For those who want to rush this thing

[NVA CANE]

With all the young guys that will be needed to contribute on defense, is next year another rebuilding season?

Yes it is. They will be true freshman and if we are slightly better then it will be said we have to wait one more year.

 

[poncho0091]

Randy was left with less than Golden was.

our players never seemed to have a problem adjusting.

The recruiting classes before Randy became HC were good, ...Add to that players were continually leaving early for the draft.

So why are the defenders giving a pass to the staff for 5 years when Randy, the HC, got 3 before the seat got hot?

Randy was left with less than Golden was, but Randy had guys who were good enough to leave early and be 1st round picks, and the recruiting classes were good before Randy? You are contradicting yourself, and there's no way that Randy had less than Golden.

The players under Randy had no problem adjusting? Did you watch those teams?

Randy was on the hot seat because he had no QBs other than Morris, no CBs other than McGee, no DL, no LBs...he put all of his eggs in the 2008 class basket, and they ***** the bed. That class landed in his lap, and he got complacent with recruiting depth, ****ed off all of the local coaches, couldn't manage the clock, couldn't keep his staff together...

Thanks for trying to take things our of context.

1. I never said Randy had a bunch of 1st round talent. I said those recruiting classes before Randy produced first round talent that left early which created depth issues. The biggest problem our defense had when Randy took over was depth which is why I said Randy was left with nothing. There was some talent, but the backups were nothing and our starters would get gassed quick because we would go 3 and out so much starting Freeman and Wright while Patrick Nix was our OC. Golden was left with some solid guys, many from that 08 class. Spence was solid, Washington was considered a projected 1st rounder until Golden moved him (square peg round hole), Streeter on limited experience turned out decent on the college level, Miller was a beast for us, James was a good RB, Vernon was good (suspension killed him), Hurns (not a standout yet), Henderson, Buchanon, and Ray Ray (another ******, but he had talent).

2. Our total defense under Randy was in the top 40 every year he coached so yea considering they had to learn a new defense nearly every year, they managed pretty well. Have you watched our team the last 2 years? Nothing has changed in our defense and they might actually be getting worse.

3. I can agree that all of those points should be why he was on the hot seat, but ultimately what got him on the hot seat was our offense regressed after 2010 and we weren't winning. Right now Golden's defense looks nearly the same as last year and we started 7-0, but what happens if we finish 7-5 or even 8-4? Before the season started, most of us had these last 3 games pegged as wins, now people are afraid we might actually lose them.

1. What did Randy leave Golden behind those (very) few talented guys, many of whom were gone after the first year? Golden had to go get a Wake reject just so he could have a CB to play. This year, he had to get a gimpy, retired Wisconsin castoff and a JAG from UVa just to be able to even have a DL rotation. Ray Ray was awful, Buchanon a JAG, Henderson a mental case, no LB depth. Washington was moved out of necessity, wasn't a hard worker, and a mental case.

2. For those better defense stats under Randy, he sure didn't win very many games. Something has changed in our defense the last 2 years. There is actually talent in the underclassmen, there are actually some competitions for PT, there are actually some opportunities to start redshirting kids who aren't physically or mentally ready...most importantly, the lack of talent in the upperclassmen will be replaced on the roster by an outstanding (at least on paper) recruiting class.

3. Why would anyone peg these last 3 games as wins? We aren't any better than those teams. That kind of expectation certainly couldn't be based on last year's team, or the prospects of the soon-to-be-senior and junior classes suddenly becoming talented. That kind of expectation is based on one thing...we are Miami, and we won 6 MNC's a long time ago. Bama, USC, Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Michigan, Notre Lame...all of those historical powers have gone through extended periods of mediocrity in recent years, where they were no better than the middle of the road conference teams they were losing to or beating on occasion. That's where we are now. We are a middle of the road team playing in a BCS AQ conference. We are going to win some games we shouldn't win, and lose some games we shouldn't lose. It sucks. Butch lost 3 or more games his first 5 seasons...in the Big East! He didn't turn things around in 3 seasons (he was 5-6 his 3rd season), and we can't expect anything different now.

