DT

[Problem2]

Franchise speaks the truth.

 

[OBLIVION]

I've been repeating that same thing, but dudes get way too impatient. Their impatience blinds them from reality, and the reality is DTs don't just walk in and dominate unless they're named Tommie Harris. All of our great DTs haven't been great until they've been here for a couple years at least. Most didn't even have to sniff the field until their 3rd year in the program. Unfortunately, horrific recruiting on the DL by Shanntard has forced Al to play a bunch of babies on the DL who clearly weren't ready to play.

Correctamundo. I can't think of a true freshman DT coming in and dominating other than him. That was what, 2001?

I think a guy name Vince Wilfork did a pretty **** good job

 

[The Franchise]

I've been repeating that same thing, but dudes get way too impatient. Their impatience blinds them from reality, and the reality is DTs don't just walk in and dominate unless they're named Tommie Harris. All of our great DTs haven't been great until they've been here for a couple years at least. Most didn't even have to sniff the field until their 3rd year in the program. Unfortunately, horrific recruiting on the DL by Shanntard has forced Al to play a bunch of babies on the DL who clearly weren't ready to play.

Correctamundo. I can't think of a true freshman DT coming in and dominating other than him. That was what, 2001?

It's certainly not a coincidence based on the insuperable data that freshman just don't walk in and dominate at DT. They rarely do at DE either. The only reason we are even hearing about our freshman and watching them get pushed around by 22 year old men is because Shanntard so badly f'ed us recruiting on the DL. If these dudes weren't forced into action when they clearly weren't ready for it, they'd get to sit out like Eddie Goldman and be worshiped like Eddie for their potential. Instead, they had to get pushed around and now given up on by impatient fans.

 

[fincane]

I've been repeating that same thing, but dudes get way too impatient. Their impatience blinds them from reality, and the reality is DTs don't just walk in and dominate unless they're named Tommie Harris. All of our great DTs haven't been great until they've been here for a couple years at least. Most didn't even have to sniff the field until their 3rd year in the program. Unfortunately, horrific recruiting on the DL by Shanntard has forced Al to play a bunch of babies on the DL who clearly weren't ready to play.

Correctamundo. I can't think of a true freshman DT coming in and dominating other than him. That was what, 2001?

I think a guy name Vince Wilfork did a pretty **** good job

Wilfork was a freshman in 2001 and didn't dominate. He was a bit player that year.

 

[The Franchise]

I've been repeating that same thing, but dudes get way too impatient. Their impatience blinds them from reality, and the reality is DTs don't just walk in and dominate unless they're named Tommie Harris. All of our great DTs haven't been great until they've been here for a couple years at least. Most didn't even have to sniff the field until their 3rd year in the program. Unfortunately, horrific recruiting on the DL by Shanntard has forced Al to play a bunch of babies on the DL who clearly weren't ready to play.

Correctamundo. I can't think of a true freshman DT coming in and dominating other than him. That was what, 2001?

I think a guy name Vince Wilfork did a pretty **** good job

One of the best DTs in the history of football, and he didn't even dominate as a freshman. He was also surrounded by some pretty **** good players wasn't he?

 

[LuCane]

LULZ at Golden's DT recruiting coming under fire already. His first class is a total mulligan given how late he was hired and how few commits Shannvo left. Yet he still managed to sign Pierre, who will leave here a high draft pick.

He signed a couple excellent prospects last year too. It's impossible to judge freshman DTs though because they shouldn't even be near the field at that position at such an early stage in their careers.

In addition, don't discount the real possibility of developing some guys recruited at different positions (DE, TE, etc) developing into productive DTs down the road.

We need to have some perspective on the DT position, and I suggest you look to our all time greats for guidance. Can't think of any who dominated as freshman and most of them really turned it on around their third year in the program.

The specific name here is Jelani Hamilton. I think he slides inside very much like Olsen Pierre. Ideally, as you said, he would have taken a shirt year to realize it'll be impossible for him to stay below 290, and he's most likely a 305 pounder once he full matures. With his long arms and good feet, he may surprise people toward the end of next season, much like Pierre flashed glimpses at the end of this season. I keep repeating that these guys are on the field, being judged, at the same time guys like William Joseph took 2 full seasons (a redshirt and then a year as an unexplosive Dend) to show us flashes at DT.

Jelani is best suited as a strong side 4-3 IMO. But yes he can bulk up and be a solid 3-4.

