Notice of Allegations *update*

[3FW]

Interesting that conventional wisdom does not have Haith or Shannon on the NCAAs call list. Hill and Hurtt definitely got calls, the others are a bit of a guess other than you know some hoops calls got quotes.

 

[Bigtip]

look, i dont know what all our roster numbers are exactly but I know that AG has mentioned prepping for reductions and playing at 80. IF we were at 80 last year AND we are taking 20 this year AND we still end up at 80 (with attrition, etc) THEN that would count as 5 scholly reductions

 

[rudebuddha]

We could have been at 70 scholarships last year, and it wouldn't factor into our future scholarship reductions.

Not true...

Miami has been working closely with the NCAA. The NCAA was told about the self imposed roster reduction and they will count it towards the final punishment. Golden is gonna Golden...

You speak with tremendous authority on the scholarship reduction aspect. Do you know with certainty that what you are saying is a fact because, admittedly, I'm not 100% certain on what I said? My comment was based on my own reading of the situation.

No, I'm not 100% certain. But if my man Golden says he's already been self imposing scholarship reduction then I choose to believe he's self imposed scholarship reduction and the NCAA has given the green light. I know Miami has been screwed by the NCAA in the past. I also know that the NCAA president came out and stated that Donna Shalala handled this investigation superbly and gave her glowing remarks. I also know that a conman who robbed millionaires out of a billion dollars and who is a heavyweight champion liar and thief conjured up complete BS to get the program in this mess. I also know that 12 players who were still on the team were investigated and only 9 were found to have received benefits to the tune of a measly $3500 and not a single one of them were kicked out of school completely. We're not talking about cars being bought and duffle bags stuffed with $250k here. We're talking about steak dinners, jerseys, and drinks on south beach. We're talking about typical recruiting type of ****. When all said and done I think Miami gets time served. Giving up 3 post season games, having a black cloud over the program for 2 years while the NCAA ran this witch hunt, and self imposing 5 scholarships a year for 2 years is enough for typical booster recruiting type of ****. I mean people aren't really going to tell us recruits aren't taken to steak dinners and given jerseys on these trips are they? The NCAA doesn't have ****. That's why they tried extorting information from former players because they know they don't have **** and Miami has self imposed tougher sanctions than they can even justify giving them with what little dirt they have.

I could be wrong but this is what I have gathered from this circus...

One thing we all tend to forget is the Pell Grant scandal. We had one of the worst examples of lack of institutional control ever in college football history and received a ONE YEAR BOWL BAN and scholarship reductions. There were 31 scholarship reductions and that's what really hurt.
We had Dan Morgan playing at Miami on an Academic Scholarship for christ's sake.

The Yahoo article suggests a lot of issue. I say suggest because very little has been proven. The biggest violation was the basketball one and the 10K payment and that was discounted and the player reinstated.

Let me give you a scenario: "in 1994, Tony Russell, a former UM academic advisor, pleaded guilty to helping more than 80 student athletes, 57 of whom were football players, falsify Pell Grant applications in exchange for kickbacks from the players themselves. The scandal dated all the way back to 1989 and secured more than $220,000 in federal grant money. Federal officials later said that Russell had engineered "perhaps the largest centralized fraud ... ever committed" in the history of the Pell Grant program.

In late 1995, the NCAA concluded that, in addition to the fraudulent Pell Grants facilitated by Russell, the university had also provided or allowed over $400,000 worth of other, improper payments to Miami football players. The NCAA also found that the university had failed to wholly implement its drug testing program, and permitted three football student-athletes to compete without being subject to the required disciplinary measures specified in the policy."

How we didn't get the death penalty over this scandal I don't know. I am and was ecstatic we got off so light.

The Pell grant scandal and the Uncle Luke issue compared to this current situation is like the Titanic compared to me capsizing a hobie cat on biscayne bay.

We've already gone above and beyond what we were punished with for the worst scandal in NCAA history.
We had a UM staffer organize federal fraud at unprecedented levels and 400K of admitted extra benefits and received a one year bowl ban and reductions.

