UM AD Blake "I evaluate our Head Coach" Al Golden not his DC

[UMFarArcher]

I am so sick and tired of this amateur hour hiring by the supposed 'bright' people in the Administrations.

For God's sake, when we get rid of this current amateur, get a proven program builder, a proven 305 recruiter, a proven talent evaluator, and a proven Head Coach with the nuances characteristic of the 305.

Get Butch!

And quit sihtting the bed on these hires!

I love Butch.. but you don't have the patience to see through a rebuilding job done by Butch.
He had a losing season, Had embarrassing losses to SU 66-13 and ECU. Was 0-10 vs FSU and VT at one point. Many of the losses were blowouts. And he had really no track record to speak of to point that indicated that he was the man for the job to get the program back. None.
Finally after 5 years he had his break out year his 6th.
So you impatient mopers out of all people should cease the "we want Butch" cry.

Like ****.

Butch took a broke-assed program with horrific sanctions, and built a National Championship team. Only Schnellenberger has accomplished that at the U.

No better talent evaluator, no better recruiter, no better program builder.

 

[TedHendricksOffspring]

zzzzzzzzzz.....2 more years so SUCK on that mofos. Such is life at the U.

I remember arguing with a guy named "jaxcane" or something when he made these snide arrogant digs at fans who wanted Retardo gone. He was so certain Randy had a free pass b/c "donna loves him". And in the end, he was wrong, and the affirmative action hero got ****canned.

The same thing will happen to Al if the team goes 7-6, b/c at the end of the day, the program becomes such a cesspool of negativity that the only choice is to fire the coach.

Everybody agrees 7-6 would be awful. But I still don't understand why so many people are PREDICTING 6-7 wins. We won 9 last year and the roster got better. I expect 10 wins.

I think mostly everybody is of the mindset that a lot of experience is being lost and to expect true freshmen to come in replace redshirt seniors immediately is a tall order. We did win 9 games last year and the talent did get better, but the schedule got significantly harder. Unproven guys like Williams at the most important position and the fact that guys are returning from injury leave a lot of question marks. Couple that with a defensive line that will likely remain just as poor in a scheme that does not play to their strengths, that will keep the defense in an awful state. Lastly, a bad loss to Louisville (very possible.) and later a bad loss to Nebraska (also very possible.) to start the season at 2-2 could get the team to quit, as we've seen before. What 10 games do you see us winning?

Not expecting freshmen to replace redshirt seniors. For every Jimmy Gaines that's leaving, we have a Jermaine Grace or Raphael Kirby waiting who is more talented and has been learning the system.

But if we're expecting these young players to have developed to the point we are all hoping that they have, how come Highsmith, Rodgers II, and Gaines were on the field as untalented and unproductive as they were when better options such as Carter, Grace, Kirby, and Fentress that weren't getting playing time? At worst, they would have been on par production wise.

 

[terra99pin]

I remember arguing with a guy named "jaxcane" or something when he made these snide arrogant digs at fans who wanted Retardo gone. He was so certain Randy had a free pass b/c "donna loves him". And in the end, he was wrong, and the affirmative action hero got ****canned.

The same thing will happen to Al if the team goes 7-6, b/c at the end of the day, the program becomes such a cesspool of negativity that the only choice is to fire the coach.

Everybody agrees 7-6 would be awful. But I still don't understand why so many people are PREDICTING 6-7 wins. We won 9 last year and the roster got better. I expect 10 wins.

I think mostly everybody is of the mindset that a lot of experience is being lost and to expect true freshmen to come in replace redshirt seniors immediately is a tall order. We did win 9 games last year and the talent did get better, but the schedule got significantly harder. Unproven guys like Williams at the most important position and the fact that guys are returning from injury leave a lot of question marks. Couple that with a defensive line that will likely remain just as poor in a scheme that does not play to their strengths, that will keep the defense in an awful state. Lastly, a bad loss to Louisville (very possible.) and later a bad loss to Nebraska (also very possible.) to start the season at 2-2 could get the team to quit, as we've seen before. What 10 games do you see us winning?

