Personnel for a two-gap 3-4 next year

[CaneMutiny06]

So after Wilfork Miami hasn't put any DT's worth of crap in the NFL running the "Fun" and "Attacking" 4-3 defense you all are saying would solve all our problems on D.

Yet despite not having a dominant DT after Wilfork, Miami was still able to field quality defenses under a 4-3 scheme.

 

[Pentagon Cane]

First thing I look at is their stance.

If their stance is square, kinda like they're sitting in a chair, and there's very little weight on their front hand...they're either 2-gapping or angling/slanting. They sure as **** ain't firing off the ball.

Look at our guys stances and their first steps. It's straight UP and not FORWARD. We allow blockers to come to us.


Anybody remember the video of Franklin doing the read drill with our D-linemen?

I don't recall this video. Is it still online?

All of the drill videos can be found here: http://hfbca.theusports.com/

Wildcat: can you find the clip you're referring to?

I can't find it. It's a great site. They've got a Low Boy Sled, Chute Drill and Sled Drill. Sled Drill emphasizes quick feet and strike. Nobody teaches stand up and read.

 

[CaneAlmighty]

I don't think anyone is saying even remotely that Temple was DT U. Smfh.

The point that was made was it is complete nonsense to believe our DL are being taught to play patty cake, when this staff was able to take a 2-star basketball player and in three years turn him into a 1st round "elite 3-4 DE prospect" (NFL.com). He then proceeded to start immediately for the Jets, and immediately was an impact player. None of this happens if he isn't coached properly.

Wilkerson was not a "2 star". Dude was a high 3 star coming out of prep school. Since he went to prep school he also had an extra year of development. That is ONE ****ing kid, who else did dorito and golden "develop" and help to get drafted that played on the Dline. Central Michigan and whoever is the coach there "developed" Eric fisher. Memphis and whoever was/is the coach there "developed" Dontari Poe lol.

don't play stupid, POE was a 5 star recruit.
and the other is Knighton from Denver.
How many Miami DT's have made more of an impact the last 10 years other than Wilfork that happens to play in a similar gap technique you all are whinning about.
I'll hang up and listen.

 

[Pentagon Cane]

So after Wilfork Miami hasn't put any DT's worth of crap in the NFL running the "Fun" and "Attacking" 4-3 defense you all are saying would solve all our problems on D.

Yet despite not having a dominant DT after Wilfork, Miami was still able to field quality defenses under a 4-3 scheme.

As I've stated, Kareem Brown has a kid with an explosive first and second step and he was shielded by Calais Campbell. There were a lot of very good players on the 2006 roster who are very good players currently on NFL rosters.

 

[CaneAlmighty]

So after Wilfork Miami hasn't put any DT's worth of crap in the NFL running the "Fun" and "Attacking" 4-3 defense you all are saying would solve all our problems on D.

Yet despite not having a dominant DT after Wilfork, Miami was still able to field quality defenses under a 4-3 scheme.

and similarly Temple had a quality defense when they were giving up 316 yards per game ranked top 20 nationally running the 3-4 2 gap scheme.

and also, you guys have to stick to a side, is it about kids worrying about not being drafted under this system or about fielding a quality defense?
In either case, Golden has shown both can happen.
In the meantime bich away all you want..

 

[FullyERicht]

The problem is talent and reps. It's hard to get enough reps for the DL reading every type of block and then every decision a RB makes on top of that on a limited schedule (unlike the NFL). To compound that, our NT is a senior who has practiced (time wise) the reps of a sophomore in this system. Dude was missing time every year that was critical to him getting the reps needed to play effectively in this system. That's why Stanford under Fangio was succeeding with it: they had guys who had five years worth of reps starting, who were built for that system. We have a 4-3 DE playing 3-4 DE, a 2-star last minute addition in OP, and a senior who hasn't practiced or played a full season in like 3 years.

These aren't excuses for us to keep the system. The system is based on the idea that we need to run it b/c simpler methods can be exposed by elite QBs. But in college it is rare to EVER play a QB that requires such complexity thrown at him. It's a waste of time to run this kind of defense in college. But don't make idiotic statements or inferences that our coaches don't know what pattern matching is, or how to properly coach 2 gap DL. It honestly comes off as immature, jealous, and foolish.

