Ruiz stadium update

[TheOriginalCane]

assuming you are correct, which sounds reasonable, they are likely in the same position as in HRS. this deal is no better for them other than its closer to school.

I do not believe that is the case. I don't want to bore everyone else to tears, but there are some elements of the cost structure and cost-sharing that would be different. As just ONE example, you could do a lot more with merch than you are allowed to do as a tenant at Hard Rock. I can get into it with you later, but there are potential integration channels you could do with Fanatics if you had a semi-permanent location and a better chance to move inventory.

Having said that, I have never made the argument for "Tropical over Hard Rock" on purely monetary terms. I have also stressed independence and destiny/control, as well as a need to rebuild the student loyalty/future alum donations pipeline that has been substantially damaged over the past 20 years.

 

[Rellyrell]

assuming you are correct, which sounds reasonable, they are likely in the same position as in HRS. this deal is no better for them other than its closer to school.

Hold on; how is this no better than HRS? If, again “if” Miami is placed as a managing partner, ala USC w/ The L.A Coliseum, this is 100x the situation Miami is currently w/ HRS. As it stands, Ross is making all the $$ from every event that’s being peddled.

 

[Ajcane8]

the lease agreement, if properly papered, survives the death of ross and/or the sale of the dolphins. the owner of the dolphins is not the hurricanes' landlord

Who is?

Let's say that person decides to tear up the lease. Then what?

****, let's say Stephen Ross (Michigan grad) is ****ed that Miami pied pipers the best teams from the ACC to the SEC, and screws over the Big 10. He could exact vengeance.

It's really no different from the "Wrath of an Angry Knight" storylines that we were hearing about how Phil Knight was going to exact corporate revenge on Miami and Mario after Mario left Oregon for Miami.

Is it highly probable? I don't think so. But some people believe these things might happen, so let's prepare ourselves for future uncertainty.

Exactly. It's not necessarily probable that the next owner of Dolphin Stadium has a vendetta against our University, but it's certainly possible.

If Ruiz has the means (and the gall) to push this hare-brained scheme forward - by all means. I'm not sure why any Miami fan, let alone alumnus, would have any issue with us securing our (football playing) future.

Just get me outta those gawddamned teal seats, and I'll be happy.

 

[rsa coral gables]

Hold on; how is this no better than HRS? If, again “if” Miami is placed as a managing partner, ala USC w/ The L.A Coliseum, this is 100x the situation Miami is currently w/ HRS. As it stands, Ross is making all the $$ from every event that’s being peddled.

i dont know the details of the USC and coliseum deal, but wouldn't UM have to be an equity partner in the deal to be placed as the managing partner? i don't see how Ruiz is going to fund the stadium and give up control and the revenue streams. plus, UM is going to use the stadium 6-7 times a year. none of this seems to make sense. ruiz is not going to allow UM to operate the stadium beyond the 6-7 games nor would UM want that role.

 

[Calinative]

Let's wait and see, ya? They have HKS (arguably best firm in the world) designing this thing. They account for traffic, parking, flow, egress, tailgating, and many other variables in their designs. You tell them what you need, and its their job to rise to the challenge. I too was interested in how they were going to solve the parking issues and brought it up many times. Now we wait and see, and don't make up results that suit a negative agenda.

I think people need to get away from using HRS as a benchmark for everything. We have a blank canvas. This will be more like a mix of the OB and Baylor's new stadium from what I understand. Which is MUCH more collegiate than HRS. HRS has a lot going for it, but the upper deck is in Siberia, WAY far from the field, maybe worse than anywhere else in the country.

And also they have 26,000 parking spots (well, they used to) because they built that thing in "unincorporated dade county" in the middle of nowhere where EVERYONE has to drive in. It's like MetLife or Gilette Stadiums. Gross. You don't need that many spots for an urban stadium, pro or college. Public transportation, ride share, walking, biking, shuttles, etc. Look at places like Heinz Field or where the SF Giants play, etc. Look at the game day experience in major college towns. No one has 20,000 spots... most don't have 5k.