Not expecting freshmen to replace redshirt seniors. For every Jimmy Gaines that's leaving, we have a Jermaine Grace or Raphael Kirby waiting who is more talented and has been learning the system.

But if we're expecting these young players to have developed to the point we are all hoping that they have, how come Highsmith, Rodgers II, and Gaines were on the field as untalented and unproductive as they were when better options such as Carter, Grace, Kirby, and Fentress that weren't getting playing time? At worst, they would have been on par production wise.

You still have to know the system. Like it or not, but D'Onofrio runs a conservative D. The last thing he'll do is let a freshman on the field if he thinks there will be an assignment bust. In the case of Rodgers and Highsmith, we run a quarters coverage much of the time. That is very complicated, and you can't expect every true freshman to pick it up quickly. Plus, there is a limit to how many true freshmen you can have on the field at once. AQM, Burns and Figs all played alot.

I'm saying that between Grace and Kirby at LB (and possibly one of Young and Owens if they learn enough this spring), Corn Elder and Jamal Carter in the secondary, and Jelani, McCord, AQM, Kamalu and the JUCO boys on the DL, we should easily be able to replace the minutes the seniors gave us with athletically gifted players who have experience in the system and/or the college level. Not saying they all make the leap (some will, some won't), but chances are enough will so that the D will be upgraded.

If we get production from the true freshmen like we got from AQM, Burns and Figatron, that's a bonus.

 

[poncho0091]

I'm sorry but we never loss as bad when we had randy. Maybe 2 or 3 bad losses. Randy also played a tougher schedule and beat good teams and was competitive in most games. Defense was consistently a top 15-20 defense...... He also had multiple players go to the nfl on d EVERY YEAR. With golden we have had more than 7 bad losses.... Duke 13, va tech 13,fsu 13, louisville 13, Ksu 12,Nd 12,fsu 12, Maryland 11, and many more but I don't have time to name them. Golden better quit playing mind games, this sh^t ain't working. I'm tired of this fu^king 2 gap defense, it doesn't work at all. Quit doing it.

In all fairness, the roster left behind by Randy was an absolute sht show. While he was competing and had a couple more decent wins, he was setting HIMSELF up for future failures by the recruiting job he was doing.

In all fairness, the roster that Randy took over was also a **** show. It was no better than what Randy left Golden and in all reality might have been worse.

 

[poncho0091]

I am so sick and tired of this amateur hour hiring by the supposed 'bright' people in the Administrations.

For God's sake, when we get rid of this current amateur, get a proven program builder, a proven 305 recruiter, a proven talent evaluator, and a proven Head Coach with the nuances characteristic of the 305.

Get Butch!

And quit sihtting the bed on these hires!

I love Butch.. but you don't have the patience to see through a rebuilding job done by Butch.
He had a losing season, Had embarrassing losses to SU 66-13 and ECU. Was 0-10 vs FSU and VT at one point. Many of the losses were blowouts. And he had really no track record to speak of to point that indicated that he was the man for the job to get the program back. None.
Finally after 5 years he had his break out year his 6th.
So you impatient mopers out of all people should cease the "we want Butch" cry.

Like ****.

Butch took a broke-assed program with horrific sanctions, and built a National Championship team. Only Schnellenberger has accomplished that at the U.

No better talent evaluator, no better recruiter, no better program builder.

It always makes me laugh when people use the cloud to defend Golden, but forget that Butch had a **** situation too, that I think personally was worse. Butch lost a lot of scholarships to work with. Golden did not lose that many scholarships, not enough to cause major depth issues at least. As far as the time period, yes the cloud lasted a couple years, but Butch was coaching with reduced scholarships for a couple years. The one thing that was harder for Golden was the recruiting quality guys during the cloud because of all the negative recruiting, but even then, its still better than knowing you can barely field a full team with the scholarship reductions Butch had.

