DT

[The Franchise]

All of this talk of development is fine...but we are in December of Al's third recruiting class and he hasn't landed a single projectable impact defensive tackle prospect.

We can continue to blow smoke up all of our asses, but its a serious point of discussion at this point. This class cycle isn't over yet, but, its worrisome.

It was pretty unanimous that this class needed to feature multiple prospects at the position with at least one being ready to be ready to contribute significantly from Day 1. Lets not move the goal post.

No one is moving the goal posts. This class needed a Keith Bryant and/or a JuCo guy. I wouldn't really talk about his first class.

The relevant point to that, which is what is being discussed, is whether or not there is an impact DT on the roster that hasn't developed. Personally, I think Pierre may be that guy. I think we'll find out more next year and then on draft day in April of 2014.

I care nothing about draft prospectus...I care about collegiate production...draft position isn't about what you've done, its about what you will do...

As for impact DTs on the roster, its my assumption we have potential contributors, guys who will be good collegiate players, but no guys that project as legitimate impact defensive tackles. The All-American, the Lombardi, the Bednarik Award finalist, the legitimate, unanimous first-team All-Conference player...we need to get those guys and we haven't done it yet, and this class, in December, doesn't have one...even if it does get a Keith Bryant, that defensive tackle prospect won't project to that level for at least 3 years down the road. Meanwhile, Miami's going to continue struggling on defense to an extent because it lacks these types of players.

Larry, no one would have thought Nick Fairley and Ndamokong Suh were All American, Lombardi types after their first couple years of college football either. We really need to see how those guys develop before we can make statements like you're making.

 

[The Franchise]

All of this talk of development is fine...but we are in December of Al's third recruiting class and he hasn't landed a single projectable impact defensive tackle prospect.

Neither has anyone else.

Expound.

EDIT: My bad on that after re-reading your post. I thought you meant that he hasn't landed any impact DTs this cycle. Sorry about that.

 

[Mico Jones]

All of this talk of development is fine...but we are in December of Al's third recruiting class and he hasn't landed a single projectable impact defensive tackle prospect.

We can continue to blow smoke up all of our asses, but its a serious point of discussion at this point. This class cycle isn't over yet, but, its worrisome.

It was pretty unanimous that this class needed to feature multiple prospects at the position with at least one being ready to be ready to contribute significantly from Day 1. Lets not move the goal post.

No one is moving the goal posts. This class needed a Keith Bryant and/or a JuCo guy. I wouldn't really talk about his first class.

The relevant point to that, which is what is being discussed, is whether or not there is an impact DT on the roster that hasn't developed. Personally, I think Pierre may be that guy. I think we'll find out more next year and then on draft day in April of 2014.

I care nothing about draft prospectus...I care about collegiate production...draft position isn't about what you've done, its about what you will do...

As for impact DTs on the roster, its my assumption we have potential contributors, guys who will be good collegiate players, but no guys that project as legitimate impact defensive tackles. The All-American, the Lombardi, the Bednarik Award finalist, the legitimate, unanimous first-team All-Conference player...we need to get those guys and we haven't done it yet, and this class, in December, doesn't have one...even if it does get a Keith Bryant, that defensive tackle prospect won't project to that level for at least 3 years down the road. Meanwhile, Miami's going to continue struggling on defense to an extent because it lacks these types of players.

Larry, no one would have thought Nick Fairley and Ndamokong Suh were All American, Lombardi types after their first couple years of college football either. We really need to see how those guys develop before we can make statements like you're making.

Suh was a 4 star DT. I agree we really need to see how these guys develop so long as we are still recruiting the sh*t out of the position until we find a rotation of studs.

Right now we aren't doing that. And that's the real point.

 

[UMcanesfan420]

I think we still sign Bryant, but I also think guys like Earl Moore will be better next year.


Porter staying would be huge.


Pass rush is the bigger issue IMO. Hopefully, we get Matt Thomas to go with Bond and another year of Tyriq McCord getting stronger to fix the pass rush.

 

[Mico Jones]

I think we still sign Bryant, but I also think guys like Earl Moore will be better next year.


Porter staying would be huge.


Pass rush is the bigger issue IMO. Hopefully, we get Matt Thomas to go with Bond and another year of Tyriq McCord getting stronger to fix the pass rush.

Understand though. Its much easier to rush the passer on 3rd and long.

