Are you prepared for the rebuild to take 5 years?

[BosCane]

Between his work ethic, recruiting savvy, marketing ability, and persistence, I am sure Golden will one day develop into an outstanding coach.

The problem is that currently, with his philosophies and schemes, we are consistently ineffective. We're losers. In time, Golden will learn and fix this. The problem is that it may take 10 years of competitive experience in order for this to happen. And we're not waiting that long (nor should we).

So, essentially, it's a losing situation. Whether or not he ever gets to be great, it won't happen here.

So stock the cupboard and move on, Al. Please. And hurry up, I can't take much more of this.

 

[DaU83]

i had no national title aspirations for this year, or next year to be honest.. if it takes 5 years to be a national title contender, that's not so bad... considering where we started..

I think people forget that bama was a 10-2 team in 05... saban didn't start with complete garbage.


Also, to the fire D'Onof crowd.... Can Al Golden fire D'Onof for running the defense that Al wants to run? As a boss in general, can you fire someone for doing exactly what you're asking of them?

Sure you can. If you see a complete lack of execution and you believe in your system then you can get rid of the guy because he isn't teaching it well. I see no issue with that. Moreso the problem is that Golden has worked with D for awhile and respects/trusts him so he's less likeely to view the lack of execution as a Donofrio problem whether it is or not. But I'm not sure why people seem to suggest that you can't fire a guy for (potentially) mismanaging and failing to implement the defense that he wants to run.

I think we would then have to make the assumption that golden think he's mismanaging or not implementing, but i don't' think that's the case. Other than that, they did this at Temple... and it worked, so why would golden bail now?

 

[Pennmed Canefan]

i had no national title aspirations for this year, or next year to be honest.. if it takes 5 years to be a national title contender, that's not so bad... considering where we started..

I think people forget that bama was a 10-2 team in 05... saban didn't start with complete garbage.


Also, to the fire D'Onof crowd.... Can Al Golden fire D'Onof for running the defense that Al wants to run? As a boss in general, can you fire someone for doing exactly what you're asking of them?

Sure you can. If you see a complete lack of execution and you believe in your system then you can get rid of the guy because he isn't teaching it well. I see no issue with that. Moreso the problem is that Golden has worked with D for awhile and respects/trusts him so he's less likeely to view the lack of execution as a Donofrio problem whether it is or not. But I'm not sure why people seem to suggest that you can't fire a guy for (potentially) mismanaging and failing to implement the defense that he wants to run.

I think we would then have to make the assumption that golden think he's mismanaging or not implementing, but i don't' think that's the case. Other than that, they did this at Temple... and it worked, so why would golden bail now?

I'm not saying he will I'm just answering your question. Yes, you can fire the guy even though he follows the same concepts as you. As for whether he WILL fire him, I still think so. The reason is because keeping him demoralizes the team and fanbase and it's difficult to recover that. The program could use some momentum. It's obvious the defense has mentally quit on D.

 

[The Franchise]

As for whether he WILL fire him, I still think so. The reason is because keeping him demoralizes the team and fanbase and it's difficult to recover that. The program could use some momentum. It's obvious the defense has mentally quit on D.

That's exactly why he HAS to fire him even if it ultimately turns out to be a sham where Corch Koresh continues to implement the same defense under a new puppet. There's no way UM can go into 2014 with Corch Duh as the DC and expect any excitement or momentum heading into the season.

Teams and fans need hope, and the defense has already spoken on Duh when they so obviously quit against Puke. The fans universally revile Duh, and the minute anything bad happens in 2014 the whole house of cards will collapse. The fans will go into 2014 looking for a reason to hang Duh, and if Corch Koresh doesn't remove him before the season he'll be the next big target.

 

[SmokeyRone]

Rebuilds don't take five years. Finding out that a rebuild is never going to happen can take five years though.

 

[TexasCane90]

If it takes 5 yrs from this year that's ridiculous we crucified radio after year 3 when the shirt was obvious

Radio even played a tougher schedule

 

[Canes239]

I'm prepared. We're always two years away.

 

[TexasCane90]

It's a process

 

[dudenate]

If it takes 5 yrs from this year that's ridiculous we crucified radio after year 3 when the shirt was obvious

Radio even played a tougher schedule

Imo, Comparisons to radio are not fair. The line out of central 'we haven't seen UM coaches around here in a long time' is very telling. That simple fact tells us that randy wouldn't even try to recruit a high school that close to home is bafoonery. AL's got his issues and problems, sure...but he ain't no radio.

 

[fastcane]

We will have 9 less scollies to offer too. In two years things will be much better but unless he does the best job in the country in recruiting we won't be playing for a NC, maybe close though.

No, what stares us in the face is a fraud of a coach who can recruit and smooth talk but can't actually win football games.

