Places to knock down for stadium

[954Cane'21]

It is absurd to even consider demolishing all of those homes to build a stadium nowhere near campus. There are about 100 hundred homes and hundreds of apartments under construction and in development within a mile. There is a shortage of affordable housing throughout Miami-Dade and it is being addressed in that community. Tropical Park is the only real option too me.

No it isnt....and no there's not a single unit of multifamily in that area I outlined..... we're talking about 120-140 homes that are all single family, a gas station, and a tire recycler....Ruiz said he wanted to make a village. There's also a massive 3 stage affordable housing project by related group going in across the street with 300+ housing units. The residents would be easy to move and it would greatly help their community to have this there.

 

[canecrazy23]

Lol. No they’re not. Once Ruiz started grandstanding you knew some “plans” would be drawn up. Next you’ll hear about “discussions” or “negotiations.” It’s all smoke and mirrors to build some goodwill.

Would love to see it, but ain’t no stadium going up in Tropical Park, or anywhere else for that matter.

I work with HKS on a weekly basis so i'm going to see what I can find out.

 

[AlexCane]

I read the last few pages of this thread and all I can think about is how there wasn't more uproar when we abandoned the OB. That decision had real impacts for the school more than a decade later. And regardless the optimism of late, a stadium is an uphill challenge. It's remarkable that folks no longer connected to either UM or the Marlins made decisions that impacted the program to this degree (particularly in favor of a franchise that has a very attenuated connection to this community).

 

[JD08]

I'm just going to be honest, outside of a couple of times when I told Broward/Palm Beach whiners to fvck off (I drive from Orlando), when has UM ever told any of the alums/boosters/ticketholders to fvck off (directly, I'm not talking about Beta Blake's passive-aggressive "fvck-offs")? Until a few years ago, everyone drove to NW 7th Street. Tropical is approximately 10 miles southwest of the Orange Bowl. There are two locations along NW 7th Street that could work too. Somehow, the discussion has focused on "moving from Hard Rock", which has only been our stadium for 15 years. Simply moving closer to our 70 year old home stadium (the no-longer-in-existence Orange Bowl) is not some sort of "fvck off" to fans who live north of Dade.

Issues must be addressed and resolved with any location. But when we moved into Hard Rock 15 years ago, there were no plans to build a tennis center and a Dolphins practice facility and a Formula 1 racetrack. Or maybe there were, and nobody told us. Certainly, the fans did not expect this.

Hard Rock is a 35 year old football stadium on a site that is being chipped away by every other sport not involving baseball, basketball, or hockey. Yet the constant focus of debate (by the new stadium opponents) is on how cheap and bare-bones the new stadium will be, how much parking we won't have, and how much traffic there will be. As if I don't spend an hour trying to get out of Dade every time (I admit, I do get to the stadium easily, since I tailgate early and often).

That's all. I don't think there has ever been an official "fvck you" from UM. We had a central-Dade stadium for 70 years and now a Dade-Broward stadium for 15 years. All of SoFla needs to address traffic, mass transit, and parking. I never hear about moving the Boat Show to Palm Beach County, and that event is a trafficpocalypse.

Perhaps more wins will put butts in the seats no matter where we play the games. But I still think that what Hard Rock is doing with its site is incredibly problematic for UM football. And I also think that UM ownership and/or operatorship of a football stadium closer to campus would be a net positive. That is not a "fvck you" to UM alums, boosters, season ticket holders, and fans in Broward or Palm Beach.

However, me personally? I'll still probably tell people in Broward and Palm Beach that
View attachment 177247

The university will do everything they can to make sure it's accessible to all alumni and fans to the north. They will not take @Hurracanes advice and say "good riddance" to a donating alum who doesn't want to drive down. Nor will they say *** them, we'll replace you with a casual fan from Homestead.

People automatically assume that my position is one of selfishness. I rarely go to games and am willing to drive down to the Light, so that absolutely isn't the case. It's a matter of doing whatever it takes to put the most butts in seats because that's what's best for the school. Amenities and traffic are definitely concerns to be considered. Joe Robbie put the stadium where he did for a reason. If naming rights or other financial benefits can offset those lost ticket sales, then so be it. But even at Tropical Park, which is where I'd prefer to most of the other choices, the same old arguments of our opponents will ring true. Look, they built a new, state of the art stadium and STILL can't fill it, and it's STILL not on campus.

Money talks and they'd better listen to whatever solution talks the loudest.

