Are you prepared for the rebuild to take 5 years?

[Gatorhater]

I only have questions.

In year 5, with guys like Crawford, Burns, Bush and Jenkins at DB (presuming Tracy leaves, as is the consistent buzz), our LBs having grown up in Golden's system, and guys like Mccord, AQM as upperclassmen…

Will we have enough talent then?
Will we have a different philosophy - offensively and defensively - because we have "matured talent?"
Will we still play defense the same way?
Will our players, together, play beyond their individual talent levels or below?
Will you adjust based on difficulty of schedule for any given year?
Will we be able to beat the "more talented" opponent?

What indicators, negative or positive, do you currently have for any of the answers to the questions above?

This isn't directed at you, Able. Those aren't rhetorical questions, either. Would sincerely like to see what people answer to those questions.

Good set of interrogatories. After the last two weeks, I am back to: "Have we stopped getting worse?"

 

[JHallCanes]

Michigan State now = Miami

Jesus some of you have ******* lost it.

If I see Nick Saban's coaching record posted one more time I am going to throw the **** up.

 

[DutchieFlair]

Comparing Michigan State to Miami is comparing Rosie O'Donnel to Kerry Washington smh come on people.

 

[sebastian91]

It's relevant if people are going to use what Saban did at Bama to argue that Golden should have us further along than we are.

 

[LuCane]

We aren't playing well on defense. That isn't at issue. The comparisons are irrelevant and unnecessary. You put in all that work to do those comparisons to conclude that the defense sucks. It was a waste of time. Teams with no talent can play well, and teams with more talent can play like *****. That may very well be due to coaching, or it could be the result of infinite other explanations. Miami is 7-3. Unless they score on every possession and the defense pitches a shut out in every game, then there's room for improvement. The coaches need to improve. The players need to improve. If neither happens, heads will roll at some point in time when those with that kind of authority decide that it's time. I have a degree from Miami and support all of the athletic teams, win or lose. If those in power want to make a change, I'll support whomever they bring in. If they stay the course, I'll support that, too, and hope for their success.

Why even bother engaging in any discussion? I didn't put it in "all that work." I simply went down the list of looking at what we had done against teams and what teams had done against each other. It addressed your previous stance that "nothing could be gained from looking at comparisons, which made it dumb." It also addresses your flawed point that "teams with no talent can play well and teams with more talent can play like ****." There is a pattern of teams doing their best against us. That means at least something.

The only waste of time here is you trying to "stay above the fray" while simultaneously jumping into countless threads with a small jab or a little comment, then retreating to the general "the coaches and players both need to improve, obviously" stance. I wouldn't care that you're going around contradicting yourself, but part of what you say discourages discussion that you don't approve of or "like." That's unacceptable, though funny.

 

[sebastian91]

We aren't playing well on defense. That isn't at issue. The comparisons are irrelevant and unnecessary. You put in all that work to do those comparisons to conclude that the defense sucks. It was a waste of time. Teams with no talent can play well, and teams with more talent can play like *****. That may very well be due to coaching, or it could be the result of infinite other explanations. Miami is 7-3. Unless they score on every possession and the defense pitches a shut out in every game, then there's room for improvement. The coaches need to improve. The players need to improve. If neither happens, heads will roll at some point in time when those with that kind of authority decide that it's time. I have a degree from Miami and support all of the athletic teams, win or lose. If those in power want to make a change, I'll support whomever they bring in. If they stay the course, I'll support that, too, and hope for their success.

Why even bother engaging in any discussion? I didn't put it in "all that work." I simply went down the list of looking at what we had done against teams and what teams had done against each other. It addressed your previous stance that "nothing could be gained from looking at comparisons, which made it dumb." It also addresses your flawed point that "teams with no talent can play well and teams with more talent can play like ****." There is a pattern of teams doing their best against us. That means at least something.

The only waste of time here is you trying to "stay above the fray" while simultaneously jumping into countless threads with a small jab or a little comment, then retreating to the general "the coaches and players both need to improve, obviously" stance. I wouldn't care that you're going around contradicting yourself, but part of what you say discourages discussion that you don't approve of or "like." That's unacceptable, though funny.