And you aren't going to need a pass rusher if teams are constantly mauling you in the running game.

DT is the fulcrum of any great defense.

 

[The Franchise]

All of this talk of development is fine...but we are in December of Al's third recruiting class and he hasn't landed a single projectable impact defensive tackle prospect.

We can continue to blow smoke up all of our asses, but its a serious point of discussion at this point. This class cycle isn't over yet, but, its worrisome.

It was pretty unanimous that this class needed to feature multiple prospects at the position with at least one being ready to be ready to contribute significantly from Day 1. Lets not move the goal post.

No one is moving the goal posts. This class needed a Keith Bryant and/or a JuCo guy. I wouldn't really talk about his first class.

The relevant point to that, which is what is being discussed, is whether or not there is an impact DT on the roster that hasn't developed. Personally, I think Pierre may be that guy. I think we'll find out more next year and then on draft day in April of 2014.

I care nothing about draft prospectus...I care about collegiate production...draft position isn't about what you've done, its about what you will do...

As for impact DTs on the roster, its my assumption we have potential contributors, guys who will be good collegiate players, but no guys that project as legitimate impact defensive tackles. The All-American, the Lombardi, the Bednarik Award finalist, the legitimate, unanimous first-team All-Conference player...we need to get those guys and we haven't done it yet, and this class, in December, doesn't have one...even if it does get a Keith Bryant, that defensive tackle prospect won't project to that level for at least 3 years down the road. Meanwhile, Miami's going to continue struggling on defense to an extent because it lacks these types of players.

Larry, no one would have thought Nick Fairley and Ndamokong Suh were All American, Lombardi types after their first couple years of college football either. We really need to see how those guys develop before we can make statements like you're making.

Suh was a 4 star DT. I agree we really need to see how these guys develop so long as we are still recruiting the sh*t out of the position until we find a rotation of studs.

Right now we aren't doing that. And that's the real point.

I don't care how many stars Suh had. He didn't do anything till his junior season, which was his 4th year in the program. Before that, he was a jag.

 

[Larry]

All of this talk of development is fine...but we are in December of Al's third recruiting class and he hasn't landed a single projectable impact defensive tackle prospect.

We can continue to blow smoke up all of our asses, but its a serious point of discussion at this point. This class cycle isn't over yet, but, its worrisome.

It was pretty unanimous that this class needed to feature multiple prospects at the position with at least one being ready to be ready to contribute significantly from Day 1. Lets not move the goal post.

No one is moving the goal posts. This class needed a Keith Bryant and/or a JuCo guy. I wouldn't really talk about his first class.

The relevant point to that, which is what is being discussed, is whether or not there is an impact DT on the roster that hasn't developed. Personally, I think Pierre may be that guy. I think we'll find out more next year and then on draft day in April of 2014.

I care nothing about draft prospectus...I care about collegiate production...draft position isn't about what you've done, its about what you will do...

As for impact DTs on the roster, its my assumption we have potential contributors, guys who will be good collegiate players, but no guys that project as legitimate impact defensive tackles. The All-American, the Lombardi, the Bednarik Award finalist, the legitimate, unanimous first-team All-Conference player...we need to get those guys and we haven't done it yet, and this class, in December, doesn't have one...even if it does get a Keith Bryant, that defensive tackle prospect won't project to that level for at least 3 years down the road. Meanwhile, Miami's going to continue struggling on defense to an extent because it lacks these types of players.

Larry, no one would have thought Nick Fairley and Ndamokong Suh were All American, Lombardi types after their first couple years of college football either. We really need to see how those guys develop before we can make statements like you're making.

You aren't comparing apples to apples. Nick Fairley was a junior college transfer...a 5* JUCO transfer. Suh, was a 4/5* (depending on the site) and by his second year, even in a reserve role, was an All-Conference player. Some of the other named studs, where also high end players as preps. Or, on the flip side...some of the names Lu rattled off earlier (for example, Dontari Poe), were on really bad defenses and weren't exactly what I'd call "great college players" despite what their draft position will be.

Miami doesn't have these lauded prep players nor have seen real development from any of them (sans perhaps, Pierre, who made a jump from poor to flashes of respectable in his third year removed from high school). The players mentioned in this thread for the most part, also had solid collegiates playing in front of them while they were underclassmen.

 

[The Franchise]

All of this talk of development is fine...but we are in December of Al's third recruiting class and he hasn't landed a single projectable impact defensive tackle prospect.