Butch had 95-96, Miami self imposed scholarships from 25 to 18, 96-97 NCAA imposed loss of 13 scholarships, and another 11 in 98-99. Al did not lose 31 total scholarships to fill a team with. You think top recruits wanted to come to Miami knowing we were losing those scholarships?

People need to stop acting like Al had it so much worse. The cloud most definitely sucked, but Butch had it just as bad if not worse. At least Al had scholarships to work with and filled nearly every class.

 

[DC Dog Nuts]

zzzzzzzzzz.....2 more years so SUCK on that mofos. Such is life at the U.

I remember arguing with a guy named "jaxcane" or something when he made these snide arrogant digs at fans who wanted Retardo gone. He was so certain Randy had a free pass b/c "donna loves him". And in the end, he was wrong, and the affirmative action hero got ****canned.

The same thing will happen to Al if the team goes 7-6, b/c at the end of the day, the program becomes such a cesspool of negativity that the only choice is to fire the coach.

Everybody agrees 7-6 would be awful. But I still don't understand why so many people are PREDICTING 6-7 wins. We won 9 last year and the roster got better. I expect 10 wins.

I think mostly everybody is of the mindset that a lot of experience is being lost and to expect true freshmen to come in replace redshirt seniors immediately is a tall order. We did win 9 games last year and the talent did get better, but the schedule got significantly harder. Unproven guys like Williams at the most important position and the fact that guys are returning from injury leave a lot of question marks. Couple that with a defensive line that will likely remain just as poor in a scheme that does not play to their strengths, that will keep the defense in an awful state. Lastly, a bad loss to Louisville (very possible.) and later a bad loss to Nebraska (also very possible.) to start the season at 2-2 could get the team to quit, as we've seen before. What 10 games do you see us winning?

Not expecting freshmen to replace redshirt seniors. For every Jimmy Gaines that's leaving, we have a Jermaine Grace or Raphael Kirby waiting who is more talented and has been learning the system.

What system? You mean the one that has produced horrible results? That "system". You really want to prop up the idea that the young studs are learning that crap?

 

[TedHendricksOffspring]

Everybody agrees 7-6 would be awful. But I still don't understand why so many people are PREDICTING 6-7 wins. We won 9 last year and the roster got better. I expect 10 wins.

I think mostly everybody is of the mindset that a lot of experience is being lost and to expect true freshmen to come in replace redshirt seniors immediately is a tall order. We did win 9 games last year and the talent did get better, but the schedule got significantly harder. Unproven guys like Williams at the most important position and the fact that guys are returning from injury leave a lot of question marks. Couple that with a defensive line that will likely remain just as poor in a scheme that does not play to their strengths, that will keep the defense in an awful state. Lastly, a bad loss to Louisville (very possible.) and later a bad loss to Nebraska (also very possible.) to start the season at 2-2 could get the team to quit, as we've seen before. What 10 games do you see us winning?

Not expecting freshmen to replace redshirt seniors. For every Jimmy Gaines that's leaving, we have a Jermaine Grace or Raphael Kirby waiting who is more talented and has been learning the system.

But if we're expecting these young players to have developed to the point we are all hoping that they have, how come Highsmith, Rodgers II, and Gaines were on the field as untalented and unproductive as they were when better options such as Carter, Grace, Kirby, and Fentress that weren't getting playing time? At worst, they would have been on par production wise.

You still have to know the system. Like it or not, but D'Onofrio runs a conservative D. The last thing he'll do is let a freshman on the field if he thinks there will be an assignment bust. In the case of Rodgers and Highsmith, we run a quarters coverage much of the time. That is very complicated, and you can't expect every true freshman to pick it up quickly. Plus, there is a limit to how many true freshmen you can have on the field at once. AQM, Burns and Figs all played alot.

I'm saying that between Grace and Kirby at LB (and possibly one of Young and Owens if they learn enough this spring), Corn Elder and Jamal Carter in the secondary, and Jelani, McCord, AQM, Kamalu and the JUCO boys on the DL, we should easily be able to replace the minutes the seniors gave us with athletically gifted players who have experience in the system and/or the college level. Not saying they all make the leap (some will, some won't), but chances are enough will so that the D will be upgraded.

