For those who want to rush this thing

[RiDLer80]

I know exactly what's staring me in the face, and I fully accept it. A mediocre team with mediocre, but improving, talent and a coaching staff that needs to get better.

Didn't you tell me earlier in this thread that you didn't accept mediocrity? Now what's this?

 

[sebastian91]

I know exactly what's staring me in the face, and I fully accept it. A mediocre team with mediocre, but improving, talent and a coaching staff that needs to get better.

Didn't you tell me earlier in this thread that you didn't accept mediocrity? Now what's this?

I accept that we ARE mediocre now (what choice do I or anyone else have????). I do not accept that that's where we will stay (freaking duh). What a 'tard.

 

[poncho0091]

I'm expecting a defense that I feel comfortable that we have a chance to make a stop.

Based on WHAT? The awesome defense we put out last year? The numerous 5th year NFL-bound studs populating our DL? Or maybe the incredibly dynamic LBs we have starting? Thank goodness AJ came back for another year so that you can expect a defense you feel comfortable with!!!!!

No based on the fact that we are in year 3. His first class was not a gem by any means, but it was still a top 40 class. Those players are Jr now. The sophomore class was #9. It's not like Randy's guys are complete scrubs. They might not be superstars, but they are not exactly the kind of guys that end up at FAU, or Ball st or wherever else. Do we have holes, yes, but lets not act like we have nothing. We have enough talent to not make Logan Thomas into Peyton Manning.

I love how you try to make it simple as saying if you are not an NFL bound stud, you have no talent. Do you have any idea how many guys look decent in college and don't make it to the pros? Maybe you can tell me about how high profile recruits and how many NFL bound studs Wake Forest, UCF, East Carolina, Western Kentucky, Bowling Green, Baylor, and Iowa recruit. All of these teams are higher than us in yds/g given up, and that is with our early season boost where we didnt play a worthwhile passing team for the first 5 games of the season. They have mostly 2 and 3 star guys as a top 30 defense in yds/gm, but we cant make 4 star guys in decent defender, even the Randy leftovers.

 

[Big Sky Cane]

i still cant believe there were no commits and no scheduled visits when golden took over.

i had heard it before, but reading the OP reminded me.

cot **** that's brutal.

I mean.....really? What the **** was that beatoffs plan?

 

[poncho0091]

considering what we have on this team

Please elaborate.

As I said, this team is full of 3 and 4 star players. Is that enough to make us elite, no, but we have enough just to be capable and we have shown that we are not capable on defense. We recruit better talent than most of our opponents. If our coaches are not evaluating correctly or are not developing them, then that is on the coaches.

No! We have enough to win some, and lose some...be consistently inconsistent. The kids recruited and evaluated by THIS staff are freshmen and sophs (2013 and 2012 classes). The 2011 class was basically lost. Most of the kids they inherited from Randy aren't good, and THOSE are the upperclassmen on this team...the leaders...the ones with experience...THAT's why this defense sucks. What a bunch of shallow-minded dolts around here! If you want instant freaking gratification, go fire up a rock with Rob Ford. If you want a decent Miami team, then you're going to have to take a chill pill and be patient. Coach D is not going anywhere, no matter how many message board porsters call for his head because they have no capability for logical thought. Take it or freaking leave it, but that's reality.

That's right, we have enough to win some and lose some. We have enough to stop scrub teams offenses like WF and VT. We don't have enough to stop good teams like FSU and Clemson. We have no recruited worse than 36th in the last 5 years, including the lost 2011 recruiting class. That is reality. Its so funny because you wanted instant gratification from Shannon by people having him on the hot seat after year 3, but in your reality, instant gratification only counts when you want to use it.

Shannon earned his way out by not producing on the field, and Golden deserves more time because of the Shapiro thing, but lets be realistic that Golden has been here long enough that our defense should not be this bad, and he's been here long enough that at a bare minimum, doubters have a legitimate argument.

 

[sebastian91]

No, they don't have a legit argument...yet. The recruiting rankings mean nothing. Reality is that the 2011 class was full of 'bodies'. Reality is that Shannon left the cupboard bare. Reality is that Shannon basically quit recruiting after the 2008 class. Reality is that we have almost no upperclassmen that are 'Miami caliber' (whatever the fug that means anymore). We do not have enough to beat F$U and Clemson...that's for sure. We have enough to win some and lose some to the rest of the similarly mediocre teams in the ACC, which is exactly what we've seen. We beat Wake and UNC, we lost to VT (the offense had a LOT to do with how all of those games went, by the way).