 

[Felonious Monk]

The city grew up around the Orange Bowl. You knew what you were getting into when you bought a house in its shadow. How are the residents going to feel about a huge, loud, brightly lit stadium being dropped near their house?

 

[Cryptical Envelopment]

The university will do everything they can to make sure it's accessible to all alumni and fans to the north. They will not take @Hurracanes advice and say "good riddance" to a donating alum who doesn't want to drive down. Nor will they say *** them, we'll replace you with a casual fan from Homestead.

People automatically assume that my position is one of selfishness. I rarely go to games and am willing to drive down to the Light, so that absolutely isn't the case. It's a matter of doing whatever it takes to put the most butts in seats because that's what's best for the school. Amenities and traffic are definitely concerns to be considered. Joe Robbie put the stadium where he did for a reason. If naming rights or other financial benefits can offset those lost ticket sales, then so be it. But even at Tropical Park, which is where I'd prefer to most of the other choices, the same old arguments of our opponents will ring true. Look, they built a new, state of the art stadium and STILL can't fill it, and it's STILL not on campus.

Money talks and they'd better listen to whatever solution talks the loudest.

Opponents are always going to find SOMETHING to point to. ****, we do it when we talk about middle of nowhere SEC schools. Or UF's hundreds of arrests.

There are a lot of schools with off-campus stadiums that rarely get mentioned.

UCLA, Pitt, Temple, Washington... and more are all off campus. What do these places all have in common? They are located in cities where humans actually want to live and real estate is valuable and scarce.

My only problem with HRS is that we don't own it/aren't primary tenant, which means we are at a revenue disadvantage on game day vs our opponents. And we don't control it, as in we don't know what could happen to it and our relationship with it in the future. We could have the rug pulled out from under us if say a Gator alumni buys the stadium/Dolphins one day (j/k, Gators can't afford sports franchises!!).

 

[TheOriginalCane]

I read the last few pages of this thread and all I can think about is how there wasn't more uproar when we abandoned the OB. That decision had real impacts for the school more than a decade later. And regardless the optimism of late, a stadium is an uphill challenge. It's remarkable that folks no longer connected to either UM or the Marlins made decisions that impacted the program to this degree (particularly in favor of a franchise that has a very attenuated connection to this community).

Why do you choose to frame this as "we abandoned the OB"?

Why can we not have an honest discussion of what actually happened?

Post-9/11, there was a ton of government money and bonds available to make all kinds of infrastructure improvements.

ALL OF DADE COUNTY voted to approve massive renovations to the Orange Bowl. You know, ON AN ACTUAL COUNTY-WIDE REFERENDUM. On November 2, 2004, Dade County voted BY A 2-1 MARGIN to approve bonds to fund the Orange Bowl renovations.

In 2005, the City of Miami signed a contract with Hammes, the company that renovated Lambeau Stadium, to renovate the Orange Bowl.

By 2006, the City of Miami (under dual political pressure from the Marlins, who wanted the Orange Bowl site, and local-area builders and construction companies, who did not want an outside company like Hammes to have the entire deal), the City of Miami repudiated the Hammes deal and paid over a million dollars in damages.

By 2007, the City of Miami was engaged in plans to hand over the entire Orange Bowl site to the Marlins. Subsequent self-dealing on the Marlins parking garages invalidated the tax-exempt status of the garages, and after massive political pressure exerted by the City of Miami on Dade County, the Dade County property tax assessor's office begrudgingly removed the Marlins parking garages from the Dade County property tax rolls once again.

For decades, the City of Miami reneged on promised improvements to the Orange Bowl, even after Dade County voters approved such improvements.

This is the context for how the City of Miami forced UM out of the Orange Bowl lease years early, so that Miami could give the site to the Marlins.

UM didn't "abandon the Orange Bowl".

 

[TheOriginalCane]

The university will do everything they can to make sure it's accessible to all alumni and fans to the north. They will not take @Hurracanes advice and say "good riddance" to a donating alum who doesn't want to drive down. Nor will they say *** them, we'll replace you with a casual fan from Homestead.

People automatically assume that my position is one of selfishness. I rarely go to games and am willing to drive down to the Light, so that absolutely isn't the case. It's a matter of doing whatever it takes to put the most butts in seats because that's what's best for the school. Amenities and traffic are definitely concerns to be considered. Joe Robbie put the stadium where he did for a reason. If naming rights or other financial benefits can offset those lost ticket sales, then so be it. But even at Tropical Park, which is where I'd prefer to most of the other choices, the same old arguments of our opponents will ring true. Look, they built a new, state of the art stadium and STILL can't fill it, and it's STILL not on campus.

