Sean Spence weighs in on the Defense...interesting read

[LuCane]

Well off the top of my head, Memphis DE Martin Ifedi, Marylands Marcus Whitfield, Wake's Nikita Whitlock and Duke's Jeremy Cash are better than any player starting on Defense. Difference makers and guys you can build the rest of your defense around. We dont have 1 defensive player to build a defense around.

As just ONE example, if Nikita Whitlock were asked to play on our DLine, he'd get blocked into the goal post. If you can't acknowledge that, I don't know what to say.

Going with the extreme that everything you said is true and applies to what we're doing, what does selecting individual players from separate teams have to do with saying that out of our front 7, only Perryman would play at places like Maryland, Wake, Duke, Troy, Memphis and North Carolina Central? You understand you are saying Luther Robinson, Porter, Pierre and Chick would all not find any spot on any of those teams, correct?

They might play on those teams but they would be average there just like they are here. Fact is I listed better players from 4 teams you asked for. Those guys would make plays in any system because they are GOOD football players. Just like Wilkerson at Temple and Brooks at Virginia made plays in the same defense.

Any one of the players I listed would make our Defense much better. Ifedi can rush the passer, Whitfield can rush the passer and tackle, Nikita Whitlock can rush the passer, and Jeremy Cash has more tackles then all 4 safeties on our team added together.

Fact is, you talked about Front 7 and then listed a **** Safety (Cash). You have any clue how to stay on topic?

Bottom line: you listed players who couldn't even play here. It's hilarious that you listed Nikita Whitlock. Asked to play in our system, he'd get destroyed. Again, if you don't understand why, then that says everything. What if Luther Robinson or Pierre played in Nikita's system? Would they look better?

This should be interesting.

You have all this hostility lately. Are you just angry because I provided what you ask for. The Wake, Duke, Maryland and even Memphis has a better player than we do. But here we go again. Luther Robinson and Olsen Pierre were not good last year when we played mostly 4-3 and are not good this year in a 3-4. So why would I think they would be any better than average on any other team or scheme.

At least Nikita Whitlock has made plays. Bottom line is the NFL will be drafting all 4 of the guys I mentioned. While Robinson and Pierre might make practice squads.

Hostility? As I mentioned above, I think this is actually fun now. You guys are scrambling. You didn't give me anything I asked for. You mentioned a bunch of unrelated stuff. You claimed NO ONE from our front 7, other than Perryman, would play for any of those other teams. Then you went ahead and named me a handful of guys, one a Safety (LOL). Someone like Nikita Whitlock, a baby DL who couldn't do here anything close to what he's doing at Wake. You're proving my argument for me.

I agree Nikita Whitlock has made plays. He's a tiny DT playing in an upfield scheme that suits his strengths. Are you telling our recruits to leave us and go to those type of schools?

 

[LuCane]

We've entered into a new realm:

Apparently, people in this thread are claiming that, out of our front 7, only Perryman would play at places like Maryland, Wake, Duke, Troy, Memphis and North Carolina Central.

I officially concede. You guys have convinced me. Thank you.

Well off the top of my head, Memphis DE Martin Ifedi, Marylands Marcus Whitfield, Wake's Nikita Whitlock and Duke's Jeremy Cash are better than any player starting on Defense. Difference makers and guys you can build the rest of your defense around. We dont have 1 defensive player to build a defense around.

you have the 30 for 30 watchers stumped, congrats!

The funny thing is you actually believe that. Very entertaining.

who in the front 7 will be on an NFL roster 3 years from now.

Answer is a few maybe on the practice squad besides 52.

reality is a *****.

Apparently, now we need a squad of NFL players to perform up to the level of Navy and North Carolina Central. Thank you for proving that we have problems.

You're right. Our reality seems to be a *****.

 

[sebastian91]

We were a 4-3 in 2011 and is now a 3-4 so spence and futch didn't play in this D.

They never said they did play in this D. And Winston, Blades, and Starks didn't either. Chizik sure as **** didn't. All of these guys are just giving opinions, but at least Spence and Futch have played for the man.

 

[LuCane]

We were a 4-3 in 2011 and is now a 3-4 so spence and futch didn't play in this D.

