For those who want to rush this thing

[DaU83]

Dorito has to go as soon as the last game is over. clean house on the defensive side of the ball

You should probably find a new bandwagon to jump on. D'Onofrio is going nowhere...like it or not. There may be changes made below him...I have no clue...but Coach D is not going anywhere unless he gets a HC job (which seems rather unlikely at this point).

even if D'Onof does leave, we're still running Al Golden's D.

 

[sebastian91]

there is no Miami team in probably near the last 30 years that is that bad against a BAD offense.

Um, except for last year's defense, right? You did watch them last year?

Who was that team coached by?

Not the point. Dude said no team in the last 30 years was that bad. Dude is freaking wrong.

 

[NVA CANE]

these clowns to try to force feed us the fallacy that our front 7 couldn't start on any MAC teams makes them look brainwashed and stupid.

I'll say this: I don't think Miami would have won the MAC more than once or twice over the past 6-7 years.

 

[Bigtip]

I hate this ****ing defense. makes we wanna puke all over my TV

I just laugh now at every 3rd and long that we give up. it is a comedy. a tragic comedy

Right now, our opponent's most effective play against us has been 3rd down. The actual play doesn't matter--just the down. That has to stop. I'd be stunned if the coaches don't feel the same way and recognize that it is on them to put the players in the best position to make it stop.

you would think so but it continues every week. been that way for 3 years at least, so I am inclined to think that the coaches are incompetent

 

[Bigtip]

Dorito has to go as soon as the last game is over. clean house on the defensive side of the ball

You should probably find a new bandwagon to jump on. D'Onofrio is going nowhere...like it or not. There may be changes made below him...I have no clue...but Coach D is not going anywhere unless he gets a HC job (which seems rather unlikely at this point).

I've been a Canes fan probably longer than you. this is not a bandwagon you moron

there is NO EXCUSE to keep Dorito and this ****** defense. it will be the end of AG in Miami if he doesnt change it

 

[sebastian91]

Dorito has to go as soon as the last game is over. clean house on the defensive side of the ball

You should probably find a new bandwagon to jump on. D'Onofrio is going nowhere...like it or not. There may be changes made below him...I have no clue...but Coach D is not going anywhere unless he gets a HC job (which seems rather unlikely at this point).

even if D'Onof does leave, we're still running Al Golden's D.

Yup. And AG is going nowhere. The defensive struggles this year are not a surprise to many of us. Maybe a few decent performances against bad teams early in the season quieted the masses temporarily, but this defense was historically bad last year. I don't understand why expectations would be that all of a sudden that would change in one season. It's reasonable to expect improvement over last year (a low bar, but an incomplete dataset at this point...evaluate after the season). Anything beyond that is delusion. As I said earlier, we have the talent to beat mediocre teams, but we also lack enough talent to lose to them.

 

[252cane]

I'm tired of hearing it's golden's D. If he decides to get a new DC they would want to run what they like.

Golden wants a 3-4 so he would likely hire somebody with 3-4 experince. Coaches know what they want to run and get coordinators that runs the style.

Example if golden hires a assistant from the packers staff and they know that dom capers 3-4 that's what we will run. It's a 3-4 but not the same as golden's 3-4.

 

[NVA CANE]

So when this monster 2014 recruiting class comes in, I have a feeling you guys are going to tell us, well they are true freshmen so lets wait until they develop and then we can judge Dorito and the defensive scheme over all. So I have to wait until 2016 to get a fair assessment from the "its the lack of talent" folks before we can know for sure that Golden's defensive scheme is garbage.

The odd thing is, this very same team went through the same exact situation 15 or so years ago. Butch Davis had a defensive coordinator that had the miami defense ranked in the 60s and 80s (per vish's article). And you know what Butch Davis did? He fired his guy and brought in Schiano and the improvement was immediate. You have history telling you exactly what needs to happen and yet you guys are dismissing it. And butch had sanctions on him that were more severe than Goldens. So please explain to me how the Butch scenario is so different from what we are experiencing right now? And how keeping Dorito and Golden's philosophy would work?

 

[sebastian91]

Dorito has to go as soon as the last game is over. clean house on the defensive side of the ball

You should probably find a new bandwagon to jump on. D'Onofrio is going nowhere...like it or not. There may be changes made below him...I have no clue...but Coach D is not going anywhere unless he gets a HC job (which seems rather unlikely at this point).

I've been a Canes fan probably longer than you. this is not a bandwagon you moron

there is NO EXCUSE to keep Dorito and this ****ty defense. it will be the end of AG in Miami if he doesnt change it

Then that's on AG. It's his job on the line. No amount of childish bytching on a message board will change that.

Maybe you have been a fan longer than me...but let's just say that I remember the Carl Seimer era...

