what was up with this defensive pre-snap alignment?

[AtrainCane]

Jesus, Able. You've lost it.

Put McCord out there, and even then I cringe. But a kid wearing 16 knee braces that shoots sparks and nuts and bolts from his knee caps anytime he runs? C'mon. You're so committed to defending your original stance that you're talking madness.

:ibisroflmao: stop man, Im dying here :ibisroflmao:

 

[Coach Macho]

If you put McCord in for that kind of situation, I think they run right at him because he is too light in the *** to hold the line.

Run right at him, HOW? He's wayyyy out of the box. You don't even have to. Our DC has taken him out of the run game by alignment.

 

[CANE4LIFE]

So, for those who say it's not about scheme, defend Green lining up 5 yards from the sideline covering a TE, and Gilbert covering a TE. That should NEVER happen. Opposing OCs don't have to create mismatches, Coach D does it for them.

Green and Gilbert are essentially OLBs. Has either one put their hand in the dirt at any point this season?

An OLB can't cover a TE if he flexes out wide?


The defense is obviously having serious problems, but people are complaining about things that happen all over the country.

Shayon Green is not an OLB. Dude has had 19 knee surgeries. That he's being played as one is a bigger indictment of the coaches. He can barely move. He's a DE, and not even athletic enough to be a DE. As for Gilbert, he's also a DE. If they play him as an OLB in this scheme, that's also a joke considering the Wisconsin doctors didn't clear him to play and he "retired" from football because his foot. Yeah, these guys should be covering anyone. Give me a break. It happens all over the country? Maybe with real OLB. You act like this is a legit OLB, not a DE playing OLB, and 2 who can barely move at that. Also, it's not like they're Cameron Wake or Dion Jordan type DE's either.

Nice try with the, "This happens all over the country" crap. Name one other defensive coach who asks someone like Green, a 6th year guy with knees as bad as my 92 year old Grandma, or Gilbert, whose foot fell off last year, to cover guys. Get out of here with that BS.

Again, it's fine for OLB/DE to cover a TE if their name is Cam Wake, Dion Jordan or Jason Taylor, circa 1999, but Shayon Green. STFU. He can barely walk.

So only NFL all-pros like Cam Wake can cover TEs? LBs have coverage responsibilities.

None of this **** is ideal. What does it say about our roster if a guy who "can barely walk" is locking down a spot?


We clearly have issues, but I don't think our coaches are as dumb as you think they are.

No, I used that type of player as an example. There are college players of that mold. Green is not one. Jordan was last year, how's that? Gilbert was that before his injuries, but now he's not. Way to take what I said so literally though and not get the obvious point I was making.

But doesnt this then go to the argument that the problem here is that we dont have the personnel we need for this system? Because I think we all agree, in the normal football universe, an OLB should be able to flex out and cover a TE. That we have Shayon Green and Gilbert out there having to do that, is more a testament to how F*CKEd we are personnel wise. I agree both those guys are more classic 4-3 DEs than they are OLBs. Just like Chick is a 4-3 DE not a 3-4 DE.

To me, what your argument seems to boil down to is that AG and MD f*cked up by moving to this base 3-4 before they had the players they needed to run it.

 

[sebastian91]

Not that we'd get an answer anyway, but I'd be curious to hear Golden or Coach D's explanation for it...whether it's by design, and if so what's the rationale, or whether someone messed up...

 

[CANE4LIFE]

This is the result of the fact that if they show nickel, it is telegraphing to the opposing OC they are in man2man. So they can't really do it. Instead they have to have LBs covering. The second issue is for some reason we refuse to play Cover-1, which would have had one of the safeties cover the TE where Green is, and Green rushing from the LOS, or showing rush and dropping into a zone.

Of course the other thing is b/c this is a run play we don't really know what the call was. They could have showed this man-2 look and dropped into cover-3 with the OLBs Covering the flats, and one of the safeties taking a middle zone with the other two backers (though that would be foolish on a 2nd and 5). They could have played straight up Cover-2 and zone blitzed the WILL. Or they could have simply played man 2 knowing that there was safety help. It is very common for a SOLB in a 3-4 to cover a TE. Smart OC's, knowing this, simply align them outside, and while this doesn't change the nature of the SOLB's role in covering, it changes how many defenders are in the box, and opens up the run.

