what was up with this defensive pre-snap alignment?

[CANE4LIFE]

Just saw the 'Skins have Ryan Kerrigan lined up on Anquan Bolden in the slot. It seemed to confuse Kaepernick, and he called a time out.

What a curious oversimplification of what just happened. The guy audibled, defense checked out, clock was running out and he couldn't change again.

What's curious about it? I wasn't trying to deceive you. I posted what I saw, which looked a lot like what people have been talking about in here. Nothing more, nothing less.

Another thing I'm noticing, following from WildCat's discussion about us always being outnumbered in the box...the SF defense appears to be out-numbered in the box on every play.

A still picture cannot ever diagram what actually is happening, particularly in a 2-gap front with multiple zone coverages behind. This playbook has everything from m2m blitzes, simple zones, simple zone blitzes, to an entire section for fire zones and 0 cover 4-3 under packages. It's extremely complicated. Fault the coaches for their arrogance and not being able to implement it, but they aren't the clueless morons that WCD makes them out to be.

What "playbook" do you keep referring to? Do you mean the defensive scheme in general, or OUR playbook? As in you have seen Donofrio's actual playbook?

And I agree its very complicated, but I also think thats part of the problem. And I dont even think its a matter of arrogance and/or "not being able to teach it", I just think its a very difficult defense to implement, with position coaches who probably dont really know it very well, and players who dont have much background in it, and are mediocre to boot. Its a recipie for disaster.

 

[FullyERicht]

Just saw the 'Skins have Ryan Kerrigan lined up on Anquan Bolden in the slot. It seemed to confuse Kaepernick, and he called a time out.

What a curious oversimplification of what just happened. The guy audibled, defense checked out, clock was running out and he couldn't change again.

What's curious about it? I wasn't trying to deceive you. I posted what I saw, which looked a lot like what people have been talking about in here. Nothing more, nothing less.

Another thing I'm noticing, following from WildCat's discussion about us always being outnumbered in the box...the SF defense appears to be out-numbered in the box on every play.

A still picture cannot ever diagram what actually is happening, particularly in a 2-gap front with multiple zone coverages behind. This playbook has everything from m2m blitzes, simple zones, simple zone blitzes, to an entire section for fire zones and 0 cover 4-3 under packages. It's extremely complicated. Fault the coaches for their arrogance and not being able to implement it, but they aren't the clueless morons that WCD makes them out to be.

What "playbook" do you keep referring to? Do you mean the defensive scheme in general, or OUR playbook? As in you have seen Donofrio's actual playbook?

And I agree its very complicated, but I also think thats part of the problem. And I dont even think its a matter of arrogance and/or "not being able to teach it", I just think its a very difficult defense to implement, with position coaches who probably dont really know it very well, and players who dont have much background in it, and are mediocre to boot. Its a recipie for disaster.

Great post man........the 2004 UVA playbook, AGs defense........its like reading a Physics textbook. I see all the concepts and base coverages we see weekly in there.

 

[RiDLer80]

Just saw the 'Skins have Ryan Kerrigan lined up on Anquan Bolden in the slot. It seemed to confuse Kaepernick, and he called a time out.

What a curious oversimplification of what just happened. The guy audibled, defense checked out, clock was running out and he couldn't change again.

What's curious about it? I wasn't trying to deceive you. I posted what I saw, which looked a lot like what people have been talking about in here. Nothing more, nothing less.

Another thing I'm noticing, following from WildCat's discussion about us always being outnumbered in the box...the SF defense appears to be out-numbered in the box on every play.

Also on that look, Merriweather walked down into the box as Kerrigan walked out over Boldin.

 

[LuCane]

Just saw the 'Skins have Ryan Kerrigan lined up on Anquan Bolden in the slot. It seemed to confuse Kaepernick, and he called a time out.

What a curious oversimplification of what just happened. The guy audibled, defense checked out, clock was running out and he couldn't change again.

What's curious about it? I wasn't trying to deceive you. I posted what I saw, which looked a lot like what people have been talking about in here. Nothing more, nothing less.

Another thing I'm noticing, following from WildCat's discussion about us always being outnumbered in the box...the SF defense appears to be out-numbered in the box on every play.

It was curious because you left out a lot of information that led to the result you noted.

The 49ers are able to 2-gap far more effectively than I'd ever expect of a college DL. They also disguise their coverages better than we ever have or probably can. Basically, the comparison of what NFL teams do versus what we can or should do isn't a very good starting point.