Again, thanks for missing what I said.

1. I never said Golden was left with a ton of talent. I said Randy was left with less.

2. We had a better defense, but our offense was nearly as bad under Randy as our defense has been under the current staff. That's why we still lost games. Everyone is complaining about this offense including myself (only some stuff for me), but I'll take this offense over what we had with Randy.

3. I'm not putting these last 3 games as wins because we won anything before. I and many others put them as a win because we beat Duke last year (barely because of our defense), we should have beat UVA last year if not for our defense, and Pitt is less than average in the ACC as indicated by their current conference record of 2-3 and overall of 5-4.

Now our defense last year can't get a whole lot worse than it was, so most truly expected our defense would get better and our offense would be better or at least close to what they did last year. Duke has gotten better, but if our defense had gotten better, and our offense maintained, this would not be a concern. UVA is much worse than last year (thats bad when you were only a 4 win team the previous year and yet as a 4 win team they beat us). Since we obviously have not gotten better, them getting worse doesn't mean a whole lot yet. Pitt, who knows, but seriously there is no way we should lose to them, and yet we might.

You want to call us a middle of the road BCS team, then fine, but I expect middle of the road teams to beat the bottom dwellers, and I expect many others do too, so yes I'm sure most had those 3 pegged as wins prior to the season.

 

[poncho0091]

Also, I'd like to say, my post is not about me supporting Shannon or wanting Golden to get fired. I like Al, and believe with success, he would stay a Cane for awhile. My post is just meant to point out Shannon was already getting heavy heat in year 3. He tried to change coordinators, and fix what he could, even if ultimately he burned a lot of bridges and played favorites too much. Golden is married to Dnofrio and for better or worse as Dno goes, Golden will go. The problem I have is everyone is going to sit on this talent thing until as some have said 2016. Are you ******* serious? The shapiro thing did hurt us in recruiting and we missed a few big prospects, but guess what people, Golden had some **** good classes still even with the Shapiro thing, so its not like he recruited 80 ranked classes and it will take us time to get some more talent. We are already getting the talent and most of those guys will be Jr. and Sr. next year. If we don't win the coastal next year, my opinion of the entire staff will sour.

As far as Butch goes, yea he had to stockpile talent, but more importantly, Butch developed the talent. I don't know what the recruiting class rankings were when Butch was recruiting, but I doubt they'd be what Golden is getting. While the punishment for this Shapiro thing is worse than what we got back then, I don't think the impact on recruiting was as bad as when Butch was here. Again, Golden lost some stud 5 star guys, but he still pulled top classes. Do we have to have a team full of 5 stars to be competitive?

 

[DeadPoets]

So now Perryman, Porter and Chickillo are MAC level players?

Maybe these guys look terrible because the DC doesn't know what he's doing? Curtis Porter was a good player even as a true freshman. His only issue has been health. I don't know what they are asking him to do but nowadays I forget he even plays.

To all those who feel talent is the core issue, how did Olivier Vernon (NFL starter) look when he played on this defense? Their first year we had Ojomo, Vernon, Robinson, Regis, a couple games from Forston, and our Dline was mediocre. Those guys weren't 2 stars and were on a defense that led the nation in TFL's and sacks the year before. In Golden's first year, every single veteran guy on the Dline regressed with Chickillo being the only bright spot.

We have some highly rated guys coming in but I doubt we'll see much of a change. Chickillo, McCord, Kirby, AQM, and Hamilton had offers from everyone and were top recruits too. Still very early with Muhammad but the rest have yet to make an impact playing in this defense.

Correct. And the excuse has been that the kids don't fit the new system.

 

[L A M P]

With all the young guys that will be needed to contribute on defense, is next year another rebuilding season?

Assuming the LB play improves (as a unit it should despite losing DP) I think the D will be much improved next year.. Very good secondary, better pass rush, more talent on the field.. We are still rebuilding though. With a first year starter at QB I expect results similar to this season (record wise). I think we make a huge jump Duke/Tracy's senior season.