They never said they did play in this D. And Winston, Blades, and Starks didn't either. Chizik sure as **** didn't. All of these guys are just giving opinions, but at least Spence and Futch have played for the man.

If that were the view being espoused on this thread, I'd say that's fair and reasonable. Not amazingly helpful because the topic is scheme, but fair and reasonable.

 

[QuadCityCane]

It's easy to point out those players on other teams now - they're getting superior coaching and are being developed. It's an indictment on our staff that these garbage *** kids are making plays in other defenses.

Go back to these kids coming out of high school, before Dorito got his grubby paws on them and coached them straight into the ground.


Martin Ifedi only other offer was New Mexico St.

Marcus Whitfeld was the 90th best player at his position, and was down to Maryland and WVU.

Nikita Whitlock held one other offer - SMU. He was a low 2 star.

Jeremy Cash was a 3 star and 25th ranked guy at his position.


Yet we're allowing 500 yards to offenses ranked in the 100s with these kids:

Anthony Chikillo - 3rd rated DE, 4 star, UF, Bama, FSU, Auburn, Clemson, Michigan, ND, South Carolina offers.
Curtis Porter - Offers from Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Michigan
Denzel Perryman - Offers from Auburn, UF, FSU, South Carolina
Tracy Howard - 5 star, #1 at his position. Kid could have named his school
Deon Bush - 4th best safety in the nation, 4 star, also could have named his school. BAMA was all over him
Tyriq McCord - 7th best at his position, 4 star, Goergia, South Carolina, ND, USC, UF, FSU all on his ****
Raphael Kirby - 5th best at his position, 4 star, Offer list looked like a ****ing medieval scroll, Could have played anywhere
Luther Robinson - 4 star and 18th at his position in the country.


So, we can't get any of these kids to make plays, yet these nobodies are carrying defenses. And that's not coaching? You don't think Memphis, Maryland, Wake, and Duke would switch players with us on every signing day? You're only proving that even with superior incoming talent, the staff can't get these kids to stop offenses ranked in the 100s from destroying them.

When do we have enough talent to not get annihilated by awful offenses? Does this staff need the #1 ranked player at every position? Will that be enough?

I have already made this point 100 times, its talent and coaching.

Jimmy Johnson's 29-25-3 at Oklahoma St goes to Miami gets players like Jerome Brown, Michael Irvin, etc.. Wins a title. Goes to Cowboys, goes 1-15, gets Aikman, Smith, Irvin, Maryland etc wins 2 super bowls, goes to Miami never does better than 10-6. Is he a good coach or not? He didnt win at Oklahoma St. but he won at Miami. He didnt win with the Dolphins but he won with Dallas.
Bill Belichick was 36-44 with the Browns, he wins 3 Super Bowls with the Patriots with guys like Brady, Bruschi, Wilfork etc.
Pete Carroll fired by the Jets and Patriots goes to USC wins a title with players like Bush, Palmer, Palamalu etc..Goes to Seattle and makes 200 rosters moves in one season to shape his team. Goes 11-5.
Nick Saban at Michigan St. From 1995 to 1997, Michigan State finished 6–5–1, 6–6, 7–5, 6-6, then 9-2(finally has his recruits). In comparison, MSU had finished 5–6, 6–6 and 5–6 in 1992–1994. Goes to LSU goes 8-4, 10-3, 8-5, 11-1(title), then 9-3 again. Goes to Dolphins and goes 15-17. Then Bama and 3 titles.

These are some of the best coaches of all time and still needed GREAT players to win Championships.

 

[gogeta4]

We've entered into a new realm:

Apparently, people in this thread are claiming that, out of our front 7, only Perryman would play at places like Maryland, Wake, Duke, Troy, Memphis and North Carolina Central.

I officially concede. You guys have convinced me. Thank you.

Well off the top of my head, Memphis DE Martin Ifedi, Marylands Marcus Whitfield, Wake's Nikita Whitlock and Duke's Jeremy Cash are better than any player starting on Defense. Difference makers and guys you can build the rest of your defense around. We dont have 1 defensive player to build a defense around.

