.

Again, it's fine for OLB/DE to cover a TE if their name is Cam Wake, Dion Jordan or Jason Taylor, circa 1999, but Shayon Green. STFU. He can barely walk.

Enough with Green. He is third on the team in tackles, leads the team, by a lot, in tackles for a loss and is third on the team in sacks. He is as healthy as he has ever been and is playing at a high level.

Green has played well this yr...forgot to mention. Just some of the things hes asked to do is assinine...he has a role on this team..he can set the edge in the run game he is pretty strong imo...and the guy hustles every play.

The tfl category on our team is a joke...as a guy like Perryman has a grand total of 4 tfl...4... this dude is a downhill lb that knows how to slip blocks and has closing speed. This shows this scheme is b.s....Telvin Smith at FSU might get 2 tfl in one series. We do nothing downhill on this defense...all we do is catch. Which is what they want i guess i just dont understand..............why?...Your no longer at Temple bro

 

[sebastian91]

Wildcat, can you explain who you consider "in the box"? Do LB's 3-4 yds back count as "in the box"? If so, how are we outnumbered? I count 6 of us, and 5 of them (6 if you count the RB)? Thanks.

Inside the tackle box. (from the Left O-tackle to the Right O-tackle)

Standard inside LB alignment is heels at 4.5 yards. So yes that's in the box. Standard OLB alignment in the 3-4 is 2x2 yards from the end man on the line-of-scrimmage or the apex of the #2 WR and the Offensive Tackle against 2x2 (spread) offensive formations. This is also considered in the box.

Miami has 6 defenders in the box. 3 D-linemen and 3 Linebackers. UVA has 7 offensive players in the box. 5 linemen and 2 backs. (the QB and RB)

Because UVA runs the read option the QB becomes a running threat which means he must be accounted for on every play. This actually makes him a 6th blocker. One of Miami's 6 defenders must account for him, thus taking away one defender from the RB. So if ONE of our 6 defenders must stay with the QB then that leaves us with only 5 defenders to stop any runs by the RB. (and they have 5 blockers for our 5 defenders)

If you bring a Safety down and run Cover-3 then you even out these numbers.

Thanks. Doesn't this happen all the time though? At that point, aren't you just relying on defenders shedding blocks and/or keeping him contained within the box?

 

[Notsince1985]

So, for those who say it's not about scheme, defend Green lining up 5 yards from the sideline covering a TE, and Gilbert covering a TE. That should NEVER happen. Opposing OCs don't have to create mismatches, Coach D does it for them.

Green and Gilbert are essentially OLBs. Has either one put their hand in the dirt at any point this season?

An OLB can't cover a TE if he flexes out wide?


The defense is obviously having serious problems, but people are complaining about things that happen all over the country.

Shayon Green is not an OLB. Dude has had 19 knee surgeries. That he's being played as one is a bigger indictment of the coaches. He can barely move. He's a DE, and not even athletic enough to be a DE. As for Gilbert, he's also a DE. If they play him as an OLB in this scheme, that's also a joke considering the Wisconsin doctors didn't clear him to play and he "retired" from football because his foot. Yeah, these guys should be covering anyone. Give me a break. It happens all over the country? Maybe with real OLB. You act like this is a legit OLB, not a DE playing OLB, and 2 who can barely move at that. Also, it's not like they're Cameron Wake or Dion Jordan type DE's either.

Nice try with the, "This happens all over the country" crap. Name one other defensive coach who asks someone like Green, a 6th year guy with knees as bad as my 92 year old Grandma, or Gilbert, whose foot fell off last year, to cover guys. Get out of here with that BS.

Again, it's fine for OLB/DE to cover a TE if their name is Cam Wake, Dion Jordan or Jason Taylor, circa 1999, but Shayon Green. STFU. He can barely walk.

Enough with Green. He is third on the team in tackles, leads the team, by a lot, in tackles for a loss and is third on the team in sacks. He is as healthy as he has ever been and is playing at a high level.

So? Where did I knock him? Where did I say anything negative about his play as a DE or against the run or how tackles he has? Oh, that's right, you can't find it, because I didn't. I said it's asinine to have him and his horrible knees (which is a reality) LINE UP OUTSIDE AND COVER SOMEONE. How freaking hard is that to understand? If anything, I feel bad for him that the coaches are asking him to do it.