Who currently makes money off parking at HRS on gamedays? Us or Ross? Charging $20 for parking would be almost an additional $2M/yr in revenue. Considering we currently pay $4M/yr to use Hard Rock in the first place that’s not nothing

 

[Canedude08]

Who is?

Let's say that person decides to tear up the lease. Then what?


Exactly. It's not necessarily probable that the next owner of Dolphin Stadium has a vendetta against our University, but it's certainly possible.

If Ruiz has the means (and the gall) to push this hare-brained scheme forward - by all means. I'm not sure why any Miami fan, let alone alumnus, would have any issue with us securing our (football playing) future.

Just get me outta those gawddamned teal seats, and I'll be happy.

What's stopping Ruiz from pulling some stunt if he ends up being the new landlord? Let's say in 15 years, Miami is looking for a new President, and Ruiz's preferred candidate doesn't get the job. He could try the same nonsense. First rule of Business, people are petty and childish, especially really wealthy people.

Unless the University of Miami OWNS THE STADIUM OUTRIGHT, this is a distinct possibility,no matter who we work with. Would I love it if my alma mater ended up with a world class facility closer to campus? **** yes, but if we are talking about locking down our future, we need to OWN. Trading landlords isn't the flex many believe it to be. Maybe UMiami and Ruiz works out a deal in which UMiami gets the spot after a certain timespan(Enough for Ruiz to get an ROI) , but who knows. Details are few and far between.

 

[rsa coral gables]

Who is?

Let's say that person decides to tear up the lease. Then what?


Exactly. It's not necessarily probable that the next owner of Dolphin Stadium has a vendetta against our University, but it's certainly possible.

If Ruiz has the means (and the gall) to push this hare-brained scheme forward - by all means. I'm not sure why any Miami fan, let alone alumnus, would have any issue with us securing our (football playing) future.

Just get me outta those gawddamned teal seats, and I'll be happy.

the lease can be torn up, but it will remain in full force and effect. agreements don't general evaporate when the original party to the deal sells the underlying asset or the principal of the original party dies. there are clear rules for survivability, succession and assignment.

it is easy to remove the teal seats, simply put green and orange covers on them for every game. EZPZ.

 

[rsa coral gables]

What's stopping Ruiz from pulling some stunt if he ends up being the new landlord? Let's say in 15 years, Miami is looking for a new President, and Ruiz's preferred candidate doesn't get the job. He could try the same nonsense. First rule of Business, people are petty and childish, especially really wealthy people.

Unless the University of Miami OWNS THE STADIUM OUTRIGHT, this is a distinct possibility,no matter who we work with. Would I love it if my alma mater ended up with a world class facility closer to campus? **** yes, but if we are talking about locking down our future, we need to OWN. Trading landlords isn't the flex many believe it to be. Maybe UMiami and Ruiz works out a deal in which UMiami gets the spot after a certain timespan(Enough for Ruiz to get an ROI) , but who knows. Details are few and far between.

UM will NEVER own the stadium. NEVER.

 

[rsa coral gables]

Who currently makes money off parking at HRS on gamedays? Us or Ross? Charging $20 for parking would be almost an additional $2M/yr in revenue. Considering we currently pay $4M/yr to use Hard Rock in the first place that’s not nothing

good questions. a lot of speculation, few real answers.

 

[Ajcane8]

the lease can be torn up, but it will remain in full force and effect. agreements don't general evaporate when the original party to the deal sells the underlying asset or the principal of the original party dies. there are clear rules for survivability, succession and assignment.

it is easy to remove the teal seats, simply put green and orange covers on them for every game. EZPZ.

