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Leonard Taylor committing 8/6

Cribby said:
This crossed my mind too, we didn’t recruit him , at least I’m pretty sure we didn’t. Hello @Liberty City El. I’m almost positive he never received an offer and this was debated here.
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Facts.

We didn't recruit him & never offered, Richt didn't want him.

His "beef" with Gil got overplayed on the board because it wasn't really a big deal, just some teenagers going at it over stupid shìt, it was literally years ago & neither one of them cares.

He without doubt would have committed if we offered him.
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
Yeah, Cribby and I have PM'd about this possibility.

I want to be optimistic. It is POSSIBLE. If it is truly being considered, I'd be willing to bet that conversations have ALREADY transpired.

Think about it this way. Mr. Ishmael has FIVE KIDS. I don't know if Jabari is the only one who is/will be a 4-star football talent, but I would certainly imagine that the Ishmael family is grateful to be able to be able to send FIVE KIDS to UM for free (assuming, of course, that the kids WANT to go to UM). Three years ago, if Mr. Ishmael had no idea whether Jabari would ever be good enough to get a D-1 football scholarship, I could imagine that the family would definitely be planning to use tuition remission to put Jabari through college.

Three years later, there are more options, for sure. So if tuition remission is still on the table, there are still a few conversations to be held as to room & board, books, and other fees. Hey, maybe Jabari can rush a fraternity and move into a house as a freshman.

That is all. Let's not put all our eggs in the "tuition remission" basket. Let's not assume we know everything about what the Ishmaels want to do here. Let's just be happy if it happens this way.
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hoops156 said:
also in this scenario, he'd be a reg student not on athletic ship, how does that work with the extra benefits that athletes get (which is paid for by the athletes ship -- training table, etc.)? they get more meals than normal students paying room and board and have access to the special nutritional stuff. its not his job to give up a well earned ship. thats on the coaches to make it work.
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Apparently, since the NCAA changes in 2014 after they were getting pressured about hungry DI athletes, restrictions on walk-ons receiving meals have been lifted (source) (second source). And, at least according to one source, the level on "on-campus support" (whatever that means) is the same for a PWO as for scholarship athletes (per this source). This makes sense, as I couldn't imagine (from a liability and PR perspective) a university not providing access to training/medical for a student-athlete participating in athletics (and especially P-5 football).

So it looks like the tuition remission vs. scholarship difference is a matter of $$ for room and board, books, any other stipends provided to scholarship athletes that may not be available to PWOs, and potentially student fees. And unless I am missing something, after a year UM can put him on scholarship without spending an IC (at which point he gets all the same benefits as any other scholarship athlete for the remainder of his time at UM).

I would understand if a recruit like Ishmael doesn't want to do it, though, and insists on the scholarship. At the end of the day, as long as coaches and staff are clear on where everyone stands and how they feel about him as a recruit, there's no harm in exploring it as an option (and I'm sure the staff is/has done just that).
 
Fawk_U Haters said:
What about our kicker croot? If he hasn't taken an "OV" nor does Manny do an in home would that count for "not recruited" if he has taken unofficial visits? I know it's a risk with the UNC smoke, but maybe he can be talked into blueshirt as well.
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Yes, it is certainly possible. One wonders if the "looking around" might have ORIGINATED from an attempt at a blueshirt conversation.

These things are tricky. There are reasons we never pulled it off previously.
 
Liberty City El said:
Facts.

We didn't recruit him & never offered, Richt didn't want him.

His "beef" with Gil got overplayed on the board because it wasn't really a big deal, just some teenagers going at it over stupid shìt, it was literally years ago & neither one of them cares.

He without doubt would have committed if we offered him.
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I thought so.


So maybe there’s a blueshirt we can use , that could explain @ripmaria saying we have a spot if we decide to take.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Yeah, Cribby and I have PM'd about this possibility.

I want to be optimistic. It is POSSIBLE. If it is truly being considered, I'd be willing to bet that conversations have ALREADY transpired.

Think about it this way. Mr. Ishmael has FIVE KIDS. I don't know if Jabari is the only one who is/will be a 4-star football talent, but I would certainly imagine that the Ishmael family is grateful to be able to be able to send FIVE KIDS to UM for free (assuming, of course, that the kids WANT to go to UM). Three years ago, if Mr. Ishmael had no idea whether Jabari would ever be good enough to get a D-1 football scholarship, I could imagine that the family would definitely be planning to use tuition remission to put Jabari through college.