We can continue to blow smoke up all of our asses, but its a serious point of discussion at this point. This class cycle isn't over yet, but, its worrisome.

It was pretty unanimous that this class needed to feature multiple prospects at the position with at least one being ready to be ready to contribute significantly from Day 1. Lets not move the goal post.

No one is moving the goal posts. This class needed a Keith Bryant and/or a JuCo guy. I wouldn't really talk about his first class.

The relevant point to that, which is what is being discussed, is whether or not there is an impact DT on the roster that hasn't developed. Personally, I think Pierre may be that guy. I think we'll find out more next year and then on draft day in April of 2014.

I care nothing about draft prospectus...I care about collegiate production...draft position isn't about what you've done, its about what you will do...

As for impact DTs on the roster, its my assumption we have potential contributors, guys who will be good collegiate players, but no guys that project as legitimate impact defensive tackles. The All-American, the Lombardi, the Bednarik Award finalist, the legitimate, unanimous first-team All-Conference player...we need to get those guys and we haven't done it yet, and this class, in December, doesn't have one...even if it does get a Keith Bryant, that defensive tackle prospect won't project to that level for at least 3 years down the road. Meanwhile, Miami's going to continue struggling on defense to an extent because it lacks these types of players.

Larry, no one would have thought Nick Fairley and Ndamokong Suh were All American, Lombardi types after their first couple years of college football either. We really need to see how those guys develop before we can make statements like you're making.

You aren't comparing apples to apples. Nick Fairley was a junior college transfer...a 5* JUCO transfer. Suh, was a 4/5* (depending on the site) and by his second year, even in a reserve role, was an All-Conference player. Some of the other named studs, where also high end players as preps. Or, on the flip side...some of the names Lu rattled off earlier (for example, Dontari Poe), were on really bad defenses and weren't exactly what I'd call "great college players" despite what their draft position will be.

Miami doesn't have these lauded prep players nor have seen real development from any of them (sans perhaps, Pierre, who made a jump from poor to flashes of respectable in his third year removed from high school). The players mentioned in this thread for the most part, also had solid collegiates playing in front of them while they were underclassmen.

I don't care what their star rankings were. Look at what they actually did. Suh exploded as a senior after a very good junior campaign. Before that, his production was pedestrian at best. Just look at the numbers. It's alarming how the switch flipped in his junior season, which was actually is 4th year out of HS.

Fairley, even as a lauded JUCO player, did next to nothing his first year at Auburn. That was 3 years out of HS, and he still didn't pop. No one saw coming what he gave them his final year based on what he had done up till then. The point I'm making isn't about star rankings; it's that DTs typically take a long time to develop into impact players, and even lauded guys don't do it immediately.

 

[Mico Jones]

No one is moving the goal posts. This class needed a Keith Bryant and/or a JuCo guy. I wouldn't really talk about his first class.

The relevant point to that, which is what is being discussed, is whether or not there is an impact DT on the roster that hasn't developed. Personally, I think Pierre may be that guy. I think we'll find out more next year and then on draft day in April of 2014.

I care nothing about draft prospectus...I care about collegiate production...draft position isn't about what you've done, its about what you will do...

As for impact DTs on the roster, its my assumption we have potential contributors, guys who will be good collegiate players, but no guys that project as legitimate impact defensive tackles. The All-American, the Lombardi, the Bednarik Award finalist, the legitimate, unanimous first-team All-Conference player...we need to get those guys and we haven't done it yet, and this class, in December, doesn't have one...even if it does get a Keith Bryant, that defensive tackle prospect won't project to that level for at least 3 years down the road. Meanwhile, Miami's going to continue struggling on defense to an extent because it lacks these types of players.

Larry, no one would have thought Nick Fairley and Ndamokong Suh were All American, Lombardi types after their first couple years of college football either. We really need to see how those guys develop before we can make statements like you're making.

Suh was a 4 star DT. I agree we really need to see how these guys develop so long as we are still recruiting the sh*t out of the position until we find a rotation of studs.

Right now we aren't doing that. And that's the real point.

I don't care how many stars Suh had. He didn't do anything till his junior season, which was his 4th year in the program. Before that, he was a jag.

Nuff said.

You just proved you don't know WTF you are talking about and you obviously didn't follow Suhs entire career.

Boy showed flashes of dominance from the get. He was besdting already as a So. He was the best Dt in the country by year 3.

