OT: 2 Taint State players charged with rape and kidnapping

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Why do we have to waste our time arguing over Ped State, Michigan State, or Ohio State being the biggest rape factory?

They are all distinguished in their own separate ways. They all deserve this shame.

Maybe we should focus on how much rape seems to be happening at the fine academic institutions of the Big 10.

That was actually kind of my point. As bad as Penn State was, MSU might be worse. It's an absolute epidemic in the Big 10.

Notre Dame would probably have been exposed as the worst years ago, but... you know.... Catholic Church and all.
 
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I’ve seen false rape accusations before, up close involving my ex college roommate. I know of two false rape claims that occurred when I was in college back in the early to mid 90s.

In one case, the young woman was crying and making a big scene , AFTER she willing slept with 3 guys at a house party. I was there and saw the whole thing, along with many others. She was a willing participant but then she lied and said she was raped. I’m assuming because she was ashamed, but who in the heck knows why she lied. All three guys were arrested and charged with rape - it was all over the news and they were kicked out of school, second semester senior year right before they were scheduled to graduate.

Fortunately many witnesses came forward - men and women - and they beat the case. And even with the witnesses the judge still tried to hang those guys. After months and months and many witnesses the young woman admitted to the lie. Crazy situation.

Last Spring, 24 years later those same guys and I were at a bachelor party and we discussed the case and what “could’ve been” if there were no witnesses. Talked about it for hours. 24 years later and those dudes were still bitter about it extremely angry with the girl and the lie that nearly destroyed all their lives
Had a similar situation happen to one of my best friends in high school. Had consensual *** with the younger sister of a known **** in the area. That younger sister had been in a relationship for 2 or 3 years with same dude. Next morning news spread of them hooking up at the party and BOOM it became a rape allegation. Her story was that she was too drunk to consent. I was there, she wasn't, she just realized the morning after that she just fvcked up her long term relationship and would likely be joining the ranks of her sister in the realm of public opinion (fair or not). But once that "rape" word was uttered, sh-t absolutely spiraled out of control and the lie became the tale wagging the dog. My boy was 18 and black; she was 17 and white. Want to take a wild stab at what some of the headlines in the papers read like? He was charged with full out rape, the same charges you'd get for tackling a jogger in a park and raping her, and was facing basically the rest of his valuable years behind bars.

Unlike in your situation, my buddy's case went to trial where a "jury of his peers" (12 white folks, majority women, none young) ultimately were hung. Yes, 6 of those people believed he should spend the rest of his life in jail for hooking up with an attractive intoxicated 17 year old who was all over him all night at that party, even though there wasn't one shred of evidence of rape beyond her testimony. It was utterly shocking to all of us! The idea that 6 of them voted to convict shook that kid beyond words. Shook all of us. As a result of that abortion of justice, he decided not to risk trial again and plead guilty to felony assault. It was almost sexual assault but my father stepped in and helped get them to understand the implications of having a *** crime conviction. He spent a couple years locked up and was never the same. Ended up going to NYC, getting into the club scene, hooked on all types of drugs, and his life never amounted to sh-t. Not saying that was all because of that situation, but the timelines coincide perfectly.

Now, does this experience therefore mean we should attack the credibility of every woman who claims they were raped? Of course not. But false rape allegations are way too common and can be absolutely catastrophic for one's life.

I'm by no means therefore implying that was the case with this OSU situation. I have no way of knowing either way. But that experience I described above affected me profoundly.
 
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That was actually kind of my point. As bad as Penn State was, MSU might be worse. It's an absolute epidemic in the Big 10.

Notre Dame would probably have been exposed as the worst years ago, but... you know.... Catholic Church and all.
Exactly. There is no argument to be won here. Just pointing out facts. I said ped u because I dislike them more than msu. Each situation is tragic
 
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I’ve seen false rape accusations before, up close involving my ex college roommate. I know of two false rape claims that occurred when I was in college back in the early to mid 90s.

In one case, the young woman was crying and making a big scene , AFTER she willing slept with 3 guys at a house party. I was there and saw the whole thing, along with many others. She was a willing participant but then she lied and said she was raped. I’m assuming because she was ashamed, but who in the heck knows why she lied. All three guys were arrested and charged with rape - it was all over the news and they were kicked out of school, second semester senior year right before they were scheduled to graduate.

Fortunately many witnesses came forward - men and women - and they beat the case. And even with the witnesses the judge still tried to hang those guys. After months and months and many witnesses the young woman admitted to the lie. Crazy situation.