If we get production from the true freshmen like we got from AQM, Burns and Figatron, that's a bonus.

I think you partially hit the nail on the head. The defensive system is not geared for the players we recruit and therefore does not allow for the best players to get on the field. When fans need to say, "Like it or not, but D'Onofrio runs a conservative D." there's a problem. D'Onofrio would rather keep his current system and put inferior players/product on the field then change the scheme and put young guys out there.

I wouldn't say Figs played a lot only because he got hurt, but AQM, Burns, and him all showed flashes. So did Chickilo as a freshman, only for the staff to blow him up with weight and take away his effectiveness. That could happen here as well.

I don't see the DL improving. Jenkins should be redshirted and Moten will probably see spot duty. Therefore, Heurtelou and Wyche will be the only new tackles seeing new quality minutes. Them mixed with Pierre leaves us just as shallow at the position as before, maybe even more shallow because Porter had his moments and Renfrow was extremely serviceable. I don't know if they're better than those two. Jelani couldn't sniff the field this year when we were awful at the position so I don't know why in year 4 people think he'll make a miraculous transformation into a stud. At end, I feel a little more confident. Chickilo will be quality, but the other side will be interesting. I'd like to see Kamalu there because he had his spurts of quality too, but I don't know if he brings the same outstanding coverage skills that Green possessed. (That's a joke.)

At the other defensive positions, the guys already on the roster have zero playing time and are just true wild cards like Grace, Kirby, and Elder. But those are wait and see situations. Finally, if all the freshmen last year couldn't get their feet wet on the field because they either couldn't learn the defense or D'Onofrio didn't want them being aggressive, why should these defensive freshmen be any different? Are they just a much smarter group?

I envy that you can be so optimistic about the defense next season. You make a lot of good points and I do see it from your prospective, but the past two years have contained promises of a massively improved defense that has never come. But I really hope I'm wrong and you're right.

 

[killa1storm]

I know y'all boys hate D'onofrio but he's right. AD's aren't supposed to make decisions on who is on staff, that's on the head coach. If he doesn't want to make a move oh well, but the results will reflect on him.

So basically he's not telling Golden what to do with his staff, but if it doesn't work then its on Golden's ***.

 

[CaneAlmighty]

I am so sick and tired of this amateur hour hiring by the supposed 'bright' people in the Administrations.

For God's sake, when we get rid of this current amateur, get a proven program builder, a proven 305 recruiter, a proven talent evaluator, and a proven Head Coach with the nuances characteristic of the 305.

Get Butch!

And quit sihtting the bed on these hires!

I love Butch.. but you don't have the patience to see through a rebuilding job done by Butch.
He had a losing season, Had embarrassing losses to SU 66-13 and ECU. Was 0-10 vs FSU and VT at one point. Many of the losses were blowouts. And he had really no track record to speak of to point that indicated that he was the man for the job to get the program back. None.
Finally after 5 years he had his break out year his 6th.
So you impatient mopers out of all people should cease the "we want Butch" cry.

Butch also had quality wins along the way like beating #1 ucla. He beat a star laden Syracuse team etc etc. those were the flashes he showed despite -31 ships. Golden has done nothin of the sort which is why the comparison is dumb.

Miami had more talented than Syracuse and UCLA. In fact the only team that his teams didn't have more talent than were FSU's.
So if showing "flashes" to you means beating teams you have more talent than I don't know what to say about your football acumen.

 

[CaneAlmighty]

I'm sorry but we never loss as bad when we had randy. Maybe 2 or 3 bad losses. Randy also played a tougher schedule and beat good teams and was competitive in most games. Defense was consistently a top 15-20 defense...... He also had multiple players go to the nfl on d EVERY YEAR. With golden we have had more than 7 bad losses.... Duke 13, va tech 13,fsu 13, louisville 13, Ksu 12,Nd 12,fsu 12, Maryland 11, and many more but I don't have time to name them. Golden better quit playing mind games, this sh^t ain't working. I'm tired of this fu^king 2 gap defense, it doesn't work at all. Quit doing it.

