Tell me why Wisconsin, Michigan, and UNC...

Very familiar. Threads like this are exceptionally popular on fan sites, as opposed to wagering oriented sites where the mathematical aspect is better understood.

Wisconsin, Michigan and North Carolina were all favored by 6 points or more 9 times last season, per the consensus closing line. Contrast to the 2015 Canes, who were favored by 6+ only 4 times. Right now the over/under on the 2016 Canes would be 5 games favored by 6+.

Again, it's not all that complicated. In our best recent season -- 2013 -- we won 9 games while being favored by 6+ in 8 games. Believe it or not, those season win over/unders are not a wild subjective stab, an impression they hey the 2016 Miami Hurricanes seem like a 7.5 team so let's hang that number. Pointspread projections are made of every game, and the associated money lines attached. Those money lines when applied to the appropriate formula spit out the logical season win forecast. In 2013 with a favorable schedule and a relatively high power rating we were projected to be considerable favorite quite often, hence our season win over/under was initially 9.5, although it was bet down to 9 in some spots in late August.

Wisconsin in 2015 didn't do anything remarkable. Their season win over/under (regular season only) opened at 10 despite being a double digit underdog in the opener against Alabama. Some spots were bet down to 9.5 late. North Carolina was 8 while Michigan was 7.5 then bet up to 8 at many joints in the late weeks.

When I first was hired as sportsbook supervisor in 1989 but didn't know much about the applicable math toward those season win totals and future book odds, one of the chief oddsmakers pulled me aside and tutored. It was really an eye opener. His first advice on football was to look at those games in which a team was projected to be favored by a touchdown. Those games, he explained carried roughly -250 win expectancy, or theoretically 5 chances in 7. Once it reaches that level there begins to be some substantial advantage, as opposed to 3 or 4 point spreads. Besides, he said, the games with a touchdown projected spread in preseason are more likely to reach double digits at actual gametime than they were to reverse favoritism at gametime. None of this is linear. The advantage swells upward as the pointspread increases.

BTW, NFL favorites win more dependably than college favorites, so those NFL money lines are higher at the same spread than college favorites. Basketball favorites win more dependably than football chalk so those basketball money line charts are higher than football charts. Regardless, the money line fits very well at each pointspread. Plug and play. If you evaluate hundreds or thousands of results at each spread and in each sport as a block, you'll see that the favorite won the game almost exactly as often as the money line predicted they would. That in itself shoots down the laughably ignorant notion that the pointspread is not a prediction of the outcome, but merely serves to balance the action. I always have to chuckle at geniuses who supply that line. Power ratings and home field provide the spread. The spread points to the money line. The money line provides win likelihood. And a scatter plot of results in relation to the spread reveals normal and logical distribution over time.

The 2016 Canes can certainly win 10 games. But it will require our power rating shooting up a full touchdown or more during the course of the season, like Michigan's did last year. Otherwise we are relying on outliers and upsets and coin flips. Only knuckleheads rely on outliers and upsets and coin flips. That was one of the jolts I received upon joining message boards in the late '90s. I had no idea that despicable cats were so popular, and I had no idea outliers were so prized. In my Las Vegas sportsbook environment sure you hear about outliers but the people touting them have to grasp and announce the 8/1 burden, or 15/1 burden, or 30/1 burden, or whatever. Otherwise they will be laughed of the stage, and rightfully so.

Somehow on message boards, particularly sports message boards, it is popular and accepted to try to deflect a pronouncement via use of an outlier example. One relatively meaningless exception and the poster somehow believes the point has been diffused, that the 90%+ foundation holds no worth. Hilarious. But I've learned to accept it. It goes on everywhere, not merely here. Those posters know there is a market for the high decibel outliers, just like certain political authors know they can lap up SAM sales and SAM acclaim via use of blunt titles like "Outrage" and "Slander."

