Are you prepared for the rebuild to take 5 years?

[Jax Cane]

Jimbo had more then 3 commitments in the recruiting class when he took over F$U

 

[CANE4LIFE]

Perhaps an elite coach like Saban would've had this thing rolling in year 2 or 3, but this is the hand we were dealt. It took Butch 6 years. I'm not comparing Golden or his situation to Butch (although there are some parallels). I'm just saying that regardless of the confluence of circumstances, it took 6 years.

I don't think we're contenders next year (unless Olsen wins the job and balls out like Johnny Football or something), but I think we'll be at that level in 2015 and definitely 2016 if Golden continues to recruit well.

I think the offense is going to thrive. There's just too much talent coming in, including probably the best O-line haul in the country. The wealth of playmakers on offense alone will keep the program from bottoming out.

Whether or not you find that acceptable, are you emotionally prepared for it? Because that's what's staring us in the face.

Haven't read through whole thread, so apologize if this has been mentioned ...

It's taken FSU/Jimbo 4 years (or 6 years if you include his tenure as OC/co-head coach) to get FSU to elite status.

Using Jimbo as an example, it took him 4 years to get to elite status, that's fine. One key difference being that historically, great coaches start to turn the corner in their third season, when their impact on the program really starts to show up on the field.

Jimbo went 12-2 and won the ACC in his third season. His two losses came against an 11-2 UF team by 11 points, and a 1 point loss on the road to NC State.
He had the 19th total offense and 2nd total defense in the country.

We've blown back-to-back chances to win the Coastal, appear to have made no improvements on defense despite returning 10 starters, have lost 3 straight, and were out-coached and outplayed in 3 straight contests. Nothing on the field really gives anyone hope or any indication that Golden will suddenly lumber onto the field with a juggernaut behind him. Not me, at least.

I'd agree with you that year #3 is key for a new head coach. Your 1st class as a HC is now upperclassmen. But, you can't compare year 3 Golden to year 3 Jimbo. One, there's that NCAA thing. Two, Jimbo didn't have to jump in mid-stream and try to pick up where previous coach left off like Golden had to do since Jimbo had already been there 2 years.

Personally, I give him a pass for that class because of the circumstances. I think his 3rd season is likely closer to what we see next season.

That being said, that first class was still a failure, by and large. The best player is God knows where (EJ) and way too many academic casualties. 7 of the 18 are no longer here. That's bad. That failure is on his lap (justified or not, fair or not).

Its in his lap only with impatient fans. But it should not be. He was brought in at the 11th hour, when we basically had NO class, and had to throw together a class at the last minute. Most schools at least have SOME number of commits on board by then, Shannon had what, like 3 guys committed when he was canned? It was DISASTEROUS. I dont blame Golden for just going on a mad scramble to grab whatever bodies he could. What choice did he have? He had no ties to SoFla. No ties to the program. He was starting from scratch at the 11th hour.

He's had 2 classes that are HIS. The biggest flops have definitely been at DT. He's also had some bad luck that has impacted us, though you cant really blame him for. Guys like Forston, Streeter, Miller, etc leaving early. His first season, when he had to start with EIGHT of his upperclassmen suspended, including his starting QB. His best pass rusher suspended for most of the season. Then we lose our second best LB because the kid was a head case who couldnt stop getting in trouble, and Gabe Terry, who had a lot of potential but also couldnt stop getting in trouble. That wasnt AG's fault. Top all that off with the NCAA mess, and really, I dont think people fully appreciate what a sh*t show this has been. That doesnt excuse the trainwreck that our defense is, but it cuts AG some slack in my book. The man needs time to implement his plan and get his system entrenched here. Any coach deserves that. And he hasnt exactly had a clean slate to work with. He's had two classes that have been his, and a third coming in, which if it sticks, looks to be one of the best we have EVER signed. If he can just get a good DC and we can get a consistent and decent QB, I think AG is building the culture and depth and talent that is going to lay about 80% of the foundation this program is going to need to break into the elite ranks in another two years.