In all fairness, the roster left behind by Randy was an absolute sht show. While he was competing and had a couple more decent wins, he was setting HIMSELF up for future failures by the recruiting job he was doing.

In all fairness, the roster that Randy took over was also a **** show. It was no better than what Randy left Golden and in all reality might have been worse.

How is that in all fairness when Golden didn't have a part in recruiting the talent that he would ultimately inherited?
Shannon had the added advantage of already being familiar with the players since he helped recruit and coach them.
So no, it's not in all fairness.

 

[UMFarArcher]

Blake can easily evaluate Golden as a dumbass for keeping a ****poor Defensive Coordinator - Coach 500 - sometimes known as D'Buttsquirt.

 

[TedHendricksOffspring]

I am so sick and tired of this amateur hour hiring by the supposed 'bright' people in the Administrations.

For God's sake, when we get rid of this current amateur, get a proven program builder, a proven 305 recruiter, a proven talent evaluator, and a proven Head Coach with the nuances characteristic of the 305.

Get Butch!

And quit sihtting the bed on these hires!

I love Butch.. but you don't have the patience to see through a rebuilding job done by Butch.
He had a losing season, Had embarrassing losses to SU 66-13 and ECU. Was 0-10 vs FSU and VT at one point. Many of the losses were blowouts. And he had really no track record to speak of to point that indicated that he was the man for the job to get the program back. None.
Finally after 5 years he had his break out year his 6th.
So you impatient mopers out of all people should cease the "we want Butch" cry.

Butch also had quality wins along the way like beating #1 ucla. He beat a star laden Syracuse team etc etc. those were the flashes he showed despite -31 ships. Golden has done nothin of the sort which is why the comparison is dumb.

Miami had more talented than Syracuse and UCLA. In fact the only team that his teams didn't have more talent than were FSU's.
So if showing "flashes" to you means beating teams you have more talent than I don't know what to say about your football acumen.

That's debatable. We're talking about a redshirt freshman Ed Reed and a sophomore Al Blades. The greater talent on the team was extremely young and hadn't had a chance to develop yet. Syracuse had a Heisman candidate QB that went on to be a pro-bowler in Donovan McNabb and UCLA had a team where multiple guys would go on to play in the NFL and both teams later played in BCS bowl games. They were extremely talented and I would say more talented at the time than we were.

 

[poncho0091]

I'm sorry but we never loss as bad when we had randy. Maybe 2 or 3 bad losses. Randy also played a tougher schedule and beat good teams and was competitive in most games. Defense was consistently a top 15-20 defense...... He also had multiple players go to the nfl on d EVERY YEAR. With golden we have had more than 7 bad losses.... Duke 13, va tech 13,fsu 13, louisville 13, Ksu 12,Nd 12,fsu 12, Maryland 11, and many more but I don't have time to name them. Golden better quit playing mind games, this sh^t ain't working. I'm tired of this fu^king 2 gap defense, it doesn't work at all. Quit doing it.

In all fairness, the roster left behind by Randy was an absolute sht show. While he was competing and had a couple more decent wins, he was setting HIMSELF up for future failures by the recruiting job he was doing.

In all fairness, the roster that Randy took over was also a **** show. It was no better than what Randy left Golden and in all reality might have been worse.

How is that in all fairness when Golden didn't have a part in recruiting the talent that he would ultimately inherited?
Shannon had the added advantage of already being familiar with the players since he helped recruit and coach them.
So no, it's not in all fairness.

It's still in all fairness because Randy was not the HC. He did not have the final say on which guys came here. Fair enough that he had a hand in recruiting them and had familiarity, but the final word goes to the HC, just like it will with Golden if this defense don't get its act right.

BTW, familiarity was not going to help with the guys we had on the field at that time when he took over. I'm not 100% on this, but I believe Randy left more players to Golden that got drafted than the players Randy got handed that were drafted.

