Ruiz stadium update

[rsa coral gables]

I mentioned how Gillette Stadium had an entertainment complex adjacent that was brand new and quite nice. HRS is glaringly lacking that or anything comparable nearby. But even with the benefit of adding that and assuming all other amenities stay equal, the university needs to see additional revenue like naming rights or other events to make this worthwhile.

It would be nice to be able to go and eat at a restaurant or hang out at a bar either before or after a game until traffic improves.

i know this is project is in the very early stages, but i asked this before, how is it that UM will benefit from the tropical park development since it will be Ruiz's deal, not UM's? Is UM putting in equity or is it going to be a tenant just like at HRS?

 

[Cryptical Envelopment]

What Ruiz says and what actually happens are two different things. I do believe if anybody can get it done he can. I’m just trying to figure out the logistics of getting 65,000 into Tripica Park including spaces that’s all.

Let's wait and see, ya? They have HKS (arguably best firm in the world) designing this thing. They account for traffic, parking, flow, egress, tailgating, and many other variables in their designs. You tell them what you need, and its their job to rise to the challenge. I too was interested in how they were going to solve the parking issues and brought it up many times. Now we wait and see, and don't make up results that suit a negative agenda.

I think people need to get away from using HRS as a benchmark for everything. We have a blank canvas. This will be more like a mix of the OB and Baylor's new stadium from what I understand. Which is MUCH more collegiate than HRS. HRS has a lot going for it, but the upper deck is in Siberia, WAY far from the field, maybe worse than anywhere else in the country.

And also they have 26,000 parking spots (well, they used to) because they built that thing in "unincorporated dade county" in the middle of nowhere where EVERYONE has to drive in. It's like MetLife or Gilette Stadiums. Gross. You don't need that many spots for an urban stadium, pro or college. Public transportation, ride share, walking, biking, shuttles, etc. Look at places like Heinz Field or where the SF Giants play, etc. Look at the game day experience in major college towns. No one has 20,000 spots... most don't have 5k.

 

[canecrazy23]

Let's wait and see, ya? They have HKS (arguably best firm in the world) designing this thing. They account for traffic, parking, flow, egress, tailgating, and many other variables in their designs. You tell them what you need, and its their job to rise to the challenge. I too was interested in how they were going to solve the parking issues and brought it up many times. Now we wait and see, and don't make up results that suit a negative agenda.

I think people need to get away from using HRS as a benchmark for everything. We have a blank canvas. This will be more like a mix of the OB and Baylor's new stadium from what I understand. Which is MUCH more collegiate than HRS. HRS has a lot going for it, but the upper deck is in Siberia, WAY far from the field, maybe worse than anywhere else in the country.

And also they have 26,000 parking spots (well, they used to) because they built that thing in "unincorporated dade county" in the middle of nowhere where EVERYONE has to drive in. It's like MetLife or Gilette Stadiums. Gross. You don't need that many spots for an urban stadium, pro or college. Public transportation, ride share, walking, biking, shuttles, etc. Look at places like Heinz Field or where the SF Giants play, etc. Look at the game day experience in major college towns. No one has 20,000 spots... most don't have 5k.

Yes I work with HKS and I’m going to see what they know. They’ll probably tell me it’s tight lipped but I’ll ask anyway.

It’s funny because everybody I know that sits in the upper deck love their seats but I hear what you’re saying.

 

[JD08]

i know this is project is in the very early stages, but i asked this before, how is it that UM will benefit from the tropical park development since it will be Ruiz's deal, not UM's? Is UM putting in equity or is it going to be a tenant just like at HRS?

That's why I added my disclaimer. Everybody wants to dismiss issues with moving the stadium further south, but if it doesn't benefit the university and has the potential to impact ticket sales, what exactly is the reason for doing it?

 

[Cryptical Envelopment]

Yes I work with HKS and I’m going to see what they know. They’ll probably tell me it’s tight lipped but I’ll ask anyway.

It’s funny because everybody I know that sits in the upper deck love their seats but I hear what you’re saying.

Report back!