The real issue isn't that Green is covering. It's not uncommon to ask this of your OLBs. It's that the defense is predicated on so many moving parts, and that they don't trust a single high safety ever, and a DL that is playing a 2-gap front they can't handle, that there are constant breakdowns.

Who says Nickel means man-to-man? You can play any coverage out of Nickel.

You can try to justify our alignment anyway you want to but the fact is that it's extremely flawed. We're out-numbered in the box. We have no edge player to bottom.

This is absolutely true, and frankly probably the most mind boggling of what we do. Even on obvious run downs, we have the safties out on f*cking Pluto with 6 guys in the box. I mean I understand the idea that you are willing to give up yardage in order to avoid getting burned by a "big play", but when a team is running for 300 yards on you, and still gashing you, then at some point you have to move a f*cking safety up.

 

[Notsince1985]

Green and Gilbert are essentially OLBs. Has either one put their hand in the dirt at any point this season?

An OLB can't cover a TE if he flexes out wide?


The defense is obviously having serious problems, but people are complaining about things that happen all over the country.

Shayon Green is not an OLB. Dude has had 19 knee surgeries. That he's being played as one is a bigger indictment of the coaches. He can barely move. He's a DE, and not even athletic enough to be a DE. As for Gilbert, he's also a DE. If they play him as an OLB in this scheme, that's also a joke considering the Wisconsin doctors didn't clear him to play and he "retired" from football because his foot. Yeah, these guys should be covering anyone. Give me a break. It happens all over the country? Maybe with real OLB. You act like this is a legit OLB, not a DE playing OLB, and 2 who can barely move at that. Also, it's not like they're Cameron Wake or Dion Jordan type DE's either.

Nice try with the, "This happens all over the country" crap. Name one other defensive coach who asks someone like Green, a 6th year guy with knees as bad as my 92 year old Grandma, or Gilbert, whose foot fell off last year, to cover guys. Get out of here with that BS.

Again, it's fine for OLB/DE to cover a TE if their name is Cam Wake, Dion Jordan or Jason Taylor, circa 1999, but Shayon Green. STFU. He can barely walk.

So only NFL all-pros like Cam Wake can cover TEs? LBs have coverage responsibilities.

None of this **** is ideal. What does it say about our roster if a guy who "can barely walk" is locking down a spot?


We clearly have issues, but I don't think our coaches are as dumb as you think they are.

No, I used that type of player as an example. There are college players of that mold. Green is not one. Jordan was last year, how's that? Gilbert was that before his injuries, but now he's not. Way to take what I said so literally though and not get the obvious point I was making.

But doesnt this then go to the argument that the problem here is that we dont have the personnel we need for this system? Because I think we all agree, in the normal football universe, an OLB should be able to flex out and cover a TE. That we have Shayon Green and Gilbert out there having to do that, is more a testament to how F*CKEd we are personnel wise. I agree both those guys are more classic 4-3 DEs than they are OLBs. Just like Chick is a 4-3 DE not a 3-4 DE.

To me, what your argument seems to boil down to is that AG and MD f*cked up by moving to this base 3-4 before they had the players they needed to run it.

Then don't do it! Good lord. If we don't have the personnel to run it, how freaking stubborn are the coaches? Just do it because? That's dumb as ****. If you know it's not going to work, and you know you're going to get burned doing it, why do it? There is absolutely no way you can convince me a guy like Green can or should be asked to do that.

 

[CANE4LIFE]

Not that we'd get an answer anyway, but I'd be curious to hear Golden or Coach D's explanation for it...whether it's by design, and if so what's the rationale, or whether someone messed up...

That would not surprise me the least bit either. The entire defense looks confused and lost pre snap almost every play. How many times this year have we been caught with the entire D looking at the sidelines while the offense is about to snap the ball? Or guys regularly lined up wrong, or looking at eachother, etc.

They dont understand the defense. That is part coaching, but also part this massive influx of new people we rolled in. You have young players, mixed with a bunch of transfers, and its probably making things that much worse.

