True or untrue: Virginia Tech is in better shape than Miami as a program

[JD08]

I made the argument that UVA’s program is in better shape than ours and was accused of being a troll.

I think you’re trolling for real.

Rok's got 8 years of solid posting under his belt and he personally seeded Greentree. You've got less than two weeks and have been abrasive since day one.

 

[rok]

Then why waste your time on Canes board? You cleary don’t like the canes. They sucks there is a negative spin on everything. Do yourself a favor and spent your non-refundable minutes on something will actually bring you joy.

I'm here to read about and discuss our favorite team. It isn't my fault that our favorite team happens to stink. Why are you here?

 

[rok]

They are both equally bad and have similar coaches thing is VT is in a longer tenure with Fuente so he has his unathletic athletes already in the system. Year three or four under Manny u will see unathletic Miami teams for the first time in ages, in spots we will have guys but it will be epic bad. I would say VT is worse right now but we aren’t trailing that far we are two years behind them.

Diaz is an extension of Richt's tenure until tangible changes and results begin to materialize. So because of that I'd argue that Diaz and Fuentes are on about the same timeline. It may not be fair but that's the price for hiring a coordinator from a failed regime.

 

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

This is Vag Tech’s best all-time coach.

In the past, they’ve been better than us for short stretches...even when Botch was coach. But overall, no, they’ll never be our equals. Ever.

Lock thread.

 

[rok]

Here's the thing....

I'm not an if's and but's guy....you are who you are, and the games we lost, we lost. No excuses. The CMU game was a travesty. No excuses.

But take a step back for just a second. Let's play a hypothetical (which I know we don't do in this black and white world, but humor me for 30 seconds of your life).

On 8/24, with 1 minute left in the game, Miami had a 2nd and 10 on the UF 24 yard line. How bout Williams steps up in the pocket, throws a strike, and Miami wins. Literally 1 play. And not a hail mary, not a 12 lateral return (I see you, Corn). Just 1 normal football play.

2 weeks later, Miami has UNC facing a 4th and 17. Howell drops back, fires a pass, Trajan Bandy sinks in coverage and knocks it away. Miami wins. Literally 1 play. And not a hail mary, not a 12 lateral return (I still see you, Corn). Just 1 normal football play.

Miami is 2-0, they stomp Bethune, then lay the egg against CMU. Wow, that was ugly, but we won. 4-0 baby. I ABSOLUTELYGUARAN****INGTEE all of you that there would be no culture problems. There would be no fire Manny threads. There would be no fire Enos threads. We would not be nitpicking every sentence a coach says in a press conference he's required to do when he'd rather be doing literally anything else. ALL of you would be walking around with your Miami t-shirts, sticking your chest out, talking smack to all your FSU and UF homeboys, making Manny memes, tweeting #TNM every **** day....all that happy horsechit.

But instead, Jarren gets sacked on 8/24 (one football play), UNC picks up the 4th and 17 (one football play), and we've got posters on here saying "fold the program". How does that make any sense at all? NOBODY is happy with where the program is right now. We DID lose those games, and that's unacceptable. So I'm not saying that everything should be rainbows and lollipops, but give me a break with the tear down the program after 4 games nonsense. NONE of you know how this thing is going to play out. And if it does play out how many of you sorry asses really want it to, and Manny fails, you DID NOT know it was going to happen.

So yes, we didn't win, and we're ****ed. But spare me the "every program is better than Miami", and we have a culture problem, and we'll never win another game, and we should fold the program, and all that shortsighted, reactionary, female nonsense. Be ****ed, sure, but have some **** perspective. And for the love of Christ, stop ******* crying about every single thing.

You're part of the problem imo. The only hope for this program is a full-fledged revolt. The wait-and-see crowd has been wrong every time so SPARE ME with this attempt at trying to restore order. Cmar is rolling in his grave right now.

 

[ItsAUThing.com]

You don't think it's a relevant debate?

Not relevant at all. Who cares about VT as a program? They're just another divisional road block Miami has to get past.

The Hokies overachieved for years under Beamer and that mojo started wearing off years before he retired. Fuente was hired as up-and-comer type; their first new head coach since the mid-80s.

Neither Miami as a private school, or Virginia Tech—an average program by all accounts (without bigger resources are other schools in their region have).

All that to say, Miami has a better chance at survival and relevancy in this era, opposed to Virginia Tech—as South Florida talent and the overall brand are better than what the ol' VPI has to offer.