We will never compete for a NC with Golden.

That's pure speculation. You may be right, you may be wrong. Only time will tell.

I said when Randy was fired, and the depths of his roster mismanagement became clear, that we were probably looking at another Butch-type rebuild. We weren't on probation, but we may as well have been. I'm not sure any NCAA punishment could've been much worse than what Randy did to the roster. His last two classes, plus the one AG had to throw together in a few weeks after he was hired...that's what we're seeing the results of right now (and last year). Throw in the NCAA mess after AG was hired, and it removed all doubt for me that this would be at least a Butch-type rebuild. So, yes, I am prepared for it, because that's what I expected all along.

Edit: I'll also add that the premature departures of a lot of the depth on defense (Paul, Finnie, GT) has really hurt. To me, the most valid criticism of AG is the failures at recruiting DTs, which is why we see the JUCOs and Renfrows being brought in. I also believe that he misjudged how good the offense would be this year. I don't believe we would've seen as many of the schematic changes on defense this year if he'd known that Morris and the offense would turn the ball over and struggle to sustain drives.

 

[FreePawn]

I only have questions.


Will our players, together, play beyond their individual talent levels or below?
Will we be able to beat the "more talented" opponent?
.....
What indicators, negative or positive, do you currently have for any of the answers to the questions above?
.......

When Golden was hired the main concerns voiced by the non-cheerleaders were:


- his inability to win the conference despite being the most talented team;
- his lack of success vs good teams.

The first point makes me worry about this whole wait-til-we-have-better-players line of thinking and relates to the first question I quoted. The second point? Well, you asked for indicators:

 

[FreePawn]

Perhaps an elite coach like Saban would've had this thing rolling in year 2 or 3, but this is the hand we were dealt. It took Butch 6 years. I'm not comparing Golden or his situation to Butch (although there are some parallels). I'm just saying that regardless of the confluence of circumstances, it took 6 years.

I don't think we're contenders next year (unless Olsen wins the job and balls out like Johnny Football or something), but I think we'll be at that level in 2015 and definitely 2016 if Golden continues to recruit well.

I think the offense is going to thrive. There's just too much talent coming in, including probably the best O-line haul in the country. The wealth of playmakers on offense alone will keep the program from bottoming out.

Whether or not you find that acceptable, are you emotionally prepared for it? Because that's what's staring us in the face.

When Nick Saban took over Michigan State, they went on a 4-year probation, had zero bowl bans, and lost 9 total scholarships. MSU went on probation his second season in East Lansing. He was 25-22-1 his first 4 seasons at MSU. When he rolled in from the Brownies at age 44, there was no guarantee he would be what he is today.

BTW, Michigan State wanted to run Mark Dantonio out of East Lansing at the end of 2009. He then has back to back 11-win seasons. And this year he's about to win the Legends division. He was 18-17 at Cincinnati when he was hired. Funny business.

Michigan State is and always has been a crap program. When Saban got there they hadn't won anything since the 1960s. That program is nothing like Miami.

When comparing programs, you should compare apples to apples. Compare what he did at LSU and Bama to what Corch Al's doing at UM because those are programs in the same tier in the college football hierarchy.