 

[poncho0091]

Why is Golden and staff and scheme getting a pass while the same people defending him for not having time and talent are the same people who had Randy on the hot seat after year 3. I like Golden, and believe he will get time and deserves it, but I refuse to give a pass when it's obvious our playcalling is not where it should be. With how our defense looks right now, Dnofrio would have been out the door a long time ago under any other staff. Randy was left with less than Golden was, but our defense never looked this bad. Our offense looking like trash is what got him fired and deservedly so.

By year 4 we were already on our 3rd DC and 2nd OC with Randy. 3 new DC's, 3 new schemes, and our players never seemed to have a problem adjusting. If we had depth, the defense could have been solid (minus tackling issues). Under dnofrio, 1 scheme, 3 years and we still dont know how to run it and still can't tackle.

This is for you "we dont have talent guys". The recruiting classes before Randy became HC were good, but player development was crap leading up to his becoming HC. He ended up in situations with WR who couldn't catch, WR moving to CB, CB moving to RB etc (essentially a bunch of guys who couldn't play). Add to that players were continually leaving early for the draft (you know back when we got 1st round draft picks) so depth was always an issue.

Randy's recruiting (starting from his first full class)

2007: #19 http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/teamrank/2007/all/all

2008: #5 http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/teamrank/2008/all/all

2009: #15 http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/teamrank/2009/all/all

2010: #16 http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/teamrank/2010/all/all

Golden's classes:

2011: (I know he was not here the full year, but included for continuity, and the class rank still was not bad)
#36 http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/teamrank/2011/all/all

2012: #9 http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/teamrank/2012/all/all

2013: #20 http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/teamrank/2013/all/all

2014: (not complete yet, but currently #3. Lets see how next year goes)

The seat was hot for Randy already at the same point in his HC tenure at miami. Now Golden gets some more time because of the Shapiro thing, but at a bare minimum, hot seat talks about his staff are not unwarranted. So why are the defenders giving a pass to the staff for 5 years when Randy, the HC, got 3 before the seat got hot?

 

[sebastian91]

So when this monster 2014 recruiting class comes in, I have a feeling you guys are going to tell us, well they are true freshmen so lets wait until they develop and then we can judge Dorito and the defensive scheme over all. So I have to wait until 2016 to get a fair assessment from the "its the lack of talent" folks before we can know for sure that Golden's defensive scheme is garbage.

The odd thing is, this very same team went through the same exact situation 15 or so years ago. Butch Davis had a defensive coordinator that had the miami defense ranked in the 60s and 80s (per vish's article). And you know what Butch Davis did? He fired his guy and brought in Schiano and the improvement was immediate. You have history telling you exactly what needs to happen and yet you guys are dismissing it. And butch had sanctions on him that were more severe than Goldens. So please explain to me how the Butch scenario is so different from what we are experiencing right now? And how keeping Dorito and Golden's philosophy would work?

Butch's teams lost 3 or more games his first 5 seasons.

 

[poncho0091]

there is no Miami team in probably near the last 30 years that is that bad against a BAD offense.

Um, except for last year's defense, right? You did watch them last year?

Ok not properly worded by me in that it was supposed to mean our defense in general since this staff has been here (not just this year), but that's fine if you want to point that out even though Bicho did just fine understanding the point I was getting at right after your post. I'm sure you understood as well, but we'll play that game.

 

[poncho0091]

So when this monster 2014 recruiting class comes in, I have a feeling you guys are going to tell us, well they are true freshmen so lets wait until they develop and then we can judge Dorito and the defensive scheme over all. So I have to wait until 2016 to get a fair assessment from the "its the lack of talent" folks before we can know for sure that Golden's defensive scheme is garbage.

The odd thing is, this very same team went through the same exact situation 15 or so years ago. Butch Davis had a defensive coordinator that had the miami defense ranked in the 60s and 80s (per vish's article). And you know what Butch Davis did? He fired his guy and brought in Schiano and the improvement was immediate. You have history telling you exactly what needs to happen and yet you guys are dismissing it. And butch had sanctions on him that were more severe than Goldens. So please explain to me how the Butch scenario is so different from what we are experiencing right now? And how keeping Dorito and Golden's philosophy would work?

Butch's teams lost 3 or more games his first 5 seasons.

Nobody is complaining about losses...........

 

[Canes2082]

are you saying we can't determine there is a problem with the defense until the 2016 season?

jesus christ i hope the people that are in the decision making positions don't agree.

Exactly.

Golden's timeline keeps getting pushed further and further.

"We won't know until the 2014 class is physically read to play." Kiss my ****ing ***.

Really glad school administrations aren't as stupid and as fickle or as fair weather as the Miami Hurricanes E-fan base.