We don't have a guy that can build a defense..gtfoh with them bums mentioned

 

[QuadCityCane]

Well off the top of my head, Memphis DE Martin Ifedi, Marylands Marcus Whitfield, Wake's Nikita Whitlock and Duke's Jeremy Cash are better than any player starting on Defense. Difference makers and guys you can build the rest of your defense around. We dont have 1 defensive player to build a defense around.

you have the 30 for 30 watchers stumped, congrats!

The funny thing is you actually believe that. Very entertaining.

who in the front 7 will be on an NFL roster 3 years from now.

Answer is a few maybe on the practice squad besides 52.

reality is a ****.

Apparently, now we need a squad of NFL players to perform up to the level of Navy and North Carolina Central. Thank you for proving that we have problems.

You're right. Our reality seems to be a ****.

By your argument maybe we should fire Coley too cause Troy scored more points on Duke then we did. Do they have better players than Duke, Morris, Coley, our line? Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?
Fact is we played bad and lost.

 

[QuadCityCane]

We've entered into a new realm:

Apparently, people in this thread are claiming that, out of our front 7, only Perryman would play at places like Maryland, Wake, Duke, Troy, Memphis and North Carolina Central.

I officially concede. You guys have convinced me. Thank you.

Well off the top of my head, Memphis DE Martin Ifedi, Marylands Marcus Whitfield, Wake's Nikita Whitlock and Duke's Jeremy Cash are better than any player starting on Defense. Difference makers and guys you can build the rest of your defense around. We dont have 1 defensive player to build a defense around.

We don't have a guy that can build a defense..gtfoh with them bums mentioned

So now NFL players are bums. I've now heard everything. Please step back off the ledge.

 

[QuadCityCane]

As just ONE example, if Nikita Whitlock were asked to play on our DLine, he'd get blocked into the goal post. If you can't acknowledge that, I don't know what to say.

Going with the extreme that everything you said is true and applies to what we're doing, what does selecting individual players from separate teams have to do with saying that out of our front 7, only Perryman would play at places like Maryland, Wake, Duke, Troy, Memphis and North Carolina Central? You understand you are saying Luther Robinson, Porter, Pierre and Chick would all not find any spot on any of those teams, correct?

They might play on those teams but they would be average there just like they are here. Fact is I listed better players from 4 teams you asked for. Those guys would make plays in any system because they are GOOD football players. Just like Wilkerson at Temple and Brooks at Virginia made plays in the same defense.

Any one of the players I listed would make our Defense much better. Ifedi can rush the passer, Whitfield can rush the passer and tackle, Nikita Whitlock can rush the passer, and Jeremy Cash has more tackles then all 4 safeties on our team added together.

Fact is, you talked about Front 7 and then listed a **** Safety (Cash). You have any clue how to stay on topic?

Bottom line: you listed players who couldn't even play here. It's hilarious that you listed Nikita Whitlock. Asked to play in our system, he'd get destroyed. Again, if you don't understand why, then that says everything. What if Luther Robinson or Pierre played in Nikita's system? Would they look better?

This should be interesting.

You have all this hostility lately. Are you just angry because I provided what you ask for. The Wake, Duke, Maryland and even Memphis has a better player than we do. But here we go again. Luther Robinson and Olsen Pierre were not good last year when we played mostly 4-3 and are not good this year in a 3-4. So why would I think they would be any better than average on any other team or scheme.

At least Nikita Whitlock has made plays. Bottom line is the NFL will be drafting all 4 of the guys I mentioned. While Robinson and Pierre might make practice squads.

Hostility? As I mentioned above, I think this is actually fun now. You guys are scrambling. You didn't give me anything I asked for. You mentioned a bunch of unrelated stuff. You claimed NO ONE from our front 7, other than Perryman, would play for any of those other teams. Then you went ahead and named me a handful of guys, one a Safety (LOL). Someone like Nikita Whitlock, a baby DL who couldn't do here anything close to what he's doing at Wake. You're proving my argument for me.

I agree Nikita Whitlock has made plays. He's a tiny DT playing in an upfield scheme that suits his strengths. Are you telling our recruits to leave us and go to those type of schools?