 

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

I would personally support wherever the Miami Hurricanes play. I will be there. It’s as simple as that.

Having said that, I think there are major obstacles to getting this done, which are simplistically being dismissed when they are indeed major factors.

Something that I have not seen discussed is that I believe a county-wide referendum where local residents would have to give approval is something that’s required. So local residents would have to give it its blessing. This is no small task.

Overall, one has to manage expectations. It would be terrible if somehow this project doesn’t happen within the next 10 to 15 years, and a lot of negative comments are accepted and a local narrative regarding playing at HRS.

Anybody that goes to the games today, knows it’s an excellent experience, in my opinion one of the best in college football given that we live in a metropolitan area.

I would certainly be front and center throwing my money into it if we move, of course I would expect at the very minimum an equivalent experience to what we have now.

I would also expect people that are pro the University of Miami having its own stadium, as am I, will accept it, if it doesn’t happen, and learn to love where we play now. The vast majority of people that actually go to games already love it.

 

[canecrazy23]

Report back!

If I do hear something I will most likely DM you for fear of putting it on here.

 

[Go Canes!!]

I would personally support wherever the Miami Hurricanes play. I will be there. It’s as simple as that.

Having said that, I think there are major obstacles to getting this done, which are simplistically being dismissed when they are indeed major factors.

Something that I have not seen discussed is that I believe a county-wide referendum where local residents would have to give approval is something that’s required. So local residents would have to give it its blessing. This is no small task.

Overall, one has to manage expectations. It would be terrible if somehow this project doesn’t happen within the next 10 to 15 years, and a lot of negative comments are accepted and a local narrative regarding playing at HRS.

Anybody that goes to the games today, knows it’s an excellent experience, in my opinion one of the best in college football given that we live in a metropolitan area.

I would certainly be front and center throwing my money into it if we move, of course I would expect at the very minimum an equivalent experience to what we have now.

I would also expect people that are pro the University of Miami having its own stadium, as am I, will accept it, if it doesn’t happen, and learn to love where we play now. The vast majority of people that actually go to games already love it.

Absolutely.

I live in Glenvar Heights off sunset. The residents there have fought tooth and nail against any development of those acres east of the Palmetto .

They won’t make it easy.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

i know this is project is in the very early stages, but i asked this before, how is it that UM will benefit from the tropical park development since it will be Ruiz's deal, not UM's? Is UM putting in equity or is it going to be a tenant just like at HRS?

If you let UM retain nearly all of the ticket/parking/food/bev/merch revenue, while keeping the basic costs of the stadium on the books of the park (water the grass, custodial clean up, painting the building, etc.) that would put more money in UM's pocket (maybe UM foots the bill for the snack bar workers and the parking attendants).

Ruiz benefits from the "for-profit" development.

I just think it's important to draw a bright line of distinction between "the stadium" and all of the other economic development PLANNED for the area.

That is not an attempt to convince you, just an illumination of the different stuff that is involved.

I can give you another example of a project I worked on. If you drive up to Daytona, you will see that Daytona International Speedway is on one side of US 92, and MOST of the economic development is on the other side of the road (except for Cracker Barrel, Olive Garden, etc.).

There are two very large pedestrian bridges across US 92.

The "Speedway" side of the road (MOST of the land is owned by the City of Daytona Beach and leased to Speedway/NASCAR) generates revenue predominantly during racing events. The City has a couple of events that it runs "on its property", a major one is in November (Turkey Trot) and when the city had control of the facility, we were not allowed our "normal" access to certain areas (our employee gym was in the infield of the track, right next to the Infield Care Center).

So from an "economic activity" standpoint, the "Daytona International" racetrack (land owned by Daytona) is a lot like how most of Tropical would be run, there is a large sports facility in the middle, but it mostly generates revenue for the primary tenant just a couple of times per year.