Three years later, there are more options, for sure. So if tuition remission is still on the table, there are still a few conversations to be held as to room & board, books, and other fees. Hey, maybe Jabari can rush a fraternity and move into a house as a freshman.

That is all. Let's not put all our eggs in the "tuition remission" basket. Let's not assume we know everything about what the Ishmaels want to do here. Let's just be happy if it happens this way.
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This in a nutshell. Let’s see how it plays out.

However, if I’m Manny, I don’t insult them by asking if they’d be willing to do it. If they approach me about it because they know it’ll help the program then that’s ******* awesome but that’s the only way I would.

And I know it was just a hypothetical but just since I can answer it, he wouldn’t be able to live in a fraternity house as players can’t *formally* accept bids to fraternities, not to mention students rush in the spring of freshmen year and can’t live in houses (if said frat has one) until sophomore year.
 
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Liberty City El said:
Facts.

We didn't recruit him & never offered, Richt didn't want him.

His "beef" with Gil got overplayed on the board because it wasn't really a big deal, just some teenagers going at it over stupid shìt, it was literally years ago & neither one of them cares.

He without doubt would have committed if we offered him.
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Not disputing anything you said AT ALL.

Just asking a question - I get it if he wasn't a "priority", but given his ability, and given our need, why didn't UM at least "stay in touch" and simply continue to recruit the kid as a Plan B (I apologize for any judgment associated with this).

Do you have any idea as to whether this was one of those "Manny wanted him, Richt didn't" issues that we HEAR about, but never get any specifics about the disagreements? I know this is can be chalked up to "former staff" now, but Manny IS still around.

Would love to inject an "SEC-starter" type talent into the CB room immediately, glad to hear that any past beefs (Frierson, UM non-offer) have been squashed.
 
Ok i'm calling it now....
-- 3 blue shirts -- Ishmail, Kicker, Wilson
-- Dropping Collins
-- Ending with:
Leonard Taylor
Jacory Brooks/or QB
Jason Marshall
Terrence Lewis
Corey Collier
Chase Smith
Breshard Smith
Marcus Tate/Mims/Leigh
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
Yeah. You and I cruise along, thinking we are on top of this all, and then suddenly we start to see Manny's 3D chess moves.

It was more obvious back in the day, like when Butch figured out that Andre King still had football eligibility remaining. These days the rules are a lot tickier and tackier.

We've gone from "never took a blueshirt" to maybe taking a bunch within a 365-day period.

I respect the hustle.
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Love him, hate him, or somewhere in between, you really have to respect Manny's hustle in trying to take advantage of every rule or rule change to get a competitive edge. Blue shirts, transfer portal, eligibility waivers, tuition remission, etc... he's working.
 
ThomasG954 said:
This in a nutshell. Let’s see how it plays out.

However, if I’m Manny, I don’t insult them by asking if they’d be willing to do it. If they approach me about it because they know it’ll help the program then that’s ******* awesome but that’s the only way I would.

And I know it was just a hypothetical but just since I can answer it, he wouldn’t be able to live in a fraternity house as players can’t *formally* accept bids to fraternities, not to mention students rush in the spring of freshmen year and can’t live in houses (if said frat has one) until sophomore year.
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1. While that sounds great, I would just wonder how much the kids know about the NCAA IC rules.
2. **** rule changes, things have changed since I was at UM.
 
Fawk_U Haters said:
Ok i'm calling it now....
-- 3 blue shirts -- Ishmail, Kicker, Wilson
-- Dropping Collins
-- Ending with:
Leonard Taylor
Jacory Brooks/or QB
Jason Marshall
Terrence Lewis
Corey Collier
Chase Smith
Breshard Smith
Marcus Tate/Mims/Leigh
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**** will literally freeze before the day Nick Saban lets us flip two of their top SFL targets (brooks, Marshall)
 
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No_Fly_Zone said:
So it looks like the tuition remission vs. scholarship difference is a matter of $$ for room and board, books, any other stipends provided to scholarship athletes that may not be available to PWOs, and potentially student fees. And unless I am missing something, after a year UM can put him on scholarship without spending an IC (at which point he gets all the same benefits as any other scholarship athlete for the remainder of his time at UM).
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Yes (basically) and Yes.