Are you just making stuff up now? Did I ever once say that. Would Easley make plays? Hes undersized. Yes he would, why? Because he is a good player. We have a bunch of average players.
And as far as Jeremy Cash, the safety, he has more tackles, tackles for loss, the same amount of FF, and 1 less INT then Highsmith/Jenkins/Bush/Rodgers have combined. That is why I mentioned him. 1 player on Duke has more production than all 4 of our safeties together. That is the definition of no talent.

 

[LuCane]

you have the 30 for 30 watchers stumped, congrats!

The funny thing is you actually believe that. Very entertaining.

who in the front 7 will be on an NFL roster 3 years from now.

Answer is a few maybe on the practice squad besides 52.

reality is a ****.

Apparently, now we need a squad of NFL players to perform up to the level of Navy and North Carolina Central. Thank you for proving that we have problems.

You're right. Our reality seems to be a ****.

By your argument maybe we should fire Coley too cause Troy scored more points on Duke then we did. Do they have better players than Duke, Morris, Coley, our line? Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?
Fact is we played bad and lost.

Every single team on Duke's schedule performed better defensively than we did. That's not an outlier. Do you know how ridiculous of an argument it is to find outliers like you're trying to do? To mention random guys from separate teams? To mention front 7 and then name a Safety?

You really can't just acknowledge that we may have some talent issues, but we also have some coaching issues?

 

[LuCane]

They might play on those teams but they would be average there just like they are here. Fact is I listed better players from 4 teams you asked for. Those guys would make plays in any system because they are GOOD football players. Just like Wilkerson at Temple and Brooks at Virginia made plays in the same defense.

Any one of the players I listed would make our Defense much better. Ifedi can rush the passer, Whitfield can rush the passer and tackle, Nikita Whitlock can rush the passer, and Jeremy Cash has more tackles then all 4 safeties on our team added together.

Fact is, you talked about Front 7 and then listed a **** Safety (Cash). You have any clue how to stay on topic?

Bottom line: you listed players who couldn't even play here. It's hilarious that you listed Nikita Whitlock. Asked to play in our system, he'd get destroyed. Again, if you don't understand why, then that says everything. What if Luther Robinson or Pierre played in Nikita's system? Would they look better?

This should be interesting.

You have all this hostility lately. Are you just angry because I provided what you ask for. The Wake, Duke, Maryland and even Memphis has a better player than we do. But here we go again. Luther Robinson and Olsen Pierre were not good last year when we played mostly 4-3 and are not good this year in a 3-4. So why would I think they would be any better than average on any other team or scheme.

At least Nikita Whitlock has made plays. Bottom line is the NFL will be drafting all 4 of the guys I mentioned. While Robinson and Pierre might make practice squads.

Hostility? As I mentioned above, I think this is actually fun now. You guys are scrambling. You didn't give me anything I asked for. You mentioned a bunch of unrelated stuff. You claimed NO ONE from our front 7, other than Perryman, would play for any of those other teams. Then you went ahead and named me a handful of guys, one a Safety (LOL). Someone like Nikita Whitlock, a baby DL who couldn't do here anything close to what he's doing at Wake. You're proving my argument for me.

I agree Nikita Whitlock has made plays. He's a tiny DT playing in an upfield scheme that suits his strengths. Are you telling our recruits to leave us and go to those type of schools?

Are you just making stuff up now? Did I ever once say that. Would Easley make plays? Hes undersized. Yes he would, why? Because he is a good player. We have a bunch of average players.
And as far as Jeremy Cash, the safety, he has more tackles, tackles for loss, the same amount of FF, and 1 less INT then Highsmith/Jenkins/Bush/Rodgers have combined. That is why I mentioned him. 1 player on Duke has more production than all 4 of our safeties together. That is the definition of no talent.

You are saying Nikita Whitlock is making plays and making himself an NFL prospect. Nikita Whitlock couldn't do what we ask our DL to do. Luther Robinson, specifically, might look a whole lot better playing at Wake. Are you saying he made a mistake coming here?

As for your tackles for loss stats from a Safety (the argument was about Front 7), thank you for showing how Duke's system apparently places their Safeties in a more aggressive position than our system does to most of its players - combined!