On the OTHER side of the road, though, is where the whole retail/dining/entertainment district is. Bass Pro Shops, a bunch of restaurants, a movie theater, a hotel, and some housing. This property is ACTUALLY owned by Speedway/NASCAR, it was purchased from GE several decades ago. This development generates revenue year round. In all honesty, DURING RACE EVENTS, the lines are blurred. A lot of the PRIVATE parking (retail/dining/entertainment) is used for the race events. People go back and forth between both areas, spending money in both places.

I FULLY ADMIT, it is easier to understand the revenue distinction when there is an 8-lane road running down the middle of the development.

If you want to discuss it in greater detail, DM me. It's some fascinating stuff, when you realize how much money is dropped in such a short span of time. And, yes, for NON-NASCAR businesses (Volusia Square Mall, Hooters, all the other restaurants across the street), it is not even possible to argue that the big events do not, essentially, "shut them down" on the parking side of things. Almost nobody who LIVES THERE goes to any of those restaurants DURING RACE EVENTS. It's just impossible.

But everyone figures out how to make it work. And the big race events can involve 150,000 spectators, so I understand the parking and logistical issues too.

And we ran 12 NASCAR racetracks with about 20 Cup weekend events.

It's do-able. Tricky and challenging, but do-able.

 

[Rellyrell]

Yeah I don't care about the program even though I've had season tickets and have donated for 40 years.

Hard Rock is perfect for us and I've seen what that stadium can do. When packed it's one of if not the loudest stadiums in CFB.

Yes our own stadium would benefit us tremendously but not at the expense of what we have now.

My dream would be for the Marlins to move and we retrofit the Marlins Stadium.

Question, & I promise u I’m not being an ***:

No offense, & I promise u I mean no offense, but ur comment was a bit oxymoronic: you said: ‘yes our own stadium would benefit us…then put out the next line ‘but not at the expense of what we have now.’

OK, here’s my question - 2 part: How has HRS benefited Miami & what is the expense we’re losing? (Pls refrain from using a game from 5 yrs ago in ur answer, Por favor).

 

[rok]

It’s funny because everybody I know that sits in the upper deck love their seats but I hear what you’re saying.

This is just my opinion but the upper deck at HRS usually offers a better vantage point even though you're technically further away. The lower bowl slopes pretty gradually and sits kind of low. Club level offers the best vantage point. Lower bowl endzone (and upper deck endzone) is also very nice. Here let me illustrate

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Ain't even fvckin' around, I can't sit upper deck anymore. I don't know if I have developed some sort of middle-aged vertigo, but I just can't handle the sightlines and the feeling of disconnection in the upper decks (football or basketball). I had upper deck for the Sweet 16 at the United Center, and I worked it out with some friends to get into the lower bowl.

Can't do upper deck. Won't do upper deck.

 

[svenben]

This is why you are fighting a losing battle.

Zero reading comprehension. Zero knowledge of science.

Picture 1 - the seating for the upper deck SIDELINES and the ENDZONES are in the exact same spot as they ever were. UNTOUCHED. Taking out the seats in the corners DOES NOT MOVE the sidelines or the end zones. IT DOESN'T. You are a fabricator of bullsh!te.

Picture 2 - I'll give you 5 seconds to explain what they are doing on the left side of the picture and the right side of the picture. You can't. You won't. That's where my seats are, and you're clueless.

You truly do not understand what was done. Nobody said there hasn't been a renovation, but the renovation has not changed WHERE THE SEATS ARE LOCATED, except for some of the seats in the lower deck sideline areas. New seatbacks, sure. A couple more rows up front along the sidelines. Sure. Relocation of every architectural aspect of the stadium? Uh, no.

lol... you think in my mind existing seats were somehow pushed fwd? lol The sidelines were rebuilt with a lower rake allowing the rows to extend further toward the sidelines.. you need find another fight

 

[TheOriginalCane]

lol... you think in my mind existing seats were somehow pushed fwd? lol The sidelines were rebuilt with a lower rake allowing the rows to extend further toward the sidelines.. you need find another fight

Look, you're the one talking about how all the seats are closer. AND THEY ARE NOT.

I'm not sure why you can't grasp simple concepts.