 

[SmokeyRone]

If it takes 5 yrs from this year that's ridiculous we crucified radio after year 3 when the shirt was obvious

Radio even played a tougher schedule

Crucified Radio after his disasterous third year (another Coastal choke and puke), BUT everyone gave him a fourth year. (and when his fourth year was worse than his previous three, it was time to go).

If Golden's 2014 is worse than this season, then there is no hope of a 5th year turnaround, IMO.

If he keeps Dorito, the 2014 defense BETTER be light years above anything we've seen the last 3 years. If not, Golden has to go.

 

[The Franchise]

so what if Golden wins the rest of the season including bowl game?

The season's still a failure. We're playing 2 high school teams and a meaningless pre-New Year's bowl game. He had two chances to win the Coastal and turned them both down. Got blown out by 2 shtty offenses. Anything he does after those disgraceful flops this season is a failure unless it's his firing of Duh.

 

[SmokeyRone]

so what if Golden wins the rest of the season including bowl game?

The season's still a failure. We're playing 2 high school teams and a meaningless pre-New Year's bowl game. He had two chances to win the Coastal and turned them both down. Got blown out by 2 shtty offenses. Anything he does after those disgraceful flops this season is a failure unless it's his firing of Duh.

4th in the Coastal is a failure per se.

In three years, the program is worse than Duke? Is that coaching up?

 

[rok]

We have the talent to be pretty good defensively.

DE Chick/Hamilton/Harris/Moten
DT Wyche/Moore/Jenkins
DE Pierre/Kamalu/Thomas/Valentine

OLB AQM/Figs/Smith/Jackson
ILB Perryman/Grace/Young
ILB Kirby/Blue/Owens/McCray
OLB McCord/Armbrister/Hoilett

CB Gunter/Burns
SS Bush/Carter
FS Jenkins/Carter
CB Howard/Elder
NB Crawford/Bethel

 

[CanesAreAble]

We have the talent to be pretty good defensively.

DE Chick/Hamilton/Harris/Moten
DT Wyche/Moore/Jenkins
DE Pierre/Kamalu/Thomas/Valentine

OLB AQM/Figs/Smith/Jackson
ILB Perryman/Grace/Young
ILB Kirby/Blue/Owens/McCray
OLB McCord/Armbrister/Hoilett

CB Gunter/Burns
SS Bush/Carter
FS Jenkins/Carter
CB Howard/Elder
NB Crawford/Bethel

I don't think Perryman is coming back.

On paper that looks solid, but we haven't shown any consistency yet.

 

[rok]

THANKS AL for burning the redshirts of Alex Gall and Standish Dobard.

No, really. THANKS AL

 

[rok]

We have the talent to be pretty good defensively.

DE Chick/Hamilton/Harris/Moten
DT Wyche/Moore/Jenkins
DE Pierre/Kamalu/Thomas/Valentine

OLB AQM/Figs/Smith/Jackson
ILB Perryman/Grace/Young
ILB Kirby/Blue/Owens/McCray
OLB McCord/Armbrister/Hoilett

CB Gunter/Burns
SS Bush/Carter
FS Jenkins/Carter
CB Howard/Elder
NB Crawford/Bethel

I don't think Perryman is coming back.

On paper that looks solid, but we haven't shown any consistency yet.

I'm talking talent. It's clear to everyone except goldens that his defense sucks. Either he goes the Butch Davis/Schiano route or he will fail.

 

[Big Sky Cane]

Rok.....missed you on the boards this week. Taking a little sabbatical or what?

 

[Dan E. Dangerously]

We have the talent to be pretty good defensively.