There is a pattern of teams doing their best against us ---- OK, but what does that mean? It means our defense sucks. We already know that.

I'm not contradicting myself at all. I know the defense sucks, and so do you. So does anyone else with a pulse.

You're vastly over-analyzing every word of every post, and, for the record, the level of discussion on scheme, in particular, has been much improved in the last day or two. Maybe the emotions are now tempered with some time, or maybe the mods are finally doing their job (not likely), but it's better. If you don't like my posts, ignore them. I don't care. I enjoy a lot of your posts, and I don't enjoy a few of your posts. Such is life, eh?

 

[LuCane]

We aren't playing well on defense. That isn't at issue. The comparisons are irrelevant and unnecessary. You put in all that work to do those comparisons to conclude that the defense sucks. It was a waste of time. Teams with no talent can play well, and teams with more talent can play like *****. That may very well be due to coaching, or it could be the result of infinite other explanations. Miami is 7-3. Unless they score on every possession and the defense pitches a shut out in every game, then there's room for improvement. The coaches need to improve. The players need to improve. If neither happens, heads will roll at some point in time when those with that kind of authority decide that it's time. I have a degree from Miami and support all of the athletic teams, win or lose. If those in power want to make a change, I'll support whomever they bring in. If they stay the course, I'll support that, too, and hope for their success.

Why even bother engaging in any discussion? I didn't put it in "all that work." I simply went down the list of looking at what we had done against teams and what teams had done against each other. It addressed your previous stance that "nothing could be gained from looking at comparisons, which made it dumb." It also addresses your flawed point that "teams with no talent can play well and teams with more talent can play like ****." There is a pattern of teams doing their best against us. That means at least something.

The only waste of time here is you trying to "stay above the fray" while simultaneously jumping into countless threads with a small jab or a little comment, then retreating to the general "the coaches and players both need to improve, obviously" stance. I wouldn't care that you're going around contradicting yourself, but part of what you say discourages discussion that you don't approve of or "like." That's unacceptable, though funny.

There is a pattern of teams doing their best against us ---- OK, but what does that mean? It means our defense sucks. We already know that.

I'm not contradicting myself at all. I know the defense sucks, and so do you. So does anyone else with a pulse.

You're vastly over-analyzing every word of every post, and, for the record, the level of discussion on scheme, in particular, has been much improved in the last day or two. Maybe the emotions are now tempered with some time, or maybe the mods are finally doing their job (not likely), but it's better. If you don't like my posts, ignore them. I don't care. I enjoy a lot of your posts, and I don't enjoy a few of your posts. Such is life, eh?

I don't care what you post and have never addressed you one way or the other until I saw some of your posts have an underlying "no point in discussing this" theme. If you notice, that's what I address. You're not being singled out. I've addressed it with basically everyone (who I notice) and Franchise and I have butted heads on this very topic.

You said it was irrelevant to discuss comparisons because we know the defense sucks. Under that logic, it's pointless to discuss A LOT of things on this board because we already know the answer and further granularity on the subject is "a waste of time." The net for this website is less discussion. I'm going to address that. If you can't understand why I have to do that, I'm not sure what to say. My role here is to push discussion. I try to make it good discussion. Sometimes I succeed, sometimes I fail. Such is the life of someone who wants the board to meet its objective(s).

 

[sebastian91]

We aren't playing well on defense. That isn't at issue. The comparisons are irrelevant and unnecessary. You put in all that work to do those comparisons to conclude that the defense sucks. It was a waste of time. Teams with no talent can play well, and teams with more talent can play like *****. That may very well be due to coaching, or it could be the result of infinite other explanations. Miami is 7-3. Unless they score on every possession and the defense pitches a shut out in every game, then there's room for improvement. The coaches need to improve. The players need to improve. If neither happens, heads will roll at some point in time when those with that kind of authority decide that it's time. I have a degree from Miami and support all of the athletic teams, win or lose. If those in power want to make a change, I'll support whomever they bring in. If they stay the course, I'll support that, too, and hope for their success.