 

[Larry]

No one is moving the goal posts. This class needed a Keith Bryant and/or a JuCo guy. I wouldn't really talk about his first class.

The relevant point to that, which is what is being discussed, is whether or not there is an impact DT on the roster that hasn't developed. Personally, I think Pierre may be that guy. I think we'll find out more next year and then on draft day in April of 2014.

I care nothing about draft prospectus...I care about collegiate production...draft position isn't about what you've done, its about what you will do...

As for impact DTs on the roster, its my assumption we have potential contributors, guys who will be good collegiate players, but no guys that project as legitimate impact defensive tackles. The All-American, the Lombardi, the Bednarik Award finalist, the legitimate, unanimous first-team All-Conference player...we need to get those guys and we haven't done it yet, and this class, in December, doesn't have one...even if it does get a Keith Bryant, that defensive tackle prospect won't project to that level for at least 3 years down the road. Meanwhile, Miami's going to continue struggling on defense to an extent because it lacks these types of players.

Larry, no one would have thought Nick Fairley and Ndamokong Suh were All American, Lombardi types after their first couple years of college football either. We really need to see how those guys develop before we can make statements like you're making.

You aren't comparing apples to apples. Nick Fairley was a junior college transfer...a 5* JUCO transfer. Suh, was a 4/5* (depending on the site) and by his second year, even in a reserve role, was an All-Conference player. Some of the other named studs, where also high end players as preps. Or, on the flip side...some of the names Lu rattled off earlier (for example, Dontari Poe), were on really bad defenses and weren't exactly what I'd call "great college players" despite what their draft position will be.

Miami doesn't have these lauded prep players nor have seen real development from any of them (sans perhaps, Pierre, who made a jump from poor to flashes of respectable in his third year removed from high school). The players mentioned in this thread for the most part, also had solid collegiates playing in front of them while they were underclassmen.

I don't care what their star rankings were. Look at what they actually did. Suh exploded as a senior after a very good junior campaign. Before that, his production was pedestrian at best. Just look at the numbers. It's alarming how the switch flipped in his junior season, which was actually is 4th year out of HS.

Fairley, even as a lauded JUCO player, did next to nothing his first year at Auburn. That was 3 years out of HS, and he still didn't pop. No one saw coming what he gave them his final year based on what he had done up till then. The point I'm making isn't about star rankings; it's that DTs typically take a long time to develop into impact players, and even lauded guys don't do it immediately.

I understand your point, but, using the names you are using and their situations at their respective colleges isn't a fair cross comparison to what is going on here. We do not have lauded preps (aside from Chickillo) on our roster on the defensive line. Beyond star rankings...we just simple don't have players that even flashed the ability of a Suh or Fairley (your comparisons)...Suh exploded as a senior, but Suh was All-Conference worthy as a RSFr...Fairley came on strong toward the end of his junior year...came up big on a key stops against Georgia and Bama...also had a good bowl game. Straight up, these players were very good and key contributors very early in their careers and they were as talented as any players on their teams right away. To call them JAGs as you did earlier just isn't true.

DTs take time to develop, but good ones also show flashes of whats to come early on.

I'm not even using star rankings of players...sometimes they are a good way to support an argument about how good a player is coming into a program, sometimes they aren't...in this instance, I think its a strong discussion point as the names you are using have always been considered upper echelon in comparison to their peers and when discussing Miami right now, we do not have those types of players, future development or not...we just don't have players that project a high ceiling.

 

[bobbydigius]

Larry, both Jelani and McCord would qualify as lauded preps. Second Pierre was only 2 years removed from HS when he showed flashes this year. I agree that there is concern regarding recruiting along the DL, you just cant deny that, but I dont think it is as bad as you make it out to be. Going back to Pierre, we will get a better idea of what we really have with him this year as most DTs dont have a significant jump in performance til about their third year.

 

[LuCane]

All of this talk of development is fine...but we are in December of Al's third recruiting class and he hasn't landed a single projectable impact defensive tackle prospect.

We can continue to blow smoke up all of our asses, but its a serious point of discussion at this point. This class cycle isn't over yet, but, its worrisome.

It was pretty unanimous that this class needed to feature multiple prospects at the position with at least one being ready to be ready to contribute significantly from Day 1. Lets not move the goal post.

No one is moving the goal posts. This class needed a Keith Bryant and/or a JuCo guy. I wouldn't really talk about his first class.