 

[CANE4LIFE]

Shayon Green is not an OLB. Dude has had 19 knee surgeries. That he's being played as one is a bigger indictment of the coaches. He can barely move. He's a DE, and not even athletic enough to be a DE. As for Gilbert, he's also a DE. If they play him as an OLB in this scheme, that's also a joke considering the Wisconsin doctors didn't clear him to play and he "retired" from football because his foot. Yeah, these guys should be covering anyone. Give me a break. It happens all over the country? Maybe with real OLB. You act like this is a legit OLB, not a DE playing OLB, and 2 who can barely move at that. Also, it's not like they're Cameron Wake or Dion Jordan type DE's either.

Nice try with the, "This happens all over the country" crap. Name one other defensive coach who asks someone like Green, a 6th year guy with knees as bad as my 92 year old Grandma, or Gilbert, whose foot fell off last year, to cover guys. Get out of here with that BS.

Again, it's fine for OLB/DE to cover a TE if their name is Cam Wake, Dion Jordan or Jason Taylor, circa 1999, but Shayon Green. STFU. He can barely walk.

So only NFL all-pros like Cam Wake can cover TEs? LBs have coverage responsibilities.

None of this **** is ideal. What does it say about our roster if a guy who "can barely walk" is locking down a spot?


We clearly have issues, but I don't think our coaches are as dumb as you think they are.

No, I used that type of player as an example. There are college players of that mold. Green is not one. Jordan was last year, how's that? Gilbert was that before his injuries, but now he's not. Way to take what I said so literally though and not get the obvious point I was making.

But doesnt this then go to the argument that the problem here is that we dont have the personnel we need for this system? Because I think we all agree, in the normal football universe, an OLB should be able to flex out and cover a TE. That we have Shayon Green and Gilbert out there having to do that, is more a testament to how F*CKEd we are personnel wise. I agree both those guys are more classic 4-3 DEs than they are OLBs. Just like Chick is a 4-3 DE not a 3-4 DE.

To me, what your argument seems to boil down to is that AG and MD f*cked up by moving to this base 3-4 before they had the players they needed to run it.

Then don't do it! Good lord. If we don't have the personnel to run it, how freaking stubborn are the coaches? Just do it because? That's dumb as ****. If you know it's not going to work, and you know you're going to get burned doing it, why do it? There is absolutely no way you can convince me a guy like Green can or should be asked to do that.

I agree with you. But that is too obvious of an answer. There has to be SOME reason why they havent changed. Either they feel that its too late to scrap it all and do something totally different, or they just dont feel they have any other choice player wise. I mean who else are you going to put there in that situation? Chick? I mean weve seen what Cornelius does in Coverage. Maybe the scouting showed that when UVA lined up like that, it was usually a run play anyway, so they didnt think Green would have to cover much other than an underneath route at worst. Im just saying, its too simple to NOT be obvious to the staff. So what vexes me is what else is really wrong/going on beneath the surface that they insist on doing this?

 

[Coach Macho]

Green and Gilbert are essentially OLBs. Has either one put their hand in the dirt at any point this season?

An OLB can't cover a TE if he flexes out wide?


The defense is obviously having serious problems, but people are complaining about things that happen all over the country.

Shayon Green is not an OLB. Dude has had 19 knee surgeries. That he's being played as one is a bigger indictment of the coaches. He can barely move. He's a DE, and not even athletic enough to be a DE. As for Gilbert, he's also a DE. If they play him as an OLB in this scheme, that's also a joke considering the Wisconsin doctors didn't clear him to play and he "retired" from football because his foot. Yeah, these guys should be covering anyone. Give me a break. It happens all over the country? Maybe with real OLB. You act like this is a legit OLB, not a DE playing OLB, and 2 who can barely move at that. Also, it's not like they're Cameron Wake or Dion Jordan type DE's either.

Nice try with the, "This happens all over the country" crap. Name one other defensive coach who asks someone like Green, a 6th year guy with knees as bad as my 92 year old Grandma, or Gilbert, whose foot fell off last year, to cover guys. Get out of here with that BS.