Why even bother engaging in any discussion? I didn't put it in "all that work." I simply went down the list of looking at what we had done against teams and what teams had done against each other. It addressed your previous stance that "nothing could be gained from looking at comparisons, which made it dumb." It also addresses your flawed point that "teams with no talent can play well and teams with more talent can play like ****." There is a pattern of teams doing their best against us. That means at least something.

The only waste of time here is you trying to "stay above the fray" while simultaneously jumping into countless threads with a small jab or a little comment, then retreating to the general "the coaches and players both need to improve, obviously" stance. I wouldn't care that you're going around contradicting yourself, but part of what you say discourages discussion that you don't approve of or "like." That's unacceptable, though funny.

There is a pattern of teams doing their best against us ---- OK, but what does that mean? It means our defense sucks. We already know that.

I'm not contradicting myself at all. I know the defense sucks, and so do you. So does anyone else with a pulse.

You're vastly over-analyzing every word of every post, and, for the record, the level of discussion on scheme, in particular, has been much improved in the last day or two. Maybe the emotions are now tempered with some time, or maybe the mods are finally doing their job (not likely), but it's better. If you don't like my posts, ignore them. I don't care. I enjoy a lot of your posts, and I don't enjoy a few of your posts. Such is life, eh?

I don't care what you post and have never addressed you one way or the other until I saw some of your posts have an underlying "no point in discussing this" theme. If you notice, that's what I address. You're not being singled out. I've addressed it with basically everyone (who I notice) and Franchise and I have butted heads on this very topic.

You said it was irrelevant to discuss comparisons because we know the defense sucks. Under that logic, it's pointless to discuss A LOT of things on this board because we already know the answer and further granularity on the subject is "a waste of time." The net for this website is less discussion. I'm going to address that. If you can't understand why I have to do that, I'm not sure what to say. My role here is to push discussion. I try to make it good discussion. Sometimes I succeed, sometimes I fail. Such is the life of someone who wants the board to meet its objective(s).

When I imply that there's no point in discussing something, it's because people are making comments like "Miami will never win with Golden", or "Coach D will never field a good defense", or some other purely speculative statement. Then they top it off by saying "Period!", as if there's no chance that their crystal ball could be wrong. D$ has a tacked post at the top that claims to want to keep post-game venting and ripping of players and coaches off the board, keeping it from being like the Scout free board. If you're really worried about pushing legit discussion, you'll revisit that original strategy instead of worrying about me. Some people don't care what I say, and there are a lot of people who I don't care what they say.

 

[JHallCanes]

It's relevant if people are going to use what Saban did at Bama to argue that Golden should have us further along than we are.

No. It's irrelevant. If you have to sit here and look at Golden's tenure and use Nick Saban to make yourself feel better, well then you are in some serious denial.

Hint: Saban's record was brought up when Randy was here too

 

[LuCane]

We aren't playing well on defense. That isn't at issue. The comparisons are irrelevant and unnecessary. You put in all that work to do those comparisons to conclude that the defense sucks. It was a waste of time. Teams with no talent can play well, and teams with more talent can play like *****. That may very well be due to coaching, or it could be the result of infinite other explanations. Miami is 7-3. Unless they score on every possession and the defense pitches a shut out in every game, then there's room for improvement. The coaches need to improve. The players need to improve. If neither happens, heads will roll at some point in time when those with that kind of authority decide that it's time. I have a degree from Miami and support all of the athletic teams, win or lose. If those in power want to make a change, I'll support whomever they bring in. If they stay the course, I'll support that, too, and hope for their success.

Why even bother engaging in any discussion? I didn't put it in "all that work." I simply went down the list of looking at what we had done against teams and what teams had done against each other. It addressed your previous stance that "nothing could be gained from looking at comparisons, which made it dumb." It also addresses your flawed point that "teams with no talent can play well and teams with more talent can play like ****." There is a pattern of teams doing their best against us. That means at least something.