Last Spring, 24 years later those same guys and I were at a bachelor party and we discussed the case and what “could’ve been” if there were no witnesses. Talked about it for hours. 24 years later and those dudes were still bitter about it extremely angry with the girl and the lie that nearly destroyed all their lives
you're right. I deleted. make a judgement after all the evidence is heard.
 
Its a very scary thing to think that a false accusation can ruin your life. There really is no other situation where an accusation can put you in prison based on hearsay.


It is a very difficult situation all around.

First, the issue of "consent" is largely based on verbal statements and actions. It has been, is, and always will be a very difficult area to navigate, from an evidentiary and legal process standpoint.

Second, guys need to deal with the reality of what women have to deal with when it comes to consent, and we have to be honest that sometimes the "nice charming guy" at the beginning of the night and the "guy in the bedroom" are very different individuals, and that a woman who may have been interested in the "nice charming guy" an hour earlier is not at all interested in (possibly) the over-aggressive guy that she encounters once the activity becomes more intimate. A woman should be able to change her mind and revoke her consent at any point before conclusion, and not be forced to "accept it" just because she was initially attracted to a guy and initially interested in intercourse. We have to acknowledge that there are plenty of valid reasons for women to change their minds AT THE TIME (and, no, I'm not talking about a week later).

Third, over and over again, certain posters want to tell "their stories" or "their friends' stories" which are factually unlike what is being described in the article. So, again, I am not accepting the article as "actual factual" yet, but I can acknowledge that the story ALLEGES that the woman was crying AT THE TIME. So all of your "I know a dude who was accused a week later" stories are not relevant to THIS STORY. AT THIS TIME.

Fourth, some posters want to confuse issues and have separate standards for men and women. Go back and look at things that have been written on this thread alone. Somehow, it is OK to refer to a female as a "known ****" (or, ****, even a woman's sister is a "known ****") and have that mean something (not everything, but at least something) about the woman's proclivity, yet when someone talks about THREE GUYS having *** with the same woman on the same night, somehow we get the benefit of flashing forward 20 years to them hanging out at a bachelor party (in their 40s???) and they are somehow bitter about the situation they found themselves in. Hey, here's an idea, guys who don't participate in running a train on a drunken girl (even a seemingly consensual train) tend not to be accused of rape (falsely or truthfully).

Again, none of these statements are absolutes. IT IS POSSIBLE for people to be falsely accused. It is horrible when it happens. But there are also PLENTY of ways to minimize EVER being accused (falsely or truthfully), and a reduction in the amount of alcohol (for all genders) and a reduction in the number of participants (for all genders) goes a long way to clearing up any prior questions on consent and any subsequent issues of remorse.

It's not that hard to do the right thing. And being bitter in your 40s about being "falsely accused" of sexual assault for that one time (one?) you ran a train on a drunken girl is not a great look, particularly when your life (obviously) was NOT "ruined" by the accusation.

As for the guy whose friend's life went poorly after his accusation, I absolutely have sympathy. And at the same time, there have been hundreds of thousands of women whose lives have similarly spiraled downward after they were raped because (until recently) our justice system has not handled their cases very well, from untested rape kits to unhelpful police investigators to misguided attorneys to not-very-understanding judges and juries.

We have to be honest. There is a lot, A LOT, that happens in life that is unjust and horrible. Most of us try to do the best we can, whether that is looking after ourselves and trying to prevent these situations from ever happening to us, to compassionately listening and helping others who have suffered from these situations.

We don't need to have a snap judgement here. We don't have to "100% believe" every aspect of the woman's story from Minute 1. But we also don't have to haul out every "I know a guy who was falsely accused" cliches when the anecdotal stories do not match the facts of THIS STORY.

Let the case be investigated, prosecuted, and decided. Do your best to respect the verdict, as you cannot possibly know what the jury heard or did not hear in evidence.
 
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Had a similar situation happen to one of my best friends in high school. Had consensual *** with the younger sister of a known **** in the area. That younger sister had been in a relationship for 2 or 3 years with same dude. Next morning news spread of them hooking up at the party and BOOM it became a rape allegation. Her story was that she was too drunk to consent. I was there, she wasn't, she just realized the morning after that she just fvcked up her long term relationship and would likely be joining the ranks of her sister in the realm of public opinion (fair or not). But once that "rape" word was uttered, sh-t absolutely spiraled out of control and the lie became the tale wagging the dog. My boy was 18 and black; she was 17 and white. Want to take a wild stab at what some of the headlines in the papers read like? He was charged with full out rape, the same charges you'd get for tackling a jogger in a park and raping her, and was facing basically the rest of his valuable years behind bars.