DE Chick/Hamilton/Harris/Moten
DT Wyche/Moore/Jenkins
DE Pierre/Kamalu/Thomas/Valentine

OLB AQM/Figs/Smith/Jackson
ILB Perryman/Grace/Young
ILB Kirby/Blue/Owens/McCray
OLB McCord/Armbrister/Hoilett

CB Gunter/Burns
SS Bush/Carter
FS Jenkins/Carter
CB Howard/Elder
NB Crawford/Bethel

They are all Golden's players as well

 

[rok]

Was away on business all week and was quite the busy bee. I don't even know what to think anymore. On one hand, I like Golden and am rooting for the guy, but he and Dorito are just not good enough defensive football coaches. We need a professional or two to handle things on that side of the ball.

 

[rok]

We have the talent to be pretty good defensively.

DE Chick/Hamilton/Harris/Moten
DT Wyche/Moore/Jenkins
DE Pierre/Kamalu/Thomas/Valentine

OLB AQM/Figs/Smith/Jackson
ILB Perryman/Grace/Young
ILB Kirby/Blue/Owens/McCray
OLB McCord/Armbrister/Hoilett

CB Gunter/Burns
SS Bush/Carter
FS Jenkins/Carter
CB Howard/Elder
NB Crawford/Bethel

They are all Golden's players as well

If guys like Wyche, Chad Thomas, AQM, McCord, Kirby, Burns, Carter, Grace can be developed then we could see a significant improvement.

It really isn't fair that Highsmith, Shayon, Luther, Gaines, Rodgers, Cornelius, Renfrow are representing Canes football. Let's get some savages in here and see what Golden can do.

 

[QuadCityCane]

I just went to youtube and watched the Duke highlights cause I'm a *********. Gaines was there to make a play 3 out of 4 times on Connettes tds. The pass to the rb down the sideline into the endzone, TC was covering him. Gaines tackled 22 as he was about to make the tackle after 5 yards or so, then highsmith takes a bad angle and whiffs, the dude runs like 60 yards. Guy runs over 31 and i think 22 then carries guys down to the 2 on a 18 yard run.

Golden has to be playing these guys because they were loyal, stuck with the program and bought into his ideals. There really is no other logical explanation.

Next year will be all Golden's guys so the best better play.

 

[SmokeyRone]

I just went to youtube and watched the Duke highlights cause I'm a *********. Gaines was there to make a play 3 out of 4 times on Connettes tds. The pass to the rb down the sideline into the endzone, TC was covering him. Gaines tackled 22 as he was about to make the tackle after 5 yards or so, then highsmith takes a bad angle and whiffs, the dude runs like 60 yards. Guy runs over 31 and i think 22 then carries guys down to the 2 on a 18 yard run.

Golden has to be playing these guys because they were loyal, stuck with the program and bought into his ideals. There really is no other logical explanation.

Next year will be all Golden's guys so the best better play.

Then he should be fired the second we lose to Nebraska.

 

[Big Sky Cane]

I just went to youtube and watched the Duke highlights cause I'm a *********. Gaines was there to make a play 3 out of 4 times on Connettes tds. The pass to the rb down the sideline into the endzone, TC was covering him. Gaines tackled 22 as he was about to make the tackle after 5 yards or so, then highsmith takes a bad angle and whiffs, the dude runs like 60 yards. Guy runs over 31 and i think 22 then carries guys down to the 2 on a 18 yard run.

Golden has to be playing these guys because they were loyal, stuck with the program and bought into his ideals. There really is no other logical explanation.

Next year will be all Golden's guys so the best better play.

Then he should be fired the second we lose to Nebraska.

I'm gonna be at that game....you gonna make it Smokey?

 

[CanesAreAble]

I just went to youtube and watched the Duke highlights cause I'm a *********. Gaines was there to make a play 3 out of 4 times on Connettes tds. The pass to the rb down the sideline into the endzone, TC was covering him. Gaines tackled 22 as he was about to make the tackle after 5 yards or so, then highsmith takes a bad angle and whiffs, the dude runs like 60 yards. Guy runs over 31 and i think 22 then carries guys down to the 2 on a 18 yard run.