 

[L A M P]

I said Randy was left with less.

 

[GrozDozer]

Point of this thread being the team is 7-2 and ranked. Under the circumstances that's pretty impressive.

This is what 7-2 looks like. if the defense was better the team would be 8-1 with a loss to FSU because they have elite talent and depth all over.

all the other teams with 2 losses and ranked around where miami is have warts too. Either terrible defense or offense or a mix of both.

Talent of defense sucks, there's a variety of reasons for that but its the current reality.

LMAO, of our 7 wins which one is truly a quality win? The divide between us and our rival upstate has grown with Golden at the helm the last 3 years.

The gap SEEMS TO have grown because Jimbo has been the head coach for 5 years and has his players fully integrated into HIS system. Top it off that he has arguably the best QB in the country and it's easy to call it a huge gap. The first 2 years under Golden the "gap" was the closest we've been to FSU since 2008.

 

[sebastian91]

Our last 4 recruiting classes averaged 19th best in the country. Yet people are claiming only one of our players would start on a MAC defense, and other crazy ramblings.

Some of you are swooning so hard over Golden's slick talk that you're delirious. It's terrifying.

People are pacing around in all white robes holding candles in the Golden cult - won't listen to reasoning. Their families and friends are crying for them to come home, but they just look up with a blank stare and mutter - "this is my home now." "The savoir will lead us to enlightenment in 5 years; it's a process."

Wake up. You guys are losing it. Making excuses as to why we're giving up half a thousand yards to any team that can stand upright without puking on itself. **** is embarrassing.

Stockholm Syndrome.

Send your fire AG email to Donna, quit your Hurricane Club membership, quit going to the games, fly a Fire AG banner...

You guys have a misconception that an unwavering support of an under-performing coaching staff is what makes you a fan. It's not.

Yeah...what makes a 'fan'? Fanatic = a person marked or motivated by an extreme, unreasoning enthusiasm, as for a cause. (or a sports team). So, I won't see you in that morgue of a stadium for the UVa game with all of the other 'fans'?

Difference between being a fan and too ****in stupid at what is staring you in the face yet you refuse to accept it.

I know exactly what's staring me in the face, and I fully accept it. A mediocre team with mediocre, but improving, talent and a coaching staff that needs to get better.

 

[I'm Hurt Dawg]

Hilarious that when Golden was recruiting 2 and 3 star recruits, everyone was like trust Al Golden, "he has an eye for talent". He turned no star Wilkerson into a 1st rounder. Now he can't turn our 2,3,4,5 stars into players that can stop ******* Logan Thomas.

 

[sebastian91]

It wasn't Shannon who recruited and brought in Ricardo Williams, Jalen Grimble, Daruis Smith, Corey King, Earl Moore, Dwayne Hoilett, Jacoby Briscoe, and Daquan Ivery. All Golden guys who have done nothing here. Golden brought in a castoff and a JAG this year because of poor recruiting.

Also, we all knew how much we needed help inside and we only brought in 2 DL recruits in 2013 and not a single tackle.

Shannon gave AG no choice but to bring in a lot of those guys. Randy hadn't done any recruiting before he left. A lot of those guys were bodies brought in at the last minute because Randy left NOTHING. Grimble was a 5* IIRC. Moore is a true soph who was rushed, but AG needs him to develop quickly. Hoilett is a RS frosh. Corey King --- soph. Ivery --- RS frosh or soph (?). Not sure what you expect from these guys. Some of them are going to be misses; hopefully, a few of them hit. Kinda early to label them as busts. The criticism of not bringing in enough DT's the last few classes is valid. It wasn't for a lack of trying, though. I think AG put his eggs in too few baskets on the DT's. When those fell through, he was left holding the bag a bit. It looks to me like he learned his lesson and isn't waiting on SoFla divas anymore.