 

[LuCane]

The problem is talent and reps. It's hard to get enough reps for the DL reading every type of block and then every decision a RB makes on top of that on a limited schedule (unlike the NFL). To compound that, our NT is a senior who has practiced (time wise) the reps of a sophomore in this system. Dude was missing time every year that was critical to him getting the reps needed to play effectively in this system. That's why Stanford under Fangio was succeeding with it: they had guys who had five years worth of reps starting, who were built for that system. We have a 4-3 DE playing 3-4 DE, a 2-star last minute addition in OP, and a senior who hasn't practiced or played a full season in like 3 years.

These aren't excuses for us to keep the system. The system is based on the idea that we need to run it b/c simpler methods can be exposed by elite QBs. But in college it is rare to EVER play a QB that requires such complexity thrown at him. It's a waste of time to run this kind of defense in college. But don't make idiotic statements or inferences that our coaches don't know what pattern matching is, or how to properly coach 2 gap DL. It honestly comes off as immature, jealous, and foolish.

Agree with the bolded.

But, are you saying Fangio ran a predominant 2-gap system?

 

[FullyERicht]

From what I can remember/understand they ran a 2-gap base front. Like most modern 3-4 teams I believe they had a single gap 3rd and long package to accompany it.

For the 9ers they play both, even with the same personnel, which is very cool.

 

[LuCane]

From what I can remember/understand they ran a 2-gap base front. Like most modern 3-4 teams I believe they had a single gap 3rd and long package to accompany it.

For the 9ers they play both, even with the same personnel, which is very cool.

Pretty sure Fangio ran with a one-gap front. They talked about it a lot, at least through reference, when Oregon started having trouble with it. Let me see if I can find something.

Here's a decent look: http://blutarsky.wordpress.com/2012/11/23/old-man-football-one-gap-style/

It'll also lead you to some solid quotes from a guy who's run both 1 and 2 gap systems. Like this:

"Truthfully, when you play a 1-gap, you're doing the same thing, it's just you're playing this gap," Grantham said. "Personally, the way we play it, I think it's better suited for today's game because No. 1 you play the run physical but it also allows you to rush the passer when that occurs. I actually think you've got to be more disciplined to play this way because you can always attack a guy, knock a guy back, come out of our hips, and deliver blows and strike guys when they're looking to convert. I think the way we play now is the way we want to play."

 

[Pentagon Cane]

Yes, Stanford runs a 1-gap version.

 

[TP801]

Not sure if anyone saw what happened to Tennesee in 2012. Sal Sunseri was hired as the DC and "installed"(or at least tried to to) the 3-4 at UT. Fans where excited before the season because of course that's what bam a runs, and thought similar results in terms of d rankings would happen. Instead Tennesee got LIT THE **** UP for pretty much the entire season on defense, and everyone wanted the 4-3 back. Truthfully on paper they had a lot of talent on defense. They had that tall juco kid Daniel Mcculers playing Nose and he was suppose to be a monster prototype....... Not sure if they where running the same stuff dorito does as it's been a min.

 

[Coach Macho]

First thing I look at is their stance.

If their stance is square, kinda like they're sitting in a chair, and there's very little weight on their front hand...they're either 2-gapping or angling/slanting. They sure as **** ain't firing off the ball.

Look at our guys stances and their first steps. It's straight UP and not FORWARD. We allow blockers to come to us.


Anybody remember the video of Franklin doing the read drill with our D-linemen?

I don't recall this video. Is it still online?

All of the drill videos can be found here: http://hfbca.theusports.com/

Wildcat: can you find the clip you're referring to?

Found it. The "Reactor Sled" video under D-line drills.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW4Dnxe2p40

 

[FullyERicht]

From what I can remember/understand they ran a 2-gap base front. Like most modern 3-4 teams I believe they had a single gap 3rd and long package to accompany it.

For the 9ers they play both, even with the same personnel, which is very cool.

Pretty sure Fangio ran with a one-gap front. They talked about it a lot, at least through reference, when Oregon started having trouble with it. Let me see if I can find something.

