Are you prepared for the rebuild to take 5 years?

[westcoastcanes]

The video was like 3:30 long. Every single play on the video had a missed tackle or several. Jenkins got juked out of his jockstrap on one of them that Rodgers tackled in the endzone. I think the weight gain really hurt Jimmy cause he wasnt all that fast to begin with and only has 1 TFL all year.

The 3:30 long video I just watched doesn't match up with what you have stated. The play where 31 gets beat for the TD throw is aided by the fact our two interior linemen are playing patty cake with Duke OL and the QB is sitting comfortably. The first TD at the goal line in the video shows Gaines "being there" (as you state), but it's 2 Duke guys (QB + blocker) versus Gaines. The long run by the Duke RB where he cuts back on 30? He's already 15 yards downfield untouched when he makes the cutback. 59 got caught up in the wash inside because it was a well-designed play. The offense manipulated our defense and you can see guys clear as they chased motion.

Our players aren't great. Guys like 59 and 31 and 30 struggle. Obviously. But, to just chalk it up to poor individual talent is questionable. You know what most coordinators say about stopping a ball carrier? Do it in the backfield - before he gets started. You know where our guys are forced to tackle ball carriers? 3-4 yards downfield, at least. You can say "well, that's on our DL," but it also falls partly on their assignments.

this drives me so crazy. i am amazed they have bamboozled a couple of decent DL recruits in this class to get on board, but i have a feeling as soon as kids see chad thomas and wyche or moten standing up and hand fighting instead of gunning for blood, we will be forced to make this work with diamonds in the rough if goldens awesome scheme that requires all americans to not be the worst in the conference is still here.

there is no knowing things would have been better this year and last in a standard, 1 gap attacking defense, but there is no way it would have been worse, it is simply not possible.

really, it is our own faults we got too high, and subsequently are crashing back down after the lucky 7 cupcake intro we had on this years schedule. it was unreasonable to expect the worst defense in the schools history to get much better with the same players in the same scheme.

 

[LuCane]

I just went to youtube and watched the Duke highlights cause I'm a *********. Gaines was there to make a play 3 out of 4 times on Connettes tds. The pass to the rb down the sideline into the endzone, TC was covering him. Gaines tackled 22 as he was about to make the tackle after 5 yards or so, then highsmith takes a bad angle and whiffs, the dude runs like 60 yards. Guy runs over 31 and i think 22 then carries guys down to the 2 on a 18 yard run.

Golden has to be playing these guys because they were loyal, stuck with the program and bought into his ideals. There really is no other logical explanation.

Next year will be all Golden's guys so the best better play.

Our LBs were awful on WR screens in that game. There were several of those that should've been TFLs or stopped for minimal gains, but our LBs either missed the tackle, or they were too slow to pursue.

The video was like 3:30 long. Every single play on the video had a missed tackle or several. Jenkins got juked out of his jockstrap on one of them that Rodgers tackled in the endzone. I think the weight gain really hurt Jimmy cause he wasnt all that fast to begin with and only has 1 TFL all year.

The 3:30 long video I just watched doesn't match up with what you have stated. The play where 31 gets beat for the TD throw is aided by the fact our two interior linemen are playing patty cake with Duke OL and the QB is sitting comfortably. The first TD at the goal line in the video shows Gaines "being there" (as you state), but it's 2 Duke guys (QB + blocker) versus Gaines. The long run by the Duke RB where he cuts back on 30? He's already 15 yards downfield untouched when he makes the cutback. 59 got caught up in the wash inside because it was a well-designed play. The offense manipulated our defense and you can see guys clear as they chased motion.

Our players aren't great. Guys like 59 and 31 and 30 struggle. Obviously. But, to just chalk it up to poor individual talent is questionable. You know what most coordinators say about stopping a ball carrier? Do it in the backfield - before he gets started. You know where our guys are forced to tackle ball carriers? 3-4 yards downfield, at least. You can say "well, that's on our DL," but it also falls partly on their assignments.

Here's the 3:30 video I found. If you found something different, link, please. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpXXiwoNCC4

I already went through this with you yesterday and yes this is the video I watched. What does a lineman have to due with TC covering the running back. I didnt say anything about getting pressure, would that help make a worse throw sure but he still almost fell down chasing him. And Gaines is blocked by a 190 lb running back twice and still doesnt even lay a hand on Connette, i dont mean tackle him, he doesnt even touch him. How bout Gaines tackling Rodgers instead of the running back, then him carrying 3 guys.