You want the defense to be better than it is in year 3, but there's no reason to expect that other than 'it's year 3'. Everything else (the lack of talent in upperclassmen, the massive holes left to be filled throughout the defense, the knuckleheads who are gone, the historically horrible defense last year) would lead a logical person to expect that this defense would struggle again. I expect them to be better this year than last year when it's all said and done, and I expect them to be better next year than this year. That is a reasonable expectation.

As for Shannon and instant gratification...I did not start to give up on him until after F$U in his 4th season. I gave him a lot more time than most did, and I was clearly wrong to do so.

 

[The Franchise]

The facts are that it took Butch 5 full seasons to fix the mess Erickson left him. He went 5-6 in his 3rd season. It can be argued that the program Golden took over is as bad as the one Butch took over, if not worse. This fanbase flew banners calling for Butch to be fired. They were wrong. Thus, there's a pretty good chance that this fanbase is wrong now.

A big reason the fan base was sour with Davis was because we had a miserable defense with Bill Miller. Had Davis acted quicker in firing Miller and replacing him with a competent DC, then it probably wouldn't have taken him 5 years to get the thing turned around. And if you think for a minute that the fans unrest and the admins growing impatience with Davis had nothing to do with forcing his hand to fire Miller, then you weren't paying very close attention.

 

[Big Sky Cane]

The facts are that it took Butch 5 full seasons to fix the mess Erickson left him. He went 5-6 in his 3rd season. It can be argued that the program Golden took over is as bad as the one Butch took over, if not worse. This fanbase flew banners calling for Butch to be fired. They were wrong. Thus, there's a pretty good chance that this fanbase is wrong now.

A big reason the fan base was sour with Davis was because we had a miserable defense with Bill Miller. Had Davis acted quicker in firing Miller and replacing him with a competent DC, then it probably wouldn't have taken him 5 years to get the thing turned around. And if you think for a minute that the fans unrest and the admins growing impatience with Davis had nothing to do with forcing his hand to fire Miller, then you weren't paying very close attention.

So Bill Miller sucked and then went straight to your hero (and mine) Nick Sabans Mich. St. team and was D coord. there?

 

[Big Sky Cane]

I just want to post Saban's record at Michigan St. and LSU for everyone to chew on.

1995 Michigan State 6–5–1
1996 Michigan State 6–6
1997 Michigan State 7–5
1998 Michigan State 6–6
1999 Michigan State 9–2*


LSU Tigers (2000–2004)

2000 LSU 8–4
2001 LSU 10–3
2002 LSU 8–5
2003 LSU 13–1
2004 LSU 9–3

 

[Hurricane Rob]

The facts are that it took Butch 5 full seasons to fix the mess Erickson left him. He went 5-6 in his 3rd season. It can be argued that the program Golden took over is as bad as the one Butch took over, if not worse. This fanbase flew banners calling for Butch to be fired. They were wrong. Thus, there's a pretty good chance that this fanbase is wrong now.

A big reason the fan base was sour with Davis was because we had a miserable defense with Bill Miller. Had Davis acted quicker in firing Miller and replacing him with a competent DC, then it probably wouldn't have taken him 5 years to get the thing turned around. And if you think for a minute that the fans unrest and the admins growing impatience with Davis had nothing to do with forcing his hand to fire Miller, then you weren't paying very close attention.

Is that a **** you stuck in coach "D"s mouth in your avatar? Really? who would take you serious punk? Not any real cane fan!

 

[Dan E. Dangerously]

^It's probably my favorite avatar on the whole site

 

[sebastian91]

The facts are that it took Butch 5 full seasons to fix the mess Erickson left him. He went 5-6 in his 3rd season. It can be argued that the program Golden took over is as bad as the one Butch took over, if not worse. This fanbase flew banners calling for Butch to be fired. They were wrong. Thus, there's a pretty good chance that this fanbase is wrong now.

A big reason the fan base was sour with Davis was because we had a miserable defense with Bill Miller. Had Davis acted quicker in firing Miller and replacing him with a competent DC, then it probably wouldn't have taken him 5 years to get the thing turned around. And if you think for a minute that the fans unrest and the admins growing impatience with Davis had nothing to do with forcing his hand to fire Miller, then you weren't paying very close attention.

So Bill Miller sucked and then went straight to your hero (and mine) Nick Sabans Mich. St. team and was D coord. there?

For 4 years...

 

[Rdcane]

A dream came into my head tonight. Ray Lewis, the new defensive coordinator of the Miami Hurricanes. One can only dream. **** just coach the linebackers, or even recruit! Can you tell me if a kid listens to this dude talk about football at the University of Miami one can deny him?

Leadership is spell R-A-Y L-E-W-I-S. ****, just pay him to come give a speech on Saturday and Monday mornings, I don't care. No other program has this man to inspire them.