 

[sebastian91]

Also, I'd like to say, my post is not about me supporting Shannon or wanting Golden to get fired. I like Al, and believe with success, he would stay a Cane for awhile. My post is just meant to point out Shannon was already getting heavy heat in year 3. He tried to change coordinators, and fix what he could, even if ultimately he burned a lot of bridges and played favorites too much. Golden is married to Dnofrio and for better or worse as Dno goes, Golden will go. The problem I have is everyone is going to sit on this talent thing until as some have said 2016. Are you ****ing serious? The shapiro thing did hurt us in recruiting and we missed a few big prospects, but guess what people, Golden had some **** good classes still even with the Shapiro thing, so its not like he recruited 80 ranked classes and it will take us time to get some more talent. We are already getting the talent and most of those guys will be Jr. and Sr. next year. If we don't win the coastal next year, my opinion of the entire staff will sour.

As far as Butch goes, yea he had to stockpile talent, but more importantly, Butch developed the talent. I don't know what the recruiting class rankings were when Butch was recruiting, but I doubt they'd be what Golden is getting. While the punishment for this Shapiro thing is worse than what we got back then, I don't think the impact on recruiting was as bad as when Butch was here. Again, Golden lost some stud 5 star guys, but he still pulled top classes. Do we have to have a team full of 5 stars to be competitive?

Who said we have to have all 5*'s? We have to have talent, depth, and competition for PT. We had none of those things when AG took over. We now have better talent (but it's young), we have better depth, and we at least have some competition for PT. You can spin the Butch vs. Golden thing all you want. The facts are that it took Butch 5 full seasons to fix the mess Erickson left him. He went 5-6 in his 3rd season. It can be argued that the program Golden took over is as bad as the one Butch took over, if not worse. This fanbase flew banners calling for Butch to be fired. They were wrong. Thus, there's a pretty good chance that this fanbase is wrong now.

 

[poncho0091]

Also, I'd like to say, my post is not about me supporting Shannon or wanting Golden to get fired. I like Al, and believe with success, he would stay a Cane for awhile. My post is just meant to point out Shannon was already getting heavy heat in year 3. He tried to change coordinators, and fix what he could, even if ultimately he burned a lot of bridges and played favorites too much. Golden is married to Dnofrio and for better or worse as Dno goes, Golden will go. The problem I have is everyone is going to sit on this talent thing until as some have said 2016. Are you ****ing serious? The shapiro thing did hurt us in recruiting and we missed a few big prospects, but guess what people, Golden had some **** good classes still even with the Shapiro thing, so its not like he recruited 80 ranked classes and it will take us time to get some more talent. We are already getting the talent and most of those guys will be Jr. and Sr. next year. If we don't win the coastal next year, my opinion of the entire staff will sour.

As far as Butch goes, yea he had to stockpile talent, but more importantly, Butch developed the talent. I don't know what the recruiting class rankings were when Butch was recruiting, but I doubt they'd be what Golden is getting. While the punishment for this Shapiro thing is worse than what we got back then, I don't think the impact on recruiting was as bad as when Butch was here. Again, Golden lost some stud 5 star guys, but he still pulled top classes. Do we have to have a team full of 5 stars to be competitive?

Who said we have to have all 5*'s? We have to have talent, depth, and competition for PT. We had none of those things when AG took over. We now have better talent (but it's young), we have better depth, and we at least have some competition for PT. You can spin the Butch vs. Golden thing all you want. The facts are that it took Butch 5 full seasons to fix the mess Erickson left him. He went 5-6 in his 3rd season. It can be argued that the program Golden took over is as bad as the one Butch took over, if not worse. This fanbase flew banners calling for Butch to be fired. They were wrong. Thus, there's a pretty good chance that this fanbase is wrong now.

We shall see. Like I said, I'm not expecting a title anytime soon, but considering what we have on this team and what we face in the ACC, there is no excuse for our defense to be eaten alive like it is right now. Again, I'm not expecting the best defense in the country this early, but after 3 years, I'm expecting a defense that I feel comfortable that we have a chance to make a stop. Last year in all of our close games, I felt like if left more than 30 seconds on the clock, we were going to lose the game. This year I don't feel much different, except I feel like we can stop a run only team, but if a team dares to pass on us, we are like helpless children. When I feel like our defense is even capable of stopping opponents whether they pass or run and we can get off the field well enough on 3rd downs, my complaints will stop. Is that too much to ask?