 

[Notsince1985]

But doesnt this then go to the argument that the problem here is that we dont have the personnel we need for this system? Because I think we all agree, in the normal football universe, an OLB should be able to flex out and cover a TE. That we have Shayon Green and Gilbert out there having to do that, is more a testament to how F*CKEd we are personnel wise. I agree both those guys are more classic 4-3 DEs than they are OLBs. Just like Chick is a 4-3 DE not a 3-4 DE.

To me, what your argument seems to boil down to is that AG and MD f*cked up by moving to this base 3-4 before they had the players they needed to run it.

Even if we had a guy more athletic than Shayon in that same position...like let's say Tyriq McCord...we'd be wasting his talents by having him line up way out there. Regardless of who we have in place of Shayon, we're still out-numbered in the box. This is a schematical flaw, not a talent flaw.

IMO there's no justifying this alignment, regardless of who's lined up out there on defense.

so if they throw the screen and kill us with it for a TD, then what? "why didn't have have someone out there covering so and so"... The real problem is that we should bring a safety down, leave shayon in the box for run purposes, and go with a single high safety (we're so scared of getting beat deep).. I wouldn't feel too terribly about leaving howard on island on occasion.

That said, sometimes our OLBs are going to have to cover a tight end or a receiver, that's not some crazy out of this world thing that D'Onof is doing to get us killed.

I already said we should bring the Safety down and play Cover-3. Maybe you didn't read my other post. You just suggested the same exact thing that I did.

OLB's covering a TE or WR isn't the main issue. There are times when that will happen, but when and where are the key factors.

In this particular instance...

The WHEN is 2nd & short.
The WHERE is middle of the field.

Why do you want your best run defender outside the numbers on 2nd & short, leaving you with only 6 in the box vs. 7 offensive players? Why do that when you can just drop down the Safety and put Shayon inside?

We're not even playing man in this scenario. The guys up top are playing zone coverage, so unless we're playing a combo coverage than Shayon isn't covering the TE, he's covering curl/flats. And if we ARE indeed playing man at the bottom of the screen then D'Onofrio's even dumber than I thought.

i didn't see your other post. And i don't disagree with you about the when and where. But all these people act like it's criminal to throw an OLB out in coverage, or to have an OLB cover a tight end.. that **** happens.

No, people (at least me) act like it's criminal when the "OLB" and notice I put " around OLB is someone like Green. Again, we're not talking about an overly athletic, nimble and fast OLB. That would make at least some sense. This does not.

 

[Coach Macho]

So, for those who say it's not about scheme, defend Green lining up 5 yards from the sideline covering a TE, and Gilbert covering a TE. That should NEVER happen. Opposing OCs don't have to create mismatches, Coach D does it for them.

Green and Gilbert are essentially OLBs. Has either one put their hand in the dirt at any point this season?

An OLB can't cover a TE if he flexes out wide?


The defense is obviously having serious problems, but people are complaining about things that happen all over the country.

Shayon Green is not an OLB. Dude has had 19 knee surgeries. That he's being played as one is a bigger indictment of the coaches. He can barely move. He's a DE, and not even athletic enough to be a DE. As for Gilbert, he's also a DE. If they play him as an OLB in this scheme, that's also a joke considering the Wisconsin doctors didn't clear him to play and he "retired" from football because his foot. Yeah, these guys should be covering anyone. Give me a break. It happens all over the country? Maybe with real OLB. You act like this is a legit OLB, not a DE playing OLB, and 2 who can barely move at that. Also, it's not like they're Cameron Wake or Dion Jordan type DE's either.

Nice try with the, "This happens all over the country" crap. Name one other defensive coach who asks someone like Green, a 6th year guy with knees as bad as my 92 year old Grandma, or Gilbert, whose foot fell off last year, to cover guys. Get out of here with that BS.

Again, it's fine for OLB/DE to cover a TE if their name is Cam Wake, Dion Jordan or Jason Taylor, circa 1999, but Shayon Green. STFU. He can barely walk.

Enough with Green. He is third on the team in tackles, leads the team, by a lot, in tackles for a loss and is third on the team in sacks. He is as healthy as he has ever been and is playing at a high level.