Unlike in your situation, my buddy's case went to trial where a "jury of his peers" (12 white folks, majority women, none young) ultimately were hung. Yes, 6 of those people believed he should spend the rest of his life in jail for hooking up with an attractive intoxicated 17 year old who was all over him all night at that party, even though there wasn't one shred of evidence of rape beyond her testimony. It was utterly shocking to all of us! The idea that 6 of them voted to convict shook that kid beyond words. Shook all of us. As a result of that abortion of justice, he decided not to risk trial again and plead guilty to felony assault. It was almost sexual assault but my father stepped in and helped get them to understand the implications of having a *** crime conviction. He spent a couple years locked up and was never the same. Ended up going to NYC, getting into the club scene, hooked on all types of drugs, and his life never amounted to sh-t. Not saying that was all because of that situation, but the timelines coincide perfectly.

Now, does this experience therefore mean we should attack the credibility of every woman who claims they were raped? Of course not. But false rape allegations are way too common and can be absolutely catastrophic for one's life.

I'm by no means therefore implying that was the case with this OSU situation. I have no way of knowing either way. But that experience I described above affected me profoundly.
Plenty of stories like this. That’s tough. Imagine 12 ppl who can absolutely ruin a young life off a accusation
 
Jim Tressel who was involved in an "Alleged federal drug trafficking case" while at ohio state was pretty much tattled on for a sanction. The players received cash benefits to.

Then Urban Meyer after letting the gators locker room become toxic, letting players skip class & do whatever they want as long as it did not effect the football field; He gets hired by ohio state after lying about a pending heart attack.. Put one and two together, the players or family most likely threatened him.

After meyer gets fired because supposedly he let one of his coaches.. Assistant wide receiver coach. Ryan Day takes his place as head coach and Justin Fields who the Bulldogs signed as the number one overall recruit lets him transfer; At Georgia it was reported by teammates & coaches that he couldn't remember any of the playbook, also the practice squad QB's were better then him no matter the setting.. At ohio state he somehow has some of the best stats out of any college team in 2019.

ADHD/ADD pills, if one isn't diagnosed with a lack short/long term memory. Methamphetamine/Ritalin based pills will let anyone remember a entire playbook over night more or less.. Kirby Smart clearly didn't want to deal with a stuck up kid who acts like he deserves everything because he was faster then high school defenses.
 
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It is a very difficult situation all around.

First, the issue of "consent" is largely based on verbal statements and actions. It has been, is, and always will be a very difficult area to navigate, from an evidentiary and legal process standpoint.

Second, guys need to deal with the reality of what women have to deal with when it comes to consent, and we have to be honest that sometimes the "nice charming guy" at the beginning of the night and the "guy in the bedroom" are very different individuals, and that a woman who may have been interested in the "nice charming guy" an hour earlier is not at all interested in (possibly) the over-aggressive guy that she encounters once the activity becomes more intimate. A woman should be able to change her mind and revoke her consent at any point before conclusion, and not be forced to "accept it" just because she was initially attracted to a guy and initially interested in intercourse. We have to acknowledge that there are plenty of valid reasons for women to change their minds AT THE TIME (and, no, I'm not talking about a week later).

Third, over and over again, certain posters want to tell "their stories" or "their friends' stories" which are factually unlike what is being described in the article. So, again, I am not accepting the article as "actual factual" yet, but I can acknowledge that the story ALLEGES that the woman was crying AT THE TIME. So all of your "I know a dude who was accused a week later" stories are not relevant to THIS STORY. AT THIS TIME.

Fourth, some posters want to confuse issues and have separate standards for men and women. Go back and look at things that have been written on this thread alone. Somehow, it is OK to refer to a female as a "known ****" (or, ****, even a woman's sister is a "known ****") and have that mean something (not everything, but at least something) about the woman's proclivity, yet when someone talks about THREE GUYS having *** with the same woman on the same night, somehow we get the benefit of flashing forward 20 years to them hanging out at a bachelor party (in their 40s???) and they are somehow bitter about the situation they found themselves in. Hey, here's an idea, guys who don't participate in running a train on a drunken girl (even a seemingly consensual train) tend not to be accused of rape (falsely or truthfully).