Yeah. And, contracts aren't written in blood. I haven't seen the lease agreement, so I'm not sure what it says re: survivability or assignment, but there are always ways out of an "agreement." Hence, an important part of my original hypothetical - pay whatever they have to for the breach (that'd be a nice windfall, but we'd still have nowhere to play).

 

[NJshoreCane]

For those questioning parking, etc., I posted this about the "Baylor Model" a few months back.
The site at the time was CGHS, but still applies to the latest proposal at Tropical Park:

I'll find my way to the Stadium no matter where it is.
If it can happen in the Gables, nice.

I know most of you guys don't care about the working numbers.
As one poster put it...."let the architects figure it out, that's what they get paid for".

Our best shot is to convince CG Board is similar to the approach Baylor took.

At Baylor, 120 acres are devoted to the stadium and other athletics venues across the Brazos River from campus, with the 45,000-seat football stadium consuming 13 acres of the site. As a general rule of thumb, between three and four people are expected to occupy every car coming to a spectator sports venue. “It would be great if you could say, ‘Okay, if we divide 45,000 seats by 3.5 for vehicle occupancy, we’re at about 13,000,’ ” Elmer says. “That said, you may not have the site area to accommodate 13,000 parking spaces, so you have to work with the ownership, and work with the municipalities in which the stadium, ballpark or arena is sited to determine how you’re going to get patrons to the venue.”

...Baylor’s stadium will be fed by a new $10 million pedestrian bridge. “Whether it be foot traffic or bicycle or moped, we anticipate that bridge will deliver about 5,600 people from campus on a game day,” says Elmer, adding that shuttle ridership will bring the number of patrons arriving by vehicle down further to approximately 37,000

Compensating for Baylor’s anticipated onsite parking shortfall will be lots around campus and in downtown Waco, Texas. “You now have to figure out how people who park downtown are going to get to the stadium,” Elmer says. “So we’ve developed a river walk network that runs adjacent to the river and connects to downtown. People can park downtown and walk 15 to 20 minutes along the river, which is a pretty pleasant pedestrian experience. Or they can park on campus and they can walk across the new pedestrian bridge that was part of the project.”

IMO, if this thing even works, the monorail that runs along South Dixie will play a big part in this.

https://www.athleticbusiness.com/facilities/stadium-arena/article/15145172/designing-for-parking-fan-traffic-at-spectator-v

 

[rsa coral gables]

For those questioning parking, etc., I posted this about the "Baylor Model" a few months back.
The site at the time was CGHS, but still applies:

I'll find my way to the Stadium no matter where it is.
If it can happen in the Gables, nice.

I know most of you guys don't care about the working numbers.
As one poster put it...."let the architects figure it out, that's what they get paid for".

Our best shot is to convince CG Board is similar to the approach Baylor took.

At Baylor, 120 acres are devoted to the stadium and other athletics venues across the Brazos River from campus, with the 45,000-seat football stadium consuming 13 acres of the site. As a general rule of thumb, between three and four people are expected to occupy every car coming to a spectator sports venue. “It would be great if you could say, ‘Okay, if we divide 45,000 seats by 3.5 for vehicle occupancy, we’re at about 13,000,’ ” Elmer says. “That said, you may not have the site area to accommodate 13,000 parking spaces, so you have to work with the ownership, and work with the municipalities in which the stadium, ballpark or arena is sited to determine how you’re going to get patrons to the venue.”

...Baylor’s stadium will be fed by a new $10 million pedestrian bridge. “Whether it be foot traffic or bicycle or moped, we anticipate that bridge will deliver about 5,600 people from campus on a game day,” says Elmer, adding that shuttle ridership will bring the number of patrons arriving by vehicle down further to approximately 37,000

Compensating for Baylor’s anticipated onsite parking shortfall will be lots around campus and in downtown Waco, Texas. “You now have to figure out how people who park downtown are going to get to the stadium,” Elmer says. “So we’ve developed a river walk network that runs adjacent to the river and connects to downtown. People can park downtown and walk 15 to 20 minutes along the river, which is a pretty pleasant pedestrian experience. Or they can park on campus and they can walk across the new pedestrian bridge that was part of the project.”

