Personnel for a two-gap 3-4 next year

[QuadCityCane]

The reality is that there are a finite number of combination patterns teams are going to run in these scenarios. Smash concept. Flood concept. 2 Verticals. Vertical with a drag underneath. Etc. Their chances of successful execution would all be greatly reduced if we didn't combine what we do back there with playing contain up front. It's hard as **** to get a jump on some of these combination routes if the WR has an extra two yards to test your cushion.

I might've asked you this before, and perhaps it could be its own thread, but what do you think the paradigm is for Golden/MDO's defense?

What do you think this defense looks like when it's operating how they want it?


All I can really say is we want to be "multiple" but philosophically, I'm not sure. The weird thing about Golden is he says all the right things in interviews, but the product looks different on the field. ***Cue car salesman joke***.

But seriously. He talks about getting TFLs, getting off the field on 3rd down, eliminating "cupcake" throws, etc... but we keep seeing it. Either those things aren't that important, or for whatever reason (coaching, talent, etc...) he's unable to produce those results with this group of players.

They want all those things I'm sure because they have done it before with other defenses. I illustrated most of this in my extra long blog post but if you look at every miami defense from 2011 and before. They all had at least average+ strong safety play. Now this isnt to say its just the players because it is not. The fact the coaches over the last two years have used a revolving door at the safety position is causing them to play and look confused, which then causes the coaches to not believe in them, so they then dont use them as much to help protect the linebackers. One giant circle of failure.
Fix the safety philosophy by finding 1 and sticking with them and most of the problems on defense will go away. Guys like Jo Jo(2011, Goldens first year) and Ray Ray(shannons last year) were not world beaters at SS but they were good enough to help produce defenses that gave up 20 points a game. Every SS for Miami 2011 and before finished in the top 4 in tackles, just like most average or better defenses in college, in 2012 Miamis best SS was 10th and in 2013 they are 13th in tackles.

I'm still not completely following this rationale. Fixing the Safety position (an obvious disaster) will not fix our core issues of DL style and the broader issue of allowing offenses to dictate our defense.

Able,

To answer your question, I have no idea what the ideal version of this would be. I don't think we're anywhere close because my brain and gut have gotten together to hope that Golden/D'Ono wouldn't play this style with better players.

I already explained all of this and I used tons of examples of different defenses, some with good/bad lines, some with good/bad backers, low sacks, ton of sacks, etc to show that the one constant in average or better defense was safety play. Obviously safety does not fix the dline issues, but it definitely allows you to be more aggressive on defense instead of allowing offenses to dictate to us. Thus allowing you to help the weaker points of your D which in turn makes for better defense.

 

[jerzeycane]

First thing I look at is their stance.

If their stance is square, kinda like they're sitting in a chair, and there's very little weight on their front hand...they're either 2-gapping or angling/slanting. They sure as **** ain't firing off the ball.

Look at our guys stances and their first steps. It's straight UP and not FORWARD. We allow blockers to come to us.


Anybody remember the video of Franklin doing the read drill with our D-linemen?

I don't recall this video. Is it still online?

All of the drill videos can be found here: http://hfbca.theusports.com/

Wildcat: can you find the clip you're referring to?

Found it. The "Reactor Sled" video under D-line drills.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW4Dnxe2p40

Know what I see here?

Bunch of guys who lack explosion. Nobody has good get off. We have a defensive line full of poor athletes with bad feet.

 

[Miami82]

Wildcat schooled you fools in this thread.

 

[jakeman1]

I swear it looks like the DL are actively trying to engage the OL instead of penetrating.

 

[Coach Macho]

I don't recall this video. Is it still online?

All of the drill videos can be found here: http://hfbca.theusports.com/

They're not supposed to get off! LOL



Wildcat: can you find the clip you're referring to?

Found it. The "Reactor Sled" video under D-line drills.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW4Dnxe2p40

Know what I see here?

Bunch of guys who lack explosion. Nobody has good get off. We have a defensive line full of poor athletes with bad feet.

They're not supposed to get off. LOL

EDIT: Get off in the way that most would categorize a true "get off".

Yeah they "get off", meaning they come out of their stance, but they're not getting off like we're accustomed to on the D-line. It's not a forward explosion.

 

[Coach Macho]

I swear it looks like the DL are actively trying to engage the OL instead of penetrating.

That's cause they are.

 

[Pentagon Cane]

I don't think anyone is saying even remotely that Temple was DT U. Smfh.