You're making strong arguments for players to go elsewhere. I don't think Coach Golden and crew would appreciate it.

 

[gogeta4]

We've entered into a new realm:

Apparently, people in this thread are claiming that, out of our front 7, only Perryman would play at places like Maryland, Wake, Duke, Troy, Memphis and North Carolina Central.

I officially concede. You guys have convinced me. Thank you.

Well off the top of my head, Memphis DE Martin Ifedi, Marylands Marcus Whitfield, Wake's Nikita Whitlock and Duke's Jeremy Cash are better than any player starting on Defense. Difference makers and guys you can build the rest of your defense around. We dont have 1 defensive player to build a defense around.

We don't have a guy that can build a defense..gtfoh with them bums mentioned

So now NFL players are bums. I've now heard everything. Please step back off the ledge.

Chase ford is an nfl player...he is a bum..those guys u named are bums...u don't need nfl talent to not give up 500 yds...nc central a div 2 team did a better job..I played in the same conf as them an we hung up numbers....its not the players...I held off three yrs..an realized my instincts were right sinve the first yr...add to it no frio gets owned by any legit oc its a no brainer, cutcliffe owns him, va techs oc honestly is slightly retarded and he saves his job against us.,..at some point dude needs to look in the mirror

 

[QuadCityCane]

The funny thing is you actually believe that. Very entertaining.

who in the front 7 will be on an NFL roster 3 years from now.

Answer is a few maybe on the practice squad besides 52.

reality is a ****.

Apparently, now we need a squad of NFL players to perform up to the level of Navy and North Carolina Central. Thank you for proving that we have problems.

You're right. Our reality seems to be a ****.

By your argument maybe we should fire Coley too cause Troy scored more points on Duke then we did. Do they have better players than Duke, Morris, Coley, our line? Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?
Fact is we played bad and lost.

Every single team on Duke's schedule performed better defensively than we did. That's not an outlier. Do you know how ridiculous of an argument it is to find outliers like you're trying to do? To mention random guys from separate teams? To mention front 7 and then name a Safety?

You really can't just acknowledge that we may have some talent issues, but we also have some coaching issues?

You obviously dont read my posts. We have coaching issues, I have said that 100 times. Talent on defense is a major problem and I dont care who you bring in we wont be better than average until we have better talent. Just like Jimmy, Bill B, Saban, and Carroll from my post above couldnt win without talent.

 

[The Franchise]

You guys are acting like dudes can't be biased in their opinions. Do you know if Spence and Duh are buddies? Do you know if they have a good relationship? Do you know if he might want to help him out by saying some good words for him publicly? Spence was a trooper here, and Corch Al and Duh loved him. Maybe it's a mutual admiration society.

I don't know why you guys need other guys to tell you why this defense sucks. Just watch it and make your own opinions. If you think there's any legit reason for UM to be getting thrashed by shtty offenses after 3 years of this new regime, then what will your excuse be next year? Seems like you're willing to give them forever to get the ship righted.

 

[WhatTheHell]

So the argument that coaching is not a problem here, is to point out how all the lowly ranked recruits go to other schools and make plays, while our highly rated kids come in and disappear.

Am I getting this right?

 

[DeadPoets]

So the argument that coaching is not a problem here, is to point out how all the lowly ranked recruits go to other schools and make plays, while our highly rated kids come in and disappear.

Am I getting this right?

lol yup

 

[Dan E. Dangerously]

So the argument that coaching is not a problem here, is to point out how all the lowly ranked recruits go to other schools and make plays, while our highly rated kids come in and disappear.

Am I getting this right?

lol yup

:ibisroflmao:

slkfsdlkfsdlkfslkfj

might as well lock the thread

 

[LuCane]

who in the front 7 will be on an NFL roster 3 years from now.

Answer is a few maybe on the practice squad besides 52.

reality is a ****.

Apparently, now we need a squad of NFL players to perform up to the level of Navy and North Carolina Central. Thank you for proving that we have problems.

You're right. Our reality seems to be a ****.