Here's a decent look: http://blutarsky.wordpress.com/2012/11/23/old-man-football-one-gap-style/

It'll also lead you to some solid quotes from a guy who's run both 1 and 2 gap systems. Like this:

"Truthfully, when you play a 1-gap, you're doing the same thing, it's just you're playing this gap," Grantham said. "Personally, the way we play it, I think it's better suited for today's game because No. 1 you play the run physical but it also allows you to rush the passer when that occurs. I actually think you've got to be more disciplined to play this way because you can always attack a guy, knock a guy back, come out of our hips, and deliver blows and strike guys when they're looking to convert. I think the way we play now is the way we want to play."

Great link: but that was post Fangio. I'm somewhat positive Fangio ran a 2gap base. Probably why Oregon trashed them the previous year.

 

[Coach Macho]

First thing I look at is their stance.

If their stance is square, kinda like they're sitting in a chair, and there's very little weight on their front hand...they're either 2-gapping or angling/slanting. They sure as **** ain't firing off the ball.

Look at our guys stances and their first steps. It's straight UP and not FORWARD. We allow blockers to come to us.

Anybody remember the video of Franklin doing the read drill with our D-linemen?

Who the fuque would teach that?

Pretty sure that's how most 2-gap teams do it.

 

[Pentagon Cane]

First thing I look at is their stance.

If their stance is square, kinda like they're sitting in a chair, and there's very little weight on their front hand...they're either 2-gapping or angling/slanting. They sure as **** ain't firing off the ball.

Look at our guys stances and their first steps. It's straight UP and not FORWARD. We allow blockers to come to us.

Anybody remember the video of Franklin doing the read drill with our D-linemen?

Who the fuque would teach that?

Pretty sure that's how most 2-gap teams do it.

That's not what he's teaching in the drill. He's not have the kids stand straight up. He wants the kids to get the second step as quickly as possible. Look at their back alignment on the drill. It's quick feet drill working on their punching. On the first highlight he had the kid in a 3-technique and he wanted the kid to fill the vacated hole of the pull guarding and cause a collision on the double team. On the next clip Hamilton beat his opponent to the second step allowing him to get really good push and played gap and a half.

 

[Coach Macho]

First thing I look at is their stance.

If their stance is square, kinda like they're sitting in a chair, and there's very little weight on their front hand...they're either 2-gapping or angling/slanting. They sure as **** ain't firing off the ball.

Look at our guys stances and their first steps. It's straight UP and not FORWARD. We allow blockers to come to us.

Anybody remember the video of Franklin doing the read drill with our D-linemen?

Who the fuque would teach that?

Pretty sure that's how most 2-gap teams do it.

That's not what he's teaching in the drill. He's not have the kids stand straight up. He wants the kids to get the second step as quickly as possible. Look at their back alignment on the drill. It's quick feet drill working on their punching. On the first highlight he had the kid in a 3-technique and he wanted the kid to fill the vacated hole of the pull guarding and cause a collision on the double team. On the next clip Hamilton beat his opponent to the second step allowing him to get really good push and played gap and a half.

You and this "second step" stuff. LOL

Dude, it's a reaction drill, thus the name REACTOR SLED. It's a read drill, not a footwork drill. They're suppose to read the hat, step in that direction and punch. They take a short "power step" and read. They HAVE TO STAND UP to do this. You can't run this technique if you're firing forward.

 

[FullyERicht]

First thing I look at is their stance.

If their stance is square, kinda like they're sitting in a chair, and there's very little weight on their front hand...they're either 2-gapping or angling/slanting. They sure as **** ain't firing off the ball.

Look at our guys stances and their first steps. It's straight UP and not FORWARD. We allow blockers to come to us.

Anybody remember the video of Franklin doing the read drill with our D-linemen?

Who the fuque would teach that?

Pretty sure that's how most 2-gap teams do it.

That's not what he's teaching in the drill. He's not have the kids stand straight up. He wants the kids to get the second step as quickly as possible. Look at their back alignment on the drill. It's quick feet drill working on their punching. On the first highlight he had the kid in a 3-technique and he wanted the kid to fill the vacated hole of the pull guarding and cause a collision on the double team. On the next clip Hamilton beat his opponent to the second step allowing him to get really good push and played gap and a half.

You and this "second step" stuff. LOL

Dude, it's a reaction drill, thus the name REACTOR SLED. It's a read drill, not a footwork drill. They're suppose to read the hat, step in that direction and punch. They take a short "power step" and read. They HAVE TO STAND UP to do this. You can't run this technique if you're firing forward.