We don't know what the NCAA can prove with the Shapiro investigation. What we do know is that we had something like 3500 in extra benefits, which are only extra benefits because the guy was a booster. We also have a number of players that were exonerated of any wrong doing including the 10K payment.

I'd bet anything that when all is said and done the amount of extra benefits comes nothing close to the 400K and pell grant fraud we were guilty of in the mid 90's, so how can the punishment be much worse or any worse?

Don't discount the 2 bowl bans we've self imposed. In foresight, hindsight and all sight, 2 bowl bans is a HUGE penalty and we self imposed it. We've already made contrition and fallen on our sword any more punishment is strictly done out of spite.

 

[Picksix]

We are preparing our roster for reductions but nothing we have down will count. We will get credit for skipping the bowls but that is it.

So Golden says it will count and you say it won't? I'll take Goldens word over yours thanks...

None of you have any clue what is going on behind closed between Miami and the NCAA.

Where did Al make a public comment on that topic? I'd be surprised if he did given the strict mandate from UM against public comment on the subject.

Al stated in an interview that he is already factoring in self imposed scholarship limits in this recruiting class. Don't know why he would do that if the NCAA isn't going to count it?

11-20-12 The Miami Herald

Less than an hour later, when Golden met with reporters following practice, the coach indicated he has already “factored in” scholarship reductions on National Signing Day in February. “I’m not allowed to comment on anything relative to the investigation,” Golden said, “but I’m already factoring it in to my [scholarship] count. They’re going to tell us, ultimately, but I’ve already started down that road of not taking a full group.”

 

[Canesfan1899]

We are preparing our roster for reductions but nothing we have down will count. We will get credit for skipping the bowls but that is it.

So Golden says it will count and you say it won't? I'll take Goldens word over yours thanks...

None of you have any clue what is going on behind closed between Miami and the NCAA.

Where did Al make a public comment on that topic? I'd be surprised if he did given the strict mandate from UM against public comment on the subject.

Al stated in an interview that he is already factoring in self imposed scholarship limits in this recruiting class. Don't know why he would do that if the NCAA isn't going to count it?

11-20-12 The Miami Herald

Less than an hour later, when Golden met with reporters following practice, the coach indicated he has already “factored in” scholarship reductions on National Signing Day in February. “I’m not allowed to comment on anything relative to the investigation,” Golden said, “but I’m already factoring it in to my [scholarship] count. They’re going to tell us, ultimately, but I’ve already started down that road of not taking a full group.”

Thanks, I knew I read that somewhere.

 

[Consigliere]

We are preparing our roster for reductions but nothing we have down will count. We will get credit for skipping the bowls but that is it.

So Golden says it will count and you say it won't? I'll take Goldens word over yours thanks...

None of you have any clue what is going on behind closed between Miami and the NCAA.

Where did Al make a public comment on that topic? I'd be surprised if he did given the strict mandate from UM against public comment on the subject.

Al stated in an interview that he is already factoring in self imposed scholarship limits in this recruiting class. Don't know why he would do that if the NCAA isn't going to count it?

11-20-12 The Miami Herald

Less than an hour later, when Golden met with reporters following practice, the coach indicated he has already “factored in” scholarship reductions on National Signing Day in February. “I’m not allowed to comment on anything relative to the investigation,” Golden said, “but I’m already factoring it in to my [scholarship] count. They’re going to tell us, ultimately, but I’ve already started down that road of not taking a full group.”

Because only a moron would not plan for sanctions. He factored it in to put us in the best situation once they hit.

The self-imposed post season bans are done in good faith by the school.

The playing with 79/80 (-5 or -6) under the total amount is just for preparation for some type of punishment.

I don't think that means we completed year 1 of -5 total scholarships. I think he is preparing to be at -5 scholarships.

 

[Picksix]

We are preparing our roster for reductions but nothing we have down will count. We will get credit for skipping the bowls but that is it.

So Golden says it will count and you say it won't? I'll take Goldens word over yours thanks...