The only waste of time here is you trying to "stay above the fray" while simultaneously jumping into countless threads with a small jab or a little comment, then retreating to the general "the coaches and players both need to improve, obviously" stance. I wouldn't care that you're going around contradicting yourself, but part of what you say discourages discussion that you don't approve of or "like." That's unacceptable, though funny.

There is a pattern of teams doing their best against us ---- OK, but what does that mean? It means our defense sucks. We already know that.

I'm not contradicting myself at all. I know the defense sucks, and so do you. So does anyone else with a pulse.

You're vastly over-analyzing every word of every post, and, for the record, the level of discussion on scheme, in particular, has been much improved in the last day or two. Maybe the emotions are now tempered with some time, or maybe the mods are finally doing their job (not likely), but it's better. If you don't like my posts, ignore them. I don't care. I enjoy a lot of your posts, and I don't enjoy a few of your posts. Such is life, eh?

I don't care what you post and have never addressed you one way or the other until I saw some of your posts have an underlying "no point in discussing this" theme. If you notice, that's what I address. You're not being singled out. I've addressed it with basically everyone (who I notice) and Franchise and I have butted heads on this very topic.

You said it was irrelevant to discuss comparisons because we know the defense sucks. Under that logic, it's pointless to discuss A LOT of things on this board because we already know the answer and further granularity on the subject is "a waste of time." The net for this website is less discussion. I'm going to address that. If you can't understand why I have to do that, I'm not sure what to say. My role here is to push discussion. I try to make it good discussion. Sometimes I succeed, sometimes I fail. Such is the life of someone who wants the board to meet its objective(s).

When I imply that there's no point in discussing something, it's because people are making comments like "Miami will never win with Golden", or "Coach D will never field a good defense", or some other purely speculative statement. Then they top it off by saying "Period!", as if there's no chance that their crystal ball could be wrong. D$ has a tacked post at the top that claims to want to keep post-game venting and ripping of players and coaches off the board, keeping it from being like the Scout free board. If you're really worried about pushing legit discussion, you'll revisit that original strategy instead of worrying about me. Some people don't care what I say, and there are a lot of people who I don't care what they say.

It seems to me that you're missing my point. It's difficult, if not impossible, to get everyone to push "legit" discussion. What is more practical is to address people who discourage discussion. This is a free board. It's going to be impossible to keep things perfectly clean. My goal and role is to try to push as much substantive discussion as I can. Maybe it won't overwhelm the trash, but the hope is to balance it. When someone, anyone, seemingly makes comments to slow that process down (and I notice), I'll address it. It's not about you, as I've said. I'm not worried about you. Some of your comments fell into what I've described.

In any case, respond if you wish, but let's move this back and forth to PM. It's good for everyone to read these general points because it clarifies our mission. But, anything specific to you can be discussed on PM.

 

[sebastian91]

It's relevant if people are going to use what Saban did at Bama to argue that Golden should have us further along than we are.

No. It's irrelevant. If you have to sit here and look at Golden's tenure and use Nick Saban to make yourself feel better, well then you are in some serious denial.

Hint: Saban's record was brought up when Randy was here too

Oh, I agree that it's irrelevant. I'm just saying that a lot of people have brought up what Saban did at Bama as an example of what we should expect Golden to be doing now. If they do that, then it becomes relevant to bring up his record at MSU. That's all. Trust me, I agree with you.

 

[sebastian91]

When I imply that there's no point in discussing something, it's because people are making comments like "Miami will never win with Golden", or "Coach D will never field a good defense", or some other purely speculative statement. Then they top it off by saying "Period!", as if there's no chance that their crystal ball could be wrong. D$ has a tacked post at the top that claims to want to keep post-game venting and ripping of players and coaches off the board, keeping it from being like the Scout free board. If you're really worried about pushing legit discussion, you'll revisit that original strategy instead of worrying about me. Some people don't care what I say, and there are a lot of people who I don't care what they say.

It seems to me that you're missing my point. It's difficult, if not impossible, to get everyone to push "legit" discussion. What is more practical is to address people who discourage discussion. This is a free board. It's going to be impossible to keep things perfectly clean. My goal and role is to try to push as much substantive discussion as I can. Maybe it won't overwhelm the trash, but the hope is to balance it. When someone, anyone, seemingly makes comments to slow that process down (and I notice), I'll address it. It's not about you, as I've said. I'm not worried about you. Some of your comments fell into what I've described.