Money talks and they'd better listen to whatever solution talks the loudest.

A couple of things.

First, Joe Robbie built the stadium where he did...because black people lived nearby (you know, land was cheap) and because white people had fled Dade County (you know, Marielitos).

Second, if we put a brand new football stadium immediately east of Marlins Park, I don't think I would care what our opponents say.

 

[JD08]

A couple of things.

First, Joe Robbie built the stadium where he did...because black people lived nearby (you know, land was cheap) and because white people had fled Dade County (you know, Marielitos).

Second, if we put a brand new football stadium immediately east of Marlins Park, I don't think I would care what our opponents say.

You're oversimplifying. A large quantity of land was available cheap. The same could've been said for many places south of Perrine, yet he chose to put it right by Golden Glades.

I don't care what our opponents say now, but it seems to be a big concern for everyone else.

 

[pacusmc]

What about the key biscayne tennis center where they played the open before? Those parking Lots at key biscayne are always empty anyway and they’re already there. Make some overhead walkways to cross over to the stadium where center court and the rest of the courts are at. Throw some money to help clean up key biscayne and make the environmentalist happy. It’s Not as close to campus as tropical but way closer than hard rock.
I believe it’s like 12 miles from campus.

 

[AlexCane]

Why do you choose to frame this as "we abandoned the OB"?

Why can we not have an honest discussion of what actually happened?

Post-9/11, there was a ton of government money and bonds available to make all kinds of infrastructure improvements.

ALL OF DADE COUNTY voted to approve massive renovations to the Orange Bowl. You know, ON AN ACTUAL COUNTY-WIDE REFERENDUM. On November 2, 2004, Dade County voted BY A 2-1 MARGIN to approve bonds to fund the Orange Bowl renovations.

In 2005, the City of Miami signed a contract with Hammes, the company that renovated Lambeau Stadium, to renovate the Orange Bowl.

By 2006, the City of Miami (under dual political pressure from the Marlins, who wanted the Orange Bowl site, and local-area builders and construction companies, who did not want an outside company like Hammes to have the entire deal), the City of Miami repudiated the Hammes deal and paid over a million dollars in damages.

By 2007, the City of Miami was engaged in plans to hand over the entire Orange Bowl site to the Marlins. Subsequent self-dealing on the Marlins parking garages invalidated the tax-exempt status of the garages, and after massive political pressure exerted by the City of Miami on Dade County, the Dade County property tax assessor's office begrudgingly removed the Marlins parking garages from the Dade County property tax rolls once again.

For decades, the City of Miami reneged on promised improvements to the Orange Bowl, even after Dade County voters approved such improvements.

This is the context for how the City of Miami forced UM out of the Orange Bowl lease years early, so that Miami could give the site to the Marlins.

UM didn't "abandon the Orange Bowl".

Thanks for the info. I don't remember anything about how that deal went down. I wasn't educated at all then about how it went down nor am I aware of it now.

But don't read into my choice of words to that degree. That may have been a bad word, but bottom-line, the fact that the UM administration couldn't negotiate or manipulate some deal sucked.

 

[rsa coral gables]

Those are all relevant points. A couple of things.

First, you have to forgive people who are resistant to the criticisms, at least for the moment, as we have been dealing with DECADES of "it's never gonna happen" pessimists.

Second, there is no completely ideal location, and Tropical Park isn't my ideal location either. Issues that you raise, about traffic and parking, will be problematic at any location, so we just need to keep "I have concerns" points separate from "you can't do that there" points.

Third, almost every location would involve some combination of "destruction of existing things" and "need to acquire a bigger footprint and the destruction of existing things".

I have no idea why "east of Marlins Park" isn't the top option. It was under consideration for the soccer stadium (well, "west of Marlins Park" was), and a football stadium would be marginally larger (seating-wise). There is history (70 years worth), there is roadway access, there is parking.

This site was going to be explored when Inter Miami was looking for a location, but it fell through when some of the homeowners got real greedy.

I have no idea why the "north of Magic City Casino" option isn't discussed more. There is proximity (2 miles from old Orange Bowl), there is roadway access, there could be parking arrangements (shuttles from Marlins Park, deals with Magic City and/or the soccer facility to the north, etc.), and there is potential synergy with the Mas-brother-owned Inter Miami soccer team to be located just to the north.

The shopping center you mention from time to time is barely 10 acres, so it isn't feasible.