Again, it's fine for OLB/DE to cover a TE if their name is Cam Wake, Dion Jordan or Jason Taylor, circa 1999, but Shayon Green. STFU. He can barely walk.

So only NFL all-pros like Cam Wake can cover TEs? LBs have coverage responsibilities.

None of this **** is ideal. What does it say about our roster if a guy who "can barely walk" is locking down a spot?


We clearly have issues, but I don't think our coaches are as dumb as you think they are.

No, I used that type of player as an example. There are college players of that mold. Green is not one. Jordan was last year, how's that? Gilbert was that before his injuries, but now he's not. Way to take what I said so literally though and not get the obvious point I was making.

But doesnt this then go to the argument that the problem here is that we dont have the personnel we need for this system? Because I think we all agree, in the normal football universe, an OLB should be able to flex out and cover a TE. That we have Shayon Green and Gilbert out there having to do that, is more a testament to how F*CKEd we are personnel wise. I agree both those guys are more classic 4-3 DEs than they are OLBs. Just like Chick is a 4-3 DE not a 3-4 DE.

To me, what your argument seems to boil down to is that AG and MD f*cked up by moving to this base 3-4 before they had the players they needed to run it.

Even if we had a guy more athletic than Shayon in that same position...like let's say Tyriq McCord...we'd be wasting his talents by having him line up way out there. Regardless of who we have in place of Shayon, we're still out-numbered in the box. This is a schematical flaw, not a talent flaw.

IMO there's no justifying this alignment, regardless of who's lined up out there on defense.

 

[Coach Macho]

So only NFL all-pros like Cam Wake can cover TEs? LBs have coverage responsibilities.

None of this **** is ideal. What does it say about our roster if a guy who "can barely walk" is locking down a spot?


We clearly have issues, but I don't think our coaches are as dumb as you think they are.

No, I used that type of player as an example. There are college players of that mold. Green is not one. Jordan was last year, how's that? Gilbert was that before his injuries, but now he's not. Way to take what I said so literally though and not get the obvious point I was making.

But doesnt this then go to the argument that the problem here is that we dont have the personnel we need for this system? Because I think we all agree, in the normal football universe, an OLB should be able to flex out and cover a TE. That we have Shayon Green and Gilbert out there having to do that, is more a testament to how F*CKEd we are personnel wise. I agree both those guys are more classic 4-3 DEs than they are OLBs. Just like Chick is a 4-3 DE not a 3-4 DE.

To me, what your argument seems to boil down to is that AG and MD f*cked up by moving to this base 3-4 before they had the players they needed to run it.

Then don't do it! Good lord. If we don't have the personnel to run it, how freaking stubborn are the coaches? Just do it because? That's dumb as ****. If you know it's not going to work, and you know you're going to get burned doing it, why do it? There is absolutely no way you can convince me a guy like Green can or should be asked to do that.

I agree with you. But that is too obvious of an answer. There has to be SOME reason why they havent changed. Either they feel that its too late to scrap it all and do something totally different, or they just dont feel they have any other choice player wise. I mean who else are you going to put there in that situation? Chick? I mean weve seen what Cornelius does in Coverage. Maybe the scouting showed that when UVA lined up like that, it was usually a run play anyway, so they didnt think Green would have to cover much other than an underneath route at worst. Im just saying, its too simple to NOT be obvious to the staff. So what vexes me is what else is really wrong/going on beneath the surface that they insist on doing this?

So if the scouting report showed that it would most likely be a run play then why take one of your best run defenders (Shayon) out of the box and line him up outside the numbers?

Besides, it's nothing more than a standard 2x2 formation. Nothing about that formation guarantees run.

 

[DaU83]

Shayon Green is not an OLB. Dude has had 19 knee surgeries. That he's being played as one is a bigger indictment of the coaches. He can barely move. He's a DE, and not even athletic enough to be a DE. As for Gilbert, he's also a DE. If they play him as an OLB in this scheme, that's also a joke considering the Wisconsin doctors didn't clear him to play and he "retired" from football because his foot. Yeah, these guys should be covering anyone. Give me a break. It happens all over the country? Maybe with real OLB. You act like this is a legit OLB, not a DE playing OLB, and 2 who can barely move at that. Also, it's not like they're Cameron Wake or Dion Jordan type DE's either.

