what was up with this defensive pre-snap alignment?

[CanesAreAble]

Honest question.

How much experience does D'Onofrio have with spread offenses? Did they see alot of spread when they were at Temple?

The MAC tends to be a passing league, so he probably did.

My guess is D'Onofrio will be back, and Golden and he will have to go into the bunker this off-season and figure this **** out. Say what you want about our defensive performances, we didn't look totally inept until the Virginia Tech game.

I guess if the standard you're going to use is "totally inept," fine. We had significant issues that many pointed out prior to that. We're 12th in scoring defense and 14th in total defense within the ACC. Out of 14 teams. You don't get there statistically unless you're nearly everyone's best day.

I agree with the other part of your post and it's something we discussed offline. If I had to bet, D'Ono is going to be here. If I had to bet, they'll sit down, assess their talent for the next year, and hopefully make some hard decisions. Again, guessing here, I don't think we see significant changes. We may see a few wrinkles the same way we do on a game by game basis, but I don't think we see a fundamental change in style. We shall see.

I didn't think our defense was that bad in our first 4 ACC games (GTech, UNC, Wake, FSU). We had some issues, but we were able to get stops, force some turnovers, etc... But the last three games have been a total **** show. The biggest issue I see is the deterioration of the run defense, and a lot of poor communication.

I was checking out an analysis of Saban's defense and came across this:

With an "Under!" call from the right, the LILB cuts the crosser and the RILB zones off. The other 3 receivers are vertical off of the line, so their coverage converts to man.


This looks somewhat similar to some of the plays we had against Virginia Tech where a LB "cut someone loose" in coverage. In this package, it's the responsibility of the Mike to prevent the drag WR from crossing his face. This is not an unreasonable coverage expectation, as some people have suggested.

The problem was the recognition of our LBs (Perryman definitely looked lost on at least one occasion).

That said, it's on the coaches to ensure these communication breakdowns don't happen so frequently.

 

[LuCane]

Honest question.

How much experience does D'Onofrio have with spread offenses? Did they see alot of spread when they were at Temple?

The MAC tends to be a passing league, so he probably did.

My guess is D'Onofrio will be back, and Golden and he will have to go into the bunker this off-season and figure this **** out. Say what you want about our defensive performances, we didn't look totally inept until the Virginia Tech game.

I guess if the standard you're going to use is "totally inept," fine. We had significant issues that many pointed out prior to that. We're 12th in scoring defense and 14th in total defense within the ACC. Out of 14 teams. You don't get there statistically unless you're nearly everyone's best day.

I agree with the other part of your post and it's something we discussed offline. If I had to bet, D'Ono is going to be here. If I had to bet, they'll sit down, assess their talent for the next year, and hopefully make some hard decisions. Again, guessing here, I don't think we see significant changes. We may see a few wrinkles the same way we do on a game by game basis, but I don't think we see a fundamental change in style. We shall see.

I didn't think our defense was that bad in our first 4 ACC games (GTech, UNC, Wake, FSU). We had some issues, but we were able to get stops, force some turnovers, etc... But the last three games have been a total **** show. The biggest issue I see is the deterioration of the run defense, and a lot of poor communication.

I was checking out an analysis of Saban's defense and came across this:

With an "Under!" call from the right, the LILB cuts the crosser and the RILB zones off. The other 3 receivers are vertical off of the line, so their coverage converts to man.


This looks somewhat similar to some of the plays we had against Virginia Tech where a LB "cut someone loose" in coverage. In this package, it's the responsibility of the Mike to prevent the drag WR from crossing his face. This is not an unreasonable coverage expectation, as some people have suggested.

The problem was the recognition of our LBs (Perryman definitely looked lost on at least one occasion).

That said, it's on the coaches to ensure these communication breakdowns don't happen so frequently.