Not exactly an outstanding accomplishment within this particular defensive unit. Kinda like being the smartest ****** or the tallest midget.

 

[FullyERicht]

This is the result of the fact that if they show nickel, it is telegraphing to the opposing OC they are in man2man. So they can't really do it. Instead they have to have LBs covering. The second issue is for some reason we refuse to play Cover-1, which would have had one of the safeties cover the TE where Green is, and Green rushing from the LOS, or showing rush and dropping into a zone.

Of course the other thing is b/c this is a run play we don't really know what the call was. They could have showed this man-2 look and dropped into cover-3 with the OLBs Covering the flats, and one of the safeties taking a middle zone with the other two backers (though that would be foolish on a 2nd and 5). They could have played straight up Cover-2 and zone blitzed the WILL. Or they could have simply played man 2 knowing that there was safety help. It is very common for a SOLB in a 3-4 to cover a TE. Smart OC's, knowing this, simply align them outside, and while this doesn't change the nature of the SOLB's role in covering, it changes how many defenders are in the box, and opens up the run.

The real issue isn't that Green is covering. It's not uncommon to ask this of your OLBs. It's that the defense is predicated on so many moving parts, and that they don't trust a single high safety ever, and a DL that is playing a 2-gap front they can't handle, that there are constant breakdowns.

Who says Nickel means man-to-man? You can play any coverage out of Nickel.

You can try to justify our alignment anyway you want to but the fact is that it's extremely flawed. We're out-numbered in the box. We have no edge player to bottom.

They don't play nickel in any of their zone coverages, which is their bread and butter. That's the ENTIRE POINT OF RUNNING THE 3-4 for them: to be able to defend spread attacks with base personnel. Have you read their playbook? You constantly spout off about stuff, without any context. Btw, the C gaps are the responsibility of the DE's who are lined up head up on the OTs in this play. I haven't fully studied the run fits, but I imagine the two ILB are involved in run defense. This is why they run a two gap 3-4. Do i think it's worth it? NO. But stop acting like you know more than they do. I'd love to read your playbook, and see if it is even half as intricate as theirs is.

The system doesn't work b/c A) they aren't able to teach it B) the front is nearly impossible to do successfully C) the talent level forces them into cover-2 and 3 all game.....

 

[RiDLer80]

They don't play nickel in any of their zone coverages, which is their bread and butter. That's the ENTIRE POINT OF RUNNING THE 3-4 for them: to be able to defend spread attacks with base personnel. Have you read their playbook? You constantly spout off about stuff, without any context. Btw, the C gaps are the responsibility of the DE's who are lined up head up on the OTs in this play. I haven't fully studied the run fits, but I imagine the two ILB are involved in run defense. This is why they run a two gap 3-4. Do i think it's worth it? NO. But stop acting like you know more than they do. I'd love to read your playbook, and see if it is even half as intricate as theirs is.

The system doesn't work b/c A) they aren't able to teach it B) the front is nearly impossible to do successfully C) the talent level forces them into cover-2 and 3 all game.....

LULZ at those reasons the the system is working.

A.) It's been 3 years. If they can't teach this, then walk.
B.) Do I really need to elaborate on this?
C.) So they're running a defense that they know they don't have the personnel for because...why? Pruitt at FSU wanted to run a 3-4 this year, noticed they didn't have the personnel for it, adapted and their defense looks 10 times better than it did at the beginning of the season.

Continuing to run this defense is a joke. Also, you mentioned that the DE is supposed to have the B&C gaps, that doesn't change the fact that we're still outnumbered in the box. A simple combo block from the DE up the LB and there are gaping holes for the RB. This is bad defensive alignment.

 

[FullyERicht]

WCD: again, as I mentioned in my first post in this thread, we don't really know what they were running coverage wise b/c it ended in a run. My honest guess was they showed man-2, and were going to drop into cover 3 with Green covering the flat. If green doesn't flex out with the TE there, you'd be complaining that no one was there to cover the TE on a quick throw.

I want to be extremely clear here: I would fire D'Ono, and scrap the defensive front in favor of a single gap front. I'd simplify the run fits, keep all the simple zone blitzes and make things extremely basic and simple. But this idea that our coaches are sitting there and "cluelessly putting our best 4-3 run stuffer in coverage" is inaccurate and unfair.