Nice try with the, "This happens all over the country" crap. Name one other defensive coach who asks someone like Green, a 6th year guy with knees as bad as my 92 year old Grandma, or Gilbert, whose foot fell off last year, to cover guys. Get out of here with that BS.

Again, it's fine for OLB/DE to cover a TE if their name is Cam Wake, Dion Jordan or Jason Taylor, circa 1999, but Shayon Green. STFU. He can barely walk.

So only NFL all-pros like Cam Wake can cover TEs? LBs have coverage responsibilities.

None of this **** is ideal. What does it say about our roster if a guy who "can barely walk" is locking down a spot?


We clearly have issues, but I don't think our coaches are as dumb as you think they are.

No, I used that type of player as an example. There are college players of that mold. Green is not one. Jordan was last year, how's that? Gilbert was that before his injuries, but now he's not. Way to take what I said so literally though and not get the obvious point I was making.

But doesnt this then go to the argument that the problem here is that we dont have the personnel we need for this system? Because I think we all agree, in the normal football universe, an OLB should be able to flex out and cover a TE. That we have Shayon Green and Gilbert out there having to do that, is more a testament to how F*CKEd we are personnel wise. I agree both those guys are more classic 4-3 DEs than they are OLBs. Just like Chick is a 4-3 DE not a 3-4 DE.

To me, what your argument seems to boil down to is that AG and MD f*cked up by moving to this base 3-4 before they had the players they needed to run it.

Even if we had a guy more athletic than Shayon in that same position...like let's say Tyriq McCord...we'd be wasting his talents by having him line up way out there. Regardless of who we have in place of Shayon, we're still out-numbered in the box. This is a schematical flaw, not a talent flaw.

IMO there's no justifying this alignment, regardless of who's lined up out there on defense.

so if they throw the screen and kill us with it for a TD, then what? "why didn't have have someone out there covering so and so"... The real problem is that we should bring a safety down, leave shayon in the box for run purposes, and go with a single high safety (we're so scared of getting beat deep).. I wouldn't feel too terribly about leaving howard on island on occasion.

That said, sometimes our OLBs are going to have to cover a tight end or a receiver, that's not some crazy out of this world thing that D'Onof is doing to get us killed.

 

[HurricaneU]

If you put McCord in for that kind of situation, I think they run right at him because he is too light in the *** to hold the line.

Run right at him, HOW? He's wayyyy out of the box. You don't even have to. Our DC has taken him out of the run game by alignment.

TE motions back?

 

[Coach Macho]

So only NFL all-pros like Cam Wake can cover TEs? LBs have coverage responsibilities.

None of this **** is ideal. What does it say about our roster if a guy who "can barely walk" is locking down a spot?


We clearly have issues, but I don't think our coaches are as dumb as you think they are.

No, I used that type of player as an example. There are college players of that mold. Green is not one. Jordan was last year, how's that? Gilbert was that before his injuries, but now he's not. Way to take what I said so literally though and not get the obvious point I was making.

But doesnt this then go to the argument that the problem here is that we dont have the personnel we need for this system? Because I think we all agree, in the normal football universe, an OLB should be able to flex out and cover a TE. That we have Shayon Green and Gilbert out there having to do that, is more a testament to how F*CKEd we are personnel wise. I agree both those guys are more classic 4-3 DEs than they are OLBs. Just like Chick is a 4-3 DE not a 3-4 DE.

To me, what your argument seems to boil down to is that AG and MD f*cked up by moving to this base 3-4 before they had the players they needed to run it.

Even if we had a guy more athletic than Shayon in that same position...like let's say Tyriq McCord...we'd be wasting his talents by having him line up way out there. Regardless of who we have in place of Shayon, we're still out-numbered in the box. This is a schematical flaw, not a talent flaw.