 

[Big Sky Cane]

The facts are that it took Butch 5 full seasons to fix the mess Erickson left him. He went 5-6 in his 3rd season. It can be argued that the program Golden took over is as bad as the one Butch took over, if not worse. This fanbase flew banners calling for Butch to be fired. They were wrong. Thus, there's a pretty good chance that this fanbase is wrong now.

A big reason the fan base was sour with Davis was because we had a miserable defense with Bill Miller. Had Davis acted quicker in firing Miller and replacing him with a competent DC, then it probably wouldn't have taken him 5 years to get the thing turned around. And if you think for a minute that the fans unrest and the admins growing impatience with Davis had nothing to do with forcing his hand to fire Miller, then you weren't paying very close attention.

So Bill Miller sucked and then went straight to your hero (and mine) Nick Sabans Mich. St. team and was D coord. there?

For 4 years...

Actually our argument looks weaker now because he was only D-coord. there for one year under Saban. Nick left him behind when he went to LSU and he stayed as D-Coord. under Bobby Williams. It still says something that he hired him in the first place but it also says something that he hasn't coached with Nick since that year.

 

[SmokeyRone]

Another thread that leads to the same place a hundred others already have gone before.

Hope the coaches fix this leaking defense this weekend to end the madness.

We hold a bad Duke offense to 300 yards, (they had under 150 total against VT, Duke is inpet) and people will say "see! It's not Dorito!"

Sorry, but holding Duke to over their average yards per game is NOT a standard that means anything.

 

[The Franchise]

The facts are that it took Butch 5 full seasons to fix the mess Erickson left him. He went 5-6 in his 3rd season. It can be argued that the program Golden took over is as bad as the one Butch took over, if not worse. This fanbase flew banners calling for Butch to be fired. They were wrong. Thus, there's a pretty good chance that this fanbase is wrong now.

A big reason the fan base was sour with Davis was because we had a miserable defense with Bill Miller. Had Davis acted quicker in firing Miller and replacing him with a competent DC, then it probably wouldn't have taken him 5 years to get the thing turned around. And if you think for a minute that the fans unrest and the admins growing impatience with Davis had nothing to do with forcing his hand to fire Miller, then you weren't paying very close attention.

So Bill Miller sucked and then went straight to your hero (and mine) Nick Sabans Mich. St. team and was D coord. there?

What happened to Bill Miller with Saban? Was that his last stop as a DC, and he retired a defensive legend as the top DC in the land? Or did he wind up bouncing around to a hundred various ****** jobs after getting ran out of town with Bobby Williams at Michigan State when Saban didn't take him to LSU?

 

[The Franchise]

The facts are that it took Butch 5 full seasons to fix the mess Erickson left him. He went 5-6 in his 3rd season. It can be argued that the program Golden took over is as bad as the one Butch took over, if not worse. This fanbase flew banners calling for Butch to be fired. They were wrong. Thus, there's a pretty good chance that this fanbase is wrong now.

A big reason the fan base was sour with Davis was because we had a miserable defense with Bill Miller. Had Davis acted quicker in firing Miller and replacing him with a competent DC, then it probably wouldn't have taken him 5 years to get the thing turned around. And if you think for a minute that the fans unrest and the admins growing impatience with Davis had nothing to do with forcing his hand to fire Miller, then you weren't paying very close attention.

So Bill Miller sucked and then went straight to your hero (and mine) Nick Sabans Mich. St. team and was D coord. there?

For 4 years...

LULZ. Actually for 1 year with Saban. Saban then went to LSU and didn't take Miller with him because he knew Miller was a retread. Miller stayed at MSU and got fired a couple years later. He then bounced around to a hundred and one ****** gigs including Western Michigan.

 

[Big Sky Cane]

LULZ. Actually for 1 year with Saban. Saban then went to LSU and didn't take Miller with him because he knew Miller was a retread. Miller stayed at MSU and got fired a couple years later. He then bounced around to a hundred and one ****** gigs including Western Michigan.

I acknowledged that in the post above:

Actually our argument looks weaker now because he was only D-coord. there for one year under Saban. Nick left him behind when he went to LSU and he stayed as D-Coord. under Bobby Williams. It still says something that he hired him in the first place but it also says something that he hasn't coached with Nick since that year.

I'm still not sure if firing Miller was the trigger that allowed the D to turn around. Like Al, Butch was a defensive mind, so IMO like you said he got pressure from the admin. to change. Hard to believe that the defense ran independent of Butch under Miller or Schiano.

Chise, do you remember any drastic philosophical change under Schiano that was absent under Miller or was it more of a result of the players maturing?