Are you prepared for the rebuild to take 5 years?

[LuCane]

Lu's patience really boggles my mind.

My friends (some of whom read the board) would laugh their asses off at the irony of that statement. Maybe it's pathetic to say that practicing patience on the board has made me better w/ it in "real life."

 

[sebastian91]

Perhaps an elite coach like Saban would've had this thing rolling in year 2 or 3, but this is the hand we were dealt. It took Butch 6 years. I'm not comparing Golden or his situation to Butch (although there are some parallels). I'm just saying that regardless of the confluence of circumstances, it took 6 years.

I don't think we're contenders next year (unless Olsen wins the job and balls out like Johnny Football or something), but I think we'll be at that level in 2015 and definitely 2016 if Golden continues to recruit well.

I think the offense is going to thrive. There's just too much talent coming in, including probably the best O-line haul in the country. The wealth of playmakers on offense alone will keep the program from bottoming out.

Whether or not you find that acceptable, are you emotionally prepared for it? Because that's what's staring us in the face.

Sigh. 30 scholarships revoked man. Butch had a ridiculous task of bringing us back and he did it in 5-6 years. Still amazing what he did for this University.
We should be sending him thankyou cards and dufflebags for the nice early 00s run we had.

"National Champs to National Chumps - Thanks Butch" (or something like that). That's our short-sighted fanbase for you.

Wasn't that Uncle Luke? Or was that the banner they flew over the OB?

Banner.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1013861/index.htm

 

[LuCane]

I only have questions.

In year 5, with guys like Crawford, Burns, Bush and Jenkins at DB (presuming Tracy leaves, as is the consistent buzz), our LBs having grown up in Golden's system, and guys like Mccord, AQM as upperclassmen…

Will we have enough talent then?
Will we have a different philosophy - offensively and defensively - because we have "matured talent?"
Will we still play defense the same way?
Will our players, together, play beyond their individual talent levels or below?
Will you adjust based on difficulty of schedule for any given year?
Will we be able to beat the "more talented" opponent?

What indicators, negative or positive, do you currently have for any of the answers to the questions above?

This isn't directed at you, Able. Those aren't rhetorical questions, either. Would sincerely like to see what people answer to those questions.

Ask me in year 5. I don't have a crystal ball.

Most people are not expecting us to be at championship level or even really battling against those types right now. That much was obvious before the season when they needed to go out and get Renfro to play their style of Nose. However, are you really saying that anything that happens in the meanwhile is not even acknowledged as a data point? Not even the positive stuff?

You can use whatever you want ('indicators') to formulate your own projections, but the only 'data points' that can be used to answer your questions are the actual data points from year 5.

Do you look at scenarios now - narrow and broad decisions, results, philosophy - and take anything away or do you simply tell yourself "I'm going to wait until year 5 to make any judgments?"

 

[nystateofmind]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1013861/index.htm

"The return to glory won't happen this year, but Miami has an enviable foundation of experienced underclassmen, along with junior tailback Edgerrin James, who is one of only three backs in Hurricanes history to rush for more than 1,000 yards in a season. Sophomore wideouts Reggie Wayne and Daryl Jones constitute one of the best young pass-catching duos in the nation. Sophomores Damione Lewis, a defensive tackle, and Dan Morgan, a linebacker, are All-Americas-in-waiting."

Jesus.

 

[Dandycane]

5 year rebuild boyzzzzzzz. I said it when Randall left his stink bomb for others to sanitize.

I say it again to all the young dreamers who watch to many 1980's and 2001 Cane replays in their heads.

 

[CanesAreAble]

I only have questions.

In year 5, with guys like Crawford, Burns, Bush and Jenkins at DB (presuming Tracy leaves, as is the consistent buzz), our LBs having grown up in Golden's system, and guys like Mccord, AQM as upperclassmen…

Will we have enough talent then?
Will we have a different philosophy - offensively and defensively - because we have "matured talent?"
Will we still play defense the same way?
Will our players, together, play beyond their individual talent levels or below?
Will you adjust based on difficulty of schedule for any given year?
Will we be able to beat the "more talented" opponent?

What indicators, negative or positive, do you currently have for any of the answers to the questions above?

This isn't directed at you, Able. Those aren't rhetorical questions, either. Would sincerely like to see what people answer to those questions.

