Places to knock down for stadium

[954Cane'21]

Can you do a similar graphic on the Central Shopping Center (located just north of Magic City Casino), between NW 7th Street and NW 11th Street, and between NW 37th Avenue and NW 39th Avenue?

And, ****, if we are talking about tearing down houses, then take the site all the way west to LeJeune.

Access to 836 via Douglas and LeJeune.

Another 40 ish acres.....But that plot would be tough on traffic...perhaps worse than tropical

 

[SWFLHurricane]

Someone numbers are off then

Ruiz family saying a stadium usually takes up 25 acres

Tropical Park has over 200 acres

A 50,000 seat Stadium, with ample Parking, will need ALOT more than 25 acres.....The entire University of Miami is 230 acres...

 

[954Cane'21]

A 50,000 seat Stadium, with ample Parking, will need ALOT more than 25 acres.....The entire University of Miami is 230 acres...

US bank stadium (70k capacity with a massive green out front, is a hair over 30......so 25 isn't a stretch

 

[DTP]

US bank stadium (70k capacity with a massive green out front, is a hair over 30......so 25 isn't a stretch

I saw an overhead view but where does everyone park? There’s no lot or garage anywhere in the immediate vicinity. The Orange Bowl had limited on site parking so most people just paid to park on private property. Which wasn’t bad unless you paid extra for “no blockee” and you still got blocked in by another car. Not sure if that type of parking situation flies in other areas as “tow away zone” is probably the most popular sign you see here.

 

[Bender]

Think I read somewhere that Hard Rock had an overall size of 130 acres.

 

[Hurracanes]

Remember when moving the Marlins further south would guarantee bigger crowds because that’s where all their fans were? Lol.

Apples and Oranges but nice try.

Broward fans are so awesome that the Panthers can’t even sell out with the best team in the NHL.

 

[JD08]

Apples and Oranges but nice try.

Broward fans are so awesome that the Panthers can’t even sell out with the best team in the NHL.

So you're saying fans won't go to the games if they have to travel too far?

 

[TheOriginalCane]

I never said anything about continuing to rent or what I thought was the best solution. One thing I do know is that the best way to maximize sales is to limit the number of objections of a potential consumer. Telling everyone north of Miami to fvck off we don't care about you is not a good way to get their business.

I'm just going to be honest, outside of a couple of times when I told Broward/Palm Beach whiners to fvck off (I drive from Orlando), when has UM ever told any of the alums/boosters/ticketholders to fvck off (directly, I'm not talking about Beta Blake's passive-aggressive "fvck-offs")? Until a few years ago, everyone drove to NW 7th Street. Tropical is approximately 10 miles southwest of the Orange Bowl. There are two locations along NW 7th Street that could work too. Somehow, the discussion has focused on "moving from Hard Rock", which has only been our stadium for 15 years. Simply moving closer to our 70 year old home stadium (the no-longer-in-existence Orange Bowl) is not some sort of "fvck off" to fans who live north of Dade.

Issues must be addressed and resolved with any location. But when we moved into Hard Rock 15 years ago, there were no plans to build a tennis center and a Dolphins practice facility and a Formula 1 racetrack. Or maybe there were, and nobody told us. Certainly, the fans did not expect this.

Hard Rock is a 35 year old football stadium on a site that is being chipped away by every other sport not involving baseball, basketball, or hockey. Yet the constant focus of debate (by the new stadium opponents) is on how cheap and bare-bones the new stadium will be, how much parking we won't have, and how much traffic there will be. As if I don't spend an hour trying to get out of Dade every time (I admit, I do get to the stadium easily, since I tailgate early and often).

That's all. I don't think there has ever been an official "fvck you" from UM. We had a central-Dade stadium for 70 years and now a Dade-Broward stadium for 15 years. All of SoFla needs to address traffic, mass transit, and parking. I never hear about moving the Boat Show to Palm Beach County, and that event is a trafficpocalypse.

Perhaps more wins will put butts in the seats no matter where we play the games. But I still think that what Hard Rock is doing with its site is incredibly problematic for UM football. And I also think that UM ownership and/or operatorship of a football stadium closer to campus would be a net positive. That is not a "fvck you" to UM alums, boosters, season ticket holders, and fans in Broward or Palm Beach.

However, me personally? I'll still probably tell people in Broward and Palm Beach that

 

[TheOriginalCane]

E

Enjoy the pretend empty stadium.

 

[DTP]

Apples and Oranges but nice try.

Broward fans are so awesome that the Panthers can’t even sell out with the best team in the NHL.

You use a hockey comparison after calling mine apples and oranges. Panther’s couldn’t sell tickets in Miami either but still out draw the Marlins for a sport that nobody in Florida really cares about. The baseball loving community in Miami still doesn’t go to any games.

 

[hotshot]

That was built before our university was founded. Land might have been a bit easier to come by back then.

Built in the 1920s to attract the 1924 Olympic Games (their bid failed). Cost around $16M in today's dollars. Built in a public park so I don't think the land was an issue.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

It is absurd to even consider demolishing all of those homes to build a stadium nowhere near campus. There are about 100 hundred homes and hundreds of apartments under construction and in development within a mile. There is a shortage of affordable housing throughout Miami-Dade and it is being addressed in that community. Tropical Park is the only real option too me.