The ACC Coastal is unusually condensed. That's one of our hurdles toward 10 wins or nearby. The power ratings of every team in that division are within 10 points of each other entering 2016. North Carolina tops the Sagarin numbers at 81 then it drops no lower than 71. You won't find congestion like that in any other conference or division. It's the reason the 2016 Canes can't rely on normalcy...wonderful normalcy...as opposed to outliers and upsets and coin flips. Richt's job -- now and more likely toward future seasons -- is to bump the power rating to the degree that road games like Georgia Tech, Virginia and North Carolina State carry 6+ point theoretical advantage. Those road games against mid level conference teams dot the schedule every season. That's where the extra wins show up, when those games are comfortably taken.

So give us your predictions, dilweed. lulz. Prove you're as smart as you're trying to sound.

Assy Booger is known as the biggest blowhard in the history of UM sites. All he does is tell you how smart and great and successful he is. He never shows you though. Never provides any actual substance.

Then bet.on 10 wins Darrel
 
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...can win 10+ games last year but we can't expect 10 here.

Wisconsin was on its 3rd HC in 4 years. First year HC. No QB. Zero passing threat. P5 conference. 10 wins.

New HC at Michigan. Bad QB that Iowa dumped. Coming off a 5 win season. They won 10.

UNC was engulfed in NCAA ****. Coming off a 7 or 8 win season. Embattled HC. They win 11.

Poor mouthers, tell me why UM can't expect to do at least as well as sorry *** Wisconsin.

Do those schools have a brand new coach? Three true freshmen at LB? How is their DL?
 
...can win 10+ games last year but we can't expect 10 here.

Wisconsin was on its 3rd HC in 4 years. First year HC. No QB. Zero passing threat. P5 conference. 10 wins.

New HC at Michigan. Bad QB that Iowa dumped. Coming off a 5 win season. They won 10.

UNC was engulfed in NCAA ****. Coming off a 7 or 8 win season. Embattled HC. They win 11.

Poor mouthers, tell me why UM can't expect to do at least as well as sorry *** Wisconsin.

Do those schools have a brand new coach? Three true freshmen at LB? How is their DL?

Michigan had a brand new coach and a D-line that wishes it was as talented as Miami's.
 
Expect to win 10? I don't know how you expect 10. I think we definitely can win 10, but I don't expect us to in the sense that I'll be disappointed if we don't. Also when you guys say win 10, are you counting the bowl game? Because when I give season predictions I usually just predict the regular season since we have no idea what bowl we'll be in. I predict we probably win 10, but don't "expect" us to.

IMO the goal this year should be Beating FSU, Getting to the ACC Championship game, and Winning our bowl game. If we only get 8 or 9 regular season wins this year but accomplish those goals I am going to be satisfied with this season. It wouldn't be a great season or anything, but It would be a solid start to the Mark Richt Era.

I say this because in the first year with a new coaching staff and a whole lot of young starters, I think we might lose one game that we shouldn't, like Pitt or GT or something.

So, My season prediction is we win every game but VTech and ND.
 
Very familiar. Threads like this are exceptionally popular on fan sites, as opposed to wagering oriented sites where the mathematical aspect is better understood.

Wisconsin, Michigan and North Carolina were all favored by 6 points or more 9 times last season, per the consensus closing line. Contrast to the 2015 Canes, who were favored by 6+ only 4 times. Right now the over/under on the 2016 Canes would be 5 games favored by 6+.

Again, it's not all that complicated. In our best recent season -- 2013 -- we won 9 games while being favored by 6+ in 8 games. Believe it or not, those season win over/unders are not a wild subjective stab, an impression they hey the 2016 Miami Hurricanes seem like a 7.5 team so let's hang that number. Pointspread projections are made of every game, and the associated money lines attached. Those money lines when applied to the appropriate formula spit out the logical season win forecast. In 2013 with a favorable schedule and a relatively high power rating we were projected to be considerable favorite quite often, hence our season win over/under was initially 9.5, although it was bet down to 9 in some spots in late August.

Wisconsin in 2015 didn't do anything remarkable. Their season win over/under (regular season only) opened at 10 despite being a double digit underdog in the opener against Alabama. Some spots were bet down to 9.5 late. North Carolina was 8 while Michigan was 7.5 then bet up to 8 at many joints in the late weeks.