And I know you dont like to talk bad about players but they are getting a $200k free education. I am not personally attacking them by pointing out their shortcomings as football players.
Its talent and coaching I already said that in numerous threads. And since everyone thinks scheme is such a huge deal I will copy my post from another thread.
4-3 1 gap, 3-4 2 gap, 4-2-5, dont think its going to matter much. Any half way decent offensive coordinator will still find the weaknesses.
Fire all the coaches if you want I dont want to argue that anymore. I just want people to objectively look at this and tell me there still wouldnt be problems.

Randy's Defense
07-26.0 ppg
NFL-Gooden, K Phillips, Mccarthy, Campbell, Sharpton, (underused Dixon), Freshman Van Dyke, Bailey
08-24.2 ppg
NFL-Spence, Sharpton, Harris, Bailey, Dixon, Mccarthy(injured), Van Dyke, Forston
09-22.2 ppg
NFL-Sharpton, Mccarthy, Harris, Shields, Spence, Bailey, Van Dyke
10-20.7 ppg
NFL-Mccarthy, Spence, Bailey, Harris, Vernon, Forston, Van Dyke, Freshman Mcgee

Golden's Defense
11-20.1 ppg
NFL-Spence, Mcgee, Forston, Ray Ray, Vernon, Freshman Perryman, Chickillo
12-30.5 ppg
NFL-Mcgee, Perry, Chick, ?
13-25.5 ppg
NFL-Perry, Chick, ?

Golden's first year D with NFL players suspended 1-6 weeks was actually better PPG than any defense Shannon had over the previous 4 years.

Now maybe we would have beat Duke and VT with another scheme, but whos to say we beat Florida, Wake, NC, GT playing something else.

If you don't know what a lineman has to do with a LB covering a RB downfield, there's no point in discussing. Gaines may be blocked by a 190 pound RB, but you didn't even bother to mention the 2 on 1 the first time around. Interesting.

My post is not about scheme. My post is that you took plain video and turned it into what you wanted to see.

 

[QuadCityCane]

Was he not there to make a play like I said in my original post? Do I not see players shed blocks and make plays in every game. He had 3 chances. You are seeing exactly what you want to see in that video as you claim I am. That video is full of bad football.

 

[zoisgod]

im not prepared actually. i was told we were in a 3/4 year process, 3/4 yrs ago

 

[LuCane]

Was he not there to make a play like I said in my original post? Do I not see players shed blocks and make plays in every game. He had 3 chances. You are seeing exactly what you want to see in that video as you claim I am. That video is full of bad football.

Ridiculous. There are so many other examples of poor individual play. Asking a LB to shed a blocker and make a tackle at the 1 yard line.

 

[immars]

Love this thread. In the end, after having read the entire thread, it sums up to this: by not changing his philosophy and scheme golden is cutting his nose despite of his face. Call it stubbornness, or call it "just not a good coach." All in all he is not and has not adapted to his present personnel and to his geographic advantage that produces amazing athletes that play with a mind-set and skill set for years. Those same players' skill-set is enhanced by the fsu's and Bama's. Not by what golden and co. Have planned. Here, players are to take a step back, get re-wired, and then hopefully develop and prude in year 3-4. Not happening. Players don't stay that long. We ask players to read, think, react and chase....when for years the same players are taught attack, play, use athleticism and speed.

 

[AlexCane]

Love this thread. In the end, after having read the entire thread, it sums up to this: by not changing his philosophy and scheme golden is cutting his nose despite of his face. Call it stubbornness, or call it "just not a good coach." All in all he is not and has not adapted to his present personnel and to his geographic advantage that produces amazing athletes that play with a mind-set and skill set for years. Those same players' skill-set is enhanced by the fsu's and Bama's. Not by what golden and co. Have planned. Here, players are to take a step back, get re-wired, and then hopefully develop and prude in year 3-4. Not happening. Players don't stay that long. We ask players to read, think, react and chase....when for years the same players are taught attack, play, use athleticism and speed.

I'm not sure that's how the phrase goes ... lol.