 

[terra99pin]

I think you partially hit the nail on the head. The defensive system is not geared for the players we recruit and therefore does not allow for the best players to get on the field. When fans need to say, "Like it or not, but D'Onofrio runs a conservative D." there's a problem. D'Onofrio would rather keep his current system and put inferior players/product on the field then change the scheme and put young guys out there.

I wouldn't say Figs played a lot only because he got hurt, but AQM, Burns, and him all showed flashes. So did Chickilo as a freshman, only for the staff to blow him up with weight and take away his effectiveness. That could happen here as well.

I don't see the DL improving. Jenkins should be redshirted and Moten will probably see spot duty. Therefore, Heurtelou and Wyche will be the only new tackles seeing new quality minutes. Them mixed with Pierre leaves us just as shallow at the position as before, maybe even more shallow because Porter had his moments and Renfrow was extremely serviceable. I don't know if they're better than those two. Jelani couldn't sniff the field this year when we were awful at the position so I don't know why in year 4 people think he'll make a miraculous transformation into a stud. At end, I feel a little more confident. Chickilo will be quality, but the other side will be interesting. I'd like to see Kamalu there because he had his spurts of quality too, but I don't know if he brings the same outstanding coverage skills that Green possessed. (That's a joke.)

At the other defensive positions, the guys already on the roster have zero playing time and are just true wild cards like Grace, Kirby, and Elder. But those are wait and see situations. Finally, if all the freshmen last year couldn't get their feet wet on the field because they either couldn't learn the defense or D'Onofrio didn't want them being aggressive, why should these defensive freshmen be any different? Are they just a much smarter group?

I envy that you can be so optimistic about the defense next season. You make a lot of good points and I do see it from your prospective, but the past two years have contained promises of a massively improved defense that has never come. But I really hope I'm wrong and you're right.

I think we probably agree on most things. I just think our conclusions are different. I am definitely Not sold on the defensive system. I just see our talent as being better than last year, so I don't see why we should expect less than 9 wins. Our division sucks!

And I will disagree with the people in this thread who have written off Coley. I like him and think he'll be a good OC.

 

[luke137]

Blake is a coward and doesn't have the balls to stand up to Shalala. Jeremy Foley would have fired Dino last year without even blinking.

 

[AntwanJ306]

Blake is a coward and doesn't have the balls to stand up to Shalala. Jeremy Foley would have fired Dino last year without even blinking.

All speculation, which adds absolutely nothing to this thread.

 

[CaneAlmighty]

I am so sick and tired of this amateur hour hiring by the supposed 'bright' people in the Administrations.

For God's sake, when we get rid of this current amateur, get a proven program builder, a proven 305 recruiter, a proven talent evaluator, and a proven Head Coach with the nuances characteristic of the 305.

Get Butch!

And quit sihtting the bed on these hires!

I love Butch.. but you don't have the patience to see through a rebuilding job done by Butch.
He had a losing season, Had embarrassing losses to SU 66-13 and ECU. Was 0-10 vs FSU and VT at one point. Many of the losses were blowouts. And he had really no track record to speak of to point that indicated that he was the man for the job to get the program back. None.
Finally after 5 years he had his break out year his 6th.
So you impatient mopers out of all people should cease the "we want Butch" cry.

Butch also had quality wins along the way like beating #1 ucla. He beat a star laden Syracuse team etc etc. those were the flashes he showed despite -31 ships. Golden has done nothin of the sort which is why the comparison is dumb.

Miami had more talented than Syracuse and UCLA. In fact the only team that his teams didn't have more talent than were FSU's.
So if showing "flashes" to you means beating teams you have more talent than I don't know what to say about your football acumen.

That's debatable. We're talking about a redshirt freshman Ed Reed and a sophomore Al Blades. The greater talent on the team was extremely young and hadn't had a chance to develop yet. Syracuse had a Heisman candidate QB that went on to be a pro-bowler in Donovan McNabb and UCLA had a team where multiple guys would go on to play in the NFL and both teams later played in BCS bowl games. They were extremely talented and I would say more talented at the time than we were.