Again, none of these statements are absolutes. IT IS POSSIBLE for people to be falsely accused. It is horrible when it happens. But there are also PLENTY of ways to minimize EVER being accused (falsely or truthfully), and a reduction in the amount of alcohol (for all genders) and a reduction in the number of participants (for all genders) goes a long way to clearing up any prior questions on consent and any subsequent issues of remorse.

It's not that hard to do the right thing. And being bitter in your 40s about being "falsely accused" of sexual assault for that one time (one?) you ran a train on a drunken girl is not a great look, particularly when your life (obviously) was NOT "ruined" by the accusation.

As for the guy whose friend's life went poorly after his accusation, I absolutely have sympathy. And at the same time, there have been hundreds of thousands of women whose lives have similarly spiraled downward after they were raped because (until recently) our justice system has not handled their cases very well, from untested rape kits to unhelpful police investigators to misguided attorneys to not-very-understanding judges and juries.

We have to be honest. There is a lot, A LOT, that happens in life that is unjust and horrible. Most of us try to do the best we can, whether that is looking after ourselves and trying to prevent these situations from ever happening to us, to compassionately listening and helping others who have suffered from these situations.

We don't need to have a snap judgement here. We don't have to "100% believe" every aspect of the woman's story from Minute 1. But we also don't have to haul out every "I know a guy who was falsely accused" cliches when the anecdotal stories do not match the facts of THIS STORY.

Let the case be investigated, prosecuted, and decided. Do your best to respect the verdict, as you cannot possibly know what the jury heard or did not hear in evidence.
I just don't ever want to have my son or daughter in any of these situations.
 
What’s tough is the word “consent”..i always cover myself and have that in the back of my mind anytime I’m in that situation. If I get any inoculation that she’s hesitant I back off and slow down, but I had to learn that. How boys imagine *** and intimacy is different than how a female might perceive The same situation. A lot of our kids learn about *** from **** which is crazy cause that’s not at all real life lol...That’s why if you have a son u should talk to them about these situations. Even if a female doesn’t verbally say no if she is at all hesitant back tf off. It’s not victim shaming at women ppl tell their stories about being falsely accused because it happens
 
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Scary times when regret *** has turned to rape with kidnapping charges thrown in for good measure. All you guys on here with teenage sons speak to them about these things and explain to them clearly. Consent can be given and taken away even post *** and accusations alone can ruin lives. Assault also has been expanded to include dam near everything under the sun.
 
Is this a serious post?
Jim Tressel who was involved in an "Alleged federal drug trafficking case" while at ohio state was pretty much tattled on for a sanction. The players received cash benefits to.

Then Urban Meyer after letting the gators locker room become toxic, letting players skip class & do whatever they want as long as it did not effect the football field; He gets hired by ohio state after lying about a pending heart attack.. Put one and two together, the players or family most likely threatened him.

After meyer gets fired because supposedly he let one of his coaches.. Assistant wide receiver coach. Ryan Day takes his place as head coach and Justin Fields who the Bulldogs signed as the number one overall recruit lets him transfer; At Georgia it was reported by teammates & coaches that he couldn't remember any of the playbook, also the practice squad QB's were better then him no matter the setting.. At ohio state he somehow has some of the best stats out of any college team in 2019.

ADHD/ADD pills, if one isn't diagnosed with a lack short/long term memory. Methamphetamine/Ritalin based pills will let anyone remember a entire playbook over night more or less.. Kirby Smart clearly didn't want to deal with a stuck up kid who acts like he deserves everything because he was faster then high school defenses.
is this a serious post?
 
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A lot of our kids learn about *** from **** which is crazy cause that’s not at all real life lol
Man, absolutely spot on comment right there! Something not enough people in our world are talking about. An entire generation of kids are growing up with a really distorted concept of what *** is because all they know is what they see on pornhub. But that isn't going away, so we as a parents have to learn how to adapt and mentor them.
 
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@305to954

I posted facts. You should have some decency or common sense/logic to at least do some research; Everything I posted is easily accessible by using the internet dumbazz
 
It is a very difficult situation all around.

First, the issue of "consent" is largely based on verbal statements and actions. It has been, is, and always will be a very difficult area to navigate, from an evidentiary and legal process standpoint.

