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My singular wish for this team and program going forward

RaiseCane said:
Amen. There is a way to promote the program and players without looking like an all hype, no substance outfit. You know what would show fans and people that we want to be the old Miami - come out and say that we're going to put the turnover chain and TD rings away until we feel like the program is meeting the Miami standard. If that means it's in the game against UVA, great, if that means it's not until next year, great, but the substance has to come before the hype. This isn't some names off the jersey thing like Randy did, that was stupid. This is saying that in order to own the "swag" of old Miami, you have to play that way first.

Or stop showing videos of Shaq and Pinckney traveling to the game looking like rock stars because right now, they aren't. I want these guys to have fun, sure, but guess what, when the game was on the line this week, with our "stronger" unit on the field, those guys didn't make a play to change the game. And then after the game, to hear Shaq and Pinckney say stuff like they didn't have the urgency they needed, or that the locker room isn't doom and gloom... to me, just not the right tone. We just lost a Coastal division game, our 2nd game on the road, and I'm angry, so let's hear some of that from our team leaders.
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Yes. Agree. Put away the turnover chain and rings; we look like yo-yos with those made-for-tv celebrations of certain plays and then losing the game.
 
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Empirical Cane said:
maybe...just maybe...the myth of "Miami has better athletes but keeps losing" is better stated, ""Miami has roughly the same athletes as most other programs they face..."

add in recruiting fails...not right fit coaching...bad luck (that makes ITSELF)...

and you get the last 15 years or so.
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I think the recruiting fails has been less missing out on 5 stars, but rather completely ******** up evaluations. We have 4 stars that play like crap. We have 3 stars that wouldn't start at Wyoming. We need a coach with an eye for talent, AND an eye for solid work ethic. Butch was the last coach that understood this.
 
LuCane said:
We're essentially a 1st grade class. I'm ******* sick.
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I don't really disagree with anything you said but at the same time understand the marketing Diaz was trying to do in getting kids excited to be at Miami. It definitely falls on deaf ears when you're losing though.
 
Seems like I saw about a zillion posts from January to August that basically said, “Manny says all the right things.”

Bottom line is that nobody cares what you say if you don’t win.
 
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305to954 said:
Highly appreciate it Bro..I actually took some time on the last few lol
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In this 0-2 world , you put perspective on the situation. Like the rest of us. We want an undefeated season but reality usually tells us we need to be forged by fire. Go Canes!!!!
 
LuCane said:
Did it this way because you've been thoughtful and deserve a thoughtful and precise response. Point by point.


You're generalizing, though. There were tons of people and even full threads about how we never roll UNC at Chapel Hill. But, when you watch the game and see what we should have done from jump in the running game, it hurts. We ended up with 25 points. Our defense lost focus, too.

You agree with selling more than producing? We disagree. You can sell your vision without going too far before proving anything. Seems most fans agree they're tired of the imbalance.


You don't see a more talented roster than UNC? What ACC teams, outside of Clemson, do you see with more talent than us? No one is talking about dominating. We're talking about taking an equal or plus talent comparison to our opponents and winning games.

If you're going to talk a big game, you have to back it up. And, as many have said, we'd actually prefer the order is first back it up, then talk it up.
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Yo Lu, I understand you have to make you're point but let's admit the kid came in with a legit perspective. You brought the best out of him. Kudos on the thread....

* Just reread post. You did give him props at the beginning.:dbc:
 
LuCane said:
Like I said, there's a fine line. He's gotta bring those details to the field, as you said. ****, just bring the details to the Special Teams unit. We'll get some juice from that.
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Good ST's play would have won us those 2 games, and we would be top 20 . Guaranteed....
 
I agree completely, my question is what coaches or players have been dancing before performing on the field? That’s all external ****, in fact I’d argue the coaches and players have been much harder on us than the fans, until we lost of course then the fans overreact the other direction. It’s the culture of idolization. We overhype and then burn it down when our inevitable exaggerated expectations aren’t achieved, and then the cycle repeats.
 
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NVA CANE said:
Hyping and over selling are two completely different things. Lu is spot on and Diaz looks like a clown right now with all the talk and the TD ring.

Just win some ******* games and actually looke prepared. His whole TNM (The New Miami) is getting thrown back at him and rightfully so cause of how we played and lost our first two games.

He’s veering close to used car salesman status. Once you lose your rep the **** is over.

Just win and until you do, shut the **** up.
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His quotes around getting rid of disease, culture changes, gonna sign/keep guys who want to be miami hurricanes, etc are all eerily similar to what a a former used car salesman we used to have used to say.
 
LuCane said:
It'll stop when it's not true. If you don't like facts (like players who make it to the NFL), compare rosters. I understand your tendency to try to be a contrarian. By all means. It makes for good discussions sometimes.

In this case, you're once again partly talking about something separate from the point of the thread: we need more substance in relation to the hype and marketing. And, there's a grey area there. We need some hype and morale. I think we're out of balance right now.

If we were 1-1 right now, I'd better see your point. We dropped a horrendous game in UNC with two weeks to prepare for them. No moral victory will make that right. That's not doom and gloom. It's disappointment. Now we move forward.
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The thing is, you can take his previous post and just change the coaches/players names and just copy/paste it for the last 15 years.
 
LIVE VIEW INTO OUR MIAMI HURRICANES PRACTICE
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LuCane said:
It'll stop when it's not true. If you don't like facts (like players who make it to the NFL), compare rosters. I understand your tendency to try to be a contrarian. By all means. It makes for good discussions sometimes.