None of you have any clue what is going on behind closed between Miami and the NCAA.

Where did Al make a public comment on that topic? I'd be surprised if he did given the strict mandate from UM against public comment on the subject.

Al stated in an interview that he is already factoring in self imposed scholarship limits in this recruiting class. Don't know why he would do that if the NCAA isn't going to count it?

11-20-12 The Miami Herald

Less than an hour later, when Golden met with reporters following practice, the coach indicated he has already “factored in” scholarship reductions on National Signing Day in February. “I’m not allowed to comment on anything relative to the investigation,” Golden said, “but I’m already factoring it in to my [scholarship] count. They’re going to tell us, ultimately, but I’ve already started down that road of not taking a full group.”

Because only a moron would not plan for sanctions. He factored it in to put us in the best situation once they hit.

The self-imposed post season bans are done in good faith by the school.

The playing with 79/80 (-5 or -6) under the total amount is just for preparation for some type of punishment.

I don't think that means we completed year 1 of -5 total scholarships. I think he is preparing to be at -5 scholarships.

Our fans all B!tched and Moaned for self imposing bowl bans and now only a moron wouldn't plan for sanctions? Guess we have a fanbase full of morons then. Also, there are plenty of people stating that self imposing scholarship limits won't count? So if they won't count then why would Golden be taking a proactive approach at all? Guess those same morons still have no clue huh?

Like I said, I'll take Goldens word over anybodies on here because nobody knows what's going on behind closed doors between Miami and the NCAA. If the man is saying he's taking a proactive approach then I will choose to believe the NCAA will indeed count it...

 

[Consigliere]

So Golden says it will count and you say it won't? I'll take Goldens word over yours thanks...

None of you have any clue what is going on behind closed between Miami and the NCAA.

Where did Al make a public comment on that topic? I'd be surprised if he did given the strict mandate from UM against public comment on the subject.

Al stated in an interview that he is already factoring in self imposed scholarship limits in this recruiting class. Don't know why he would do that if the NCAA isn't going to count it?

11-20-12 The Miami Herald

Less than an hour later, when Golden met with reporters following practice, the coach indicated he has already “factored in” scholarship reductions on National Signing Day in February. “I’m not allowed to comment on anything relative to the investigation,” Golden said, “but I’m already factoring it in to my [scholarship] count. They’re going to tell us, ultimately, but I’ve already started down that road of not taking a full group.”

Because only a moron would not plan for sanctions. He factored it in to put us in the best situation once they hit.

The self-imposed post season bans are done in good faith by the school.

The playing with 79/80 (-5 or -6) under the total amount is just for preparation for some type of punishment.

I don't think that means we completed year 1 of -5 total scholarships. I think he is preparing to be at -5 scholarships.

Our fans all B!tched and Moaned for self imposing bowl bans and now only a moron wouldn't plan for sanctions? Guess we have a fanbase full of morons then. Also, there are plenty of people stating that self imposing scholarship limits won't count? So if they won't count then why would Golden be taking a proactive approach at all? Guess those same morons still have no clue huh?

Like I said, I'll take Goldens word over anybodies on here because nobody knows what's going on behind closed doors between Miami and the NCAA. If the man is saying he's taking a proactive approach then I will choose to believe the NCAA will indeed count it...

No...You are combining issues. This can't be so difficult.

1. Someone is saying that we self-imposed 1 year of scholarship reductions, basically saying we played 1 year at -5 so we served one year of scholarship reductions. Not sure if you can do this.

and

2. The other group is saying, we're preparing for POTENTIAL SCHOLARSHIP reductions but we haven't served one year yet. There is nothing wrong with this and staying ahead instead of getting hit quickly we prepare over time.

Oh and we do have a fan base full of morons.