So your complaint is that they are doing what they are supposed to do in one drill? What is the complaint here? We run one and two gap principles. Is your issue with the nature of 2-gap technique?

 

[Coach Macho]

Who the fuque would teach that?

Pretty sure that's how most 2-gap teams do it.

That's not what he's teaching in the drill. He's not have the kids stand straight up. He wants the kids to get the second step as quickly as possible. Look at their back alignment on the drill. It's quick feet drill working on their punching. On the first highlight he had the kid in a 3-technique and he wanted the kid to fill the vacated hole of the pull guarding and cause a collision on the double team. On the next clip Hamilton beat his opponent to the second step allowing him to get really good push and played gap and a half.

You and this "second step" stuff. LOL

Dude, it's a reaction drill, thus the name REACTOR SLED. It's a read drill, not a footwork drill. They're suppose to read the hat, step in that direction and punch. They take a short "power step" and read. They HAVE TO STAND UP to do this. You can't run this technique if you're firing forward.

So your complaint is that they are doing what they are supposed to do in one drill? What is the complaint here? We run one and two gap principles. Is your issue with the nature of 2-gap technique?

My complaint is that we insist on 2-gapping despite the fact that we obviously can't do it.

My complaint is that our defensive philosophy is passive.

My complaint is that we stand straight up on the snap of the football.

 

[Pentagon Cane]

First thing I look at is their stance.

If their stance is square, kinda like they're sitting in a chair, and there's very little weight on their front hand...they're either 2-gapping or angling/slanting. They sure as **** ain't firing off the ball.

Look at our guys stances and their first steps. It's straight UP and not FORWARD. We allow blockers to come to us.

Anybody remember the video of Franklin doing the read drill with our D-linemen?

Who the fuque would teach that?

Pretty sure that's how most 2-gap teams do it.

That's not what he's teaching in the drill. He's not have the kids stand straight up. He wants the kids to get the second step as quickly as possible. Look at their back alignment on the drill. It's quick feet drill working on their punching. On the first highlight he had the kid in a 3-technique and he wanted the kid to fill the vacated hole of the pull guarding and cause a collision on the double team. On the next clip Hamilton beat his opponent to the second step allowing him to get really good push and played gap and a half.

You and this "second step" stuff. LOL

Dude, it's a reaction drill, thus the name REACTOR SLED. It's a read drill, not a footwork drill. They're suppose to read the hat, step in that direction and punch. They take a short "power step" and read. They HAVE TO STAND UP to do this. You can't run this technique if you're firing forward.

Well, no ***** it is a reaction drill. Baloney they HAVE TO STAND UP to do this drill. If they did, then why is Franklin emphasizing keeping a flat back the first step and and keeping it flat and punching to the hat at the pad level on the second step? If second step didn't matter then why is Franklin emphasizing getting the second step to where the hat is? His words dude not mine.

So you don't think hand speed and foot speed matter on this drill? We're just going to have to disagree.

 

[Pentagon Cane]

Pretty sure that's how most 2-gap teams do it.

That's not what he's teaching in the drill. He's not have the kids stand straight up. He wants the kids to get the second step as quickly as possible. Look at their back alignment on the drill. It's quick feet drill working on their punching. On the first highlight he had the kid in a 3-technique and he wanted the kid to fill the vacated hole of the pull guarding and cause a collision on the double team. On the next clip Hamilton beat his opponent to the second step allowing him to get really good push and played gap and a half.

You and this "second step" stuff. LOL

Dude, it's a reaction drill, thus the name REACTOR SLED. It's a read drill, not a footwork drill. They're suppose to read the hat, step in that direction and punch. They take a short "power step" and read. They HAVE TO STAND UP to do this. You can't run this technique if you're firing forward.

So your complaint is that they are doing what they are supposed to do in one drill? What is the complaint here? We run one and two gap principles. Is your issue with the nature of 2-gap technique?

My complaint is that we insist on 2-gapping despite the fact that we obviously can't do it.

My complaint is that our defensive philosophy is passive.

My complaint is that we stand straight up on the snap of the football.

I absolutely agree with #1 and #2.