In any case, respond if you wish, but let's move this back and forth to PM. It's good for everyone to read these general points because it clarifies our mission. But, anything specific to you can be discussed on PM.[/QUOTE]

My intent isn't to slow down the process of legit discussion, whether you believe that or not. PM if you wish, but I see little point in that. The important point, to me, is that the reactionary vitriol directed at coaches and players does far more to discourage legit discussion because those who do want legit discussion just end up getting attacked and called names by the trolls. So they just don't bother, and you end up with a thread full of bytching and moaning and fire all the coaches. That's not good discussion.

 

[LuCane]

My intent isn't to slow down the process of legit discussion, whether you believe that or not. PM if you wish, but I see little point in that. The important point, to me, is that the reactionary vitriol directed at coaches and players does far more to discourage legit discussion because those who do want legit discussion just end up getting attacked and called names by the trolls. So they just don't bother, and you end up with a thread full of bytching and moaning and fire all the coaches. That's not good discussion.

It was an offer - not a desire to PM you. I understand re: that "reactionary vitriol." It's just easier for me to avoid. I go find what I consider a better discussion. Then I see someone saying "what the **** do you know about Xs and Os," "we should just wait and see," or "this is pointless because the coaches know better." That's poison to good discussion.

 

[AlexCane]

Perhaps an elite coach like Saban would've had this thing rolling in year 2 or 3, but this is the hand we were dealt. It took Butch 6 years. I'm not comparing Golden or his situation to Butch (although there are some parallels). I'm just saying that regardless of the confluence of circumstances, it took 6 years.

I don't think we're contenders next year (unless Olsen wins the job and balls out like Johnny Football or something), but I think we'll be at that level in 2015 and definitely 2016 if Golden continues to recruit well.

I think the offense is going to thrive. There's just too much talent coming in, including probably the best O-line haul in the country. The wealth of playmakers on offense alone will keep the program from bottoming out.

Whether or not you find that acceptable, are you emotionally prepared for it? Because that's what's staring us in the face.

Haven't read through whole thread, so apologize if this has been mentioned ...

It's taken FSU/Jimbo 4 years (or 6 years if you include his tenure as OC/co-head coach) to get FSU to elite status. Probation aside, the state of FSU's roster that Jimbo inherited in 2010 was pretty similar to what Golden inherited from Shannon. I don't believe it's unreasonable to suggest that where roster is barren, it will likely take 3 to 4 years for a complete rebuild - that's when your upperclassmen are "your" guys.

 

[Big Sky Cane]

My intent isn't to slow down the process of legit discussion, whether you believe that or not. PM if you wish, but I see little point in that. The important point, to me, is that the reactionary vitriol directed at coaches and players does far more to discourage legit discussion because those who do want legit discussion just end up getting attacked and called names by the trolls. So they just don't bother, and you end up with a thread full of bytching and moaning and fire all the coaches. That's not good discussion.

This is 100% true. I haven't posted much the last two weeks.......because in reality, it is futile. Most have their minds made up on Golden and have already written him off.

I haven't made a single post claiming "it's talent, not coaching", however, since I don't have the pitchforks out ready to fire everybody......I'm somehow relegated to a Golden & Coach D slurper. It's ridiculous really. I'm basically giving the doom & gloom crowd their day in the sun, because it does look pretty bad right now.

+REP

 

[zone3cane]

No, what stares us in the face is a fraud of a coach who can recruit and smooth talk but can't actually win football games.

We will never compete for a NC with Golden.

That's pure speculation. You may be right, you may be wrong. Only time will tell.

I said when Randy was fired, and the depths of his roster mismanagement became clear, that we were probably looking at another Butch-type rebuild. We weren't on probation, but we may as well have been. I'm not sure any NCAA punishment could've been much worse than what Randy did to the roster. His last two classes, plus the one AG had to throw together in a few weeks after he was hired...that's what we're seeing the results of right now (and last year). Throw in the NCAA mess after AG was hired, and it removed all doubt for me that this would be at least a Butch-type rebuild. So, yes, I am prepared for it, because that's what I expected all along.