Golden has to be playing these guys because they were loyal, stuck with the program and bought into his ideals. There really is no other logical explanation.

Next year will be all Golden's guys so the best better play.

Our LBs were awful on WR screens in that game. There were several of those that should've been TFLs or stopped for minimal gains, but our LBs either missed the tackle, or they were too slow to pursue.

 

[QuadCityCane]

I just went to youtube and watched the Duke highlights cause I'm a *********. Gaines was there to make a play 3 out of 4 times on Connettes tds. The pass to the rb down the sideline into the endzone, TC was covering him. Gaines tackled 22 as he was about to make the tackle after 5 yards or so, then highsmith takes a bad angle and whiffs, the dude runs like 60 yards. Guy runs over 31 and i think 22 then carries guys down to the 2 on a 18 yard run.

Golden has to be playing these guys because they were loyal, stuck with the program and bought into his ideals. There really is no other logical explanation.

Next year will be all Golden's guys so the best better play.

Our LBs were awful on WR screens in that game. There were several of those that should've been TFLs or stopped for minimal gains, but our LBs either missed the tackle, or they were too slow to pursue.

The video was like 3:30 long. Every single play on the video had a missed tackle or several. Jenkins got juked out of his jockstrap on one of them that Rodgers tackled in the endzone. I think the weight gain really hurt Jimmy cause he wasnt all that fast to begin with and only has 1 TFL all year.

 

[LuCane]

I just went to youtube and watched the Duke highlights cause I'm a *********. Gaines was there to make a play 3 out of 4 times on Connettes tds. The pass to the rb down the sideline into the endzone, TC was covering him. Gaines tackled 22 as he was about to make the tackle after 5 yards or so, then highsmith takes a bad angle and whiffs, the dude runs like 60 yards. Guy runs over 31 and i think 22 then carries guys down to the 2 on a 18 yard run.

Golden has to be playing these guys because they were loyal, stuck with the program and bought into his ideals. There really is no other logical explanation.

Next year will be all Golden's guys so the best better play.

Our LBs were awful on WR screens in that game. There were several of those that should've been TFLs or stopped for minimal gains, but our LBs either missed the tackle, or they were too slow to pursue.

The video was like 3:30 long. Every single play on the video had a missed tackle or several. Jenkins got juked out of his jockstrap on one of them that Rodgers tackled in the endzone. I think the weight gain really hurt Jimmy cause he wasnt all that fast to begin with and only has 1 TFL all year.

The 3:30 long video I just watched doesn't match up with what you have stated. The play where 31 gets beat for the TD throw is aided by the fact our two interior linemen are playing patty cake with Duke OL and the QB is sitting comfortably. The first TD at the goal line in the video shows Gaines "being there" (as you state), but it's 2 Duke guys (QB + blocker) versus Gaines. The long run by the Duke RB where he cuts back on 30? He's already 15 yards downfield untouched when he makes the cutback. 59 got caught up in the wash inside because it was a well-designed play. The offense manipulated our defense and you can see guys clear as they chased motion.

Our players aren't great. Guys like 59 and 31 and 30 struggle. Obviously. But, to just chalk it up to poor individual talent is questionable. You know what most coordinators say about stopping a ball carrier? Do it in the backfield - before he gets started. You know where our guys are forced to tackle ball carriers? 3-4 yards downfield, at least. You can say "well, that's on our DL," but it also falls partly on their assignments.

Here's the 3:30 video I found. If you found something different, link, please. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpXXiwoNCC4

 

[QuadCityCane]

I just went to youtube and watched the Duke highlights cause I'm a *********. Gaines was there to make a play 3 out of 4 times on Connettes tds. The pass to the rb down the sideline into the endzone, TC was covering him. Gaines tackled 22 as he was about to make the tackle after 5 yards or so, then highsmith takes a bad angle and whiffs, the dude runs like 60 yards. Guy runs over 31 and i think 22 then carries guys down to the 2 on a 18 yard run.