 

[Bigtip]

this defense has been hot garbage from day 1. we get outcoached by every OC in the ACC. pathetic.

I will not invest a single **** in this team until there are wholesale changes on defense. every one of the defensive side of the ball should be fired except for maybe Barrow (due to recruiting)

 

[L A M P]

considering what we have on this team

Please elaborate.

 

[poncho0091]

Who said we have to have all 5*'s? We have to have talent, depth, and competition for PT. We had none of those things when AG took over. We now have better talent (but it's young), we have better depth, and we at least have some competition for PT. You can spin the Butch vs. Golden thing all you want. The facts are that it took Butch 5 full seasons to fix the mess Erickson left him. He went 5-6 in his 3rd season. It can be argued that the program Golden took over is as bad as the one Butch took over, if not worse. This fanbase flew banners calling for Butch to be fired. They were wrong. Thus, there's a pretty good chance that this fanbase is wrong now.

The problem is we have plenty of 3 and 4 star guys sprinkled in with the occasional 5 star that we should not be this bad on defense. We have more talent (on paper) than most of the teams we play, yet they continually school us. In some cases, these players are just not what their rankings indicated, but this is on the coaches either to develop their players better, or evaluate their talent better. No excuse for our defense to look like we are FAU or western kentucky or something.

 

[DaU83]

500 yards of offense is the kind of games that good BCS teams have on MAC type defenses. We are regularly giving up these yards to mediocre BCS teams. Miami = MAC team?

Who in the front 7 would start for MAC teams?

Renfrow arguably our best DL this year had to transfer from virginia cuz he was benched.

When you stretch your argument to ridiculous levels like this you lose whatever credibility you might have had.

Truth hurts, eh?

You guys are absolutely ridiculous if you don't think we'd have several guys from our front 7 that would start on MAC teams. You're drunk on Golden's Brylcream.

that's probably accurate, but unfortunately (fortunately?), we don't play in the MAC.. so the fact that they would be top MAC guys lends even more credence to the "may not be talented enough to be a 1 at miami" argument.

 

[poncho0091]

considering what we have on this team

Please elaborate.

As I said, this team is full of 3 and 4 star players. Is that enough to make us elite, no, but we have enough just to be capable and we have shown that we are not capable on defense. We recruit better talent than most of our opponents. If our coaches are not evaluating correctly or are not developing them, then that is on the coaches.

 

[sebastian91]

I'm expecting a defense that I feel comfortable that we have a chance to make a stop.

Based on WHAT? The awesome defense we put out last year? The numerous 5th year NFL-bound studs populating our DL? Or maybe the incredibly dynamic LBs we have starting? Thank goodness AJ came back for another year so that you can expect a defense you feel comfortable with!!!!!

 

[sebastian91]

considering what we have on this team

Please elaborate.

As I said, this team is full of 3 and 4 star players. Is that enough to make us elite, no, but we have enough just to be capable and we have shown that we are not capable on defense. We recruit better talent than most of our opponents. If our coaches are not evaluating correctly or are not developing them, then that is on the coaches.

No! We have enough to win some, and lose some...be consistently inconsistent. The kids recruited and evaluated by THIS staff are freshmen and sophs (2013 and 2012 classes). The 2011 class was basically lost. Most of the kids they inherited from Randy aren't good, and THOSE are the upperclassmen on this team...the leaders...the ones with experience...THAT's why this defense sucks. What a bunch of shallow-minded dolts around here! If you want instant freaking gratification, go fire up a rock with Rob Ford. If you want a decent Miami team, then you're going to have to take a chill pill and be patient. Coach D is not going anywhere, no matter how many message board porsters call for his head because they have no capability for logical thought. Take it or freaking leave it, but that's reality.

 

[zellerdog]

i still cant believe there were no commits and no scheduled visits when golden took over.

i had heard it before, but reading the OP reminded me.

cot **** that's brutal.