That being said a great defensive line doesn't only need one or two impact guys but a bunch of quality depth as well.

Enough with all this developement stuff. How many these guys to you think are really going to develop into something above average to special? And even then the good ones always show flashes instantly.

You could see Jelani's burst this past year with as little as he played. Who else on the squad shows that kind size/strength ratio with quick twitch explosion off the line to play the interior? Plus there are guys like Marvin Austin that ball from the get go.

Who's going to man the nose then Porter is gone. The nose(3 technique) is the absolutely most important position for this style of defense. Ivery? Corey King?

And what does any of that have to do with Golden's inability to pull in young studs last cycle and this one up to now?

If we have to wait til next year for a couple of impact making interior linemen and if they need 2 years to develope what is that going to say about our defense in the next couple of years even with all the young LB and DB talent we have?

I suspect it will be either Ivery, Moore or Bryant (if he comes aboard).

Your comment re: "enough with development" is tough to understand. There are countless examples of Frosh interior linemen who developed over a few (meaning 2-3) seasons.

Let's take a look:

2012 NFL Draft

Dontari Poe - #11 Overall (1st Round) - 2star prospect by Rivals and Scout.com; REDSHIRTED his first year; only got 6 starts in his RS Frosh year, which was his second year in college; 27 tackles total that year; became a consistent starter his 3rd year in college.

Fletcher Cox - #12 Overall (1st Round) - DEFENSIVE END coming out of HS; played in 12 games as a true frosh, but only started in 4 games; started 11 games as a Sophomore, before leaving as a Junior.

Derrick Wolfe - #36 overall (2nd Round) - 2 star recruit by Rivals.com; 0 starts as a freshman; played as a backup in half the games; made 13 starts as a sophomore; put it all together as a Senior to be the co-big east defensive player of the year.

Kendall Reyes - #49 overall (2nd Round) - Played defensive End in high school; 6' 4" 220 pound recruit; 2 star recruit on scout; REDSHIRTED; started in 4 games as a RS Frosh (2nd year of college); took hold of a DT position and started 12 games as a RS Sophomore (3rd year on college), ala William Joseph; put it all together as a junior, in 2010, and was a first team all-conference player.

Jerel Worthy - #51 overall (2nd Round) - 2 star recruit on Scout.com and 78th best defensive tackle as a HS recruit; REDSHIRTED; started 11 games as a RS Frosh (2nd year of college); put it all together in his third year of college, starting 13 games and earning some All-American honors.

Devon Still - #53 overall (2nd Round) - 4 star recruit on Scout.com; REDSHIRTED; tore his knee his second year; debut was in 2008 (his 3rd year in college); put it all together as a 5th year senior, where he started 12 games and made all-conference.

You're a smart guy, so you can add all that up and discuss reasonably. Those are the DTs selected in the first 2 rounds of the last NFL draft:

- 4 of 6 took redshirts
- earliest impact was made in 2nd year of college
- 4 of 6 were 2 star recruits

Development of interior DLinemen is the name of the game.

 

[WhatTheHell]

If ever there was a time where we needed Golden to live up to his rep of developing talent, it is right now. And at DT.

Porter and Pierre can hopefully take a leap and be a solid 1-2, but we are desperate for the kids behind them like Moore to up their game. 113th in rush defense. Revolting.

 

[Dan E. Dangerously]

**** Vince Redshirted

 

[WhatTheHell]

**** Mico Jones dawg this dude just rolled up a bunch of facts and stats into his fist and smack the **** outta ya.

 

[OBLIVION]

I've been repeating that same thing, but dudes get way too impatient. Their impatience blinds them from reality, and the reality is DTs don't just walk in and dominate unless they're named Tommie Harris. All of our great DTs haven't been great until they've been here for a couple years at least. Most didn't even have to sniff the field until their 3rd year in the program. Unfortunately, horrific recruiting on the DL by Shanntard has forced Al to play a bunch of babies on the DL who clearly weren't ready to play.

Correctamundo. I can't think of a true freshman DT coming in and dominating other than him. That was what, 2001?

I think a guy name Vince Wilfork did a pretty **** good job

One of the best DTs in the history of football, and he didn't even dominate as a freshman. He was also surrounded by some pretty **** good players wasn't he?

41 tackles, 11 TFL 1 sack 15 hurries 3 FF wasn't bad never started a game until he was a junior.