REMOVAL of Bob Uecker seats do not change the location of non-removed seats. The only thing that happens is that your cheapest/worst seats disappear. The sightlines of the remaining seats don't change. The location of the center of the field doesn't change.

ADDING a couple of rows of seats AT THE FRONT doesn't change anything either. It's as if you resurrected Dr. Jerry Buss from the grave to come here to tell us how Laker courtside seats improved the experience for everyone sitting behind them. IT'S INSANE. And possibly illegal, to reanimate a corpse.

As I mentioned, the sidelines between the 30s were rebuilt, but NOT for the nutty reasons that you put forth (some magical alchemy that changed the laws of nature) but because ONE side of the field now has a CLUB AREA underneath of it (that's where my seats are) and the OTHER side of the field (home side) now has the 72 Club and The Nines, so the entire nature of the seating in those areas was fundamentally changed.

Again, we can get into high-level discussions of construction and whatnot, but let's simplify it. Let's say that I was sitting in Row M before the renovation. Row M has not changed at all. I am still sitting in the same spot. I am still the exact same distance from the logo at the 50 yard line. The addition of Rows AA through EE in front of me has done NOTHING to change my seat. Can I now get a player autograph a bit easier? Sure. The front row is now 5 rows closer to the players (though I have to walk a bit farther to get the autograph now).

Oh, and for the record, none of this is speculative. It's what actually happened. My EXISTING seats, on top of the (now) Hyundai Club below Sections 117, 118, and 119, are exactly where they always were. I just have MORE PEOPLE in front of me, down low. But my sightline and my distance from midfield are THE SAME, pre-renovation and post-renovation.

I'm not sure why you don't understand that. And I'm not sure why you are bragging about "distance-per-fan" by yapping about the removal of seats in the upper deck corners, while you refuse to acknowledge the similar reduction of lower bowl seating capacity that ALSO happened along the sidelines.

Again, to put it a different way....if Hard Rock decides to start selling seats IN FRONT OF ME, it doesn't improve my experience. I can't take solace in some bizarre mathetmatical computation about "average distance per seat". Yes, the people IN FRONT OF ME got better seating, but myself AND EVERYONE BEHIND ME have not experienced any sort of change or improvement.

This should be really simple stuff. But thank you for the photographs. They were...unhelpful and really didn't make the point you thought you were making.

 

[rsa coral gables]

If you let UM retain nearly all of the ticket/parking/food/bev/merch revenue, while keeping the basic costs of the stadium on the books of the park (water the grass, custodial clean up, painting the building, etc.) that would put more money in UM's pocket (maybe UM foots the bill for the snack bar workers and the parking attendants).

Ruiz benefits from the "for-profit" development.

I just think it's important to draw a bright line of distinction between "the stadium" and all of the other economic development PLANNED for the area.

That is not an attempt to convince you, just an illumination of the different stuff that is involved.

I can give you another example of a project I worked on. If you drive up to Daytona, you will see that Daytona International Speedway is on one side of US 92, and MOST of the economic development is on the other side of the road (except for Cracker Barrel, Olive Garden, etc.).

There are two very large pedestrian bridges across US 92.

The "Speedway" side of the road (MOST of the land is owned by the City of Daytona Beach and leased to Speedway/NASCAR) generates revenue predominantly during racing events. The City has a couple of events that it runs "on its property", a major one is in November (Turkey Trot) and when the city had control of the facility, we were not allowed our "normal" access to certain areas (our employee gym was in the infield of the track, right next to the Infield Care Center).

So from an "economic activity" standpoint, the "Daytona International" racetrack (land owned by Daytona) is a lot like how most of Tropical would be run, there is a large sports facility in the middle, but it mostly generates revenue for the primary tenant just a couple of times per year.

On the OTHER side of the road, though, is where the whole retail/dining/entertainment district is. Bass Pro Shops, a bunch of restaurants, a movie theater, a hotel, and some housing. This property is ACTUALLY owned by Speedway/NASCAR, it was purchased from GE several decades ago. This development generates revenue year round. In all honesty, DURING RACE EVENTS, the lines are blurred. A lot of the PRIVATE parking (retail/dining/entertainment) is used for the race events. People go back and forth between both areas, spending money in both places.

