UM AD Blake "I evaluate our Head Coach" Al Golden not his DC

[CaneAlmighty]

Butch also had quality wins along the way like beating #1 ucla. He beat a star laden Syracuse team etc etc. those were the flashes he showed despite -31 ships. Golden has done nothin of the sort which is why the comparison is dumb.

Miami had more talented than Syracuse and UCLA. In fact the only team that his teams didn't have more talent than were FSU's.
So if showing "flashes" to you means beating teams you have more talent than I don't know what to say about your football acumen.

That's debatable. We're talking about a redshirt freshman Ed Reed and a sophomore Al Blades. The greater talent on the team was extremely young and hadn't had a chance to develop yet. Syracuse had a Heisman candidate QB that went on to be a pro-bowler in Donovan McNabb and UCLA had a team where multiple guys would go on to play in the NFL and both teams later played in BCS bowl games. They were extremely talented and I would say more talented at the time than we were.

No, LEnites is talking about showing flashes by beating SU in 95 and 96 with guys like Ray Lewis, Yatil Green, Lang, Mack, Holmes, Starks etc..
And UCLA had like 4-5 players from that 98 team that were drafted and ended up doing nothing in the League. Miami had like 10.

I know that bringing up Butch highlights some facts that make you all uncomfortable and quite frankly weren't probably expecting as it refutes your current arguments against Golden.

That's an Al Golden-esque statement there in terms of cherry picking statistics. Why don't you tell me how with all our forced fumbles the defense is trending up?

1998 was year 4 for Butch. He went 9-3 and 5-2 in conference. Of his 3 losses, one was to VT 27-20 in OT. VT finished ranked #19 and went to the national championship the next year. He lost to FSU 26-14 in a season where they lost in the national champion game before winning the next year and going again the year after that. His final loss was to Syracuse (8-4) 66-13 in the de facto Big East championship game, the worst loss in school history. That Syracuse team lost national champion Tennessee by 1 and lost to three other teams that finished ranked by an average of 15 points or so. That loss is inexcusable.

But that 1998 team also beat the teams they were supposed to by the margin they were supposed to. There were no struggles against the Wake Forests of the world. 49 points over East Tennessee, 26 points over Cincinnati, 36 points over Rutgers, 3 points over #13 West Virginia (who beat Syracuse and #1 Ohio State that year.), 18 points over Boston College, 35 points over Temple, 28 points over Pittsburgh, 4 points over #3 UCLA, and 23 points over NC State (who also beat Syracuse.) in a bowl game. There was clear improvement against the very good teams and dominant victories over the average to below average teams. Furthermore, it doesn't matter if UCLA didn't send anybody to the NFL, they were the undefeated #3 ranked team in the country during the last week of the season when we played them. Of these 10 NFL players we had on the roster, how many played and how good were they? Ed Reed was redshirt freshman that barely saw the field. Al Blades was an unpolished sophomore. Martin Bibla didn't even play. So that argument is pointless.

I understand being pro-Golden especially with all this negativity towards him on this board, but you are attempting to rewrite history to make it seem like Butch is not as good as people are making him out to be. You mention his 5-6 season while ignoring the fact that he had at least 9 walk on's starting and getting major playing time. How many walk on's has Golden had to play consistently? Butch wasn't perfect, but he inherited a far worse situation than Golden and he made lemonade out of lemons a lot faster than Golden did. There were reasons to be optimistic for Butch during his early tenure here. I'm struggling to find many for Golden.

I know that you've become so pro-Golden that you would rather dig your heels in with him and stick your head in the sand to pretend Butch is some sort of legend that the anti-Golden people have constructed to put Golden down, but that's just a falsehood that you're spreading. It boils down to the facts that Butch beat good teams, Golden hasn't. Butch could develop players past their initial evaluations, other than Perryman Golden hasn't. Butch's players didn't quit on him or have to be convinced to get up and play for a game. I know that realizing that you have little to no reason to be excited for Golden is a tough pill to swallow and makes you uncomfortable. You also probably weren't expecting to realize that your pro-Golden arguments are empty and your anti-Butch argument is just a lie, but hey now you know.