Beamer gave Virginia Tech an advantage over Miami in the post Butch Davis-era—but now that he's gone and both programs have new guys trying to prove themselves, the Canes definitely have a leg up on today's Hokies.

Fuente will also lose Bud Foster after this year, which will be a change for that defense and take a little time to get right, as well.

 

[For_The_U]

Here's the thing....

I'm not an if's and but's guy....you are who you are, and the games we lost, we lost. No excuses. The CMU game was a travesty. No excuses.

But take a step back for just a second. Let's play a hypothetical (which I know we don't do in this black and white world, but humor me for 30 seconds of your life).

On 8/24, with 1 minute left in the game, Miami had a 2nd and 10 on the UF 24 yard line. How bout Williams steps up in the pocket, throws a strike, and Miami wins. Literally 1 play. And not a hail mary, not a 12 lateral return (I see you, Corn). Just 1 normal football play.

2 weeks later, Miami has UNC facing a 4th and 17. Howell drops back, fires a pass, Trajan Bandy sinks in coverage and knocks it away. Miami wins. Literally 1 play. And not a hail mary, not a 12 lateral return (I still see you, Corn). Just 1 normal football play.

Miami is 2-0, they stomp Bethune, then lay the egg against CMU. Wow, that was ugly, but we won. 4-0 baby. I ABSOLUTELYGUARAN****INGTEE all of you that there would be no culture problems. There would be no fire Manny threads. There would be no fire Enos threads. We would not be nitpicking every sentence a coach says in a press conference he's required to do when he'd rather be doing literally anything else. ALL of you would be walking around with your Miami t-shirts, sticking your chest out, talking smack to all your FSU and UF homeboys, making Manny memes, tweeting #TNM every **** day....all that happy horsechit.

But instead, Jarren gets sacked on 8/24 (one football play), UNC picks up the 4th and 17 (one football play), and we've got posters on here saying "fold the program". How does that make any sense at all? NOBODY is happy with where the program is right now. We DID lose those games, and that's unacceptable. So I'm not saying that everything should be rainbows and lollipops, but give me a break with the tear down the program after 4 games nonsense. NONE of you know how this thing is going to play out. And if it does play out how many of you sorry asses really want it to, and Manny fails, you DID NOT know it was going to happen.

So yes, we didn't win, and we're ****ed. But spare me the "every program is better than Miami", and we have a culture problem, and we'll never win another game, and we should fold the program, and all that shortsighted, reactionary, female nonsense. Be ****ed, sure, but have some **** perspective. And for the love of Christ, stop ******* crying about every single thing.

Here's the thing....

I'm not an if's and but's guy....you are who you are, and the games we lost, we lost. No excuses. The CMU game was a travesty. No excuses.

But take a step back for just a second. Let's play a hypothetical (which I know we don't do in this black and white world, but humor me for 30 seconds of your life).

On 8/24, with 1 minute left in the game, Miami had a 2nd and 10 on the UF 24 yard line. How bout Williams steps up in the pocket, throws a strike, and Miami wins. Literally 1 play. And not a hail mary, not a 12 lateral return (I see you, Corn). Just 1 normal football play.

2 weeks later, Miami has UNC facing a 4th and 17. Howell drops back, fires a pass, Trajan Bandy sinks in coverage and knocks it away. Miami wins. Literally 1 play. And not a hail mary, not a 12 lateral return (I still see you, Corn). Just 1 normal football play.

Miami is 2-0, they stomp Bethune, then lay the egg against CMU. Wow, that was ugly, but we won. 4-0 baby. I ABSOLUTELYGUARAN****INGTEE all of you that there would be no culture problems. There would be no fire Manny threads. There would be no fire Enos threads. We would not be nitpicking every sentence a coach says in a press conference he's required to do when he'd rather be doing literally anything else. ALL of you would be walking around with your Miami t-shirts, sticking your chest out, talking smack to all your FSU and UF homeboys, making Manny memes, tweeting #TNM every **** day....all that happy horsechit.

But instead, Jarren gets sacked on 8/24 (one football play), UNC picks up the 4th and 17 (one football play), and we've got posters on here saying "fold the program". How does that make any sense at all? NOBODY is happy with where the program is right now. We DID lose those games, and that's unacceptable. So I'm not saying that everything should be rainbows and lollipops, but give me a break with the tear down the program after 4 games nonsense. NONE of you know how this thing is going to play out. And if it does play out how many of you sorry asses really want it to, and Manny fails, you DID NOT know it was going to happen.