I FULLY ADMIT, it is easier to understand the revenue distinction when there is an 8-lane road running down the middle of the development.

If you want to discuss it in greater detail, DM me. It's some fascinating stuff, when you realize how much money is dropped in such a short span of time. And, yes, for NON-NASCAR businesses (Volusia Square Mall, Hooters, all the other restaurants across the street), it is not even possible to argue that the big events do not, essentially, "shut them down" on the parking side of things. Almost nobody who LIVES THERE goes to any of those restaurants DURING RACE EVENTS. It's just impossible.

But everyone figures out how to make it work. And the big race events can involve 150,000 spectators, so I understand the parking and logistical issues too.

And we ran 12 NASCAR racetracks with about 20 Cup weekend events.

It's do-able. Tricky and challenging, but do-able.

so ruiz is going to build the stadium (let's say just the stadium part is $250mm) and not take all of the money from it?

 

[Ajcane8]

That's why I added my disclaimer. Everybody wants to dismiss issues with moving the stadium further south, but if it doesn't benefit the university and has the potential to impact ticket sales, what exactly is the reason for doing it?

Hypothetically - Stephen Ross dies, Hugh Hathnocock and the Spanx Lady pool all their nickels, buy the Dolphins, and the first thing they say is "Hey, Canes, go find a new rented stadium to play in." They rip up the lease, pay whatever they have to to satisfy the breach clauses, and dare us to play football. What then?

 

[TheOriginalCane]

so ruiz is going to build the stadium (let's say just the stadium part is $250mm) and not take all of the money from it?

That is my understanding. Do I have a signed contract as proof? No sir, I do not. But that is my understanding, that gameday revenues would be able to be retained by UM (after payment of gameday-related labor expenses).

Other revenues (concerts, tractor pulls, Disney on Ice, etc.) - I imagine that he'd retain most of those revenues, unless UM manages it.

Which, come to think of it, would be a nice internship opportunity for the UM School of Business...just sayin'...as a UM B-School grad, I'm always happy to see UM alums giving UM students their first jobs...

 

[rsa coral gables]

Hypothetically - Stephen Ross dies, Hugh Hathnocock and the Spanx Lady pool all their nickels, buy the Dolphins, and the first thing they say is "Hey, Canes, go find a new rented stadium to play in." They rip up the lease, pay whatever they have to to satisfy the breach clauses, and dare us to play football. What then?

the lease agreement, if properly papered, survives the death of ross and/or the sale of the dolphins. the owner of the dolphins is not the hurricanes' landlord

 

[rsa coral gables]

That is my understanding. Do I have a signed contract as proof? No sir, I do not. But that is my understanding, that gameday revenues would be able to be retained by UM (after payment of gameday-related labor expenses).

Other revenues (concerts, tractor pulls, Disney on Ice, etc.) - I imagine that he'd retain most of those revenues, unless UM manages it.

Which, come to think of it, would be a nice internship opportunity for the UM School of Business...just sayin'...as a UM B-School grad, I'm always happy to see UM alums giving UM students their first jobs...

assuming you are correct, which sounds reasonable, they are likely in the same position as in HRS. this deal is no better for them other than its closer to school.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Hypothetically - Stephen Ross dies, Hugh Hathnocock and the Spanx Lady pool all their nickels, buy the Dolphins, and the first thing they say is "Hey, Canes, go find a new rented stadium to play in." They rip up the lease, pay whatever they have to to satisfy the breach clauses, and dare us to play football. What then?

****, let's say Stephen Ross (Michigan grad) is ****ed that Miami pied pipers the best teams from the ACC to the SEC, and screws over the Big 10. He could exact vengeance.

It's really no different from the "Wrath of an Angry Knight" storylines that we were hearing about how Phil Knight was going to exact corporate revenge on Miami and Mario after Mario left Oregon for Miami.

Is it highly probable? I don't think so. But some people believe these things might happen, so let's prepare ourselves for future uncertainty.