The Inter Miami location is not feasible either. you have 3 initial MAJOR impediments. first is parking which is underground and not enough to support 50k. plus since it is undergound there would be little to no tailgate areas second, is height. the FAA has already complained that the proposed initial height might be too high given that planes are landing less than a mile away. a bigger bowl suggest a taller bowl and further issues with the FAA. third, the city of miami (all that needs to be said).

Tropical Park is beautiful, and outside of proximity to UM, carries some of the largest potential negatives, in that it impairs a major public park for 7 football games per year.

No matter what, mass transit should still be pursued. MetroRail was PREVIOUSLY UNDER DISCUSSION to be extended to Hard Rock. Why can't that be revisited? But the same thing is true for other locations too. Build ONE MORE MILE of Metrorail between Civic Center and Culmer that crosses the Miami River and puts a station outside of Marlins Park. The problem with the MetroRail has ALWAYS been that it does not go where people want to be.

All these issues are fixable. I hear your concerns. Dade County needs to address traffic and parking FOR THE WHOLE COUNTY. But Hard Rock is also pushing us in this direction, with the constant diminishment of the stadium site.

 

[rsa coral gables]

What about the key biscayne tennis center where they played the open before? Those parking Lots at key biscayne are always empty anyway and they’re already there. Make some overhead walkways to cross over to the stadium where center court and the rest of the courts are at. Throw some money to help clean up key biscayne and make the environmentalist happy. It’s Not as close to campus as tropical but way closer than hard rock.
I believe it’s like 12 miles from campus.

hilarious. hilarious. hilarious.

have you ever heard the city of key biscayne residents complain about the tennis center and later the boat show?

one way in and one way out of the key, unless you plan to arrive via boat.

and have you heard of the Matheson family who deeded the property to the county with restrictions and sued the county a few years ago when the county tried to expand the foot print of the tennis center and lost, causing the 2 week tennis open to move to, guess where?, Hard Rock Stadium.

you guys live in a video game world.

 

[rsa coral gables]

A couple of things.

First, Joe Robbie built the stadium where he did...because black people lived nearby (you know, land was cheap) and because white people had fled Dade County (you know, Marielitos).

Second, if we put a brand new football stadium immediately east of Marlins Park, I don't think I would care what our opponents say.

dont forget that Arison deeded the land to Robbie for $1.

 

[pacusmc]

hilarious. hilarious. hilarious.

have you ever heard the city of key biscayne residents complain about the tennis center and later the boat show?

one way in and one way out of the key, unless you plan to arrive via boat.

and have you heard of the Matheson family who deeded the property to the county with restrictions and sued the county a few years ago when the county tried to expand the foot print of the tennis center and lost, causing the 2 week tennis open to move to, guess where?, Hard Rock Stadium.

you guys live in a video game world.

Thank you for answering the question.
So I guess there is nowhere in the entire county to build it?

 

[rsa coral gables]

Thank you for answering the question.
So I guess there is nowhere in the entire county to build it?

there is, but not anywhere near the university. all reasonable and feasible alternatives, in my opinion, are just as far and "problematic" as Hard Rock.

i repeat, WIN, and everything takes care of itself.

 

[3GC]

Soooo if no one from UM is involved and UM wont own the stadium, reaping all the financial benefits that have been laid out already. How exactly is this different than hardrock situation??? You dont think ruiz wants to profit?? Trust me, tropical is closer to me but i still dnt see how it wouldnt be a horrendous traffic situation.

The Palmetto is a horrendous situation, stadium or not..

 

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

Thank you for answering the question.
So I guess there is nowhere in the entire county to build it?

there is, but not anywhere near the university. all reasonable and feasible alternatives, in my opinion, are just as far and "problematic" as Hard Rock.

i repeat, WIN, and everything takes care of itself.

This is correct. Tons of places to build in Dade county, places where there’s more than enough land for stadium and parking, unfortunately, these places are either as far away from the campus as Hard Rock or possibly even further. With most of these parcels, the amount of infrastructure build up would be very costly as well. So the only real practical choices to build in Dade County, based on everything I know, and granted this is my opinion, are at least as far away as Hard Rock and some are further.

If this thing ever goes through, and assuming they’re not going to get to build in tropical park because I think that’ll be cut off by the cities and powers that be, they’re going to have to build a stadium that is going to be a good 40 minute drive away from campus.

 

[Cryptical Envelopment]

 

[3GC]

all the nostalgia! corky's, taco viva, d'pizza, wolfies, I'll take a Vito's pizza(North Miami) home of the Fuggazza pizza.

Frankies Pizza, only a mile west on Bird..