Remember when you posted about Stanford's Defense against Oregon, it being a 3-4, and I answered we didn't look anything like that? Your post is basically about that. I've seen only a handful of times this year where we have a defender anticipate anything. From underneath routes, I remember even less. Is that on the coach or the player? Probably both to some extent, but then ask yourself a couple questions: Do the players operate in an environment where those decisions are encouraged or are they being conditioned to be reactive? Plainly, if you had to take comments from the staff and combine it with what your eyes see, what would be the one metric our defensive players are seemingly judged by? To me, it sounds and looks like it would be "who made the least mental errors."

 

[FullyERicht]

Lu:

If Saban's philosophy is wrong, I don't want to be right.

 

[Coach Macho]

Anyone recognize this? It's the exact formation we saw pictured atop this thread.

And while it may be in our playbook, I found this when reading up on the 3-4 defense of the spread. Who's formation is this?

Nick Saban

The playbook (aka "skeem" or "scheem") is not the problem. The philosophy is not the problem. The teaching, mediocre players, and the 2-gap fronts are the problem. This is good news for us.

Nick Saban is a college football defensive legend/genius bc he was able to take an extensive/complex playbook and translate it so college kids could play it. That is his life's gift. Not his in game "chess" skills. He scrapped the majority of the Okie fronts (2-gap 3-4) in favor of 1-gap or mostly 1-gap fronts. He was at the forefront of pattern matching, and between him, a DB coach, and a DC are able to teach their kids this effective/aggressive/safe technique that is ideal for the college game.

By translating the Belichick/Parcells playbook, he is able to use the brilliant aspects of it but without confusing the players, slowing the players down, or wasting time repping for 2-gap fronts.

We aren't losing the chess match. We are losing in the classroom before the chess match. And even Saban, god-lord of college defense, had to simplify this D.

Look at the alignment of the OLB's and the DE's and tell it's the same thing.

Also, that diagram doesn't tell us what's going on post-snap. That diagram is a standard 3-4 alignment. That's not the same alignment we were in. In that diagram, do you see the OLB head-up on the #2 WR? (no)

 

[Coach Macho]

Honest question.

How much experience does D'Onofrio have with spread offenses? Did they see alot of spread when they were at Temple?

The MAC tends to be a passing league, so he probably did.

My guess is D'Onofrio will be back, and Golden and he will have to go into the bunker this off-season and figure this **** out. Say what you want about our defensive performances, we didn't look totally inept until the Virginia Tech game.

Inept? No. But some of us saw the weaknesses despite the scores.

 

[fivecent]

Isn't the real question, can who we have at SAM run with who they have at Y? And can who we have at M run with their X, and so on,and so on?

 

[Coach Macho]

Isn't the real question, can who we have at SAM run with who they have at Y? And can who we have at M run with their X, and so on,and so on?

Not unless the coverage calls for our Sam to run with their Y.

We're not playing man coverage with our Sam against their Slot WR. Just cause the Sam is lined up near the slot doesn't necessarily mean he's covering him all over the field.

 

[fivecent]

Isn't the real question, can who we have at SAM run with who they have at Y? And can who we have at M run with their X, and so on,and so on?

Not unless the coverage calls for our Sam to run with their Y.

We're not playing man coverage with our Sam against their Slot WR. Just cause the Sam is lined up near the slot doesn't necessarily mean he's covering him all over the field.

My bad, I was going by the "rip" vs "drive" diagram that seemed to indicate he would.

 

[Coach Macho]

Isn't the real question, can who we have at SAM run with who they have at Y? And can who we have at M run with their X, and so on,and so on?

Not unless the coverage calls for our Sam to run with their Y.

We're not playing man coverage with our Sam against their Slot WR. Just cause the Sam is lined up near the slot doesn't necessarily mean he's covering him all over the field.

My bad, I was going by the "rip" vs "drive" diagram that seemed to indicate he would.

Pretty sure we don't run that concept at Miami. It's too creative.