LOL..Follow along.
I'm just laughing at fools who think Butch would have had this team further along then what Golden has them when history shows that Butch had the same struggles during rebuilding and that if this board had been around back he'd been bashed just as bad as Golden's being bashed.
They didn't fly a banner over the OB calling for his firing for nothing.
That's why I find it comical when you here the mopers cry for Butch the savior.
I would have been all for Butch being hired back in 2011 and would have been just Pro Butch as I am Pro Golden during his rebuild job which would have taken him just as long as it has Golden.

 

[TedHendricksOffspring]

Miami had more talented than Syracuse and UCLA. In fact the only team that his teams didn't have more talent than were FSU's.
So if showing "flashes" to you means beating teams you have more talent than I don't know what to say about your football acumen.

That's debatable. We're talking about a redshirt freshman Ed Reed and a sophomore Al Blades. The greater talent on the team was extremely young and hadn't had a chance to develop yet. Syracuse had a Heisman candidate QB that went on to be a pro-bowler in Donovan McNabb and UCLA had a team where multiple guys would go on to play in the NFL and both teams later played in BCS bowl games. They were extremely talented and I would say more talented at the time than we were.

No, LEnites is talking about showing flashes by beating SU in 95 and 96 with guys like Ray Lewis, Yatil Green, Lang, Mack, Holmes, Starks etc..
And UCLA had like 4-5 players from that 98 team that were drafted and ended up doing nothing in the League. Miami had like 10.

I know that bringing up Butch highlights some facts that make you all uncomfortable and quite frankly weren't probably expecting as it refutes your current arguments against Golden.

That's an Al Golden-esque statement there in terms of cherry picking statistics. Why don't you tell me how with all our forced fumbles the defense is trending up?

1998 was year 4 for Butch. He went 9-3 and 5-2 in conference. Of his 3 losses, one was to VT 27-20 in OT. VT finished ranked #19 and went to the national championship the next year. He lost to FSU 26-14 in a season where they lost in the national champion game before winning the next year and going again the year after that. His final loss was to Syracuse (8-4) 66-13 in the de facto Big East championship game, the worst loss in school history. That Syracuse team lost national champion Tennessee by 1 and lost to three other teams that finished ranked by an average of 15 points or so. That loss is inexcusable.

But that 1998 team also beat the teams they were supposed to by the margin they were supposed to. There were no struggles against the Wake Forests of the world. 49 points over East Tennessee, 26 points over Cincinnati, 36 points over Rutgers, 3 points over #13 West Virginia (who beat Syracuse and #1 Ohio State that year.), 18 points over Boston College, 35 points over Temple, 28 points over Pittsburgh, 4 points over #3 UCLA, and 23 points over NC State (who also beat Syracuse.) in a bowl game. There was clear improvement against the very good teams and dominant victories over the average to below average teams. Furthermore, it doesn't matter if UCLA didn't send anybody to the NFL, they were the undefeated #3 ranked team in the country during the last week of the season when we played them. Of these 10 NFL players we had on the roster, how many played and how good were they? Ed Reed was redshirt freshman that barely saw the field. Al Blades was an unpolished sophomore. Martin Bibla didn't even play. So that argument is pointless.

I understand being pro-Golden especially with all this negativity towards him on this board, but you are attempting to rewrite history to make it seem like Butch is not as good as people are making him out to be. You mention his 5-6 season while ignoring the fact that he had at least 9 walk on's starting and getting major playing time. How many walk on's has Golden had to play consistently? Butch wasn't perfect, but he inherited a far worse situation than Golden and he made lemonade out of lemons a lot faster than Golden did. There were reasons to be optimistic for Butch during his early tenure here. I'm struggling to find many for Golden.

I know that you've become so pro-Golden that you would rather dig your heels in with him and stick your head in the sand to pretend Butch is some sort of legend that the anti-Golden people have constructed to put Golden down, but that's just a falsehood that you're spreading. It boils down to the facts that Butch beat good teams, Golden hasn't. Butch could develop players past their initial evaluations, other than Perryman Golden hasn't. Butch's players didn't quit on him or have to be convinced to get up and play for a game. I know that realizing that you have little to no reason to be excited for Golden is a tough pill to swallow and makes you uncomfortable. You also probably weren't expecting to realize that your pro-Golden arguments are empty and your anti-Butch argument is just a lie, but hey now you know.