In year 5, yes, we will have enough talent. Golden will have had 4 full cycles.

Now I have no idea if philosophy will change or anything like that. We don't really have much to go on. We have almost 3 Miami seasons, and 5 Temple seasons. The results at Temple are encouraging; he wouldn't have gotten the Miami job if they weren't. He sent guys to the NFL and turned a moribund program around. Statistically, his 2010 defense looked pretty good. I don't know about their philosophy or anything like that, though. People have shown highlights of the NIU and Penn State games, but it's hard to glean much from another team's highlight reel. All of the positive plays obviously wouldn't be included.

Philosophically, I can say with absolute certainty that Golden wants what everyone wants: stop the run, create negative plays, pressure the QB, force turnovers, and get off the field on 3rd down. There's no way he wouldn't want those things. Is his philosophy the best way to achieve those things? I have no idea.

 

[LuCane]

5 year rebuild boyzzzzzzz. I said it when Randall left his stink bomb for others to sanitize.

I say it again to all the young dreamers who watch to many 1980's and 2001 Cane replays in their heads.

It's unclear what you and Sebastian91 are suggesting. I'm not asking for you to speak for him, but are you suggesting we just sit tight and accept whatever is coming to us? Stay the course/process?

 

[sebastian91]

I only have questions.

In year 5, with guys like Crawford, Burns, Bush and Jenkins at DB (presuming Tracy leaves, as is the consistent buzz), our LBs having grown up in Golden's system, and guys like Mccord, AQM as upperclassmen…

Will we have enough talent then?
Will we have a different philosophy - offensively and defensively - because we have "matured talent?"
Will we still play defense the same way?
Will our players, together, play beyond their individual talent levels or below?
Will you adjust based on difficulty of schedule for any given year?
Will we be able to beat the "more talented" opponent?

What indicators, negative or positive, do you currently have for any of the answers to the questions above?

This isn't directed at you, Able. Those aren't rhetorical questions, either. Would sincerely like to see what people answer to those questions.

Ask me in year 5. I don't have a crystal ball.

Most people are not expecting us to be at championship level or even really battling against those types right now. That much was obvious before the season when they needed to go out and get Renfro to play their style of Nose. However, are you really saying that anything that happens in the meanwhile is not even acknowledged as a data point? Not even the positive stuff?

You can use whatever you want ('indicators') to formulate your own projections, but the only 'data points' that can be used to answer your questions are the actual data points from year 5.

Do you look at scenarios now - narrow and broad decisions, results, philosophy - and take anything away or do you simply tell yourself "I'm going to wait until year 5 to make any judgments?"

There are infinite possibilities of events that can happen between now and year 5. Using the past to predict the future is a dangerous game.

 

[sebastian91]

5 year rebuild boyzzzzzzz. I said it when Randall left his stink bomb for others to sanitize.

I say it again to all the young dreamers who watch to many 1980's and 2001 Cane replays in their heads.

It's unclear what you and Sebastian91 are suggesting. I'm not asking for you to speak for him, but are you suggesting we just sit tight and accept whatever is coming to us? Stay the course/process?

What's unclear? I'm not suggesting anything other than that I fully expected this to be a lengthy rebuild based on what Randy did to the roster (carried over into the next recruiting class).

 

[LuCane]

Ask me in year 5. I don't have a crystal ball.

Most people are not expecting us to be at championship level or even really battling against those types right now. That much was obvious before the season when they needed to go out and get Renfro to play their style of Nose. However, are you really saying that anything that happens in the meanwhile is not even acknowledged as a data point? Not even the positive stuff?

You can use whatever you want ('indicators') to formulate your own projections, but the only 'data points' that can be used to answer your questions are the actual data points from year 5.

Do you look at scenarios now - narrow and broad decisions, results, philosophy - and take anything away or do you simply tell yourself "I'm going to wait until year 5 to make any judgments?"

There are infinite possibilities of events that can happen between now and year 5. Using the past to predict the future is a dangerous game.

With stuff like that, I'll keep the possibility open that you are actually Coach Golden. Yes, "using the past to predict the future is a dangerous game," but not using current events that need to be looked at is also dangerous.

In another thread, you state that "our coaches need to do better with what they have." I take that to mean they're not currently doing so.