 

[FreePawn]

"Cutting off his nose to spite his face"

 

[EmileLilly]

This "Rebuild" isn't going to take much longer. Either Al wins big in 2014/2015 or he is gone, its that simple. The next coach won't have the cup empty of talent (judging by our 2014 recruiting class), so either way I see the program winning one way or another.

 

[BosCane]

This "Rebuild" isn't going to take much longer. Either Al wins big in 2014/2015 or he is gone, its that simple. The next coach won't have the cup empty of talent (judging by our 2014 recruiting class), so either way I see the program winning one way or another.

I hope you're right, but I'm not so sure. I can see Al sticking around a long time with a string of 8, 9, and 10 win seasons.....and no big-picture success.

 

[HarryCarayisGoat]

Sometimes I wear socks, sometimes I don't.

Not sure what else to say.

 

[terdferguson]

This "Rebuild" isn't going to take much longer. Either Al wins big in 2014/2015 or he is gone, its that simple. The next coach won't have the cup empty of talent (judging by our 2014 recruiting class), so either way I see the program winning one way or another.

I hope you're right, but I'm not so sure. I can see Al sticking around a long time with a string of 8, 9, and 10 win seasons.....and no big-picture success.

Depends on how we look doing it. We're an 8-9 win team this year and the heat is turning up big time on Al and company because we didn't win the coastal and our defense looks like crap. And that's with the cover of all the ncaa stuff and Al only being in year 3. If we don't show improvement and instead keep middling along with 8-9 wins, fans will stop coming and Al will be moving on.

 

[The Franchise]

This "Rebuild" isn't going to take much longer. Either Al wins big in 2014/2015 or he is gone, its that simple. The next coach won't have the cup empty of talent (judging by our 2014 recruiting class), so either way I see the program winning one way or another.

I hope you're right, but I'm not so sure. I can see Al sticking around a long time with a string of 8, 9, and 10 win seasons.....and no big-picture success.

Depends on how we look doing it. We're an 8-9 win team this year and the heat is turning up big time on Al and company because we didn't win the coastal and our defense looks like crap. And that's with the cover of all the ncaa stuff and Al only being in year 3. If we don't show improvement and instead keep middling along with 8-9 wins, fans will stop coming and Al will be moving on.

I can guarantee you that if Corch Al doesn't overhaul his defense and grease Corch Duh this offseason, support for him will evaporate. It's going to be a very hard sell for him and UM is going to struggle building any momentum going into next season if he doesn't make those changes.

If he goes into next season with Duh', then UM fans will think he's put his friendship above the program. If you think the stadium was empty this year wait till next year. There will be constant booing and grumbling, and boosters will start withholding financial support. It'll get really ugly if he ignores the obvious and keeps his buddy around. He'll at least give himself a chance if he greases that greaseball.

 

[Consigliere]

Sometimes I wear socks, sometimes I don't.

Not sure what else to say.

What more can I say?

Sometimes I rhyme slow, sometimes I rhyme quick.

 

[crossover22[]_[]]

I've said all along I'm fine with s 5 year rebuild. The reason I say that is because his first class almost doesn't count. So his second class will be seniors in his 5th year. So his juniors snd seniors will prove how good of a recruiter and talent evaluater he is. We all know how big of a mess randy left. Now some fans think it shouldn't take 5 years and its hard to argue that. But like you pointed out it took butch 6 years.

 

[SmokeyRone]

We are no better than we were under Coker and Shannon as of now. Still a 3-5th Coastal team.

 

[HulkaCaniac]

I only have questions.

In year 5, with guys like Crawford, Burns, Bush and Jenkins at DB (presuming Tracy leaves, as is the consistent buzz), our LBs having grown up in Golden's system, and guys like Mccord, AQM as upperclassmen…

Will we have enough talent then?
Will we have a different philosophy - offensively and defensively - because we have "matured talent?"
Will we still play defense the same way?
Will our players, together, play beyond their individual talent levels or below?
Will you adjust based on difficulty of schedule for any given year?
Will we be able to beat the "more talented" opponent?

What indicators, negative or positive, do you currently have for any of the answers to the questions above?

This isn't directed at you, Able. Those aren't rhetorical questions, either. Would sincerely like to see what people answer to those questions.

I think all your questions were answered against FSU.