LOL..Follow along.
I'm just laughing at fools who think Butch would have had this team further along then what Golden has them when history shows that Butch had the same struggles during rebuilding and that if this board had been around back he'd been bashed just as bad as Golden's being bashed.
They didn't fly a banner over the OB calling for his firing for nothing.
That's why I find it comical when you here the mopers cry for Butch the savior.
I would have been all for Butch being hired back in 2011 and would have been just Pro Butch as I am Pro Golden during his rebuild job which would have taken him just as long as it has Golden.

There's a lot of reasons to think it would be further along if Butch was coach. He took average talent players and got them to play above their heads while other Perryman, Golden hasn't. Butch's struggles were from having 31 scholarship reductions, which is a much heavier burden to bear than what Golden was dealt. Butch was getting bashed when fan expectations were at their most unrealistic, especially considering the difficulty of schedule he played in comparison. They did fly a banner over the OB for nothing. He went 5-6 while playing walk ons, something Golden hasn't had to do yet.

The biggest thing that separates Butch from Golden is that Butch's players clearly and visibly improved every year. They developed and it was obvious to anybody that watched. Other than Perryman, who has played above their initial evaluations. You got guys like Chickilo and Henderson who have played below their potential for one reason or another. Butch also had the guts to fire a defensive coordinator that wasn't getting the job done. As far as I'm concerned, if Butch had been hired in 2011, which was unrealistic expectation because he was dealing with his own NCAA issues, we would be further along the rebuilding road then we are now. That being said, the people saying that we would have gone to or won the national championship game this year with Butch as the coach are also being unrealistic.

Final judgment on if Golden is the right guy for the job will be seen after the upcoming season. If Golden is fired, Butch is a very possible, very attractive, and maybe even very likely candidate for all the people that want him so badly. If Golden does impress us all and we see the strides that we want to see, than we know we have the right man for the job.

 

[AntwanJ306]

They did fly a banner over the OB for nothing.

This is one of those things where no one takes credit for all of that anti-Butch stuff. ****, it completely split the old Grassy board. CanesForever, Burtreynolds, etc., had the whole "Botch" and "Freckles" thing going in full force to dominate that board. Now everyone (not saying you, Ted) looks back and excuses Butch for everything he had to deal with even though we had all that information then, too.

 

[TedHendricksOffspring]

They did fly a banner over the OB for nothing.

This is one of those things where no one takes credit for all of that anti-Butch stuff. ****, it completely split the old Grassy board. CanesForever, Burtreynolds, etc., had the whole "Botch" and "Freckles" thing going in full force to dominate that board. Now everyone (not saying you, Ted) looks back and excuses Butch for everything he had to deal with even though we had all that information then, too.

I know what you mean. Butch was getting crucified in year 2 when he was coming one of the closest things to the death penalty that anybody has ever gotten. Hindsight is 20-20 and everybody, including the people that were the harshest critics of Butch, act like they never doubted him or had unfair expectations of him. Butch was by no means a perfect coach and he literally lied his way out the back door back in 2000, but the fact remains he could have done wonders here and he might get a second shot depending on Golden's success.

The thing about scholarship reductions that people don't realize is that they don't hurt you immediately. They hurt 3 years down the road when they pile up and the depth is marginal. So when Butch was playing walk ons the fans turned a blind eye to it and were shocked we weren't winning. Hopefully we've gotten a little bit more mature and are evaluating Golden more fairly then many did Butch.

 

[LEmeyers]

I am so sick and tired of this amateur hour hiring by the supposed 'bright' people in the Administrations.

For God's sake, when we get rid of this current amateur, get a proven program builder, a proven 305 recruiter, a proven talent evaluator, and a proven Head Coach with the nuances characteristic of the 305.

Get Butch!

And quit sihtting the bed on these hires!