IMO there's no justifying this alignment, regardless of who's lined up out there on defense.

so if they throw the screen and kill us with it for a TD, then what? "why didn't have have someone out there covering so and so"... The real problem is that we should bring a safety down, leave shayon in the box for run purposes, and go with a single high safety (we're so scared of getting beat deep).. I wouldn't feel too terribly about leaving howard on island on occasion.

That said, sometimes our OLBs are going to have to cover a tight end or a receiver, that's not some crazy out of this world thing that D'Onof is doing to get us killed.

I already said we should bring the Safety down and play Cover-3. Maybe you didn't read my other post. You just suggested the same exact thing that I did.

OLB's covering a TE or WR isn't the main issue. There are times when that will happen, but when and where are the key factors.

In this particular instance...

The WHEN is 2nd & short.
The WHERE is middle of the field.

Why do you want your best run defender outside the numbers on 2nd & short, leaving you with only 6 in the box vs. 7 offensive players? Why do that when you can just drop down the Safety and put Shayon inside?

We're not even playing man in this scenario. The guys up top are playing zone coverage, so unless we're playing a combo coverage than Shayon isn't covering the TE, he's covering curl/flats. And if we ARE indeed playing man at the bottom of the screen then D'Onofrio's even dumber than I thought.

 

[TreOFive]

I imagine Bill Belichick or Nick Saban looking at that and laughing their asses off.

Dont even have to be that caliber of coach...All these coaches below caught a major hard-on when they watched our defensive film:

AND YES even

We gave up a whopping 4000+ yds collectively to all these teams...SMH...yeah its talent.

 

[Coach Macho]

If you put McCord in for that kind of situation, I think they run right at him because he is too light in the *** to hold the line.

Run right at him, HOW? He's wayyyy out of the box. You don't even have to. Our DC has taken him out of the run game by alignment.

TE motions back?

Which would serves WHAT purpose? That just brings more defenders in the box. If you leave the TE out there then McCord is out of the play by alignment. He has no chance to make a play.

 

[CANE4LIFE]

So only NFL all-pros like Cam Wake can cover TEs? LBs have coverage responsibilities.

None of this **** is ideal. What does it say about our roster if a guy who "can barely walk" is locking down a spot?


We clearly have issues, but I don't think our coaches are as dumb as you think they are.

No, I used that type of player as an example. There are college players of that mold. Green is not one. Jordan was last year, how's that? Gilbert was that before his injuries, but now he's not. Way to take what I said so literally though and not get the obvious point I was making.

But doesnt this then go to the argument that the problem here is that we dont have the personnel we need for this system? Because I think we all agree, in the normal football universe, an OLB should be able to flex out and cover a TE. That we have Shayon Green and Gilbert out there having to do that, is more a testament to how F*CKEd we are personnel wise. I agree both those guys are more classic 4-3 DEs than they are OLBs. Just like Chick is a 4-3 DE not a 3-4 DE.

To me, what your argument seems to boil down to is that AG and MD f*cked up by moving to this base 3-4 before they had the players they needed to run it.

Even if we had a guy more athletic than Shayon in that same position...like let's say Tyriq McCord...we'd be wasting his talents by having him line up way out there. Regardless of who we have in place of Shayon, we're still out-numbered in the box. This is a schematical flaw, not a talent flaw.

IMO there's no justifying this alignment, regardless of who's lined up out there on defense.

so if they throw the screen and kill us with it for a TD, then what? "why didn't have have someone out there covering so and so"... The real problem is that we should bring a safety down, leave shayon in the box for run purposes, and go with a single high safety (we're so scared of getting beat deep).. I wouldn't feel too terribly about leaving howard on island on occasion.

That said, sometimes our OLBs are going to have to cover a tight end or a receiver, that's not some crazy out of this world thing that D'Onof is doing to get us killed.

This is basically what Im getting at. The real problem here is the constant fear of getting burned deep and having the Safeties too far back. Teams are going to Flex TEs out, they are going to send guys in motion, and sometimes an OLB is going to have to cover, but without safety support, in the box, you are just asking for them to rip you to shreds on the ground. Im not an X an O guru, but it seems rather simple to me. What Wildcat said about being outnumberd in the box is exactly correct. We ALWAYS are, but I dont see that so much as being a problem with having to send an OLB out to cover, so much as we arent bringing a safety down to help in run support when that happens, leaving us totally exposed, and that is how a team like Duke runs for 350 yards.