Problem is a majority of these fans became fans in the early 2000's when things were going really good. Now they sit on the computer all day and watch canesfreak2001's videos and think POOF we should automatically be like the team of the early 2000's

Nobody is dumb enough to think we'd become national title contenders in two years. All we want is to put a respectable defense on the field. Defense is supposed to be Golden's background, right? So why does it look as ****ty as it has?

No, we don't have elite players, but neither does GT, Wake, UNC (aside from Ebron) or VT and they did whatever they wanted to against us. Is it too much to ask for a respectable defense. A defense in the 50s and continuously falling isn't respectable and it's not OK to accept how bad it is.

You say we're jaded because we became fans in the early 2000s when Miami was elite and have unrealistic expectations. I say you're jaded because you watched Coker and Shannon for a decade and somewhere along the way being mediocre became ho-hum and acceptable.

OK A Couple Things Here:

1. Did I ever call you out specifically and say, ' Ridler80 lives in the early 2000's and watches canesfreak2001's videos all day?? No I did not. What I did say is the problem is a lot of people did become fans around that time and think things will magically change overnight

2. I dont not accept mediocrity one bit, however I am a realist and I see what has gone on with this program. I remember back in the mid 90's when we were under probation. I saw this team rise back up and you know what the same thing that happened then is happening now, but we need a little patience.

3. You say im jaded because I watched Coker and Shannon for a decade. I laughed my *** off because what you just failed to realize is that why you are trying to bash them as coaches you basically just admitted that they were better than this current staff. Yes or No? You or I could have coached the early 2000 teams to a national championship thats how much TALENT there was and DEPTH there was on those rosters. Which brings me to the next thing

4. Talent and Depth. Do we have it all right now? Yes and No. When you look back I say AG has had only 2 recruiting classes because the first one was piece mealed together at the last minute. For anyone who says the NCAA crap didnt play a part in it is wrong because it did. While we did get some really good players there were a bunch who went elsewhere. A poster said this earlier and I will restate it. Guys like Tracy, Deon, McCord, should have been redshirted last year, but we couldnt because we did not have DEPTH. They were thrown to the fire and for the most part held their own. This year should be the first year there seeing the field....but we didnt have the luxury of doing that because we had and were left with NO DEPTH. People look at Va Tech, did you see they had all redshirt seniors, juniors or sophs playing on the D with the exception of 1 freshmen I believe.

Unfortuntly Ridler80 many Canes fans do have unrealistic expectations, I hear it all the time. Until we fix a few things we have to temper our expectations

 

[sebastian91]

Randy was left with less than Golden was.

our players never seemed to have a problem adjusting.

The recruiting classes before Randy became HC were good, ...Add to that players were continually leaving early for the draft.

So why are the defenders giving a pass to the staff for 5 years when Randy, the HC, got 3 before the seat got hot?

Randy was left with less than Golden was, but Randy had guys who were good enough to leave early and be 1st round picks, and the recruiting classes were good before Randy? You are contradicting yourself, and there's no way that Randy had less than Golden.

The players under Randy had no problem adjusting? Did you watch those teams?

Randy was on the hot seat because he had no QBs other than Morris, no CBs other than McGee, no DL, no LBs...he put all of his eggs in the 2008 class basket, and they ***** the bed. That class landed in his lap, and he got complacent with recruiting depth, ****ed off all of the local coaches, couldn't manage the clock, couldn't keep his staff together...

 

[NVA CANE]

So when this monster 2014 recruiting class comes in, I have a feeling you guys are going to tell us, well they are true freshmen so lets wait until they develop and then we can judge Dorito and the defensive scheme over all. So I have to wait until 2016 to get a fair assessment from the "its the lack of talent" folks before we can know for sure that Golden's defensive scheme is garbage.

The odd thing is, this very same team went through the same exact situation 15 or so years ago. Butch Davis had a defensive coordinator that had the miami defense ranked in the 60s and 80s (per vish's article). And you know what Butch Davis did? He fired his guy and brought in Schiano and the improvement was immediate. You have history telling you exactly what needs to happen and yet you guys are dismissing it. And butch had sanctions on him that were more severe than Goldens. So please explain to me how the Butch scenario is so different from what we are experiencing right now? And how keeping Dorito and Golden's philosophy would work?

Butch's teams lost 3 or more games his first 5 seasons.

Nobody is complaining about losses...........

This. These ******s are always changing the argument. No one is talking about losses. We are talking about defensive performance. And ours is **** and has been **** for 3 years running.

 

[sebastian91]

So when this monster 2014 recruiting class comes in, I have a feeling you guys are going to tell us, well they are true freshmen so lets wait until they develop and then we can judge Dorito and the defensive scheme over all. So I have to wait until 2016 to get a fair assessment from the "its the lack of talent" folks before we can know for sure that Golden's defensive scheme is garbage.