In this case, you're once again partly talking about something separate from the point of the thread: we need more substance in relation to the hype and marketing. And, there's a grey area there. We need some hype and morale. I think we're out of balance right now.

If we were 1-1 right now, I'd better see your point. We dropped a horrendous game in UNC with two weeks to prepare for them. No moral victory will make that right. That's not doom and gloom. It's disappointment. Now we move forward.
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I think it goes a little farther than that. I doubt any would dispute that it requires talent. But most overlook how we acquired it. We've made our business by developing players into the talent we needed. Getting 3*s to play like 4*s, getting 4*s to play like 5*s. We've gotten away or payed lip service to that. That's supported by your comment ("like players who make it to the NFL") which I've noticed more frequently over the past 10-15 years. Many of those that made it were considered jags or merely serviceable but have had their best years after they've moved on.

Just look at the at the composition of the staff of the current staff. It doesn't feel like it's set up as a development staff. And development affects game preparedness. We're too young and inexperienced at too many spots. It's OK to have young coaches at some spots but they have to be surrounded and supported by experienced coaches that can aid in their own development.

Sometimes I LOL at the reaction that would have happened if the internet existed after the "Hail Flutie" pass. And this was with a staff that was not of JJ's choosing. But he made the changes.
 
1LuvCane said:
Yo Lu, I understand you have to make you're point but let's admit the kid came in with a legit perspective. You brought the best out of him. Kudos on the thread....

* Just reread post. You did give him props at the beginning.:dbc:
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I did. We even PM'd. He's a good dude. I appreciate the discussion, always. That's what this message board is for...
 
Awsi Dooger said:
Priceless. Absolutely priceless. Unintentionally priceless

You attempted to criticize him but have no clue that you praised him profusely.

Generalizing is what works. Generalizing is the truth and the light year after year. The foolish method is to nitpick one player after another and one scheme after another and one replay after another. That lends to nothing but excuses and rationalizations and adjustments...a complete brutalization of the big picture.

Power ratings are the greatest generalization of all time. Newflash: when they report season after season that the Canes are a few points superior to their divisional opponents -- and therefore own virtually no margin for error whatsoever -- that is the reality of the matter. That is how it plays out. The tunnel vision analysts who rely on obsessive details and specifics spit out the preposterous summaries that we are miles superior to our opponents. That's what makes the offseason around here such a comedy act...year after year.

The people who focus on specifics view an NFL player vs. a Non-NFL Player as 1 vs. 0. There are lists of that type desperately propped here multiple times per year. The people who sharply rely on generalizations realize that is hilarious ignorance. The fringe NFL players are barely above the ones who don't make it. That is demonstrated by all the cuts made in the final week of preseason. Vincent Taylor is touted by Dolphins fans as a budding star. Then he's cut and remains unclaimed for days, before bumped to the Buffalo practice squad. Rinse and repeat that dynamic all over the league.

As I mentioned a week or two ago, it is easily understood if you look at numerical player power ratings such as the ones from Ourlads. An NFL player might own a 3.83 rating on their system while a guy who doesn't survive the final cut is 3.59. And that relationship is almost identical to the power ratings gap team to team. Small edges of that type throughout the roster are hardly equivalent to trump card dominance. One special skill position player can overcome slight deficits at several other positions.

It is not 1 vs. 0. It is the logical distribution of those 3.83 types in a league with randomly 32 teams and randomly 53 man rosters. If you dropped to 26 teams and 40 players -- like my youth -- then there would be no room for the 3.83 types. And so forth.

I don't know why I bother with this stuff. If and when we attain elite talent again it won't matter what the coach or athletic department is hyping in the offseason. Those old Canes who danced second would have howled at any concern regarding the public relations department. When we have elite talent again there will be no need to insult people with glowing reviews of Jon Ford.
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You know **** well I'm not going to address your tangent with the same respect I gave the kid. He was actually mostly on the topic and weaved in his opinions, which I addressed - point by point and we continued on PM. The generalizing comment to him was about a single point he made and that I quoted. Not about ignoring historical trends. But, by all means, write out all your other thoughts.
 
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LuCane said:
We're essentially a 1st grade class. I'm ******* sick.
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I'm sure many has some analytical chart somewhere that substituting gold rings and chains for gold stars increases performance.
 
My one reason for some guarded optimism is that Manny seems like an analytical type of guy who is results oriented. He made needed adjustments on his defense when they had to be made that produced positive results. As head coach (though different role) I am hoping he takes the same approach to making needed changes even if making personnel changes, sitting certain guys, etc. He is pretty smart and I think knows what is needed. If it seems obvious to us that special teams need a revamp I am sure it is obvious to him. I would not pay too much attention to what he says in the media to fluff up players or staff.
 
scrantoncane said:
I know you liked Hall a lot coming in. So did I - thought he was one of the hardest hitters I remembered seeing at the HS level. Seemed fearless.

He is playing slow and timid. Always a step behind. Never looking to get involved in group tackles.

I saw him get aggressive on a few safety blitzes, but he never got home.

Crossing my fingers that Bolden brings the skill set I think he will. If so, it’ll allow us to shuffle other guys around in the secondary and maybe find some combination that works.
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This might be what bothers me the most. Hall is uber talented and so are a bunch of guys from that 2018 class but only a couple are real contributors. Why is that? Why can every team in America bring in guys that play right away and are effective, but we outside of a few we can’t?
 
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