Tommie had his fair share of talent around him @ OU. They weren't fielding scrubs @ the college ranks.

 

[WhatTheHell]

So you expect every DT that comes through Miami to follow the same career path as a future NFL HOF? Seems legit.

 

[Crispy]

72 Earl Moore DT 6-1 300 Fr Tampa, FL

66 Dequan Ivery DT 6-1 303 Fr Lake City, FL

99 Jelani Hamilton DE/DT 6-5 271 Fr Fort Lauderdale, FL

87 Jacoby Briscoe DT 6-5 312 Fr Lafayette, LA

67 Corey King DT 6-1 292 Fr Boca Raton, FL

92 Jalen Grimble DT/DE 6-2 292 So Las Vegas, NV

91 Olsen Pierre DT 6-4 296 So Rahway, NJ

93 Luther Robinson DT/DE 6-3 290 Jr Fort Pierce, FL

96 Curtis Porter DT 6-1 308 Jr Charlotte, NC

Thanks for the list. Kinda forgot about some of these guys, hopefully another Utough will help a couple of these guys at least keep the heat off our LBs

 

[japancane]

Al did a good job of getting guys like Wilkerson at Temple developed into NFL talent. I agree we need some bodies but its way too early to write some of these kids off as JAGS.

Luther, Porter (if he comes back) and Pierre are a good start. Ivery showed flashes, as did Moore. I also think someone else will make a big jump at DT- someone like Hamilton or Grimble

 

[Consigliere]

I've been repeating that same thing, but dudes get way too impatient. Their impatience blinds them from reality, and the reality is DTs don't just walk in and dominate unless they're named Tommie Harris. All of our great DTs haven't been great until they've been here for a couple years at least. Most didn't even have to sniff the field until their 3rd year in the program. Unfortunately, horrific recruiting on the DL by Shanntard has forced Al to play a bunch of babies on the DL who clearly weren't ready to play.

Correctamundo. I can't think of a true freshman DT coming in and dominating other than him. That was what, 2001?

I think a guy name Vince Wilfork did a pretty **** good job

One of the best DTs in the history of football, and he didn't even dominate as a freshman. He was also surrounded by some pretty **** good players wasn't he?

As much as I want Bryant and Bostwick, more freshman isn't the answer to our current problem. Hopefully Porter returns, Robinson gets better, the kids take steps forward and we land a JUCO. Continued development (Coaching, UTough and Maturity) is key for next year....oh and if Porter stays.

 

[OBLIVION]

Al did a good job of getting guys like Wilkerson at Temple developed into NFL talent. I agree we need some bodies but its way too early to write some of these kids off as JAGS.

Luther, Porter (if he comes back) and Pierre are a good start. Ivery showed flashes, as did Moore. I also think someone else will make a big jump at DT- someone like Hamilton or Grimble

If you look @ what he and the staff did with some of the dudes on the roster, that were presumed dead by many, and got them to play @ a high level. We should all assume that they can take what is on the roster @ the DL, and turn them into players.

 

[Odin]

People here are discussing 2 different subjects.Golden missing on his top targets at DT(Goldman,Watkins,Hooks,Bradley ,T.Johnson)and having to scramble late to sign Dts.There's no way to deny this so the comeback is fans are impatient expecting our young DTs to dominate early.Again 2 different subjects.Nobody expects young Dts to dominate,we're just hoping the staff can start signing their top priorities at DT and not have to settle for the next tier.Nobody can honestly claim Ivory or Briscoe were our top targets at DT last year,yes they may turn out to be better than some of the higher ranked DTs but that is a different discussion.

 

[Consigliere]

**** Mico Jones dawg this dude just rolled up a bunch of facts and stats into his fist and smack the **** outta ya.

Hahaha

 

[The Franchise]

LULZ at Golden's DT recruiting coming under fire already. His first class is a total mulligan given how late he was hired and how few commits Shannvo left. Yet he still managed to sign Pierre, who will leave here a high draft pick.

He signed a couple excellent prospects last year too. It's impossible to judge freshman DTs though because they shouldn't even be near the field at that position at such an early stage in their careers.

In addition, don't discount the real possibility of developing some guys recruited at different positions (DE, TE, etc) developing into productive DTs down the road.