Second, guys need to deal with the reality of what women have to deal with when it comes to consent, and we have to be honest that sometimes the "nice charming guy" at the beginning of the night and the "guy in the bedroom" are very different individuals, and that a woman who may have been interested in the "nice charming guy" an hour earlier is not at all interested in (possibly) the over-aggressive guy that she encounters once the activity becomes more intimate. A woman should be able to change her mind and revoke her consent at any point before conclusion, and not be forced to "accept it" just because she was initially attracted to a guy and initially interested in intercourse. We have to acknowledge that there are plenty of valid reasons for women to change their minds AT THE TIME (and, no, I'm not talking about a week later).

Third, over and over again, certain posters want to tell "their stories" or "their friends' stories" which are factually unlike what is being described in the article. So, again, I am not accepting the article as "actual factual" yet, but I can acknowledge that the story ALLEGES that the woman was crying AT THE TIME. So all of your "I know a dude who was accused a week later" stories are not relevant to THIS STORY. AT THIS TIME.

Fourth, some posters want to confuse issues and have separate standards for men and women. Go back and look at things that have been written on this thread alone. Somehow, it is OK to refer to a female as a "known ****" (or, ****, even a woman's sister is a "known ****") and have that mean something (not everything, but at least something) about the woman's proclivity, yet when someone talks about THREE GUYS having *** with the same woman on the same night, somehow we get the benefit of flashing forward 20 years to them hanging out at a bachelor party (in their 40s???) and they are somehow bitter about the situation they found themselves in. Hey, here's an idea, guys who don't participate in running a train on a drunken girl (even a seemingly consensual train) tend not to be accused of rape (falsely or truthfully).

Again, none of these statements are absolutes. IT IS POSSIBLE for people to be falsely accused. It is horrible when it happens. But there are also PLENTY of ways to minimize EVER being accused (falsely or truthfully), and a reduction in the amount of alcohol (for all genders) and a reduction in the number of participants (for all genders) goes a long way to clearing up any prior questions on consent and any subsequent issues of remorse.

It's not that hard to do the right thing. And being bitter in your 40s about being "falsely accused" of sexual assault for that one time (one?) you ran a train on a drunken girl is not a great look, particularly when your life (obviously) was NOT "ruined" by the accusation.

As for the guy whose friend's life went poorly after his accusation, I absolutely have sympathy. And at the same time, there have been hundreds of thousands of women whose lives have similarly spiraled downward after they were raped because (until recently) our justice system has not handled their cases very well, from untested rape kits to unhelpful police investigators to misguided attorneys to not-very-understanding judges and juries.

We have to be honest. There is a lot, A LOT, that happens in life that is unjust and horrible. Most of us try to do the best we can, whether that is looking after ourselves and trying to prevent these situations from ever happening to us, to compassionately listening and helping others who have suffered from these situations.

We don't need to have a snap judgement here. We don't have to "100% believe" every aspect of the woman's story from Minute 1. But we also don't have to haul out every "I know a guy who was falsely accused" cliches when the anecdotal stories do not match the facts of THIS STORY.

Let the case be investigated, prosecuted, and decided. Do your best to respect the verdict, as you cannot possibly know what the jury heard or did not hear in evidence.
Excellent post. Sage wisdom. One quick comment to you though...

I did not mention the fact the girl in my story's sister was a known **** as that being some sort of character evidence that means the *** in question in that incident was more likely to be consensual. Her sister had basically slept with every dude I knew and many I didn't, so that was her reputation in the school and in the area, and it was one she earned justly. But that doesn't factor at all into what happened in that bedroom that evening - especially since it was her sister, though I'd apply the same logic even if it was her directly. Where it DID factor in IMO, and the sole reason I mentioned that when I told the story above, is because I 100% believe those thoughts were in her head the following morning ("I don't want to have my sister's reputation") and played a role in why she elected to say she was so drunk she never consented. To this day, I don't believe she ever desired for my friend to be charged or jailed. I believe a young panicked girl saw the lie of "I was so drunk I didn't even know it happened" as a way to save face with her boyfriend and with the situation that next morning. I can totally see why she'd think that; in fact, I've heard many people (men and women) try and get out of cheating trouble with their significant others by claiming they were too drunk to realize what they were doing. I don't think she appreciated what telling that story would lead to. But once she claimed that was the case, that took it from consensual to rape, and law enforcement took it from there. I genuinely believe the lie got WAYYYY bigger than she ever imagined it would, and she quickly found herself at a point of no return where she felt locked into the lie. But that **** near resulted in a good friend of mine rotting away in a cage for the rest of his life. So I will despise her with every ounce of my being as long as I live.
 
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