The relevant point to that, which is what is being discussed, is whether or not there is an impact DT on the roster that hasn't developed. Personally, I think Pierre may be that guy. I think we'll find out more next year and then on draft day in April of 2014.

I care nothing about draft prospectus...I care about collegiate production...draft position isn't about what you've done, its about what you will do...

As for impact DTs on the roster, its my assumption we have potential contributors, guys who will be good collegiate players, but no guys that project as legitimate impact defensive tackles. The All-American, the Lombardi, the Bednarik Award finalist, the legitimate, unanimous first-team All-Conference player...we need to get those guys and we haven't done it yet, and this class, in December, doesn't have one...even if it does get a Keith Bryant, that defensive tackle prospect won't project to that level for at least 3 years down the road. Meanwhile, Miami's going to continue struggling on defense to an extent because it lacks these types of players.

I said we'll find out more this year. The mention of his draft status was a reference to future validation that he's "the" talent we're discussing.

Aside from that, wasn't Jelani a 4* and wasn't Mccord a 4*? Ideally, they'd both have taken shirts and grown into their natural positions/impact, but if we see flashes from them this upcoming year and/or the next, don't they fit into the category you seek? Another point is that there are a slew of 2* and 3* guys that ball out - impact in college - later in their career. Are we writing off Ivery, King (despite being a Buddha on Wheels this year), and Moore already? Would it be that hard to believe that one of those guys makes a jump 2-3 years into college?

What's weird is some of you guys are making this into the rest of us saying we don't need further help...immediately. Obviously, we do. I just don't think it's as dire as it is being made out to be.

 

[CaneSuger]

You know that teams don't always run straight up the middle, right?

I think we still sign Bryant, but I also think guys like Earl Moore will be better next year.


Porter staying would be huge.


Pass rush is the bigger issue IMO. Hopefully, we get Matt Thomas to go with Bond and another year of Tyriq McCord getting stronger to fix the pass rush.

Understand though. Its much easier to rush the passer on 3rd and long.

And you aren't going to need a pass rusher if teams are constantly mauling you in the running game.

DT is the fulcrum of any great defense.

 

[CaneSuger]

If Defensive Tackle were as important as all that, the Detroit Lions would be the best team in the NFL.

We can build a championship defense with two Curtis Porters on the inside, a Chickillo on one end spot, and a badass pass rusher on the other end.

Our defense depends on how well McCord and Hoilett and those guys develop.

Frankly, we also had some poor safety and linebacker play last year with guys out of position, and a lack of physicality from the corner spot. It's a lot more than just defensive tackles.

All of this talk of development is fine...but we are in December of Al's third recruiting class and he hasn't landed a single projectable impact defensive tackle prospect.

We can continue to blow smoke up all of our asses, but its a serious point of discussion at this point. This class cycle isn't over yet, but, its worrisome.

It was pretty unanimous that this class needed to feature multiple prospects at the position with at least one being ready to be ready to contribute significantly from Day 1. Lets not move the goal post.

No one is moving the goal posts. This class needed a Keith Bryant and/or a JuCo guy. I wouldn't really talk about his first class.

The relevant point to that, which is what is being discussed, is whether or not there is an impact DT on the roster that hasn't developed. Personally, I think Pierre may be that guy. I think we'll find out more next year and then on draft day in April of 2014.

I care nothing about draft prospectus...I care about collegiate production...draft position isn't about what you've done, its about what you will do...

As for impact DTs on the roster, its my assumption we have potential contributors, guys who will be good collegiate players, but no guys that project as legitimate impact defensive tackles. The All-American, the Lombardi, the Bednarik Award finalist, the legitimate, unanimous first-team All-Conference player...we need to get those guys and we haven't done it yet, and this class, in December, doesn't have one...even if it does get a Keith Bryant, that defensive tackle prospect won't project to that level for at least 3 years down the road. Meanwhile, Miami's going to continue struggling on defense to an extent because it lacks these types of players.

Larry, no one would have thought Nick Fairley and Ndamokong Suh were All American, Lombardi types after their first couple years of college football either. We really need to see how those guys develop before we can make statements like you're making.