I mentioned earlier, there may be a price differential that needs to be paid on "training table meal plan" vs. "20 meal plan". But, yes, the scholarship athlete vs. PWO athlete distinction has been removed on issues such as medical care, training, nutritional supplements, and athletic clothing, so a PWO would not be required to "pay" for such items.

A lot of people aren't aware of the "books" issue. Essentially, the athletes give their class schedules to the Academic Support Director, and then the Athletic Department orders the books. The Bookstore has to stamp "Property of the Athletic Department" inside the books, and they can give them to the players. The players have to return the books at the end of each semester. One of our "probation" issues in the 1990s is that players were selling the books back to Book Horizons as "used" and keeping the money (extra benefits). So we had to come up with new policies to have institutional control over the process.

After 1 year, we should be able to go "full athletic scholarship" with no impact on the IC numbers.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
I love the Divine 9, and I was being a bit sarcastic, but it wouldn't be a horrible thing to see more "integration" in the larger social fraternities. Jimmy Johnson frowned on it, in general (fraternity membership), but it was more common back in the day. Ted Hendricks and Rick Barry are my alumni brothers.
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You a alumni kappa sigma?
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Not disputing anything you said AT ALL.

Just asking a question - I get it if he wasn't a "priority", but given his ability, and given our need, why didn't UM at least "stay in touch" and simply continue to recruit the kid as a Plan B (I apologize for any judgment associated with this).

Do you have any idea as to whether this was one of those "Manny wanted him, Richt didn't" issues that we HEAR about, but never get any specifics about the disagreements? I know this is can be chalked up to "former staff" now, but Manny IS still around.

Would love to inject an "SEC-starter" type talent into the CB room immediately, glad to hear that any past beefs (Frierson, UM non-offer) have been squashed.
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He was class of 2018 & we had limited spots, Richt at the time wanted a class that had continuity & were all together.

We had Al Blades Jr, Gil Frierson, DJ Ivey all committed at CB & were after the AH duo Surtain & Campbell.

We didn't pursue heavy because we had higher targets we were after & because he wasn't at Paradise, back then Richt wanted kids to participate in our camps & show that they were fully on board before we would go after them, but in Divaad's case he never got an invite.

We wound up signing Nigel Bethel for our final CB spot because we missed on the AH boys & were late in recruiting Asante Jr. Divaad just wasn't in the equation because we already had 3 Corners & only wanted certain guys at that 4th spot.
 
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Fawk_U Haters said:
Ok i'm calling it now....
-- 3 blue shirts -- Ishmail, Kicker, Wilson
-- Dropping Collins
-- Ending with:
Leonard Taylor
Jacory Brooks/or QB
Jason Marshall
Terrence Lewis
Corey Collier
Chase Smith
Breshard Smith
Marcus Tate/Mims/Leigh
Click to expand...


Just to be clear...

A Wilson blueshirt would put him in the 2021-2022 class.

Borregales/Ishmael blueshirts would put them in the 2022-2023 class.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Yes (basically) and Yes.

I mentioned earlier, there may be a price differential that needs to be paid on "training table meal plan" vs. "20 meal plan". But, yes, the scholarship athlete vs. PWO athlete distinction has been removed on issues such as medical care, training, nutritional supplements, and athletic clothing, so a PWO would not be required to "pay" for such items.

A lot of people aren't aware of the "books" issue. Essentially, the athletes give their class schedules to the Academic Support Director, and then the Athletic Department orders the books. The Bookstore has to stamp "Property of the Athletic Department" inside the books, and they can give them to the players. The players have to return the books at the end of each semester. One of our "probation" issues in the 1990s is that players were selling the books back to Book Horizons as "used" and keeping the money (extra benefits). So we had to come up with new policies to have institutional control over the process.

After 1 year, we should be able to go "full athletic scholarship" with no impact on the IC numbers.
Click to expand...

I doubt we're talking about much in the way of books. Most of these course ask for online resources or you have to subscribe to different sites for homework, etc. Pretty minimal investment in books these days....
 
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