Despite what you mentioned regarding fan impatience, Butch made changes. We didn't go in a straight line from Year 1 of rebuilding to Year 6 of greatness. Things happened. There were data points used to make decisions. We didn't just "wait" for our talent to mature.

So on one end it sounds like you suggest patience and on another end your comments (and comparison to Butch) sound like you think some changes need to be made. I don't know if it's intentional, but it comes across as convenient or, in the alternative, unclear.

 

[Copeseticman]

I completely believe that with another couple of recruiting classes (ie the 2014 class are juniors/ RS sophomores) without the NCAA storm over the program Golden can rebuild this program. His first recruiting class (the current juniors or RS sophomores) aren't panning out too well, particularly on the D Line. But, I have faith that Golden will continue to bring in players that will allow us to compete for ACC championships and BCS bowl berths.

 

[Consigliere]

What can we expect next year then?

 

[Copeseticman]

What can we expect next year then?

IMO, another year of mediocrity.

Here is the schedule:
FL A&M
Ark St
@ Neb
Cinci
Duke
FL St
UNC
Pitts
Ga Tech
Louisville
UVA
VaTech

Conservatively, I would think Nebraska and FL State are losses. They play 7 other ACC games, hopefully they can go 5-2. FL A&M, Ark St and Cinci are wins. I think 8-4 is a realistic expectation. Trust me, I dont want the team to end up 8-4 and be playing for a medicore level bowl game. With that being said, I think Golden deserves some time to build this team without the NCAA cloud.

 

[CaneHammer]

Most people are not expecting us to be at championship level or even really battling against those types right now. That much was obvious before the season when they needed to go out and get Renfro to play their style of Nose. However, are you really saying that anything that happens in the meanwhile is not even acknowledged as a data point? Not even the positive stuff?

You can use whatever you want ('indicators') to formulate your own projections, but the only 'data points' that can be used to answer your questions are the actual data points from year 5.

Do you look at scenarios now - narrow and broad decisions, results, philosophy - and take anything away or do you simply tell yourself "I'm going to wait until year 5 to make any judgments?"

There are infinite possibilities of events that can happen between now and year 5. Using the past to predict the future is a dangerous game.

With stuff like that, I'll keep the possibility open that you are actually Coach Golden. Yes, "using the past to predict the future is a dangerous game," but not using current events that need to be looked at is also dangerous.

In another thread, you state that "our coaches need to do better with what they have." I take that to mean they're not currently doing so.

Despite what you mentioned regarding fan impatience, Butch made changes. We didn't go in a straight line from Year 1 of rebuilding to Year 6 of greatness. Things happened. There were data points used to make decisions. We didn't just "wait" for our talent to mature.

So on one end it sounds like you suggest patience and on another end your comments (and comparison to Butch) sound like you think some changes need to be made. I don't know if it's intentional, but it comes across as convenient or, in the alternative, unclear.

If Al does not look in the mirror and realize he has no answer for what is going wrong with the defense and bring someone in to fix it, then he deserves every ounce of the flaming hot seat that he will have next year (and even this year).

I guarantee he is losing sleep at night right now. I say that cause I would be. I would be calling every defensive minded ******* I knew to take a look at film and tell me where I am ******* up. Hat in hand.

Next year would be the convenient spot to re-invent themselves. I would be traveling my defensive staff to some other programs to discuss philosophy. You will have some guys with whom to build some nasty pass rush around (AQM, 17, and even some of the froshes).

That staff in Tampa Bay would be on speed dial. You have three guys off the top of the head that have experience at the collegiate level. All of them are directly or indirectly from the Jimmy Johnson coaching tree.

I would even hit up Al Groh. I guarantee he knows where he ****ed up at GT. Adapt or find something new to do.

 

[BosCane]

We've seen no progress in 3 years. What evidence do we have that we should expect progress in the next 2?

As long as we're running this defense, I think we lose 2 or 3 games a year minimum, regardless of recruiting/talent.

 

[deleted3746]

I only have questions.