Golden has to be playing these guys because they were loyal, stuck with the program and bought into his ideals. There really is no other logical explanation.

Next year will be all Golden's guys so the best better play.

Our LBs were awful on WR screens in that game. There were several of those that should've been TFLs or stopped for minimal gains, but our LBs either missed the tackle, or they were too slow to pursue.

The video was like 3:30 long. Every single play on the video had a missed tackle or several. Jenkins got juked out of his jockstrap on one of them that Rodgers tackled in the endzone. I think the weight gain really hurt Jimmy cause he wasnt all that fast to begin with and only has 1 TFL all year.

The 3:30 long video I just watched doesn't match up with what you have stated. The play where 31 gets beat for the TD throw is aided by the fact our two interior linemen are playing patty cake with Duke OL and the QB is sitting comfortably. The first TD at the goal line in the video shows Gaines "being there" (as you state), but it's 2 Duke guys (QB + blocker) versus Gaines. The long run by the Duke RB where he cuts back on 30? He's already 15 yards downfield untouched when he makes the cutback. 59 got caught up in the wash inside because it was a well-designed play. The offense manipulated our defense and you can see guys clear as they chased motion.

Our players aren't great. Guys like 59 and 31 and 30 struggle. Obviously. But, to just chalk it up to poor individual talent is questionable. You know what most coordinators say about stopping a ball carrier? Do it in the backfield - before he gets started. You know where our guys are forced to tackle ball carriers? 3-4 yards downfield, at least. You can say "well, that's on our DL," but it also falls partly on their assignments.

Here's the 3:30 video I found. If you found something different, link, please. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpXXiwoNCC4

I already went through this with you yesterday and yes this is the video I watched. What does a lineman have to due with TC covering the running back. I didnt say anything about getting pressure, would that help make a worse throw sure but he still almost fell down chasing him. And Gaines is blocked by a 190 lb running back twice and still doesnt even lay a hand on Connette, i dont mean tackle him, he doesnt even touch him. How bout Gaines tackling Rodgers instead of the running back, then him carrying 3 guys.

And I know you dont like to talk bad about players but they are getting a $200k free education. I am not personally attacking them by pointing out their shortcomings as football players.
Its talent and coaching I already said that in numerous threads. And since everyone thinks scheme is such a huge deal I will copy my post from another thread.
4-3 1 gap, 3-4 2 gap, 4-2-5, dont think its going to matter much. Any half way decent offensive coordinator will still find the weaknesses.
Fire all the coaches if you want I dont want to argue that anymore. I just want people to objectively look at this and tell me there still wouldnt be problems.

Randy's Defense
07-26.0 ppg
NFL-Gooden, K Phillips, Mccarthy, Campbell, Sharpton, (underused Dixon), Freshman Van Dyke, Bailey
08-24.2 ppg
NFL-Spence, Sharpton, Harris, Bailey, Dixon, Mccarthy(injured), Van Dyke, Forston
09-22.2 ppg
NFL-Sharpton, Mccarthy, Harris, Shields, Spence, Bailey, Van Dyke
10-20.7 ppg
NFL-Mccarthy, Spence, Bailey, Harris, Vernon, Forston, Van Dyke, Freshman Mcgee

Golden's Defense
11-20.1 ppg
NFL-Spence, Mcgee, Forston, Ray Ray, Vernon, Freshman Perryman, Chickillo
12-30.5 ppg
NFL-Mcgee, Perry, Chick, ?
13-25.5 ppg
NFL-Perry, Chick, ?

Golden's first year D with NFL players suspended 1-6 weeks was actually better PPG than any defense Shannon had over the previous 4 years.

Now maybe we would have beat Duke and VT with another scheme, but whos to say we beat Florida, Wake, NC, GT playing something else.