 

[Bigtip]

there would be no need to prep for reductions unless we could take the credit immediately IMO. scholly reductions USUALLY do not go into effect immediately so you would have a year to implement them. no need to do that year early unless you are getting credit

 

[Consigliere]

there would be no need to prep for reductions unless we could take the credit immediately IMO. scholly reductions USUALLY do not go into effect immediately so you would have a year to implement them. no need to do that year early unless you are getting credit

The thing I don't get is let's say they serves us on March 1 and after 90 days or whatever we agree to XYZ Scholarship Reductions. Does that mean they start THIS YEAR IN THE 2013 SEASON (i.e. we can only have 80 guys total on scholarship for 2013) or since we got it after NSD (or some arbitrary date) we can start the total of 80 in 2014 SEASON.

I can answer the questions or give my opinions if I have all the facts, I don't.

 

[Picksix]

Where did Al make a public comment on that topic? I'd be surprised if he did given the strict mandate from UM against public comment on the subject.

Al stated in an interview that he is already factoring in self imposed scholarship limits in this recruiting class. Don't know why he would do that if the NCAA isn't going to count it?

11-20-12 The Miami Herald

Less than an hour later, when Golden met with reporters following practice, the coach indicated he has already “factored in” scholarship reductions on National Signing Day in February. “I’m not allowed to comment on anything relative to the investigation,” Golden said, “but I’m already factoring it in to my [scholarship] count. They’re going to tell us, ultimately, but I’ve already started down that road of not taking a full group.”

Because only a moron would not plan for sanctions. He factored it in to put us in the best situation once they hit.

The self-imposed post season bans are done in good faith by the school.

The playing with 79/80 (-5 or -6) under the total amount is just for preparation for some type of punishment.

I don't think that means we completed year 1 of -5 total scholarships. I think he is preparing to be at -5 scholarships.

Our fans all B!tched and Moaned for self imposing bowl bans and now only a moron wouldn't plan for sanctions? Guess we have a fanbase full of morons then. Also, there are plenty of people stating that self imposing scholarship limits won't count? So if they won't count then why would Golden be taking a proactive approach at all? Guess those same morons still have no clue huh?

Like I said, I'll take Goldens word over anybodies on here because nobody knows what's going on behind closed doors between Miami and the NCAA. If the man is saying he's taking a proactive approach then I will choose to believe the NCAA will indeed count it...

No...You are combining issues. This can't be so difficult.

1. Someone is saying that we self-imposed 1 year of scholarship reductions, basically saying we played 1 year at -5 so we served one year of scholarship reductions. Not sure if you can do this.

and

2. The other group is saying, we're preparing for POTENTIAL SCHOLARSHIP reductions but we haven't served one year yet. There is nothing wrong with this and staying ahead instead of getting hit quickly we prepare over time.

Oh and we do have a fan base full of morons.

I see what you're saying. I know the roster wasn't at 85 this past season and if anybody could sell a year already counting it would be Al "muthafocking" Golden. Having said that I'm not sure the NCAA would buy that after hauling in 33 players in the past class even though the roster was under 85.

I still think Miami gets time served when all is said and done. I don't think the NCAA has enough to drop the hammer on us.

As for the fanbase... I remember the plane flying flying over the OB that read "FROM NATIONAL CHAMPS TO NATIONAL CHUMPS, THANKS BUTCH" shortly after Miami had just dodged the death penalty and was playing D1 CFB with one hand tied behind their backs. The fans were calling for the mans head while he was stockpiling the greatest collection of football talent CFB has EVER seen. Yeah, it's pretty clear some of Miami's fans are on the level of full ******...

 

[Consigliere]

Pick6,

What about time served for having Coker and RS as coaches?

How about we vacate EVERY win from 2004 till 2011?

 

[Picksix]

there would be no need to prep for reductions unless we could take the credit immediately IMO. scholly reductions USUALLY do not go into effect immediately so you would have a year to implement them. no need to do that year early unless you are getting credit

The thing I don't get is let's say they serves us on March 1 and after 90 days or whatever we agree to XYZ Scholarship Reductions. Does that mean they start THIS YEAR IN THE 2013 SEASON (i.e. we can only have 80 guys total on scholarship for 2013) or since we got it after NSD (or some arbitrary date) we can start the total of 80 in 2014 SEASON.

I can answer the questions or give my opinions if I have all the facts, I don't.