When I first was hired as sportsbook supervisor in 1989 but didn't know much about the applicable math toward those season win totals and future book odds, one of the chief oddsmakers pulled me aside and tutored. It was really an eye opener. His first advice on football was to look at those games in which a team was projected to be favored by a touchdown. Those games, he explained carried roughly -250 win expectancy, or theoretically 5 chances in 7. Once it reaches that level there begins to be some substantial advantage, as opposed to 3 or 4 point spreads. Besides, he said, the games with a touchdown projected spread in preseason are more likely to reach double digits at actual gametime than they were to reverse favoritism at gametime. None of this is linear. The advantage swells upward as the pointspread increases.

BTW, NFL favorites win more dependably than college favorites, so those NFL money lines are higher at the same spread than college favorites. Basketball favorites win more dependably than football chalk so those basketball money line charts are higher than football charts. Regardless, the money line fits very well at each pointspread. Plug and play. If you evaluate hundreds or thousands of results at each spread and in each sport as a block, you'll see that the favorite won the game almost exactly as often as the money line predicted they would. That in itself shoots down the laughably ignorant notion that the pointspread is not a prediction of the outcome, but merely serves to balance the action. I always have to chuckle at geniuses who supply that line. Power ratings and home field provide the spread. The spread points to the money line. The money line provides win likelihood. And a scatter plot of results in relation to the spread reveals normal and logical distribution over time.

The 2016 Canes can certainly win 10 games. But it will require our power rating shooting up a full touchdown or more during the course of the season, like Michigan's did last year. Otherwise we are relying on outliers and upsets and coin flips. Only knuckleheads rely on outliers and upsets and coin flips. That was one of the jolts I received upon joining message boards in the late '90s. I had no idea that despicable cats were so popular, and I had no idea outliers were so prized. In my Las Vegas sportsbook environment sure you hear about outliers but the people touting them have to grasp and announce the 8/1 burden, or 15/1 burden, or 30/1 burden, or whatever. Otherwise they will be laughed off the stage, and rightfully so.

Somehow on message boards, particularly sports message boards, it is popular and accepted to try to deflect a pronouncement via use of an outlier example. One relatively meaningless exception and the poster somehow believes the point has been diffused, that the 90%+ foundation holds no worth. Hilarious. But I've learned to accept it. It goes on everywhere, not merely here. Those posters know there is a market for the high decibel outliers, just like certain political authors know they can lap up SAM sales and SAM acclaim via use of blunt titles like "Outrage" and "Slander."

The ACC Coastal is unusually condensed. That's one of our hurdles toward 10 wins or nearby. The power ratings of every team in that division are within 10 points of each other entering 2016. North Carolina tops the Sagarin numbers at 81 then it drops no lower than 71. You won't find congestion like that in any other conference or division. It's the reason the 2016 Canes can't rely on normalcy...wonderful normalcy...as opposed to outliers and upsets and coin flips. Richt's job -- now and more likely toward future seasons -- is to bump the power rating to the degree that road games like Georgia Tech, Virginia and North Carolina State carry 6+ point theoretical advantage. Those road games against mid level conference teams dot the schedule every season. That's where the extra wins show up, when those games are comfortably taken.

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I would love a10 win season. I'm as optimistic as the next guy. But there is a reason most talking heads have us 7-6 and Vegas has us what 7 or 8 wins.
 
Very familiar. Threads like this are exceptionally popular on fan sites, as opposed to wagering oriented sites where the mathematical aspect is better understood.

Wisconsin, Michigan and North Carolina were all favored by 6 points or more 9 times last season, per the consensus closing line. Contrast to the 2015 Canes, who were favored by 6+ only 4 times. Right now the over/under on the 2016 Canes would be 5 games favored by 6+.

Again, it's not all that complicated. In our best recent season -- 2013 -- we won 9 games while being favored by 6+ in 8 games. Believe it or not, those season win over/unders are not a wild subjective stab, an impression they hey the 2016 Miami Hurricanes seem like a 7.5 team so let's hang that number. Pointspread projections are made of every game, and the associated money lines attached. Those money lines when applied to the appropriate formula spit out the logical season win forecast. In 2013 with a favorable schedule and a relatively high power rating we were projected to be considerable favorite quite often, hence our season win over/under was initially 9.5, although it was bet down to 9 in some spots in late August.