Saban:
1995–1997 – Beginning in 1995, Saban moderately improved MSU's fortunes, taking the Spartans to minor bowl games (all of which they lost by double-digit margins) in each of his first three seasons. From 1995 to 1997, Michigan State finished 6–5–1, 6–6, and 7–5. In comparison, MSU had finished 5–6, 6–6 and 5–6 (prior to NCAA forfeits) in 1992–1994.
1998 – On November 7, 1998, the Spartans upset the No. 1 ranked THE **** of the universe State 28–24 at THE **** of the universe Stadium. However, even after the upset and an early-season rout of then-highly-ranked Notre Dame the Spartans finished 6–6, including three last-minute losses featuring turnovers, defensive lapses, and special-teams misplays, and failed to earn a bowl invitation.
1999 – Saban led the Spartans to a 9–2 season that included wins over Notre Dame, Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State. However, the two losses were routs at the hands of Purdue and Wisconsin. Following the final regular-season game against Penn State, Saban abruptly resigned to accept the head coaching position with LSU. Saban's assistant head coach and successor, Bobby Williams, then coached MSU to a Citrus Bowl victory over Florida, giving the Spartans an overall record of 10–2 for the 1999 season. It would be the best season in terms of wins for the Spartans since 1965, and it would see the Spartans reach their highest ranking since the 1966 team.[20] Future NFL Head Coach Josh McDaniels served as a Graduate Assistant on Saban's 1999 coaching staff.
LSU
In November 1999, LSU named Nick Saban their 31st head football coach.[21]
2000 – In 2000, the Tigers went 8–4 and won the Peach Bowl. The season was somewhat marred by several lopsided losses, including a 34–17 loss to the Auburn Tigers, a 13–10 loss to the UAB Blazers, and a 41–9 loss to the Florida Gators.
2001 – Saban led LSU to a 10–3 record, including an SEC Championship and a Sugar Bowl victory. After a loss to the Ole Miss Rebels, the Tigers finished the year with six straight wins, including a win over No. 2 Tennessee in the 2001 SEC Championship Game, and a 47–34 win over Illinois in the 2002 Sugar Bowl. It was the first outright SEC championship for LSU since 1986, and the first time the Tigers had won the Sugar Bowl since 1968.
2002 – The season opened with high expectations, but a 26–8 loss at the hands of Virginia Tech raised serious questions about their outlook. However, the Tigers would rebound to win their next six straight, but after a mid-season injury to quarterback Matt Mauck, LSU lost four of its last six games to close the season, including a 21-20 loss at Arkansas, which knocked the Tigers out of the SEC Championship Game, and forced them to share the SEC West Division title with the Razorbacks. LSU also suffered a 35–20 loss to Texas in the Cotton Bowl Classic, and finished 8–5.
2003 – The Tigers started the season with five wins, including a 17–10 victory in Tiger Stadium over the defending SEC champion, and then undefeated, Georgia Bulldogs. LSU lost the following week to Florida, 19–7. After the loss to Florida, LSU did not lose again in the regular season and ended its regular season with a win over the Arkansas Razorbacks to win the SEC West. After winning the SEC West, the Tigers defeated the Georgia Bulldogs in the SEC Championship Game in Atlanta. They were ranked No. 2 in the BCS standings and advanced to play the BCS No. 1 Oklahoma Sooners in the Sugar Bowl, which was the host of the BCS Championship Game in 2003. The Tigers won the game 21–14. The win gave LSU the BCS national championship.
2004 – LSU finished the season 9–3, after losing to the Iowa Hawkeyes in the Capital One Bowl 30–25 on a final play touchdown pass. Other losses that season were on the road at That Cow College 10–9, and a loss on the road to Georgia 45–16. At the end of the 2004 season, Saban left LSU to coach the Miami Dolphins.

 

[RiDLer80]

We will have 9 less scollies to offer too. In two years things will be much better but unless he does the best job in the country in recruiting we won't be playing for a NC, maybe close though.

3 schollies less a year is not an excuse. That's such a small percentage of the players that it should have no impact on our talent or depth. What's that, 1 less redshirt at OL, WR and DB? That will make no difference.

 

[AUcane]

We will have 9 less scollies to offer too. In two years things will be much better but unless he does the best job in the country in recruiting we won't be playing for a NC, maybe close though.

3 schollies less a year is not an excuse. That's such a small percentage of the players that it should have no impact on our talent or depth. What's that, 1 less redshirt at OL, WR and DB? That will make no difference.

Dang, people are already trotting out the 9 schollie losses as an excuse?! That isn't even a good excuse! lolsmh

 

[zone3cane]

I totally get this rebuild taking 5-6 years. That's usually how long it takes.

That said, by year 5-6, I expect that rebuild to yield NCs or NC contention at the end of that rebuild - not 9-3/10-2 seasons.

Who is willing to give Al Golden 5-6 years to "rebuild"??? seriously, thats not how long it takes to rebuild.

This is Jimbos 4th year as the HC at FSU, his 3rd year they won the Orange Bowl, and this year they are on pace to play in the National Title game... that's rebuilding.

Nick Saban in his 1st year went 7-6. 2nd year lost to Utah in the Sugar Bowl, and 3rd year won the National Title at Bama.... that's rebuilding.


Golden doesnt deserve 5-6 years to rebuild, what has he ever done to deserve that type of leeway?... so in 6 years Miami will be able to win the Coastal? c'mon get serious if Golden needs 5-6 years to turn Miami into a team that can stay inside the top 25, then he's not the guy.

If Miami cant beat Duke or win the Coastal this year, then Miami wont be **** in year 5 under him either.

Look, I'm as harsh on the scheme and coaches as the next guy, but what Golden came into and what Saban and Fisher came into at Bama and FSU, respectively, are apples and oranges. There was no NCAA spectre, there was no withholding schollies, there was no awful recruiting by Randy. That stuff makes a difference.

All of this **** has been greatly overblown and is nothing but excuses....

Al Golden lost more recruits b/c of simply being out recruited then b/c of the NCAA issue. Also Al Golden was spose to be the coach that's above all of that bs.... why is the NCAA's "impact" on recruiting such a big deal now, when all he talked about when he 1st got here was how he wasnt a "cadillac shopper" and how he and his staff hang their hat on player development?