I love Butch.. but you don't have the patience to see through a rebuilding job done by Butch.
He had a losing season, Had embarrassing losses to SU 66-13 and ECU. Was 0-10 vs FSU and VT at one point. Many of the losses were blowouts. And he had really no track record to speak of to point that indicated that he was the man for the job to get the program back. None.
Finally after 5 years he had his break out year his 6th.
So you impatient mopers out of all people should cease the "we want Butch" cry.

Butch also had quality wins along the way like beating #1 ucla. He beat a star laden Syracuse team etc etc. those were the flashes he showed despite -31 ships. Golden has done nothin of the sort which is why the comparison is dumb.

Miami had more talented than Syracuse and UCLA. In fact the only team that his teams didn't have more talent than were FSU's.
So if showing "flashes" to you means beating teams you have more talent than I don't know what to say about your football acumen.

U claim they had more talent? That's a tribute to that hc. Davis was -31 ships. U cry about depth yet Davis dosnt get that same excuse. Bottom line is most any coach that turned a program around had sig wins....golden hasn't done chit

 

[Miami82]

They did fly a banner over the OB for nothing.

This is one of those things where no one takes credit for all of that anti-Butch stuff. ****, it completely split the old Grassy board. CanesForever, Burtreynolds, etc., had the whole "Botch" and "Freckles" thing going in full force to dominate that board. Now everyone (not saying you, Ted) looks back and excuses Butch for everything he had to deal with even though we had all that information then, too.

I know what you mean. Butch was getting crucified in year 2 when he was coming one of the closest things to the death penalty that anybody has ever gotten. Hindsight is 20-20 and everybody, including the people that were the harshest critics of Butch, act like they never doubted him or had unfair expectations of him. Butch was by no means a perfect coach and he literally lied his way out the back door back in 2000, but the fact remains he could have done wonders here and he might get a second shot depending on Golden's success.

The thing about scholarship reductions that people don't realize is that they don't hurt you immediately. They hurt 3 years down the road when they pile up and the depth is marginal. So when Butch was playing walk ons the fans turned a blind eye to it and were shocked we weren't winning. Hopefully we've gotten a little bit more mature and are evaluating Golden more fairly then many did Butch.

First off any ****head trying to compare what Butch went through and Golden are truly clueless and riding the short yellow bus. Yes I'm talking about goldenalmighty... The most agenda driven porster on this board.

Butch wasn't perfect by any stretch but he was constantly improving, talent, scheming, and he could motivate a team. I never saw a team quit on Butch.

 

[CANE]

Hopefully we've gotten a little bit more mature and are evaluating Golden more fairly then many did Butch.

 

[LEmeyers]

That's debatable. We're talking about a redshirt freshman Ed Reed and a sophomore Al Blades. The greater talent on the team was extremely young and hadn't had a chance to develop yet. Syracuse had a Heisman candidate QB that went on to be a pro-bowler in Donovan McNabb and UCLA had a team where multiple guys would go on to play in the NFL and both teams later played in BCS bowl games. They were extremely talented and I would say more talented at the time than we were.

No, LEnites is talking about showing flashes by beating SU in 95 and 96 with guys like Ray Lewis, Yatil Green, Lang, Mack, Holmes, Starks etc..
And UCLA had like 4-5 players from that 98 team that were drafted and ended up doing nothing in the League. Miami had like 10.

I know that bringing up Butch highlights some facts that make you all uncomfortable and quite frankly weren't probably expecting as it refutes your current arguments against Golden.

That's an Al Golden-esque statement there in terms of cherry picking statistics. Why don't you tell me how with all our forced fumbles the defense is trending up?

1998 was year 4 for Butch. He went 9-3 and 5-2 in conference. Of his 3 losses, one was to VT 27-20 in OT. VT finished ranked #19 and went to the national championship the next year. He lost to FSU 26-14 in a season where they lost in the national champion game before winning the next year and going again the year after that. His final loss was to Syracuse (8-4) 66-13 in the de facto Big East championship game, the worst loss in school history. That Syracuse team lost national champion Tennessee by 1 and lost to three other teams that finished ranked by an average of 15 points or so. That loss is inexcusable.