IMO, if this thing even works, the monorail that runs along South Dixie will play a big part in this.

https://www.athleticbusiness.com/facilities/stadium-arena/article/15145172/designing-for-parking-fan-traffic-at-spectator-venues

IT WILL NEVER BE BUILT IN CORAL GABLES. NEVER. NOT SURE HOW MUCH CLEAR THAT CAN BE SAID.

NEVER

 

[NJshoreCane]

IT WILL NEVER BE BUILT IN CORAL GABLES. NEVER. NOT SURE HOW MUCH CLEAR THAT CAN BE SAID.

NEVER

I know that.


I'll edit my post.
The point was the "Baylor Model" at Tropical park, and how the numbers can work.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

i dont know the details of the USC and coliseum deal, but wouldn't UM have to be an equity partner in the deal to be placed as the managing partner? i don't see how Ruiz is going to fund the stadium and give up control and the revenue streams. plus, UM is going to use the stadium 6-7 times a year. none of this seems to make sense. ruiz is not going to allow UM to operate the stadium beyond the 6-7 games nor would UM want that role.

I also do not know all the details, and perhaps you see a detail that I am currently missing, but you don't have to BE a "Partner" (upper case) in the partnership agrreement to be the managing partner (lower case).

For instance, John Ruiz could go out and hire a third-party management company to manage the facility, and just pay a fee or a percentage.

I respect the fact that a lot of this is complex and beyond many of us, at least in our day-to-day knowledge of these agreements and deals. I don't want to overshare, but I have a lot of knowledge of these kinds of agreements from reading documents at Speedway/NASCAR and trying to figure out whose revenue was whose and what was taxable and whatnot. Royalties. Fee-splits. Sanction agreements. Commissions. Intercompany revenue. You name it, I've seen it, and you do everything you can to define it in advance.

I would also point out that Speedway/NASCAR does not own either of the parcels of land (in Florida) with speedways. City of Daytona Beach owns the land under Daytona International, and Homestead owns the land under Homestead Motor Speedway. And yet...MASSIVE multi-billion dollar facilties were constructed. If you set up a good working partnership (and not a Partnership with a capital P), it can work, but it sure isn't easy.

 

[rsa coral gables]

I also do not know all the details, and perhaps you see a detail that I am currently missing, but you don't have to BE a "Partner" (upper case) in the partnership agrreement to be the managing partner (lower case).

For instance, John Ruiz could go out and hire a third-party management company to manage the facility, and just pay a fee or a percentage.

I respect the fact that a lot of this is complex and beyond many of us, at least in our day-to-day knowledge of these agreements and deals. I don't want to overshare, but I have a lot of knowledge of these kinds of agreements from reading documents at Speedway/NASCAR and trying to figure out whose revenue was whose and what was taxable and whatnot. Royalties. Fee-splits. Sanction agreements. Commissions. Intercompany revenue. You name it, I've seen it, and you do everything you can to define it in advance.

I would also point out that Speedway/NASCAR does not own either of the parcels of land (in Florida) with speedways. City of Daytona Beach owns the land under Daytona International, and Homestead owns the land under Homestead Motor Speedway. And yet...MASSIVE multi-billion dollar facilties were constructed. If you set up a good working partnership (and not a Partnership with a capital P), it can work, but it sure isn't easy.

you are right, ruiz could hire a third party manager that is in the business of managing venues/sites. however, UM is not in that business, as you know, so i don't see UM taking on that or a similar role. and it is likely out of its legal purpose to do so. again, unless UM puts money into the deal, which i think is unlikely, i cannot see how UM's position at tropical is any better than at HRS.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

IMO, if this thing even works, the monorail that runs along South Dixie will play a big part in this.

https://www.athleticbusiness.com/facilities/stadium-arena/article/15145172/designing-for-parking-fan-traffic-at-spectator-v

I'll do you one better.