But yeah, if we were to run that concept we would need a Sam backer that can run pretty well. He doesn't have to be in his hip pocket though, he's just gotta be on his trail so the throw has to be lofted over the top, which gives the Safety time to converge on the ball.

 

[FullyERicht]

WCD: our guys weren't shaded, they were straight up. And we showed press man-2. That's it.

I argued early in the thread that we don't actually know what they were shifting into or playing, this isn't new.

 

[LuCane]

Lu:

If Saban's philosophy is wrong, I don't want to be right.

That would assume our philosophy perfectly aligns. You're really oversimplifying this one. As one example, that's what it looks like on paper against a balanced set. What does it look like for Saban when the TE goes in motion to get trips vs what we do? There are tons of questions. Trust what you've seen on the field versus what is theoretically in that book. Theoretically, we might be aligned (though it's hard to say for sure if we're not even digging into their full set of options).

 

[Coach Macho]

WCD: our guys weren't shaded, they were straight up. And we showed press man-2. That's it.

I argued early in the thread that we don't actually know what they were shifting into or playing, this isn't new.

That's press-man at the top of the screen? Who's the OLB pressing exactly? And how is the CB playing press-man when he's clearly taking a zone turn in the picture?

And what exactly does "that's it" mean? The OLB playing press on the #2 WR (the Miami pre-snap pic) vs. playing the apex of #2 and the EMLOS (the recently posted diagram) is a big difference. That's not some minor adjustment.
http://oi41.tinypic.com/2j2w0hv.jpg


Yes, we do know what they were playing. Both Safeties are back pedaling at the snap. The OLB at the top of the screen is blitzing. They're 2-gapping up front. Two reasons I can tell. Their stance and the fact that there's no predetermined C-gap player.

At the bottom of the screen they're playing some type of garbage. It looks like press-man but that would be stupid. First off, you never want two defenders playing press at the same level, specifically when the WR's are bunched together. Second, nobody in their right mind would have Shayon Green playing press-man on ANYBODY. And if we're playing Cover-3 then our alignment sucks. You don't want your flat defender pressed up on #2.

 

[AtrainCane]

Lu:

If Saban's philosophy is wrong, I don't want to be right.

The problem is Saban is a much better TEACHER.....he is better at getting the kids to understand what they should do.

 

[RiDLer80]

Lu:

If Saban's philosophy is wrong, I don't want to be right.

The problem is Saban is a much better TEACHER.....he is better at getting the kids to understand what they should do.

Just because Saban also runs a 3-4 doesn't mean it's the same 3-4 as Golden and D'ono runs. Maybe it's more aggressive, maybe it's simpler, maybe it allows for more freedom. We don't know what his philosophy is compared to what we're running at Miami.

 

[TheMatador]

I think Ables stance is that the coaches aren't so stupid to call such plays if they weren't forced to. Maybe they're not stupid but they're definitely not competent. Its why corches get fired every season. Can't teach the scheme and implement ****ty execution of said scheme. Happens in all sports.

I just don't think they're morons that don't understand basics like gap integrity.

I definitely think they're having difficulty teaching the scheme. That's on them. One of three things is going to happen:

1. Golden's scheme will work
2. Golden will decide to switch schemes
3. Golden's scheme won't work and he'll eventually be fired

well we already know that #1 is out

do we really though? It wasn't so bad their first year when they had better players... last year was terrible, and this year it's slightly improved from last year. And while it hasn't been a quick fix, it did work at temple..

I don't think 2 is a possibility to be honest.

Coaches rarely switch schemes. They go with what they know. They're stubborn. I'd be shocked if Golden started over on defense, and that might be his downfall. They might tell him to fire Dorito, but the program will never survive that. He would not succeed if the administration told him what to do with his staff. Ultimately, it failed for Coker, and will fail for Golden.

 

[TheMatador]

I think Jimmy Johnson had it right. We need simplicity, guys like Green and Gilbert need to be playing with their hands on the ground all the time in a four, and just play an attacking, forcing defense. Make it very simple, and just attack.