Wisconsin in 2015 didn't do anything remarkable. Their season win over/under (regular season only) opened at 10 despite being a double digit underdog in the opener against Alabama. Some spots were bet down to 9.5 late. North Carolina was 8 while Michigan was 7.5 then bet up to 8 at many joints in the late weeks.

When I first was hired as sportsbook supervisor in 1989 but didn't know much about the applicable math toward those season win totals and future book odds, one of the chief oddsmakers pulled me aside and tutored. It was really an eye opener. His first advice on football was to look at those games in which a team was projected to be favored by a touchdown. Those games, he explained carried roughly -250 win expectancy, or theoretically 5 chances in 7. Once it reaches that level there begins to be some substantial advantage, as opposed to 3 or 4 point spreads. Besides, he said, the games with a touchdown projected spread in preseason are more likely to reach double digits at actual gametime than they were to reverse favoritism at gametime. None of this is linear. The advantage swells upward as the pointspread increases.

BTW, NFL favorites win more dependably than college favorites, so those NFL money lines are higher at the same spread than college favorites. Basketball favorites win more dependably than football chalk so those basketball money line charts are higher than football charts. Regardless, the money line fits very well at each pointspread. Plug and play. If you evaluate hundreds or thousands of results at each spread and in each sport as a block, you'll see that the favorite won the game almost exactly as often as the money line predicted they would. That in itself shoots down the laughably ignorant notion that the pointspread is not a prediction of the outcome, but merely serves to balance the action. I always have to chuckle at geniuses who supply that line. Power ratings and home field provide the spread. The spread points to the money line. The money line provides win likelihood. And a scatter plot of results in relation to the spread reveals normal and logical distribution over time.

The 2016 Canes can certainly win 10 games. But it will require our power rating shooting up a full touchdown or more during the course of the season, like Michigan's did last year. Otherwise we are relying on outliers and upsets and coin flips. Only knuckleheads rely on outliers and upsets and coin flips. That was one of the jolts I received upon joining message boards in the late '90s. I had no idea that despicable cats were so popular, and I had no idea outliers were so prized. In my Las Vegas sportsbook environment sure you hear about outliers but the people touting them have to grasp and announce the 8/1 burden, or 15/1 burden, or 30/1 burden, or whatever. Otherwise they will be laughed off the stage, and rightfully so.

Somehow on message boards, particularly sports message boards, it is popular and accepted to try to deflect a pronouncement via use of an outlier example. One relatively meaningless exception and the poster somehow believes the point has been diffused, that the 90%+ foundation holds no worth. Hilarious. But I've learned to accept it. It goes on everywhere, not merely here. Those posters know there is a market for the high decibel outliers, just like certain political authors know they can lap up SAM sales and SAM acclaim via use of blunt titles like "Outrage" and "Slander."

The ACC Coastal is unusually condensed. That's one of our hurdles toward 10 wins or nearby. The power ratings of every team in that division are within 10 points of each other entering 2016. North Carolina tops the Sagarin numbers at 81 then it drops no lower than 71. You won't find congestion like that in any other conference or division. It's the reason the 2016 Canes can't rely on normalcy...wonderful normalcy...as opposed to outliers and upsets and coin flips. Richt's job -- now and more likely toward future seasons -- is to bump the power rating to the degree that road games like Georgia Tech, Virginia and North Carolina State carry 6+ point theoretical advantage. Those road games against mid level conference teams dot the schedule every season. That's where the extra wins show up, when those games are comfortably taken.

Excellent post ! An equities trader needs his system to show at bare minimum 67% success rate before a trade is considered .Translate that to the point spread and if my math is right ,even an 8.5 pt fav only wins about 75% of the time.

I'm gonna guess we have less than a 1% chance of winning 10. Just being realistic-hope we win all 12.
 