 

[Big Sky Cane]

WCD, if you'd bothered to do your research instead of had this arrogant "well i could do better" attitude, you wouldn't have made the absurd statement that we "don't pattern read".

I don't care to do research. I believe my eyes. I watch our LB's stare at the QB so a long time ago I asked if we were spot dropping. I continued to see our LB's stare at the QB every week so that leads me to believe that 1) Our LB's spot drop or 2) We don't teach pattern matching very well cause we haven't mastered it in 3 years.

And stay on topic chief. Stop trying to attack me personally.

Just watched a Redskins LB watch Kapernicks eyes, react, and **** near (should have) picked him off. Skins must be spot droppin'.

 

[sebastian91]

Just saw the 'Skins have Ryan Kerrigan lined up on Anquan Bolden in the slot. It seemed to confuse Kaepernick, and he called a time out.

What a curious oversimplification of what just happened. The guy audibled, defense checked out, clock was running out and he couldn't change again.

What's curious about it? I wasn't trying to deceive you. I posted what I saw, which looked a lot like what people have been talking about in here. Nothing more, nothing less.

Another thing I'm noticing, following from WildCat's discussion about us always being outnumbered in the box...the SF defense appears to be out-numbered in the box on every play.

It was curious because you left out a lot of information that led to the result you noted.

The 49ers are able to 2-gap far more effectively than I'd ever expect of a college DL. They also disguise their coverages better than we ever have or probably can. Basically, the comparison of what NFL teams do versus what we can or should do isn't a very good starting point.

I don't know why you've got all rustled jimmies about this. I'm not comparing anything, or suggesting anything. I made observations that I perceived to be related to the conversation here. That's it. There's no ulterior motive, yet you seem to be intent on finding one. Considering that you got all worked up about apparent "poison to discussion", I find your over-reaction to my observations somewhat curious...

 

[LuCane]

Just saw the 'Skins have Ryan Kerrigan lined up on Anquan Bolden in the slot. It seemed to confuse Kaepernick, and he called a time out.

What a curious oversimplification of what just happened. The guy audibled, defense checked out, clock was running out and he couldn't change again.

What's curious about it? I wasn't trying to deceive you. I posted what I saw, which looked a lot like what people have been talking about in here. Nothing more, nothing less.

Another thing I'm noticing, following from WildCat's discussion about us always being outnumbered in the box...the SF defense appears to be out-numbered in the box on every play.

It was curious because you left out a lot of information that led to the result you noted.

The 49ers are able to 2-gap far more effectively than I'd ever expect of a college DL. They also disguise their coverages better than we ever have or probably can. Basically, the comparison of what NFL teams do versus what we can or should do isn't a very good starting point.

I don't know why you've got all rustled jimmies about this. I'm not comparing anything, or suggesting anything. I made observations that I perceived to be related to the conversation here. That's it. There's no ulterior motive, yet you seem to be intent on finding one. Considering that you got all worked up about apparent "poison to discussion", I find your over-reaction to my observations somewhat curious...

Seems like a projection re: rustled jimmies. You just mentioned it three times. Got it. On my original response, I simply filled in what you left out. Seemed curious because you're a seemingly smart guy. The 49ers actually just did it again to the point the announcers mentioned they have a tendency to trick themselves with their formations, alignments and call changes. Next point.

 

[sebastian91]

What a curious oversimplification of what just happened. The guy audibled, defense checked out, clock was running out and he couldn't change again.

What's curious about it? I wasn't trying to deceive you. I posted what I saw, which looked a lot like what people have been talking about in here. Nothing more, nothing less.

Another thing I'm noticing, following from WildCat's discussion about us always being outnumbered in the box...the SF defense appears to be out-numbered in the box on every play.

It was curious because you left out a lot of information that led to the result you noted.

The 49ers are able to 2-gap far more effectively than I'd ever expect of a college DL. They also disguise their coverages better than we ever have or probably can. Basically, the comparison of what NFL teams do versus what we can or should do isn't a very good starting point.

I don't know why you've got all rustled jimmies about this. I'm not comparing anything, or suggesting anything. I made observations that I perceived to be related to the conversation here. That's it. There's no ulterior motive, yet you seem to be intent on finding one. Considering that you got all worked up about apparent "poison to discussion", I find your over-reaction to my observations somewhat curious...

Seems like a projection re: rustled jimmies. You just mentioned it three times. Got it. On my original response, I simply filled in what you left out. Seemed curious because you're a seemingly smart guy. The 49ers actually just did it again to the point the announcers mentioned they have a tendency to trick themselves with their formations, alignments and call changes. Next point.