You aren't comparing apples to apples. Nick Fairley was a junior college transfer...a 5* JUCO transfer. Suh, was a 4/5* (depending on the site) and by his second year, even in a reserve role, was an All-Conference player. Some of the other named studs, where also high end players as preps. Or, on the flip side...some of the names Lu rattled off earlier (for example, Dontari Poe), were on really bad defenses and weren't exactly what I'd call "great college players" despite what their draft position will be.

Miami doesn't have these lauded prep players nor have seen real development from any of them (sans perhaps, Pierre, who made a jump from poor to flashes of respectable in his third year removed from high school). The players mentioned in this thread for the most part, also had solid collegiates playing in front of them while they were underclassmen.

 

[k9cane]

No one is trying to understate the importance of the DT spot, but havent there been years when Miami won it all with guys like Derwin Jones, Matt Walters, Anthony Hamlet/Eric Miller( as a tandem in 91) plugging inside?

Point is, if you have good solid guys inside, you don't necessarily need Cortez Kennedy and Russell Maryland all the time.

And IIRC, correctly, all the guys I mentioned really started contributing by about the time they were upperclassmen( save Tez who was JUCO and Maryland who played a bit as a RS Frosh in 87)

 

[k9cane]

I've been repeating that same thing, but dudes get way too impatient. Their impatience blinds them from reality, and the reality is DTs don't just walk in and dominate unless they're named Tommie Harris. All of our great DTs haven't been great until they've been here for a couple years at least. Most didn't even have to sniff the field until their 3rd year in the program. Unfortunately, horrific recruiting on the DL by Shanntard has forced Al to play a bunch of babies on the DL who clearly weren't ready to play.

Correctamundo. I can't think of a true freshman DT coming in and dominating other than him. That was what, 2001?

Guys, remember how Damione Lewis evolved as a player, he was a top ten-ish recruit that Butch swayed from Meat-chicken outta Texas. Well, early on he was thrust into a starter( in the Denny Fortney-era created by the mess Errickson left) and honestly, he was very JAG-ish for a few years. But he left UM a first rounder. I think two things happened, one, he got bigger and better. Yeah, players actually improve. And secondly, by 2000, he was surrounded by a lot more talent at almost every position on defense.

I think those two factors work together and it could repeat itself in the upcoming years

 

[Larry]

Larry, both Jelani and McCord would qualify as lauded preps. Second Pierre was only 2 years removed from HS when he showed flashes this year. I agree that there is concern regarding recruiting along the DL, you just cant deny that, but I dont think it is as bad as you make it out to be. Going back to Pierre, we will get a better idea of what we really have with him this year as most DTs dont have a significant jump in performance til about their third year.

But, neither are DTs.

Lets not overstate Pierre's "flashes".

 

[Larry]

All of this talk of development is fine...but we are in December of Al's third recruiting class and he hasn't landed a single projectable impact defensive tackle prospect.

We can continue to blow smoke up all of our asses, but its a serious point of discussion at this point. This class cycle isn't over yet, but, its worrisome.

It was pretty unanimous that this class needed to feature multiple prospects at the position with at least one being ready to be ready to contribute significantly from Day 1. Lets not move the goal post.

No one is moving the goal posts. This class needed a Keith Bryant and/or a JuCo guy. I wouldn't really talk about his first class.

The relevant point to that, which is what is being discussed, is whether or not there is an impact DT on the roster that hasn't developed. Personally, I think Pierre may be that guy. I think we'll find out more next year and then on draft day in April of 2014.

I care nothing about draft prospectus...I care about collegiate production...draft position isn't about what you've done, its about what you will do...

As for impact DTs on the roster, its my assumption we have potential contributors, guys who will be good collegiate players, but no guys that project as legitimate impact defensive tackles. The All-American, the Lombardi, the Bednarik Award finalist, the legitimate, unanimous first-team All-Conference player...we need to get those guys and we haven't done it yet, and this class, in December, doesn't have one...even if it does get a Keith Bryant, that defensive tackle prospect won't project to that level for at least 3 years down the road. Meanwhile, Miami's going to continue struggling on defense to an extent because it lacks these types of players.

I said we'll find out more this year. The mention of his draft status was a reference to future validation that he's "the" talent we're discussing.

Aside from that, wasn't Jelani a 4* and wasn't Mccord a 4*? Ideally, they'd both have taken shirts and grown into their natural positions/impact, but if we see flashes from them this upcoming year and/or the next, don't they fit into the category you seek? Another point is that there are a slew of 2* and 3* guys that ball out - impact in college - later in their career. Are we writing off Ivery, King (despite being a Buddha on Wheels this year), and Moore already? Would it be that hard to believe that one of those guys makes a jump 2-3 years into college?