So yes, we didn't win, and we're ****ed. But spare me the "every program is better than Miami", and we have a culture problem, and we'll never win another game, and we should fold the program, and all that shortsighted, reactionary, female nonsense. Be ****ed, sure, but have some **** perspective. And for the love of Christ, stop ******* crying about every single thing.

Here here, brother! Very well said.

 

[Home Slice]

VT 10-10
Miami (Fla.) 9-11

Push

 

[BS85]

 

[rok]

No. When we have 12 dudes jump into the portal at the same time, like they did, then maybe we can revisit this.

I'd bet they have more players on scholarship than we currently do.

 

[streetja]

True or untrue: Drevlee is a better poster than OP?

 

[For_The_U]

You're part of the problem imo. The only hope for this program is a full-fledged revolt. The wait-and-see crowd has been wrong every time so SPARE ME with this attempt at trying to restore order. Cmar is rolling in his grave right now.

He is "part of the problem" because he doesn't desire to come on here and b-tch and complain every day like he has his period?

 

[South Side Chi Cane]

I know one thing, these VT ***** are gonna come out fired up. No fuerte is looking to save his job and their is no better game to start that with then this one. This is also a rivalry game and we all know what comes with that. We had better play like we mean it.

 

[rok]

He is "part of the problem" because he doesn't desire to come on here and b-tch and complain every day like he has his period?

Pretty much, yes. I'm uplifted by the level of anger here so far in 2019 but these hypothetical tear-jerker posts do more harm than good.

As a fan base we should be 100% at the end of our rope. And even though we're 'a play or two from being 4-0', we're also a play or two from being 1-3 with that third loss COMING AT HOME AGAINST THE CENTRAL MICHIGAN CHEWBACCAS

 

[Go Canes!!]

You're part of the problem imo. The only hope for this program is a full-fledged revolt. The wait-and-see crowd has been wrong every time so SPARE ME with this attempt at trying to restore order. Cmar is rolling in his grave right now.

Now do Butch Davis and Jimmy Johnson.

 

[ItsAUThing.com]

Here's the thing....

I'm not an if's and but's guy....you are who you are, and the games we lost, we lost. No excuses. The CMU game was a travesty. No excuses.

But take a step back for just a second. Let's play a hypothetical (which I know we don't do in this black and white world, but humor me for 30 seconds of your life).

On 8/24, with 1 minute left in the game, Miami had a 2nd and 10 on the UF 24 yard line. How bout Williams steps up in the pocket, throws a strike, and Miami wins. Literally 1 play. And not a hail mary, not a 12 lateral return (I see you, Corn). Just 1 normal football play.

2 weeks later, Miami has UNC facing a 4th and 17. Howell drops back, fires a pass, Trajan Bandy sinks in coverage and knocks it away. Miami wins. Literally 1 play. And not a hail mary, not a 12 lateral return (I still see you, Corn). Just 1 normal football play.

Miami is 2-0, they stomp Bethune, then lay the egg against CMU. Wow, that was ugly, but we won. 4-0 baby. I ABSOLUTELYGUARAN****INGTEE all of you that there would be no culture problems. There would be no fire Manny threads. There would be no fire Enos threads. We would not be nitpicking every sentence a coach says in a press conference he's required to do when he'd rather be doing literally anything else. ALL of you would be walking around with your Miami t-shirts, sticking your chest out, talking smack to all your FSU and UF homeboys, making Manny memes, tweeting #TNM every **** day....all that happy horsechit.

But instead, Jarren gets sacked on 8/24 (one football play), UNC picks up the 4th and 17 (one football play), and we've got posters on here saying "fold the program". How does that make any sense at all? NOBODY is happy with where the program is right now. We DID lose those games, and that's unacceptable. So I'm not saying that everything should be rainbows and lollipops, but give me a break with the tear down the program after 4 games nonsense. NONE of you know how this thing is going to play out. And if it does play out how many of you sorry asses really want it to, and Manny fails, you DID NOT know it was going to happen.

So yes, we didn't win, and we're ****ed. But spare me the "every program is better than Miami", and we have a culture problem, and we'll never win another game, and we should fold the program, and all that shortsighted, reactionary, female nonsense. Be ****ed, sure, but have some **** perspective. And for the love of Christ, stop ******* crying about every single thing.

^^^COULD NOT AGREE WITH THIS MORE.

I've written about this several times at ItsAUThing over the past few weeks.

Two plays away from undefeated—looking light years better than it did last December when Wisconsin pushed lifeless Miami up and down the field.