 

[DiegoCane]

Here's what I don't understand.

Why are we supposedly "scared of getting burnt deep" when our CB's are the best kids on our defense?

And why can't we go Cover-3 if we're scared?

So we won't bring extra guys in the box cause we're scared of being beat deep but we'll allow teams to run down our throat the whole game?

Lemme tell you something, if I had to choose stopping the run vs. stopping the deep ball I'M STOPPING THE RUN. The deep ball is harder to execute than a running play and our CB's are stout.

This drives me nuts. This is college football, QBs are not that accurate to beat you deep consistently. Instead teams can just crush us with the run game or short passing attack. Virginia abused us besides the 3rd quarter. We got fortunate they made a bunch of mistakes that led to a few huge TOs.

 

[FullyERicht]

They don't play nickel in any of their zone coverages, which is their bread and butter. That's the ENTIRE POINT OF RUNNING THE 3-4 for them: to be able to defend spread attacks with base personnel. Have you read their playbook? You constantly spout off about stuff, without any context. Btw, the C gaps are the responsibility of the DE's who are lined up head up on the OTs in this play. I haven't fully studied the run fits, but I imagine the two ILB are involved in run defense. This is why they run a two gap 3-4. Do i think it's worth it? NO. But stop acting like you know more than they do. I'd love to read your playbook, and see if it is even half as intricate as theirs is.

The system doesn't work b/c A) they aren't able to teach it B) the front is nearly impossible to do successfully C) the talent level forces them into cover-2 and 3 all game.....

LULZ at those reasons the the system is working.

A.) It's been 3 years. If they can't teach this, then walk.
B.) Do I really need to elaborate on this?
C.) So they're running a defense that they know they don't have the personnel for because...why? Pruitt at FSU wanted to run a 3-4 this year, noticed they didn't have the personnel for it, adapted and their defense looks 10 times better than it did at the beginning of the season.

Continuing to run this defense is a joke. Also, you mentioned that the DE is supposed to have the B&C gaps, that doesn't change the fact that we're still outnumbered in the box. A simple combo block from the DE up the LB and there are gaping holes for the RB. This is bad defensive alignment.

Where have you ever read that I support this system? I've been more than clear that after 3 years, it's obvious the system will not work effectively. I've made it abundantly clear that the 2-gap front is the actual source of our problems, and that we also have a ton of jags playing simply bc they can understand this complex system better than their more talented, greener counterparts.

But there is nothing wrong with this defense schematically, it's just not meant for college ball players unless you are at Stanford and recruit extremely high IQ kids who will stay for 5 years. I'm not defending this defense being here. It needs to be gone. But i'm also tired of people thinking that the problem is Golden knows less than an average HS DC.

 

[DiegoCane]

So, for those who say it's not about scheme, defend Green lining up 5 yards from the sideline covering a TE, and Gilbert covering a TE. That should NEVER happen. Opposing OCs don't have to create mismatches, Coach D does it for them.

Green and Gilbert are essentially OLBs. Has either one put their hand in the dirt at any point this season?

An OLB can't cover a TE if he flexes out wide?


The defense is obviously having serious problems, but people are complaining about things that happen all over the country.

Shayon Green is not an OLB. Dude has had 19 knee surgeries. That he's being played as one is a bigger indictment of the coaches. He can barely move. He's a DE, and not even athletic enough to be a DE. As for Gilbert, he's also a DE. If they play him as an OLB in this scheme, that's also a joke considering the Wisconsin doctors didn't clear him to play and he "retired" from football because his foot. Yeah, these guys should be covering anyone. Give me a break. It happens all over the country? Maybe with real OLB. You act like this is a legit OLB, not a DE playing OLB, and 2 who can barely move at that. Also, it's not like they're Cameron Wake or Dion Jordan type DE's either.

Nice try with the, "This happens all over the country" crap. Name one other defensive coach who asks someone like Green, a 6th year guy with knees as bad as my 92 year old Grandma, or Gilbert, whose foot fell off last year, to cover guys. Get out of here with that BS.

Again, it's fine for OLB/DE to cover a TE if their name is Cam Wake, Dion Jordan or Jason Taylor, circa 1999, but Shayon Green. STFU. He can barely walk.