What's weird is some of you guys are making this into the rest of us saying we don't need further help...immediately. Obviously, we do. I just don't think it's as dire as it is being made out to be.

As I mentioned, Hamilton and McCord aren't DTs, which is really, what this thread is about.

As for the mention development...Miami should be in win-now mode...this team skipped two bowl games under Golden, so, once we are free and clear of the Bowl bans, we should be seeing this team play in significant football games.

And, sure, some guys develop, but those should be considered "nice surprises" moreover banking anything on them, especially this early in their career. Personally, I think Moore is the best of the bunch, but he's got a ceiling.

As for how dire the situation is...I disagree...I think it is need #1...pass rushers coming in #2 before a big drop off elsewhere.

 

[LuCane]

Larry, both Jelani and McCord would qualify as lauded preps. Second Pierre was only 2 years removed from HS when he showed flashes this year. I agree that there is concern regarding recruiting along the DL, you just cant deny that, but I dont think it is as bad as you make it out to be. Going back to Pierre, we will get a better idea of what we really have with him this year as most DTs dont have a significant jump in performance til about their third year.

But, neither are DTs.

Lets not overstate Pierre's "flashes".

So what do you think Pierre will become?

 

[LuCane]

All of this talk of development is fine...but we are in December of Al's third recruiting class and he hasn't landed a single projectable impact defensive tackle prospect.

We can continue to blow smoke up all of our asses, but its a serious point of discussion at this point. This class cycle isn't over yet, but, its worrisome.

It was pretty unanimous that this class needed to feature multiple prospects at the position with at least one being ready to be ready to contribute significantly from Day 1. Lets not move the goal post.

No one is moving the goal posts. This class needed a Keith Bryant and/or a JuCo guy. I wouldn't really talk about his first class.

The relevant point to that, which is what is being discussed, is whether or not there is an impact DT on the roster that hasn't developed. Personally, I think Pierre may be that guy. I think we'll find out more next year and then on draft day in April of 2014.

I care nothing about draft prospectus...I care about collegiate production...draft position isn't about what you've done, its about what you will do...

As for impact DTs on the roster, its my assumption we have potential contributors, guys who will be good collegiate players, but no guys that project as legitimate impact defensive tackles. The All-American, the Lombardi, the Bednarik Award finalist, the legitimate, unanimous first-team All-Conference player...we need to get those guys and we haven't done it yet, and this class, in December, doesn't have one...even if it does get a Keith Bryant, that defensive tackle prospect won't project to that level for at least 3 years down the road. Meanwhile, Miami's going to continue struggling on defense to an extent because it lacks these types of players.

I said we'll find out more this year. The mention of his draft status was a reference to future validation that he's "the" talent we're discussing.

Aside from that, wasn't Jelani a 4* and wasn't Mccord a 4*? Ideally, they'd both have taken shirts and grown into their natural positions/impact, but if we see flashes from them this upcoming year and/or the next, don't they fit into the category you seek? Another point is that there are a slew of 2* and 3* guys that ball out - impact in college - later in their career. Are we writing off Ivery, King (despite being a Buddha on Wheels this year), and Moore already? Would it be that hard to believe that one of those guys makes a jump 2-3 years into college?

What's weird is some of you guys are making this into the rest of us saying we don't need further help...immediately. Obviously, we do. I just don't think it's as dire as it is being made out to be.

As I mentioned, Hamilton and McCord aren't DTs, which is really, what this thread is about.

As for the mention development...Miami should be in win-now mode...this team skipped two bowl games under Golden, so, once we are free and clear of the Bowl bans, we should be seeing this team play in significant football games.

And, sure, some guys develop, but those should be considered "nice surprises" moreover banking anything on them, especially this early in their career. Personally, I think Moore is the best of the bunch, but he's got a ceiling.

As for how dire the situation is...I disagree...I think it is need #1...pass rushers coming in #2 before a big drop off elsewhere.

#1 I think Hamilton ends up a DT here. Whether he was recruited to play there or not, Golden's comments indicate that it wasn't exactly a surprise that he may outgrow the DE position.

Guess we just disagree about priorities. I think we're worse off on the edge than we are inside (unless Porter leaves). And, you know how important I think DT is to a defense.