Assy Booger is known as the biggest blowhard in the history of UM sites. All he does is tell you how smart and great and successful he is. He never shows you though. Never provides any actual substance.

He isnt the only one....kettle this is pot...

Ok Awsi...lots of "quant" in your post...but can you back it up with a thought through argument?

How about walking the board through what the money line says about USC v Bama or FSU v Ole Miss???

What say you how how the moneyline is predicting the outcome?

Don't and it diminshes your credibility...you dont have to be right...but backing away is another matter entirely...
 
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Wisconsin has a much better program right now than Miami. As a fan of both I think I can say that. I'm also from Wisconsin and grew up with badger gear on so I'm no homer.

Dave Aranda had that D a Top 3 D the last three years. That how they won 10 games + for the last few years. Good Run Game, Good D. Keys to Victory.
 
I really don't understand reporters picking us at 8 wins. We lost Scott, Burns and Bush. That's it. We won 4 games last year with a TE coach and they see no improvement? Sure they say we'll be better and then still pick 8 games. Looking at you Porter.

Sent from my Z970 using Tapatalk

Makes no sense to me how anyone who calls himself a football fan or reporter could go into this season expecting us to have the same record we had last year.

Not only were we coachless for half the season, but the toxicity surrounding the program was unprecedented in history. The players were completely beat down and unmotivated by the circus that UM had allowed to continue.

We have one of the best QBs in college football, yet no one wants to account for that huge advantage.

The same idiot talking heads will come back from the previous segment of saying "ALL you need is a good QB to win at this level...." and then will do predictions and have us winning like 7 games as "Mark Richt tries to right the ship in Miami...". These dolts would be jerking each other off if ANY SEC school had a junior QB like Kaaya. Jesuchristo, they'd be dark-horsing Arky as a 2nd SEC team into the Playoff if he was at that dump of a program.

So how many games do you think we'd win if we didn't have Kaaya then? I'd bet 95% of you guys would still be predicting a 9-10 win season if Kaaya was out for some reason, so It's kinda a double standard.
Comparing our position groups to others in the ACC -
RB core is good. OLine is solid. WR group is good. TE group is great.
DT's are good. DE's are average. LB group is below average until they prove anything. Safety is good. Corner is above average.
That tells me, we are going to have a good Offense and an average Defense and we have no depth anywhere which is not good.
With an average QB, we'd probably be a 6/7 win team. With Kaaya we are a 8/9 win team.
 
...can win 10+ games last year but we can't expect 10 here.

Wisconsin was on its 3rd HC in 4 years. First year HC. No QB. Zero passing threat. P5 conference. 10 wins.

New HC at Michigan. Bad QB that Iowa dumped. Coming off a 5 win season. They won 10.

UNC was engulfed in NCAA ****. Coming off a 7 or 8 win season. Embattled HC. They win 11.

Poor mouthers, tell me why UM can't expect to do at least as well as sorry *** Wisconsin.

Those other teams had severe cases of pneumonia; we had lung cancer -- Golden Stage frigging lung cancer. But I agree, we win 10 plus this year.
 
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Last Year: Team wins 8 games during the regular season without any "coaching" and against a tougher schedule.

This Year: Better coach comes in and we have an easier schedule.

Richt isn't a first time coach. We open with 3 jokes and then have a week off before playing GT. Plenty of time to get things going before it matters. 10 wins (before the bowl) isn't some monumental achievement either. Get it done Richt.
 
Last Year: Team wins 8 games during the regular season without any "coaching" and against a tougher schedule.

This Year: Better coach comes in and we have an easier schedule.

Richt isn't a first time coach. We open with 3 jokes and then have a week off before playing GT. Plenty of time to get things going before it matters. 10 wins (before the bowl) isn't some monumental achievement either. Get it done Richt.

...And a worse team. Everyone glosses over the fact we've lost a lot of people.
And yes last years schedule was harder, but not by all that much. We trade Clemson for ND. Away at App St is tougher than Nebraska or Cincinnati were last year. GTech, VTech, and Pitt will all be better while UNC is going to be slightly worse. It's like you guys assume we are the only ACC team that can improve from one year to another.
 