No, LEnites is talking about showing flashes by beating SU in 95 and 96 with guys like Ray Lewis, Yatil Green, Lang, Mack, Holmes, Starks etc..
And UCLA had like 4-5 players from that 98 team that were drafted and ended up doing nothing in the League. Miami had like 10.

I know that bringing up Butch highlights some facts that make you all uncomfortable and quite frankly weren't probably expecting as it refutes your current arguments against Golden.

 

[UMFarArcher]

Golden and his jock sniffers have more excuses than the collective Wal-Marts have suppositories. And they both do the same thing.

Does anyone else ever get weary of hearing about "player development" with this coaching staff, especially the defense?

see these "kids" playing better ball, with better instincts, better positioning, and more aggressiveness in high school.

Blake may have to spout the Corporate line, but I'd bet the pressure is on - and squeezing hard.

 

[TedHendricksOffspring]

I think you partially hit the nail on the head. The defensive system is not geared for the players we recruit and therefore does not allow for the best players to get on the field. When fans need to say, "Like it or not, but D'Onofrio runs a conservative D." there's a problem. D'Onofrio would rather keep his current system and put inferior players/product on the field then change the scheme and put young guys out there.

I wouldn't say Figs played a lot only because he got hurt, but AQM, Burns, and him all showed flashes. So did Chickilo as a freshman, only for the staff to blow him up with weight and take away his effectiveness. That could happen here as well.

I don't see the DL improving. Jenkins should be redshirted and Moten will probably see spot duty. Therefore, Heurtelou and Wyche will be the only new tackles seeing new quality minutes. Them mixed with Pierre leaves us just as shallow at the position as before, maybe even more shallow because Porter had his moments and Renfrow was extremely serviceable. I don't know if they're better than those two. Jelani couldn't sniff the field this year when we were awful at the position so I don't know why in year 4 people think he'll make a miraculous transformation into a stud. At end, I feel a little more confident. Chickilo will be quality, but the other side will be interesting. I'd like to see Kamalu there because he had his spurts of quality too, but I don't know if he brings the same outstanding coverage skills that Green possessed. (That's a joke.)

At the other defensive positions, the guys already on the roster have zero playing time and are just true wild cards like Grace, Kirby, and Elder. But those are wait and see situations. Finally, if all the freshmen last year couldn't get their feet wet on the field because they either couldn't learn the defense or D'Onofrio didn't want them being aggressive, why should these defensive freshmen be any different? Are they just a much smarter group?

I envy that you can be so optimistic about the defense next season. You make a lot of good points and I do see it from your prospective, but the past two years have contained promises of a massively improved defense that has never come. But I really hope I'm wrong and you're right.

I think we probably agree on most things. I just think our conclusions are different. I am definitely Not sold on the defensive system. I just see our talent as being better than last year, so I don't see why we should expect less than 9 wins. Our division sucks!

And I will disagree with the people in this thread who have written off Coley. I like him and think he'll be a good OC.

I like Coley too. He had his moments and I want to see if he learns and makes changes the way a good coordinator should and the way D'Onofrio doesn't.

The talent is better. No doubt about it. But we had a talent advantage over every team last year except FSU. I hope something changes, I just don't know if it will. It's going to be an agonizing off season to wait for the answer and I think the best time to evaluate it will be after Nebraska. If we're 2-2, I think we'll have our answer.

 

[TedHendricksOffspring]

I love Butch.. but you don't have the patience to see through a rebuilding job done by Butch.
He had a losing season, Had embarrassing losses to SU 66-13 and ECU. Was 0-10 vs FSU and VT at one point. Many of the losses were blowouts. And he had really no track record to speak of to point that indicated that he was the man for the job to get the program back. None.
Finally after 5 years he had his break out year his 6th.
So you impatient mopers out of all people should cease the "we want Butch" cry.