Uh, yeaaaah...there is a shortage of affordable housing throughout Dade, something the county (and cities) have IGNORED for decades as they continue to grant approval to higher-priced housing and gated developments, but these 40 acres in Earlington Heights or West Doral are the solution to everything?

Look, the eternal NIMBY-ism of Dade County is what led Joe Robbie to put Hard Rock in the middle of a predominantly black (at the time at least) neighborhood in the first place. There are no good answers. A stadium is going to break eggs no matter where you put it. So until Dade County actually gets serious about building affordable housing, I'm going to continue to presume that they give the same amount of ****es on that issue that they have given for the last 50 years.

 

[Cryptical Envelopment]

If this thing ever sees the light of day it’ll be Ruiz operating it.

We don’t know that. I could see UM running the stadium and any investors sharing the surrounding development rights or something to that effect.

Or it could be a non-profit (UM) entity that provides tax mitigation strategies for the supporters along the way.

We really shouldn’t speculate in any sort of concrete way. We don’t know.

 

[954Cane'21]

I saw an overhead view but where does everyone park? There’s no lot or garage anywhere in the immediate vicinity. The Orange Bowl had limited on site parking so most people just paid to park on private property. Which wasn’t bad unless you paid extra for “no blockee” and you still got blocked in by another car. Not sure if that type of parking situation flies in other areas as “tow away zone” is probably the most popular sign you see here.

9 Lots and 4 garages within a couple blocks....And the Train literally on the stadium steps...We'd have to do it like the Marlins and just stack garages outside the stadium

 

[DTP]

I'm just going to be honest, outside of a couple of times when I told Broward/Palm Beach whiners to fvck off (I drive from Orlando), when has UM ever told any of the alums/boosters/ticketholders to fvck off (directly, I'm not talking about Beta Blake's passive-aggressive "fvck-offs")? Until a few years ago, everyone drove to NW 7th Street. Tropical is approximately 10 miles southwest of the Orange Bowl. There are two locations along NW 7th Street that could work too. Somehow, the discussion has focused on "moving from Hard Rock", which has only been our stadium for 15 years. Simply moving closer to our 70 year old home stadium (the no-longer-in-existence Orange Bowl) is not some sort of "fvck off" to fans who live north of Dade.

Issues must be addressed and resolved with any location. But when we moved into Hard Rock 15 years ago, there were no plans to build a tennis center and a Dolphins practice facility and a Formula 1 racetrack. Or maybe there were, and nobody told us. Certainly, the fans did not expect this.

Hard Rock is a 35 year old football stadium on a site that is being chipped away by every other sport not involving baseball, basketball, or hockey. Yet the constant focus of debate (by the new stadium opponents) is on how cheap and bare-bones the new stadium will be, how much parking we won't have, and how much traffic there will be. As if I don't spend an hour trying to get out of Dade every time (I admit, I do get to the stadium easily, since I tailgate early and often).

That's all. I don't think there has ever been an official "fvck you" from UM. We had a central-Dade stadium for 70 years and now a Dade-Broward stadium for 15 years. All of SoFla needs to address traffic, mass transit, and parking. I never hear about moving the Boat Show to Palm Beach County, and that event is a trafficpocalypse.

Perhaps more wins will put butts in the seats no matter where we play the games. But I still think that what Hard Rock is doing with its site is incredibly problematic for UM football. And I also think that UM ownership and/or operatorship of a football stadium closer to campus would be a net positive. That is not a "fvck you" to UM alums, boosters, season ticket holders, and fans in Broward or Palm Beach.

However, me personally? I'll still probably tell people in Broward and Palm Beach that
View attachment 177247

It’s not the distance. My family had season tickets at the Orange Bowl for most of the 90’s and I had season tickets there from 2002 (when I moved back to south Florida) until they closed the stadium. I actually didn’t want them to move to Joe Robbie. I’ve probably been to the Orange Bowl more times than a lot of these “die hards” who attended the bi-annual FSU game and nothing else. I actually voted for the Tropical Park option in the poll. But whenever I make logical, logistical points about how it might not be feasible to build a huge stadium is certain places, people think it’s some kind of objection to UM having their own stadium. Is putting the stadium somewhere that it will take 3 hours of traffic to get into the stadium a stupid idea? Yes. Are people actually going to deal with that? Maybe some will, for a little while. Until the team goes 9-3 or 8-4. This team struggles to draw more than 45000 fans to a stadium that’s incredibly convenient to get to/from. Imagine if the experience of coming and going to the stadium became 10x’s worse and how much more they would struggle to draw fans.

Build a stadium in a location where there’s room to park and multiple ways in/out so that it’s not an enormous ordeal and people will go. It’s not the distance it’s the logistics

 

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

No, page 40 of 53 shows the operating expense of The Coliseum

Bro, that’s page 38.

When you’re quoting a financial statement, you use the actual page number.