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Last Year: Team wins 8 games during the regular season without any "coaching" and against a tougher schedule.

This Year: Better coach comes in and we have an easier schedule.

Richt isn't a first time coach. We open with 3 jokes and then have a week off before playing GT. Plenty of time to get things going before it matters. 10 wins (before the bowl) isn't some monumental achievement either. Get it done Richt.

You are right. 10 wins should be a minimum. Even with two, IMO, guaranteed losses to Free Shoes and ND, any other loss would be a bad loss, to an inferior team. Losing to the Vts and UNCs of the Coastal should be a thing of the past.
 
I really don't understand reporters picking us at 8 wins. We lost Scott, Burns and Bush. That's it. We won 4 games last year with a TE coach and they see no improvement? Sure they say we'll be better and then still pick 8 games. Looking at you Porter.

Sent from my Z970 using Tapatalk

Makes no sense to me how anyone who calls himself a football fan or reporter could go into this season expecting us to have the same record we had last year.

Not only were we coachless for half the season, but the toxicity surrounding the program was unprecedented in history. The players were completely beat down and unmotivated by the circus that UM had allowed to continue.

We have one of the best QBs in college football, yet no one wants to account for that huge advantage.

The same idiot talking heads will come back from the previous segment of saying "ALL you need is a good QB to win at this level...." and then will do predictions and have us winning like 7 games as "Mark Richt tries to right the ship in Miami...". These dolts would be jerking each other off if ANY SEC school had a junior QB like Kaaya. Jesuchristo, they'd be dark-horsing Arky as a 2nd SEC team into the Playoff if he was at that dump of a program.

So how many games do you think we'd win if we didn't have Kaaya then? I'd bet 95% of you guys would still be predicting a 9-10 win season if Kaaya was out for some reason, so It's kinda a double standard.
Comparing our position groups to others in the ACC -
RB core is good. OLine is solid. WR group is good. TE group is great.
DT's are good. DE's are average. LB group is below average until they prove anything. Safety is good. Corner is above average.
That tells me, we are going to have a good Offense and an average Defense and we have no depth anywhere which is not good.
With an average QB, we'd probably be a 6/7 win team. With Kaaya we are a 8/9 win team.

95% of people would be idiots then but methinks you overestimate the optimism that'd be around here if Kaaya wasn't available. I think you overestimate it by a lotttttttt.
 
Last Year: Team wins 8 games during the regular season without any "coaching" and against a tougher schedule.

This Year: Better coach comes in and we have an easier schedule.

Richt isn't a first time coach. We open with 3 jokes and then have a week off before playing GT. Plenty of time to get things going before it matters. 10 wins (before the bowl) isn't some monumental achievement either. Get it done Richt.

...And a worse team. Everyone glosses over the fact we've lost a lot of people.
And yes last years schedule was harder, but not by all that much. We trade Clemson for ND. Away at App St is tougher than Nebraska or Cincinnati were last year. GTech, VTech, and Pitt will all be better while UNC is going to be slightly worse. It's like you guys assume we are the only ACC team that can improve from one year to another.

How are we a worse team? Nobody glosses over it. We lost some players, we have better coaches. For the first time, in a long time, we have actual coaching.
 
Last Year: Team wins 8 games during the regular season without any "coaching" and against a tougher schedule.

This Year: Better coach comes in and we have an easier schedule.

Richt isn't a first time coach. We open with 3 jokes and then have a week off before playing GT. Plenty of time to get things going before it matters. 10 wins (before the bowl) isn't some monumental achievement either. Get it done Richt.

...And a worse team. Everyone glosses over the fact we've lost a lot of people.
And yes last years schedule was harder, but not by all that much. We trade Clemson for ND. Away at App St is tougher than Nebraska or Cincinnati were last year. GTech, VTech, and Pitt will all be better while UNC is going to be slightly worse. It's like you guys assume we are the only ACC team that can improve from one year to another.

How are we a worse team? Nobody glosses over it. We lost some players, we have better coaches. For the first time, in a long time, we have actual coaching.

Yes. Better Coaches. Not as many good players.
 
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