Enough with Green. He is third on the team in tackles, leads the team, by a lot, in tackles for a loss and is third on the team in sacks. He is as healthy as he has ever been and is playing at a high level.

Green has played well this yr...forgot to mention. Just some of the things hes asked to do is assinine...he has a role on this team..he can set the edge in the run game he is pretty strong imo...and the guy hustles every play.

The tfl category on our team is a joke...as a guy like Perryman has a grand total of 4 tfl...4... this dude is a downhill lb that knows how to slip blocks and has closing speed. This shows this scheme is b.s....Telvin Smith at FSU might get 2 tfl in one series. We do nothing downhill on this defense...all we do is catch. Which is what they want i guess i just dont understand..............why?...Your no longer at Temple bro

Pretty much nailed it.

That is why I don't blame a lot of these players for not making plays. They aren't put in position to make them. Its hard to play fast when you are always on your heels.

 

[CANE4LIFE]

Here's what I don't understand.

Why are we supposedly "scared of getting burnt deep" when our CB's are the best kids on our defense?

And why can't we go Cover-3 if we're scared?

So we won't bring extra guys in the box cause we're scared of being beat deep but we'll allow teams to run down our throat the whole game?

Lemme tell you something, if I had to choose stopping the run vs. stopping the deep ball I'M STOPPING THE RUN. The deep ball is harder to execute than a running play and our CB's are stout.

I agree, but FWIW, we were stopping the run pretty effectively earlier in the season. Then offenses started to kill us with the short crossing routes, and we seemed to start playing more man, and trying to sell out against the pass to stop it, which is when Duke came in and just ran hog wild on us as we were outmanned in the box almost ever play. Its like Donofrio kept expecting Duke to attack us the same way everyone else had, but Cutcliff was smart enought to realize that we were selling out to stop the pass, and so we gift wrapped him the middle of the field to run to their hearts content.

We were stopping the run vs. 21 personnel. We suck at stopping the run when teams spread us out. We have no clue what to do.

Man isn't ideal vs. short crossing routes. Matter of fact, short crossers kill man defense.


You keep trying to justify these decisions by D'Onofrio but none of the justifications make sense. Just come to the realization that the dude sucks. LOL

Im not trying to justify sh*t. Im simply trying to understand the thought process by which they are doing what they are doing. Because it doesnt seem to make sense or work, but there has to be SOME rationale behind it, even if its flawed, or he sucks as a DC. Im just speculating on what it is he has been trying to do.

 

[RiDLer80]

LULZ at those reasons the the system is working.

A.) It's been 3 years. If they can't teach this, then walk.
B.) Do I really need to elaborate on this?
C.) So they're running a defense that they know they don't have the personnel for because...why? Pruitt at FSU wanted to run a 3-4 this year, noticed they didn't have the personnel for it, adapted and their defense looks 10 times better than it did at the beginning of the season.

Continuing to run this defense is a joke. Also, you mentioned that the DE is supposed to have the B&C gaps, that doesn't change the fact that we're still outnumbered in the box. A simple combo block from the DE up the LB and there are gaping holes for the RB. This is bad defensive alignment.

Where have you ever read that I support this system? I've been more than clear that after 3 years, it's obvious the system will not work effectively. I've made it abundantly clear that the 2-gap front is the actual source of our problems, and that we also have a ton of jags playing simply bc they can understand this complex system better than their more talented, greener counterparts.

But there is nothing wrong with this defense schematically, it's just not meant for college ball players unless you are at Stanford and recruit extremely high IQ kids who will stay for 5 years. I'm not defending this defense being here. It needs to be gone. But i'm also tired of people thinking that the problem is Golden knows less than an average HS DC.

I wasn't trying to convince you that this defense isn't gonna work. I was just extending on the points you made about why the defense isn't working. They're huge ******* problems that would probably make most coaches rethink their philosophy. I don't care whether or not you agree with this system. I was just making an observation based on your post.

Also, schematically there is a lot wrong with this system. Every offense except for USF has figured out how to take advantage of our defense. Whether it's simple crossing routes in the passing game, a simple bubble screen, or spreading the defense out and creating huge running lanes this defense has been gashed time and time again.