Edit: I'll also add that the premature departures of a lot of the depth on defense (Paul, Finnie, GT) has really hurt. To me, the most valid criticism of AG is the failures at recruiting DTs, which is why we see the JUCOs and Renfrows being brought in. I also believe that he misjudged how good the offense would be this year. I don't believe we would've seen as many of the schematic changes on defense this year if he'd known that Morris and the offense would turn the ball over and struggle to sustain drives.

Spot on post!!!

"uh spot on post" man kill yoself.....

All sebastian's delusional *** keeps talking about is Randy Shannon... gtfoh w/ that bs, Golden has been here for 3 years and hasnt developed ****. Randy left Golden w/ more talent then what Golden had at Temple and w/ more talent then any coach has ever had at Duke university, so now it's all about Randy Shannon. Yeah right, EXCUSES.

Oh and lol @ this bum blaming Morris for the defense this year.... what r u talking about??? You think Golden "misjudged" how good the offense would be this year.... are you slow? do you not want to accept reality which is the offense has been beat up by injuries and handicapped by Goldens garbage *** defense. What "schematic changes have you seen in this defense this year b/c it's the same garbage **** we saw last year. W/o Duke Johnson last year, Miami would've lost to Duke and this wouldve been the 2nd loss to them in a row.

and News Flash, the premature depatures bs is on Golden.... he recruited these guys, and they keep leaving. Storm Johnson isnt here b/c of Al Golden. Jontavious Carter, Eddie Johnson, Jalen Grimble, Gionni Paul, Thomas Finnie, Gabe Terry all left or were kicked off the team b/c of off field issues. That's on Golden, i dont remember Shannon or Coker or Butch having so many of ur own recruits leave ur program for whatever reason.

Sebastian it's obvious that all you do is think of excuses and you dont know what ur talking about just let it go.

 

[Big Sky Cane]

No, what stares us in the face is a fraud of a coach who can recruit and smooth talk but can't actually win football games.

We will never compete for a NC with Golden.

That's pure speculation. You may be right, you may be wrong. Only time will tell.

I said when Randy was fired, and the depths of his roster mismanagement became clear, that we were probably looking at another Butch-type rebuild. We weren't on probation, but we may as well have been. I'm not sure any NCAA punishment could've been much worse than what Randy did to the roster. His last two classes, plus the one AG had to throw together in a few weeks after he was hired...that's what we're seeing the results of right now (and last year). Throw in the NCAA mess after AG was hired, and it removed all doubt for me that this would be at least a Butch-type rebuild. So, yes, I am prepared for it, because that's what I expected all along.

Edit: I'll also add that the premature departures of a lot of the depth on defense (Paul, Finnie, GT) has really hurt. To me, the most valid criticism of AG is the failures at recruiting DTs, which is why we see the JUCOs and Renfrows being brought in. I also believe that he misjudged how good the offense would be this year. I don't believe we would've seen as many of the schematic changes on defense this year if he'd known that Morris and the offense would turn the ball over and struggle to sustain drives.

Spot on post!!!

"uh spot on post" man kill yoself.....

All sebastian's delusional *** keeps talking about is Randy Shannon... gtfoh w/ that bs, Golden has been here for 3 years and hasnt developed ****. Randy left Golden w/ more talent then what Golden had at Temple and w/ more talent then any coach has ever had at Duke university, so now it's all about Randy Shannon. Yeah right, EXCUSES.

Oh and lol @ this bum blaming Morris for the defense this year.... what r u talking about??? You think Golden "misjudged" how good the offense would be this year.... are you slow? do you not want to accept reality which is the offense has been beat up by injuries and handicapped by Goldens garbage *** defense. What "schematic changes have you seen in this defense this year b/c it's the same garbage **** we saw last year. W/o Duke Johnson last year, Miami would've lost to Duke and this wouldve been the 2nd loss to them in a row.

and News Flash, the premature depatures bs is on Golden.... he recruited these guys, and they keep leaving. Storm Johnson isnt here b/c of Al Golden. Jontavious Carter, Eddie Johnson, Jalen Grimble, Gionni Paul, Thomas Finnie, Gabe Terry all left or were kicked off the team b/c of off field issues. That's on Golden, i dont remember Shannon or Coker or Butch having so many of ur own recruits leave ur program for whatever reason.