 

[Gables Cane]

But it's a park. A park. I mean, if Dade County wants to get rid of a huge public park, sure. But that park has fields and lakes and trails and equestrian, and I don't think they are just going to turn that park into an entertainment center.

Again, if they want to redevelop stuff along Bird Road (Tropicaire, Tropical Park Plaza, etc.), then that's fine. Or maybe the industrial area east of the Palmetto (which would work well with my "extend/elevate Blue Road" idea).

Take a look at the dining/entertainment area that NASCAR has built to the north of Daytona International, across an 8-lane road. Two pedestrian bridges. Plenty of parking. Could easily be done at Tropicaire.

I agree that the idea of turning a public park into an entertainment area to primarily support a football stadium for a private university is highly unlikely. County officials would essentially be turning a multi-purpose public park into an amusement area for tourists and football fans. But, then again, this is Miami we are talking about.

With that said, repurposing an existing county stadium for the University and Miami-Dade County high schools, while leaving the remainder of Tropical Park largely in tact, is something that could make sense.

 

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

Sure. My point is just HKS doesn't take any piecemeal gig that walks through the door. They are about prestige. They would tell you no thank you if you walked in without legitimate bonafides. They aren't going to want to be involved in a clown show or underfunded project. They aren't just any old architects. They are a very high-profile and highly-respected leading design firm. They work on massive projects where they have to manage the intersection of PR, government approval and/or oversight, and then some. Airports, renown performing arts centers, government buildings, university expansions, cutting edge hospitals, stadiums, etc. At this level they would be vetting the client, doing an internal feasibility temperature check, etc. They literally have their own internal PR division. Part of their internal PR team's mission is to "develop global communication campaigns that shape HKS' reputation."

Are we going to have a new stadium in 3-5 years? Who the **** knows? We both know how many pitfalls and obstacles there will be to overcome. But if HKS is truly aboard, that tells us that whatever the Ruiz' presented them with was enough for HKS to take them very, f'ing seriously.

All it tells us is that they were willing to create a site plan for a fee.

 

[canecrazy23]

Any Miami Hurricane game at Hard Rock Stadium, even the sellouts. Hopefully that answers your question.

Yup. Easiest stadium to get in and out of.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

It’s not the distance. My family had season tickets at the Orange Bowl for most of the 90’s and I had season tickets there from 2002 (when I moved back to south Florida) until they closed the stadium. I actually didn’t want them to move to Joe Robbie. I’ve probably been to the Orange Bowl more times than a lot of these “die hards” who attended the bi-annual FSU game and nothing else. I actually voted for the Tropical Park option in the poll. But whenever I make logical, logistical points about how it might not be feasible to build a huge stadium is certain places, people think it’s some kind of objection to UM having their own stadium. Is putting the stadium somewhere that it will take 3 hours of traffic to get into the stadium a stupid idea? Yes. Are people actually going to deal with that? Maybe some will, for a little while. Until the team goes 9-3 or 8-4. This team struggles to draw more than 45000 fans to a stadium that’s incredibly convenient to get to/from. Imagine if the experience of coming and going to the stadium became 10x’s worse and how much more they would struggle to draw fans.

Build a stadium in a location where there’s room to park and multiple ways in/out so that it’s not an enormous ordeal and people will go. It’s not the distance it’s the logistics

Those are all relevant points. A couple of things.

First, you have to forgive people who are resistant to the criticisms, at least for the moment, as we have been dealing with DECADES of "it's never gonna happen" pessimists.

Second, there is no completely ideal location, and Tropical Park isn't my ideal location either. Issues that you raise, about traffic and parking, will be problematic at any location, so we just need to keep "I have concerns" points separate from "you can't do that there" points.

Third, almost every location would involve some combination of "destruction of existing things" and "need to acquire a bigger footprint and the destruction of existing things".

I have no idea why "east of Marlins Park" isn't the top option. It was under consideration for the soccer stadium (well, "west of Marlins Park" was), and a football stadium would be marginally larger (seating-wise). There is history (70 years worth), there is roadway access, there is parking.

I have no idea why the "north of Magic City Casino" option isn't discussed more. There is proximity (2 miles from old Orange Bowl), there is roadway access, there could be parking arrangements (shuttles from Marlins Park, deals with Magic City and/or the soccer facility to the north, etc.), and there is potential synergy with the Mas-brother-owned Inter Miami soccer team to be located just to the north.

Tropical Park is beautiful, and outside of proximity to UM, carries some of the largest potential negatives, in that it impairs a major public park for 7 football games per year.

No matter what, mass transit should still be pursued. MetroRail was PREVIOUSLY UNDER DISCUSSION to be extended to Hard Rock. Why can't that be revisited? But the same thing is true for other locations too. Build ONE MORE MILE of Metrorail between Civic Center and Culmer that crosses the Miami River and puts a station outside of Marlins Park. The problem with the MetroRail has ALWAYS been that it does not go where people want to be.

All these issues are fixable. I hear your concerns. Dade County needs to address traffic and parking FOR THE WHOLE COUNTY. But Hard Rock is also pushing us in this direction, with the constant diminishment of the stadium site.