So now lets talk about Randy Shannon lol.... who is still buying that bs b/c i'm not. The guys on this team that were recruited by Shannon have been "coached" and "developed" under Golden longer then Shannon and the Juniors have been here for 3 years now under Golden.... Where is the development? Why hasnt he been able to turn a nobody into a beast DT like he did w/ Muhammed Wilkerson??

Most of the D-lineman on this team were more highly recruited then anybody who played at Temple.... so am i to believe that Golden started out w/ less talent at Miami, then he did at Temple?... NO.

He's not getting it done, simple as that. Losing to Duke is WOAT, and imo he can never recover from that.

talking about a 5-6 year rebuild GTFOH... this isnt a rebuild this program was built on sand by a MAC coach who didnt win **** and its already collapsing.

Now all we have is a corch who celebrates any irrelvant bs milestone like it's a ***n accomplishment... just like he did at Temple.

 

[caneaddict]

No, what stares us in the face is a fraud of a coach who can recruit and smooth talk but can't actually win football games.

We will never compete for a NC with Golden.

That's pure speculation. You may be right, you may be wrong. Only time will tell.

I said when Randy was fired, and the depths of his roster mismanagement became clear, that we were probably looking at another Butch-type rebuild. We weren't on probation, but we may as well have been. I'm not sure any NCAA punishment could've been much worse than what Randy did to the roster. His last two classes, plus the one AG had to throw together in a few weeks after he was hired...that's what we're seeing the results of right now (and last year). Throw in the NCAA mess after AG was hired, and it removed all doubt for me that this would be at least a Butch-type rebuild. So, yes, I am prepared for it, because that's what I expected all along.

Edit: I'll also add that the premature departures of a lot of the depth on defense (Paul, Finnie, GT) has really hurt. To me, the most valid criticism of AG is the failures at recruiting DTs, which is why we see the JUCOs and Renfrows being brought in. I also believe that he misjudged how good the offense would be this year. I don't believe we would've seen as many of the schematic changes on defense this year if he'd known that Morris and the offense would turn the ball over and struggle to sustain drives.

Spot on post!!!

 

[datdude81]

I just want this guy to win against one respectable opponent and smash the little guys I have yet to see that

I thought Florida was respectable because they were at full strength I could be wrong but giving the fact that they are not even
Going to a bowl game he needs to go back to the drawing board

 

[SmokeyRone]

This was Golden's "Shanmnon 2009 Season". Third year, expectations of competing for a very weak Coastal, and total failure.

 

[Pentagon Cane]

Perhaps an elite coach like Saban would've had this thing rolling in year 2 or 3, but this is the hand we were dealt. It took Butch 6 years. I'm not comparing Golden or his situation to Butch (although there are some parallels). I'm just saying that regardless of the confluence of circumstances, it took 6 years.

I don't think we're contenders next year (unless Olsen wins the job and balls out like Johnny Football or something), but I think we'll be at that level in 2015 and definitely 2016 if Golden continues to recruit well.

I think the offense is going to thrive. There's just too much talent coming in, including probably the best O-line haul in the country. The wealth of playmakers on offense alone will keep the program from bottoming out.

Whether or not you find that acceptable, are you emotionally prepared for it? Because that's what's staring us in the face.

When Nick Saban took over Michigan State, they went on a 4-year probation, had zero bowl bans, and lost 9 total scholarships. MSU went on probation his second season in East Lansing. He was 25-22-1 his first 4 seasons at MSU. When he rolled in from the Brownies at age 44, there was no guarantee he would be what he is today.

BTW, Michigan State wanted to run Mark Dantonio out of East Lansing at the end of 2009. He then has back to back 11-win seasons. And this year he's about to win the Legends division. He was 18-17 at Cincinnati when he was hired. Funny business.

Michigan State is and always has been a crap program. When Saban got there they hadn't won anything since the 1960s. That program is nothing like Miami.

When comparing programs, you should compare apples to apples. Compare what he did at LSU and Bama to what Corch Al's doing at UM because those are programs in the same tier in the college football hierarchy.

News flash, you're somewhat delusional my friend with all due respect. The University of Miami is not in the same hemisphere financially as the University of Alabama or Louisiana State University or has an alumni base anywhere close to either institution. Miami also hasn't had a 10-win season in a decade. What Miami did from 1983 to 1992 and from 2000-2003 as a private university will probably never be duplicated. That being said Miami does have a distinct advantage where itrecruits in one of the most fertile areas in the nation.

So when Golden got to Miami, newsflash, Miami was a crap program. It had just fired its second head coach in 4 years. Prior to that it had fired 1 head coach, Carl Selmer in its history.

Hopefully, there will be changes. Hopefully, Golden will be successful eventually. If not, then the carousel of head coaches continue.

 

[WhatTheHell]

Michigan State now = Miami

Jesus some of you have ******* lost it.