By your argument maybe we should fire Coley too cause Troy scored more points on Duke then we did. Do they have better players than Duke, Morris, Coley, our line? Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?
Fact is we played bad and lost.

Every single team on Duke's schedule performed better defensively than we did. That's not an outlier. Do you know how ridiculous of an argument it is to find outliers like you're trying to do? To mention random guys from separate teams? To mention front 7 and then name a Safety?

You really can't just acknowledge that we may have some talent issues, but we also have some coaching issues?

You obviously dont read my posts. We have coaching issues, I have said that 100 times. Talent on defense is a major problem and I dont care who you bring in we wont be better than average until we have better talent. Just like Jimmy, Bill B, Saban, and Carroll from my post above couldnt win without talent.

I read your posts pretty clearly. I read the post where you push the agenda that NONE of our front 7 players, except Perryman, would play at a bunch of ****** schools. I'm not asking for the talent to perform up to Championship level. I'd like for them to perform better than Navy and NC Central. I guess that's my crazy 30 for 30 mentality.

 

[gogeta4]

They might play on those teams but they would be average there just like they are here. Fact is I listed better players from 4 teams you asked for. Those guys would make plays in any system because they are GOOD football players. Just like Wilkerson at Temple and Brooks at Virginia made plays in the same defense.

Any one of the players I listed would make our Defense much better. Ifedi can rush the passer, Whitfield can rush the passer and tackle, Nikita Whitlock can rush the passer, and Jeremy Cash has more tackles then all 4 safeties on our team added together.

Fact is, you talked about Front 7 and then listed a **** Safety (Cash). You have any clue how to stay on topic?

Bottom line: you listed players who couldn't even play here. It's hilarious that you listed Nikita Whitlock. Asked to play in our system, he'd get destroyed. Again, if you don't understand why, then that says everything. What if Luther Robinson or Pierre played in Nikita's system? Would they look better?

This should be interesting.

You have all this hostility lately. Are you just angry because I provided what you ask for. The Wake, Duke, Maryland and even Memphis has a better player than we do. But here we go again. Luther Robinson and Olsen Pierre were not good last year when we played mostly 4-3 and are not good this year in a 3-4. So why would I think they would be any better than average on any other team or scheme.

At least Nikita Whitlock has made plays. Bottom line is the NFL will be drafting all 4 of the guys I mentioned. While Robinson and Pierre might make practice squads.

Hostility? As I mentioned above, I think this is actually fun now. You guys are scrambling. You didn't give me anything I asked for. You mentioned a bunch of unrelated stuff. You claimed NO ONE from our front 7, other than Perryman, would play for any of those other teams. Then you went ahead and named me a handful of guys, one a Safety (LOL). Someone like Nikita Whitlock, a baby DL who couldn't do here anything close to what he's doing at Wake. You're proving my argument for me.

I agree Nikita Whitlock has made plays. He's a tiny DT playing in an upfield scheme that suits his strengths. Are you telling our recruits to leave us and go to those type of schools?

Are you just making stuff up now? Did I ever once say that. Would Easley make plays? Hes undersized. Yes he would, why? Because he is a good player. We have a bunch of average players.
And as far as Jeremy Cash, the safety, he has more tackles, tackles for loss, the same amount of FF, and 1 less INT then Highsmith/Jenkins/Bush/Rodgers have combined. That is why I mentioned him. 1 player on Duke has more production than all 4 of our safeties together. That is the definition of no talent.

That's definition of a slap **** dc...how many times have our safeties this yr been in position to even have a tfl?

Half of the time were not even set on d, and our safeties play 25 yds off the ball.

Highsmith would be productive at duke...I'm being honest their talent sucks

 

[sebastian91]

We were a 4-3 in 2011 and is now a 3-4 so spence and futch didn't play in this D.

They never said they did play in this D. And Winston, Blades, and Starks didn't either. Chizik sure as **** didn't. All of these guys are just giving opinions, but at least Spence and Futch have played for the man.

If that were the view being espoused on this thread, I'd say that's fair and reasonable. Not amazingly helpful because the topic is scheme, but fair and reasonable.

I responded to a specific post. The rest of you clowns can just keep on with your back and forth about scheme or talent.