The scholarship reductions would go into effect in 2014.

 

[Bigtip]

I dont think we get time served (even though that may be the fair thing). I am confident that we are done with bowl bans. I think/hope we get around 12 total schollys lost over 3 years AND that we can apply 5 of those for 2013 so that there would only be 2 more recruiting classes impacted (4 less in 2014 and 3 less in 2015 for example)

 

[Picksix]

Pick6,

What about time served for having Coker and RS as coaches?

How about we vacate EVERY win from 2004 till 2011?

Don't even get me started. The biggest BS to come out of all this **** was the whole time these two clowns were running the program into the ground they were both getting credit for running such a clean program and now this. Go focking figure! Paying millions to bums then having to endure the wrath of the NCAA at the end of it all?

 

[Picksix]

I dont think we get time served (even though that may be the fair thing). I am confident that we are done with bowl bans. I think/hope we get around 12 total schollys lost over 3 years AND that we can apply 5 of those for 2013 so that there would only be 2 more recruiting classes impacted (4 less in 2014 and 3 less in 2015 for example)

At most the NCAA was only going to hit Miami with two bowl bans. Giving up two bowls and an ACC championship game will offset some of those scholarships. Miami also cooperated fully, suspended players, paid all monies owed, and has dealt with a black cloud over the program through it all. Time served...

 

[whoopingcane]

FTM - Time Served.

 

[rudebuddha]

I dont think we get time served (even though that may be the fair thing). I am confident that we are done with bowl bans. I think/hope we get around 12 total schollys lost over 3 years AND that we can apply 5 of those for 2013 so that there would only be 2 more recruiting classes impacted (4 less in 2014 and 3 less in 2015 for example)

At most the NCAA was only going to hit Miami with two bowl bans. Giving up two bowls and an ACC championship game will offset some of those scholarships. Miami also cooperated fully, suspended players, paid all monies owed, and has dealt with a black cloud over the program through it all. Time served...

I wonder what happens if the NCAA says they could only prove a little and not a lot meaning the guys suspended last year for a few free dinners.
What if they only give us a one year bowl ban?
Last time I checked there was this big Orange and Green wall of silence and the NCAA was having a hard time proving anything.
I can't imagine the NCAA can just take every word out of a convicted liar's mouth as truth because there are receipts and pictures.
There would have to be corroborating evidence.
From the start I thought, "wow, if they can prove everything then we are ****ed, but what is their evidence?"
What if 99% turns out to be unsubstantiated supposition?
I'm just rambling here but I believe that without corroborating evidence then the allegations are just that...allegations.

 

[Picksix]

I dont think we get time served (even though that may be the fair thing). I am confident that we are done with bowl bans. I think/hope we get around 12 total schollys lost over 3 years AND that we can apply 5 of those for 2013 so that there would only be 2 more recruiting classes impacted (4 less in 2014 and 3 less in 2015 for example)

At most the NCAA was only going to hit Miami with two bowl bans. Giving up two bowls and an ACC championship game will offset some of those scholarships. Miami also cooperated fully, suspended players, paid all monies owed, and has dealt with a black cloud over the program through it all. Time served...

I wonder what happens if the NCAA says they could only prove a little and not a lot meaning the guys suspended last year for a few free dinners.
What if they only give us a one year bowl ban?
Last time I checked there was this big Orange and Green wall of silence and the NCAA was having a hard time proving anything.
I can't imagine the NCAA can just take every word out of a convicted liar's mouth as truth because there are receipts and pictures.
There would have to be corroborating evidence.
From the start I thought, "wow, if they can prove everything then we are ****ed, but what is their evidence?"
What if 99% turns out to be unsubstantiated supposition?
I'm just rambling here but I believe that without corroborating evidence then the allegations are just that...allegations.

We'll see... IMO if the NCAA does try and drop the hammer then Miami has themselves in a perfect position to fight them tooth and nail in court. Play nice until it's time not to play nice.

 

[CanesAreAble]

FTM - Time Served.

This.

We skate.