The point that was made was it is complete nonsense to believe our DL are being taught to play patty cake, when this staff was able to take a 2-star basketball player and in three years turn him into a 1st round "elite 3-4 DE prospect" (NFL.com). He then proceeded to start immediately for the Jets, and immediately was an impact player. None of this happens if he isn't coached properly.

Wilkerson was not a "2 star". Dude was a high 3 star coming out of prep school. Since he went to prep school he also had an extra year of development. That is ONE ****ing kid, who else did dorito and golden "develop" and help to get drafted that played on the Dline. Central Michigan and whoever is the coach there "developed" Eric fisher. Memphis and whoever was/is the coach there "developed" Dontari Poe lol.

Currently in the league, developed by Golden, D'Onofrio & Franklin

Muhammad Wilkerson-DT New York Jets

Terrance Knighton- DT Denver Broncos

Brian Sanford- DE Oakland Raiders

Out of the league but played (years) and Coached by Golden/Franklin


Andre Neblett 2010-2013 (Panthers/Patriots)

Clint Hurtt's resume's better.

Though Wilkerson is a BEAST...and Knighton can play..his younger brother is a redshirt for us right now.

Well Jesus....he should, he's coached at Miami and Louisville. In the years 2008-2012 (What I'm considering Golden's guys at Temple) Miami has produced four Defensive Lineman that have played at least two years in the league.

Calais Campbell, Allen Bailey, Oliver Vernon and Marcus Forston.

That is exactly the same number that Golden's coaches have produced @ TEMPLE during the same time period. You could make a good argument that Temple's 4 have been more productive in the league too.

Then why was Campbell more productive under John Palermo and Bailey, Vernon and Forston had their best seasons under Rich Petri?

 

[bbcane]

All of the drill videos can be found here: http://hfbca.theusports.com/

They're not supposed to get off! LOL



Wildcat: can you find the clip you're referring to?

Found it. The "Reactor Sled" video under D-line drills.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW4Dnxe2p40

Know what I see here?

Bunch of guys who lack explosion. Nobody has good get off. We have a defensive line full of poor athletes with bad feet.

They're not supposed to get off. LOL

EDIT: Get off in the way that most would categorize a true "get off".

Yeah they "get off", meaning they come out of their stance, but they're not getting off like we're accustomed to on the D-line. It's not a forward explosion.

This ain't pop warner where you shoot a gap everyplay

A lot of defenses do this. And we do not do this all the time

 

[bbcane]

Any d lineman going to the nfl will be asked to do this sooner or later. Almost every team does some form of it.

 

[bbcane]

I don't know much about this at college level. Show me a nfl team that does not 2 gap at some point every game.

 

[bbcane]

I swear it looks like the DL are actively trying to engage the OL instead of penetrating.

That's cause they are.

Yep this ain't high school. See the quarter back? Get him.

 

[Pentagon Cane]

I swear it looks like the DL are actively trying to engage the OL instead of penetrating.

On that drill they are. But watch the last clip and Grimble isn't quick enough and does not get under pad level and gets driven off the ball and pancaked. The pulling guard running the funnel really didn't do much. Chick and Pierre do a nice job holding their ground and Johnson does a nice job filling.

 

[RiDLer80]

I don't know much about this at college level. Show me a nfl team that does not 2 gap at some point every game.

Why does it matter what's being done in the NFL with grown men? This is college. There's a reason the 2-gap isn't ran nation wide in college. It's extremely hard to get the correct personnel for that defensive style.

 

[Coach Macho]

They're not supposed to get off! LOL



Wildcat: can you find the clip you're referring to?

Found it. The "Reactor Sled" video under D-line drills.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW4Dnxe2p40

Know what I see here?

Bunch of guys who lack explosion. Nobody has good get off. We have a defensive line full of poor athletes with bad feet.

They're not supposed to get off. LOL

EDIT: Get off in the way that most would categorize a true "get off".

Yeah they "get off", meaning they come out of their stance, but they're not getting off like we're accustomed to on the D-line. It's not a forward explosion.

This ain't pop warner where you shoot a gap everyplay

A lot of defenses do this. And we do not do this all the time

Not even gonna argue with you cause you're clearly just trying to piggyback off of WestEndzone's comments in the Ceronod thread.

 

[Coach Macho]

I don't know much about this at college level. Show me a nfl team that does not 2 gap at some point every game.

There's plenty. I don't know who lied to you and told you that everybody 2-gaps.