The odd thing is, this very same team went through the same exact situation 15 or so years ago. Butch Davis had a defensive coordinator that had the miami defense ranked in the 60s and 80s (per vish's article). And you know what Butch Davis did? He fired his guy and brought in Schiano and the improvement was immediate. You have history telling you exactly what needs to happen and yet you guys are dismissing it. And butch had sanctions on him that were more severe than Goldens. So please explain to me how the Butch scenario is so different from what we are experiencing right now? And how keeping Dorito and Golden's philosophy would work?

Butch's teams lost 3 or more games his first 5 seasons.

Nobody is complaining about losses...........

I actually agree that the Butch comparison is valid, but we seem to forget that it took Butch 5 full seasons to clean up the mess left by Erickson. He methodically amassed talent and depth. The results on AG aren't in yet, but it certainly looks to me like AG is following the Butch model more so than the Randy Shannon model. I'll take that, and I'll give him time to get this thing fixed.

 

[NVA CANE]

So when this monster 2014 recruiting class comes in, I have a feeling you guys are going to tell us, well they are true freshmen so lets wait until they develop and then we can judge Dorito and the defensive scheme over all. So I have to wait until 2016 to get a fair assessment from the "its the lack of talent" folks before we can know for sure that Golden's defensive scheme is garbage.

The odd thing is, this very same team went through the same exact situation 15 or so years ago. Butch Davis had a defensive coordinator that had the miami defense ranked in the 60s and 80s (per vish's article). And you know what Butch Davis did? He fired his guy and brought in Schiano and the improvement was immediate. You have history telling you exactly what needs to happen and yet you guys are dismissing it. And butch had sanctions on him that were more severe than Goldens. So please explain to me how the Butch scenario is so different from what we are experiencing right now? And how keeping Dorito and Golden's philosophy would work?

Butch's teams lost 3 or more games his first 5 seasons.

Nobody is complaining about losses...........

I actually agree that the Butch comparison is valid, but we seem to forget that it took Butch 5 full seasons to clean up the mess left by Erickson. He methodically amassed talent and depth. The results on AG aren't in yet, but it certainly looks to me like AG is following the Butch model more so than the Randy Shannon model. I'll take that, and I'll give him time to get this thing fixed.

I agree here with one caveat. If he follows the Butch model and fires dorito then I think we will be in great shape. But that is the key for Golden to be successful here IMO

 

[sebastian91]

So when this monster 2014 recruiting class comes in, I have a feeling you guys are going to tell us, well they are true freshmen so lets wait until they develop and then we can judge Dorito and the defensive scheme over all. So I have to wait until 2016 to get a fair assessment from the "its the lack of talent" folks before we can know for sure that Golden's defensive scheme is garbage.

The odd thing is, this very same team went through the same exact situation 15 or so years ago. Butch Davis had a defensive coordinator that had the miami defense ranked in the 60s and 80s (per vish's article). And you know what Butch Davis did? He fired his guy and brought in Schiano and the improvement was immediate. You have history telling you exactly what needs to happen and yet you guys are dismissing it. And butch had sanctions on him that were more severe than Goldens. So please explain to me how the Butch scenario is so different from what we are experiencing right now? And how keeping Dorito and Golden's philosophy would work?

Butch's teams lost 3 or more games his first 5 seasons.

Nobody is complaining about losses...........

I actually agree that the Butch comparison is valid, but we seem to forget that it took Butch 5 full seasons to clean up the mess left by Erickson. He methodically amassed talent and depth. The results on AG aren't in yet, but it certainly looks to me like AG is following the Butch model more so than the Randy Shannon model. I'll take that, and I'll give him time to get this thing fixed.

I agree here with one caveat. If he follows the Butch model and fires dorito then I think we will be in great shape. But that is the key for Golden to be successful here IMO

My point in responding to your post with the fact that Butch lost 3 or more games for his first 5 seasons was meant to show that patience is key. This fanbase flew banners calling for Butch to be fired; meanwhile, he was putting together the most incredible roster ever seen in college football (in my biased opinion). Butch took over a dumpster fire and turned it into something amazing. Randy took over a dumpster fire and set the rest of the city on fire. AG took over a city in flames and has to put that fire out one block at a time. That has to take time. What AG does with D'Onofrio, who knows. I don't see him firing Coach D, so that leaves us with the hope that AG's recruiting catches up to the scheme. Time will tell, but that's what we're left with. I don't like the performance of the defense either, but demanding something that is a long shot at best to happen is just spinning wheels.

 

[Bicho]

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/11/15/3754272/miami-hurricanes-focus-centered.html

This article basically sums up this whole thread