Butch also had quality wins along the way like beating #1 ucla. He beat a star laden Syracuse team etc etc. those were the flashes he showed despite -31 ships. Golden has done nothin of the sort which is why the comparison is dumb.

Miami had more talented than Syracuse and UCLA. In fact the only team that his teams didn't have more talent than were FSU's.
So if showing "flashes" to you means beating teams you have more talent than I don't know what to say about your football acumen.

That's debatable. We're talking about a redshirt freshman Ed Reed and a sophomore Al Blades. The greater talent on the team was extremely young and hadn't had a chance to develop yet. Syracuse had a Heisman candidate QB that went on to be a pro-bowler in Donovan McNabb and UCLA had a team where multiple guys would go on to play in the NFL and both teams later played in BCS bowl games. They were extremely talented and I would say more talented at the time than we were.

No, LEnites is talking about showing flashes by beating SU in 95 and 96 with guys like Ray Lewis, Yatil Green, Lang, Mack, Holmes, Starks etc..
And UCLA had like 4-5 players from that 98 team that were drafted and ended up doing nothing in the League. Miami had like 10.

I know that bringing up Butch highlights some facts that make you all uncomfortable and quite frankly weren't probably expecting as it refutes your current arguments against Golden.

That's an Al Golden-esque statement there in terms of cherry picking statistics. Why don't you tell me how with all our forced fumbles the defense is trending up?

1998 was year 4 for Butch. He went 9-3 and 5-2 in conference. Of his 3 losses, one was to VT 27-20 in OT. VT finished ranked #19 and went to the national championship the next year. He lost to FSU 26-14 in a season where they lost in the national champion game before winning the next year and going again the year after that. His final loss was to Syracuse (8-4) 66-13 in the de facto Big East championship game, the worst loss in school history. That Syracuse team lost national champion Tennessee by 1 and lost to three other teams that finished ranked by an average of 15 points or so. That loss is inexcusable.

But that 1998 team also beat the teams they were supposed to by the margin they were supposed to. There were no struggles against the Wake Forests of the world. 49 points over East Tennessee, 26 points over Cincinnati, 36 points over Rutgers, 3 points over #13 West Virginia (who beat Syracuse and #1 Ohio State that year.), 18 points over Boston College, 35 points over Temple, 28 points over Pittsburgh, 4 points over #3 UCLA, and 23 points over NC State (who also beat Syracuse.) in a bowl game. There was clear improvement against the very good teams and dominant victories over the average to below average teams. Furthermore, it doesn't matter if UCLA didn't send anybody to the NFL, they were the undefeated #3 ranked team in the country during the last week of the season when we played them. Of these 10 NFL players we had on the roster, how many played and how good were they? Ed Reed was redshirt freshman that barely saw the field. Al Blades was an unpolished sophomore. Martin Bibla didn't even play. So that argument is pointless.

I understand being pro-Golden especially with all this negativity towards him on this board, but you are attempting to rewrite history to make it seem like Butch is not as good as people are making him out to be. You mention his 5-6 season while ignoring the fact that he had at least 9 walk on's starting and getting major playing time. How many walk on's has Golden had to play consistently? Butch wasn't perfect, but he inherited a far worse situation than Golden and he made lemonade out of lemons a lot faster than Golden did. There were reasons to be optimistic for Butch during his early tenure here. I'm struggling to find many for Golden.

I know that you've become so pro-Golden that you would rather dig your heels in with him and stick your head in the sand to pretend Butch is some sort of legend that the anti-Golden people have constructed to put Golden down, but that's just a falsehood that you're spreading. It boils down to the facts that Butch beat good teams, Golden hasn't. Butch could develop players past their initial evaluations, other than Perryman Golden hasn't. Butch's players didn't quit on him or have to be convinced to get up and play for a game. I know that realizing that you have little to no reason to be excited for Golden is a tough pill to swallow and makes you uncomfortable. You also probably weren't expecting to realize that your pro-Golden arguments are empty and your anti-Butch argument is just a lie, but hey now you know.