Sebastian it's obvious that all you do is think of excuses and you dont know what ur talking about just it go.

Right on point. Way to advance the discussion Zone!

 

[sebastian91]

"uh spot on post" man kill yoself.....

All sebastian's delusional *** keeps talking about is Randy Shannon... gtfoh w/ that bs, Golden has been here for 3 years and hasnt developed ****. Randy left Golden w/ more talent then what Golden had at Temple and w/ more talent then any coach has ever had at Duke university, so now it's all about Randy Shannon. Yeah right, EXCUSES.

Oh and lol @ this bum blaming Morris for the defense this year.... what r u talking about??? You think Golden "misjudged" how good the offense would be this year.... are you slow? do you not want to accept reality which is the offense has been beat up by injuries and handicapped by Goldens garbage *** defense. What "schematic changes have you seen in this defense this year b/c it's the same garbage **** we saw last year. W/o Duke Johnson last year, Miami would've lost to Duke and this wouldve been the 2nd loss to them in a row.

and News Flash, the premature depatures bs is on Golden.... he recruited these guys, and they keep leaving. Storm Johnson isnt here b/c of Al Golden. Jontavious Carter, Eddie Johnson, Jalen Grimble, Gionni Paul, Thomas Finnie, Gabe Terry all left or were kicked off the team b/c of off field issues. That's on Golden, i dont remember Shannon or Coker or Butch having so many of ur own recruits leave ur program for whatever reason.

Sebastian it's obvious that all you do is think of excuses and you dont know what ur talking about just it go.

Exhibit A, Lu. This post doesn't discourage legit discussion?

Sadly, I can't think of any excuses for you, Zone.

 

[LuCane]

"uh spot on post" man kill yoself.....

All sebastian's delusional *** keeps talking about is Randy Shannon... gtfoh w/ that bs, Golden has been here for 3 years and hasnt developed ****. Randy left Golden w/ more talent then what Golden had at Temple and w/ more talent then any coach has ever had at Duke university, so now it's all about Randy Shannon. Yeah right, EXCUSES.

Oh and lol @ this bum blaming Morris for the defense this year.... what r u talking about??? You think Golden "misjudged" how good the offense would be this year.... are you slow? do you not want to accept reality which is the offense has been beat up by injuries and handicapped by Goldens garbage *** defense. What "schematic changes have you seen in this defense this year b/c it's the same garbage **** we saw last year. W/o Duke Johnson last year, Miami would've lost to Duke and this wouldve been the 2nd loss to them in a row.

and News Flash, the premature depatures bs is on Golden.... he recruited these guys, and they keep leaving. Storm Johnson isnt here b/c of Al Golden. Jontavious Carter, Eddie Johnson, Jalen Grimble, Gionni Paul, Thomas Finnie, Gabe Terry all left or were kicked off the team b/c of off field issues. That's on Golden, i dont remember Shannon or Coker or Butch having so many of ur own recruits leave ur program for whatever reason.

Sebastian it's obvious that all you do is think of excuses and you dont know what ur talking about just it go.

Exhibit A, Lu. This post doesn't discourage legit discussion?

Sadly, I can't think of any excuses for you, Zone.

Like I said, easier to ignore posts you find to be rubbish than it is to ignore people telling others to wait and see or not to talk about Xs and Os b/c they're not qualified.

 

[zone3cane]

LOL @ discourage legit discussion.... gtfoh w/ that soft shouldered bs

crying b/c he's getting jumped on, stand up on yo own and explain yo position....

it's not legit it's the same bs that you and every other Golden slurper, like Big Sky were saying when your POVs were running rampant on this site like a plague.

All you do is point fingers at everybody else it's pathetic.