 

[theibisrules]

**** is embarrassing

 

[Coach Macho]

Here's what I don't understand.

Why are we supposedly "scared of getting burnt deep" when our CB's are the best kids on our defense?

And why can't we go Cover-3 if we're scared?

So we won't bring extra guys in the box cause we're scared of being beat deep but we'll allow teams to run down our throat the whole game?

Lemme tell you something, if I had to choose stopping the run vs. stopping the deep ball I'M STOPPING THE RUN. The deep ball is harder to execute than a running play and our CB's are stout.

 

[DaU83]

No, I used that type of player as an example. There are college players of that mold. Green is not one. Jordan was last year, how's that? Gilbert was that before his injuries, but now he's not. Way to take what I said so literally though and not get the obvious point I was making.

But doesnt this then go to the argument that the problem here is that we dont have the personnel we need for this system? Because I think we all agree, in the normal football universe, an OLB should be able to flex out and cover a TE. That we have Shayon Green and Gilbert out there having to do that, is more a testament to how F*CKEd we are personnel wise. I agree both those guys are more classic 4-3 DEs than they are OLBs. Just like Chick is a 4-3 DE not a 3-4 DE.

To me, what your argument seems to boil down to is that AG and MD f*cked up by moving to this base 3-4 before they had the players they needed to run it.

Even if we had a guy more athletic than Shayon in that same position...like let's say Tyriq McCord...we'd be wasting his talents by having him line up way out there. Regardless of who we have in place of Shayon, we're still out-numbered in the box. This is a schematical flaw, not a talent flaw.

IMO there's no justifying this alignment, regardless of who's lined up out there on defense.

so if they throw the screen and kill us with it for a TD, then what? "why didn't have have someone out there covering so and so"... The real problem is that we should bring a safety down, leave shayon in the box for run purposes, and go with a single high safety (we're so scared of getting beat deep).. I wouldn't feel too terribly about leaving howard on island on occasion.

That said, sometimes our OLBs are going to have to cover a tight end or a receiver, that's not some crazy out of this world thing that D'Onof is doing to get us killed.

I already said we should bring the Safety down and play Cover-3. Maybe you didn't read my other post. You just suggested the same exact thing that I did.

OLB's covering a TE or WR isn't the main issue. There are times when that will happen, but when and where are the key factors.

In this particular instance...

The WHEN is 2nd & short.
The WHERE is middle of the field.

Why do you want your best run defender outside the numbers on 2nd & short, leaving you with only 6 in the box vs. 7 offensive players? Why do that when you can just drop down the Safety and put Shayon inside?

We're not even playing man in this scenario. The guys up top are playing zone coverage, so unless we're playing a combo coverage than Shayon isn't covering the TE, he's covering curl/flats. And if we ARE indeed playing man at the bottom of the screen then D'Onofrio's even dumber than I thought.

i didn't see your other post. And i don't disagree with you about the when and where. But all these people act like it's criminal to throw an OLB out in coverage, or to have an OLB cover a tight end.. that **** happens.

 

[CANE4LIFE]

Here's what I don't understand.

Why are we supposedly "scared of getting burnt deep" when our CB's are the best kids on our defense?

And why can't we go Cover-3 if we're scared?

So we won't bring extra guys in the box cause we're scared of being beat deep but we'll allow teams to run down our throat the whole game?

Lemme tell you something, if I had to choose stopping the run vs. stopping the deep ball I'M STOPPING THE RUN. The deep ball is harder to execute than a running play and our CB's are stout.

I agree, but FWIW, we were stopping the run pretty effectively earlier in the season. Then offenses started to kill us with the short crossing routes, and we seemed to start playing more man, and trying to sell out against the pass to stop it, which is when Duke came in and just ran hog wild on us as we were outmanned in the box almost ever play. Its like Donofrio kept expecting Duke to attack us the same way everyone else had, but Cutcliff was smart enought to realize that we were selling out to stop the pass, and so we gift wrapped him the middle of the field to run to their hearts content.