Righty-O, Chief. Onward to productive discussion, guysm!

 

[LuCane]

What's curious about it? I wasn't trying to deceive you. I posted what I saw, which looked a lot like what people have been talking about in here. Nothing more, nothing less.

Another thing I'm noticing, following from WildCat's discussion about us always being outnumbered in the box...the SF defense appears to be out-numbered in the box on every play.

It was curious because you left out a lot of information that led to the result you noted.

The 49ers are able to 2-gap far more effectively than I'd ever expect of a college DL. They also disguise their coverages better than we ever have or probably can. Basically, the comparison of what NFL teams do versus what we can or should do isn't a very good starting point.

I don't know why you've got all rustled jimmies about this. I'm not comparing anything, or suggesting anything. I made observations that I perceived to be related to the conversation here. That's it. There's no ulterior motive, yet you seem to be intent on finding one. Considering that you got all worked up about apparent "poison to discussion", I find your over-reaction to my observations somewhat curious...

Seems like a projection re: rustled jimmies. You just mentioned it three times. Got it. On my original response, I simply filled in what you left out. Seemed curious because you're a seemingly smart guy. The 49ers actually just did it again to the point the announcers mentioned they have a tendency to trick themselves with their formations, alignments and call changes. Next point.

Righty-O, Chief. Onward to productive discussion, guysm!

Funny. Your posts are as passive aggressive as our defense.

 

[sebastian91]

It was curious because you left out a lot of information that led to the result you noted.

The 49ers are able to 2-gap far more effectively than I'd ever expect of a college DL. They also disguise their coverages better than we ever have or probably can. Basically, the comparison of what NFL teams do versus what we can or should do isn't a very good starting point.

I don't know why you've got all rustled jimmies about this. I'm not comparing anything, or suggesting anything. I made observations that I perceived to be related to the conversation here. That's it. There's no ulterior motive, yet you seem to be intent on finding one. Considering that you got all worked up about apparent "poison to discussion", I find your over-reaction to my observations somewhat curious...

Seems like a projection re: rustled jimmies. You just mentioned it three times. Got it. On my original response, I simply filled in what you left out. Seemed curious because you're a seemingly smart guy. The 49ers actually just did it again to the point the announcers mentioned they have a tendency to trick themselves with their formations, alignments and call changes. Next point.

Righty-O, Chief. Onward to productive discussion, guysm!

Funny. Your posts are as passive aggressive as our defense.

Then don't read them. Simple solution.

 

[LuCane]

I get some entertainment out of 'em, so I'll continue to read them for now.

 

[sebastian91]

I get some entertainment out of 'em, so I'll continue to read them for now.

Awesome.

 

[NVA CANE]

WCD, if you'd bothered to do your research instead of had this arrogant "well i could do better" attitude, you wouldn't have made the absurd statement that we "don't pattern read".

I don't care to do research. I believe my eyes. I watch our LB's stare at the QB so a long time ago I asked if we were spot dropping. I continued to see our LB's stare at the QB every week so that leads me to believe that 1) Our LB's spot drop or 2) We don't teach pattern matching very well cause we haven't mastered it in 3 years.

And stay on topic chief. Stop trying to attack me personally.

Just watched a Redskins LB watch Kapernicks eyes, react, and **** near (should have) picked him off. Skins must be spot droppin'.

Redskins defense is terrible this year.

 

[Coach Macho]

Honest question.

How much experience does D'Onofrio have with spread offenses? Did they see alot of spread when they were at Temple?

Reason I ask is because we seem to do fine against 21 personnel but struggle the most when teams spread us out. We're completely lost. Guys wide open, running seams all over, can't defend read-option, etc etc etc.

Could it be possible that Golden and D'Onofrio are prehistoric in their ways and can't adjust to the spread principles?

 

[FullyERicht]

Honest question.

How much experience does D'Onofrio have with spread offenses? Did they see alot of spread when they were at Temple?

Reason I ask is because we seem to do fine against 21 personnel but struggle the most when teams spread us out. We're completely lost. Guys wide open, running seams all over, can't defend read-option, etc etc etc.

Could it be possible that Golden and D'Onofrio are prehistoric in their ways and can't adjust to the spread principles?

If by prehistoric you mean overly conservative, then yes.

They want to have it all, and safely. They want to be well covered over the top with two and three deep, with 5 or six underneath zones, while also having all the gaps accounted for with their DL. the result is no pressure and long methodical drives that either end in TDs or mistakes for the offense.