We need to have some perspective on the DT position, and I suggest you look to our all time greats for guidance. Can't think of any who dominated as freshman and most of them really turned it on around their third year in the program.

The specific name here is Jelani Hamilton. I think he slides inside very much like Olsen Pierre. Ideally, as you said, he would have taken a shirt year to realize it'll be impossible for him to stay below 290, and he's most likely a 305 pounder once he full matures. With his long arms and good feet, he may surprise people toward the end of next season, much like Pierre flashed glimpses at the end of this season. I keep repeating that these guys are on the field, being judged, at the same time guys like William Joseph took 2 full seasons (a redshirt and then a year as an unexplosive Dend) to show us flashes at DT.

Jelani is best suited as a strong side 4-3 IMO. But yes he can bulk up and be a solid 3-4.

That being said a great defensive line doesn't only need one or two impact guys but a bunch of quality depth as well.

Enough with all this developement stuff. How many these guys to you think are really going to develop into something above average to special? And even then the good ones always show flashes instantly.

You could see Jelani's burst this past year with as little as he played. Who else on the squad shows that kind size/strength ratio with quick twitch explosion off the line to play the interior? Plus there are guys like Marvin Austin that ball from the get go.

Who's going to man the nose then Porter is gone. The nose(3 technique) is the absolutely most important position for this style of defense. Ivery? Corey King?

And what does any of that have to do with Golden's inability to pull in young studs last cycle and this one up to now?

If we have to wait til next year for a couple of impact making interior linemen and if they need 2 years to develope what is that going to say about our defense in the next couple of years even with all the young LB and DB talent we have?

I suspect it will be either Ivery, Moore or Bryant (if he comes aboard).

Your comment re: "enough with development" is tough to understand. There are countless examples of Frosh interior linemen who developed over a few (meaning 2-3) seasons.

Let's take a look:

2012 NFL Draft

Dontari Poe - #11 Overall (1st Round) - 2star prospect by Rivals and Scout.com; REDSHIRTED his first year; only got 6 starts in his RS Frosh year, which was his second year in college; 27 tackles total that year; became a consistent starter his 3rd year in college.

Fletcher Cox - #12 Overall (1st Round) - DEFENSIVE END coming out of HS; played in 12 games as a true frosh, but only started in 4 games; started 11 games as a Sophomore, before leaving as a Junior.

Derrick Wolfe - #36 overall (2nd Round) - 2 star recruit by Rivals.com; 0 starts as a freshman; played as a backup in half the games; made 13 starts as a sophomore; put it all together as a Senior to be the co-big east defensive player of the year.

Kendall Reyes - #49 overall (2nd Round) - Played defensive End in high school; 6' 4" 220 pound recruit; 2 star recruit on scout; REDSHIRTED; started in 4 games as a RS Frosh (2nd year of college); took hold of a DT position and started 12 games as a RS Sophomore (3rd year on college), ala William Joseph; put it all together as a junior, in 2010, and was a first team all-conference player.

Jerel Worthy - #51 overall (2nd Round) - 2 star recruit on Scout.com and 78th best defensive tackle as a HS recruit; REDSHIRTED; started 11 games as a RS Frosh (2nd year of college); put it all together in his third year of college, starting 13 games and earning some All-American honors.

Devon Still - #53 overall (2nd Round) - 4 star recruit on Scout.com; REDSHIRTED; tore his knee his second year; debut was in 2008 (his 3rd year in college); put it all together as a 5th year senior, where he started 12 games and made all-conference.

You're a smart guy, so you can add all that up and discuss reasonably. Those are the DTs selected in the first 2 rounds of the last NFL draft:

- 4 of 6 took redshirts
- earliest impact was made in 2nd year of college
- 4 of 6 were 2 star recruits

Development of interior DLinemen is the name of the game.

Awesome stuff, Lu. It's amazing how many low-rated recruits are the ones that actually blossom at DT while so many 5 stars bust at that position. I'm comfortable that we will develop our guys.

 

[Problem2]

Including Bradley and Johnson in the list of guys they've missed on is ridiculous.

 

[weownfsu]

I'm in favor of taking monster DT's every year, so it is a bit concerning to me that we don't have any yet (even though it wouldn't surprise me at all if KB signed here). But, there is seriously NO reason to write off the guys we just brought in. Pierre improved a **** of a lot, didn't he? Why not give guys like Moore the same chance? I think Robinson can be pretty solid with another offseason too.