Connect the Palmetto Metro station to the Dadeland South Metro Station by running a line down the middle of the Palmetto.

Then run an east-west line down the middle of the Dolphin, connecting Culmer Metro Station to Dolphin Station Park & Ride.

And while we're at it, run a north line up the middle of NW 27th Avenue, from the MLK Metro Station to the Turnpike extension by Calder.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

you are right, ruiz could hire a third party manager that is in the business of managing venues/sites. however, UM is not in that business, as you know, so i don't see UM taking on that or a similar role. and it is likely out of its legal purpose to do so. again, unless UM puts money into the deal, which i think is unlikely, i cannot see how UM's position at tropical is any better than at HRS.

I understand your concerns. You may see pitfalls with UM doing something like this, although another private school (USC) has no problems doing this in Los Angeles. I'm not sure where "legal purpose" enters in, UM already runs an entire healthcare system, so managing a puny event center/stadium (yes, I'm just joking around here) seems to not be nearly as complicated or risky.

And if you can't see all the monetary advantages, then no amount of current discussion is going to change that. Perhaps once the numbers are finalized, you might see what's going on a bit better. In an absolutely NON-JUDGMENTAL way, I do understand that some people might be hesitant to accept projections and estimates at an early stage like this. Not a problem at all, I can respect that.

It's a big (potential) deal with big numbers. Lots of moving parts. Some aspects that would be unprecedented in Miami/Dade political and business circles. Skepticism and intellectual challenges are good, it forces everyone to work harder to make a better and more mutually beneficial deal.

 

[NJshoreCane]

I'll do you one better.

Connect the Palmetto Metro station to the Dadeland South Metro Station by running a line down the middle of the Palmetto.

Then run an east-west line down the middle of the Dolphin, connecting Culmer Metro Station to Dolphin Station Park & Ride.

And while we're at it, run a north line up the middle of NW 27th Avenue, from the MLK Metro Station to the Turnpike extension by Calder.

That's 3 better.
Like it.

Point is,
There is more to the parking sitchy than just X amount of spaces per number of seats.

Any way it's sliced, I'll get there.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Let me just add one other thought here.

Lots of people don't know this, but the Marlins Stadium deal (involving the parking garages) is a blatant violation of the law, at least the way it was structured. It was SO BAD that Dade County was going to send the City of Miami a MASSIVE property tax bill for those 4 parking garages. Ultimately, political pressure was exerted to cave-in the head of the Dade Tax Assessor, and the bill was never sent (although he tried to claim a Pyrrhic victory by claiming that he STILL COULD tax the City of Miami, he just CHOSE NOT TO).

Without boring people to tears with the details, the key problem with the Marlins parking garages is the structure of the deal, and who gets what money and under what terms. BLATANT violation of the law.

But the real turning point was this. David Samson, who led the efforts on behalf of the Marlins, DIDN'T CARE about the impact to the City. He just wanted the terms that he wanted (no details here, just trust me, I've read the key terms of the agreement). And on the other side of the negotiating table, the politicians (and their paid advisors) were simply too stupid to realize that they were wading into legal quicksand.

Whatever deal that the Ruiz family tries to strike with Dade County will have a ton of terms, as well as some elements that, perhaps, nobody has anticipated. And I certainly believe that the Ruiz family is more honest and less inclined to push for HORRIBLE one-sided terms (as Samson was) that cause (eventual) harm to the taxpayers.

That is all. Take from it what you will. These deals are highly complex and can have decades-long ramifications to taxpayers. I don't think the Ruiz family will be as willing to "fvck over/walk away from" negative impacts to Dade County taxpayers as Samson and the Marlins were with the City of Miami.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

That's 3 better.
Like it.

Point is.
There is more to the parking sitchy than just X amount of spaces per number of seats.

Truth.