But that 1998 team also beat the teams they were supposed to by the margin they were supposed to. There were no struggles against the Wake Forests of the world. 49 points over East Tennessee, 26 points over Cincinnati, 36 points over Rutgers, 3 points over #13 West Virginia (who beat Syracuse and #1 Ohio State that year.), 18 points over Boston College, 35 points over Temple, 28 points over Pittsburgh, 4 points over #3 UCLA, and 23 points over NC State (who also beat Syracuse.) in a bowl game. There was clear improvement against the very good teams and dominant victories over the average to below average teams. Furthermore, it doesn't matter if UCLA didn't send anybody to the NFL, they were the undefeated #3 ranked team in the country during the last week of the season when we played them. Of these 10 NFL players we had on the roster, how many played and how good were they? Ed Reed was redshirt freshman that barely saw the field. Al Blades was an unpolished sophomore. Martin Bibla didn't even play. So that argument is pointless.

I understand being pro-Golden especially with all this negativity towards him on this board, but you are attempting to rewrite history to make it seem like Butch is not as good as people are making him out to be. You mention his 5-6 season while ignoring the fact that he had at least 9 walk on's starting and getting major playing time. How many walk on's has Golden had to play consistently? Butch wasn't perfect, but he inherited a far worse situation than Golden and he made lemonade out of lemons a lot faster than Golden did. There were reasons to be optimistic for Butch during his early tenure here. I'm struggling to find many for Golden.

I know that you've become so pro-Golden that you would rather dig your heels in with him and stick your head in the sand to pretend Butch is some sort of legend that the anti-Golden people have constructed to put Golden down, but that's just a falsehood that you're spreading. It boils down to the facts that Butch beat good teams, Golden hasn't. Butch could develop players past their initial evaluations, other than Perryman Golden hasn't. Butch's players didn't quit on him or have to be convinced to get up and play for a game. I know that realizing that you have little to no reason to be excited for Golden is a tough pill to swallow and makes you uncomfortable. You also probably weren't expecting to realize that your pro-Golden arguments are empty and your anti-Butch argument is just a lie, but hey now you know.

LOL..Follow along.
I'm just laughing at fools who think Butch would have had this team further along then what Golden has them when history shows that Butch had the same struggles during rebuilding and that if this board had been around back he'd been bashed just as bad as Golden's being bashed.
They didn't fly a banner over the OB calling for his firing for nothing.
That's why I find it comical when you here the mopers cry for Butch the savior.
I would have been all for Butch being hired back in 2011 and would have been just Pro Butch as I am Pro Golden during his rebuild job which would have taken him just as long as it has Golden.

There's a lot of reasons to think it would be further along if Butch was coach. He took average talent players and got them to play above their heads while other Perryman, Golden hasn't. Butch's struggles were from having 31 scholarship reductions, which is a much heavier burden to bear than what Golden was dealt. Butch was getting bashed when fan expectations were at their most unrealistic, especially considering the difficulty of schedule he played in comparison. They did fly a banner over the OB for nothing. He went 5-6 while playing walk ons, something Golden hasn't had to do yet.

The biggest thing that separates Butch from Golden is that Butch's players clearly and visibly improved every year. They developed and it was obvious to anybody that watched. Other than Perryman, who has played above their initial evaluations. You got guys like Chickilo and Henderson who have played below their potential for one reason or another. Butch also had the guts to fire a defensive coordinator that wasn't getting the job done. As far as I'm concerned, if Butch had been hired in 2011, which was unrealistic expectation because he was dealing with his own NCAA issues, we would be further along the rebuilding road then we are now. That being said, the people saying that we would have gone to or won the national championship game this year with Butch as the coach are also being unrealistic.

Final judgment on if Golden is the right guy for the job will be seen after the upcoming season. If Golden is fired, Butch is a very possible, very attractive, and maybe even very likely candidate for all the people that want him so badly. If Golden does impress us all and we see the strides that we want to see, than we know we have the right man for the job.

Agree with everything except last paragraph....Golden has already proven he's not the man for the job. Even with more talent and experienced players he still leaves a lot to be desired. He just isn't a good coach.