Win those two games and these same people are screaming about going undefeated and taking out Clemson—despite all the glaring weaknesses that the team still has regarding youth at some positions and a two-deep that is nowhere near contender level. Lose those two last minute on a play or two and it's "Cuban Al Golden" and "stick a fork in this program". The overemotional nature—swinging from "we're done" to "we're back" is embarrassingly short-sighted, over-emotional and immature.

"The New Miami" wasn't some off-season, insta-fix—yet many thought that the attitude could be changed over a few months and expected the Canes to roll the Gators. Instead, it's a long-term culture change that Diaz is working towards—from how these kids will play on the field (in due time) as well as the type of kid he's working to recruit to Miami; the guys like those late nineties players who wanted to be part of the foundation and comeback, living and dying for the Canes—opposed to divas who want to win immediately and run off to Tuscaloosa or Athens so they can plug-and-play for an immediate contender (lots of guys who grew up pulling for Miami but don't have the grit to be part of the rebuild.)

Thankfully Diaz has a better handle on it than the fans—constantly pointing out the strengths and the areas of deficiency, and how they're getting worked on. There can be more good taken from a close loss with a few mistakes than there is a win against a Bethune-Cookman where the team strutted out of that game big-headed like they'd just done something special.

A large part of this fan base has lost their mind; sick of being irrelevant for 15 years, while lumping all that failure on yet another new coach—Miami's FIFTH new head coach in 14 seasons—and judging things game-by-game, or even drive-by-drive. It's asinine. Logic and reason have gone WAY out the window.

Wrote about it here as well, if you're interested—"Early Deep Dive Into The Manny Diaz Era & Meaning Of 'The New Miami'"

Side note; would've loved to see how these nut jobs reacted in 1984 if there was social media when JJ went 8-5 with the defending national champs—including losing the final three in shocking fashion; blowing a 31-0 half-time lead to Maryland, losing to Boston College on Hail Flutie and dropping a shootout to UCLA in the Fiesta Bowl. They'd have burned Hecth down and demanded that Tom Olivadotti take over as head coach, believing he deserved the job over Johnson in the first place, as the DC on Schnelly' staff.

 

[fllcane]

Fuente isn't going anywhere. His contract has a 15M buy out and I highly doubt VT has/wants to spend that money to buy him out (when I went there they were cheap as ****). Following behind Frank Beamer is tough (like most really successful coaches). Tech is a tough sell to recruits, and I don't think Fuente meshes well with the type of player they get at Tech (in some ways I feel he has lost the team). So I don't expect things will improve much for him.

In as far as UM is concerned, hey look this is Manny's first time as a head coach (which I think was a mistake by Blake to hire him). So he is doing a lot of OJT (and making a ton of mistakes). Will he improve and become a good/great head coach? Don't know - time will tell. There a lot of DCs & OCs that move up and in the end don't make it (if he fails UM will be 1 for 4 with Butch being the only one to make the transition). But to judge him 4 games in is a bit premature. Let us not forget what a clusterf_ck UM was in Butches first 2 years. His sidelines reminded me of when The Who tried open seating at their concerts - absolute kaos! I am hoping the poor clock management, the team coming out flat, ugly undisciplined penalties, little to no game adjustments (which I have always felt was one of Manny's strengths), etc will get cleaned up. That by the end of the year, win or loose, we don't keep shooting ourselves in the foot. But to compare the two programs at this point seems premature. Just my 2 cents...

 

[rok]

Now do Butch Davis and Jimmy Johnson.

I hear you but those examples don't really count. The university has been extremely overt about their stance on football since Shalala. They prefer going 7-5 every year while that ACC money keeps rolling in regardless. Blake James is here to stay as long as Miami fans keep telling the school that we're fine with the status quo by staying positive, purchasing season tickets, etc. It's in our power to call for change but if you wanna make an omelette you gotta crack some eggs. "Real Canes fans" are running out of patience. The more casual fan will continue to hold out hope in the fairy tale of being unconditionally supportive until one day, perhaps 74 years from now, Miami might once again make its triumphant return to relevance.

 

[For_The_U]

Pretty much, yes. I'm uplifted by the level of anger here so far in 2019 but these hypothetical tear-jerker posts do more harm than good.

As a fan base we should be 100% at the end of our rope. And even though we're 'a play or two from being 4-0', we're also a play or two from being 1-3 with that third loss COMING AT HOME AGAINST THE CENTRAL MICHIGAN CHEWBACCAS

I respectfully disagree that we should be at "the end of our rope" with Manny Diaz four games into his first season as head coach.

 

[Empirical Cane]

very hard to say.

what can be said with certainty though is that both program's fanbase are very disappointed going on several years now.