In year 5, with guys like Crawford, Burns, Bush and Jenkins at DB (presuming Tracy leaves, as is the consistent buzz), our LBs having grown up in Golden's system, and guys like Mccord, AQM as upperclassmen…

Will we have enough talent then?
There'll be more than there is now. We'll always have player talent. We need coaching talent

Will we have a different philosophy - offensively and defensively - because we have "matured talent?"
Coley will be gone, but we'll see a similar offensive set. Defensively, we're ****ed if changes aren't made

Will we still play defense the same way?
Going off AG's statements, we'll be in 3-4 which allow us to be more aggressive

Will our players, together, play beyond their individual talent levels or below?
Some will play beyond, some below

Will you adjust based on difficulty of schedule for any given year?
Schedule is irrelevant to me. We're in the ****** Coastal which we should win every year

Will we be able to beat the "more talented" opponent?
Florida had more talent IMO. Our Canes have been losing to teams with less talent for 10 years straight now. This staff hasn't progressed like I expected them to. I want to see how this team responds the rest of the way

What indicators, negative or positive, do you currently have for any of the answers to the questions above?
I'm still an AG supporter, but what happens the rest of the season will tell me a lot. Also, if he has the testicular fortitude to make changes on his staff, that will tell me the success of Miami football is more important than a friendship to him. If he's going to stay blindly loyal to his guys, we'll be 8-4/7-5 every year and the AD will be forced to fire him in a couplefew years with pressure from fans, alums, and former players.

As long as he has a winning record, is graduating players, no police blotter drama, I can see him being given a lot of leeway by the admin. How long will 8-4 be good enough for the admin? We'll have to wait and see I guess.

With AG as CEO, we're gonna need some killers at OC/DC if we want to compete for a NC. I'm basing that off of what I've seent so far. We don't/won't have that, we'll be a mediocre, underachieving, soft *** team his entire tenure.



This isn't directed at you, Able. Those aren't rhetorical questions, either. Would sincerely like to see what people answer to those questions.

See bold above.

 

[Pennmed Canefan]

Sure because there's no other option other than to stop being a fan. I just hope that the coaches are doing some serious evaluating and soul searching and not just concluding that the players aren't great and therefore it'll work out soon because defensively there's no evidence for that.

 

[PGCountySoulCane]

I completely believe that with another couple of recruiting classes (ie the 2014 class are juniors/ RS sophomores) without the NCAA storm over the program Golden can rebuild this program. His first recruiting class (the current juniors or RS sophomores) aren't panning out too well, particularly on the D Line. But, I have faith that Golden will continue to bring in players that will allow us to compete for ACC championships and BCS bowl berths.

Yeah, I agree with most of that but you do something to to at least plug the leak right now. Simply waiting until players "mature" is not a viable option. Say what you want about what he inherited but next yr's front 7 will be all his. Where is Hamilton? Ivery? Briscoe? Hoilett? O'Donnell? Terry? Witt? Moore? Blue? These are all his guys that either aren't here or won't be playing anytime soon. Looking at the '14 class, it doesn't look as though they will play AT ALL. So then next year he's back to playing freshmen and blaming it on players being too young again. When does the cycle stop? At some point patience has to wear out.

 

[LuCane]

Sure because there's no other option other than to stop being a fan. I just hope that the coaches are doing some serious evaluating and soul searching and not just concluding that the players aren't great and therefore it'll work out soon because defensively there's no evidence for that.

My hope is pretty much the same. It would seem practical. Coach Golden seems like a practical guy and has shown those tendencies in other aspects. However, some of his comments contradict that's what he's doing or that this "serious" evaluating and soul searching is going on. Two ways to look at that: (1) take those comments at face value (which causes me concern), or (2) assume he's just talking to the media in one way but acting in another way.

 

[terdferguson]

IMO, some of you guys are barking up the wrong tree talking about recruiting and years in the system, depth, time. At this point it's really simple. We go in an entirely different direction with the defense or Golden will fail. I cannot see any other option. What is undeniable at this point is that Golden and Donofrio and their defensive system will never, ever work here, period. They stink at coaching or it's too complex for the players or the system just doesn't work or our players are dumb, I don't know and I don't care. It just doesn't work. Most of the guys playing on defense have been training under these guys for 2-3 years. If they look like this after years of training then it's not going to happen...ever. Better talent will yield better results but what that will mean is that our defense will be elevated from bottom of the barrel to middle of the pack.

So, Golden will either bring in a new dc, relinquish control to this guy who will implement a new system or Golden will fail. This is the prerequisite to golden succeeding and us being "back." All this other talk about depth and recruiting and time is rendered moot without this happening first.