 

[Coach Macho]

Honest question.

How much experience does D'Onofrio have with spread offenses? Did they see alot of spread when they were at Temple?

Reason I ask is because we seem to do fine against 21 personnel but struggle the most when teams spread us out. We're completely lost. Guys wide open, running seams all over, can't defend read-option, etc etc etc.

Could it be possible that Golden and D'Onofrio are prehistoric in their ways and can't adjust to the spread principles?

If by prehistoric you mean overly conservative, then yes.

They want to have it all, and safely. They want to be well covered over the top with two and three deep, with 5 or six underneath zones, while also having all the gaps accounted for with their DL. the result is no pressure and long methodical drives that either end in TDs or mistakes for the offense.

I get that, but you can be aggressive and still have all those things covered.

 

[FullyERicht]

Anyone recognize this? It's the exact formation we saw pictured atop this thread.

And while it may be in our playbook, I found this when reading up on the 3-4 defense of the spread. Who's formation is this?

Nick Saban

The playbook (aka "skeem" or "scheem") is not the problem. The philosophy is not the problem. The teaching, mediocre players, and the 2-gap fronts are the problem. This is good news for us.

Nick Saban is a college football defensive legend/genius bc he was able to take an extensive/complex playbook and translate it so college kids could play it. That is his life's gift. Not his in game "chess" skills. He scrapped the majority of the Okie fronts (2-gap 3-4) in favor of 1-gap or mostly 1-gap fronts. He was at the forefront of pattern matching, and between him, a DB coach, and a DC are able to teach their kids this effective/aggressive/safe technique that is ideal for the college game.

By translating the Belichick/Parcells playbook, he is able to use the brilliant aspects of it but without confusing the players, slowing the players down, or wasting time repping for 2-gap fronts.

We aren't losing the chess match. We are losing in the classroom before the chess match. And even Saban, god-lord of college defense, had to simplify this D.

 

[CanesAreAble]

Honest question.

How much experience does D'Onofrio have with spread offenses? Did they see alot of spread when they were at Temple?

The MAC tends to be a passing league, so he probably did.

My guess is D'Onofrio will be back, and Golden and he will have to go into the bunker this off-season and figure this **** out. Say what you want about our defensive performances, we didn't look totally inept until the Virginia Tech game.

 

[LuCane]

Anyone recognize this? It's the exact formation we saw pictured atop this thread.

And while it may be in our playbook, I found this when reading up on the 3-4 defense of the spread. Who's formation is this?

Nick Saban

The playbook (aka "skeem" or "scheem") is not the problem. The philosophy is not the problem. The teaching, mediocre players, and the 2-gap fronts are the problem. This is good news for us.

Nick Saban is a college football defensive legend/genius bc he was able to take an extensive/complex playbook and translate it so college kids could play it. That is his life's gift. Not his in game "chess" skills. He scrapped the majority of the Okie fronts (2-gap 3-4) in favor of 1-gap or mostly 1-gap fronts. He was at the forefront of pattern matching, and between him, a DB coach, and a DC are able to teach their kids this effective/aggressive/safe technique that is ideal for the college game.

By translating the Belichick/Parcells playbook, he is able to use the brilliant aspects of it but without confusing the players, slowing the players down, or wasting time repping for 2-gap fronts.

We aren't losing the chess match. We are losing in the classroom before the chess match. And even Saban, god-lord of college defense, had to simplify this D.

That's where you and I are going to disagree. The things you mention that add up to "the problem" flow directly out of a philosophy of risk aversion (at least defensively).

 

[LuCane]

Honest question.

How much experience does D'Onofrio have with spread offenses? Did they see alot of spread when they were at Temple?

The MAC tends to be a passing league, so he probably did.

My guess is D'Onofrio will be back, and Golden and he will have to go into the bunker this off-season and figure this **** out. Say what you want about our defensive performances, we didn't look totally inept until the Virginia Tech game.

I guess if the standard you're going to use is "totally inept," fine. We had significant issues that many pointed out prior to that. We're 12th in scoring defense and 14th in total defense within the ACC. Out of 14 teams. You don't get there statistically unless you're nearly everyone's best day.

I agree with the other part of your post and it's something we discussed offline. If I had to bet, D'Ono is going to be here. If I had to bet, they'll sit down, assess their talent for the next year, and hopefully make some hard decisions. Again, guessing here, I don't think we see significant changes. We may see a few wrinkles the same way we do on a game by game basis, but I don't think we see a fundamental change in style. We shall see.