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Hazing and Bullying

I'm definitely okay with the pranks and minor "hazing" in terms of paying for the vet's dinners (even though that makes no sense haha) and carrying the older guys pads and stuff like that. I think there is definitely a fine line between that kind of stuff and what Incognito was doing. I also think that people know exactly where the line is even though it may not be defined (if that makes any sense).

If anyone is questioning whether or not an act they did might have been stepping over that line, then they probably stepped over the line. Otherwise when teammates are having a good time messing with the rookies I think that is totally fair game, and more so, I believe it brings the team together and adds chemistry as crazy as that sounds. Those kinds of things bring the locker room closer together even though it would appear to do the opposite. Guys bond and share laughs over these kinds of things and I believe that kind of stuff is absolutely essential for teams to have.

Of course when a player steps over that fine, fine line then thats ****ed up. Theres obviously no question that Incognito is a bigot and was stepping way over the line in his treatment of Martin. Honestly it was just the extent of the harassment and the degree to which he went with the name calling. Teammates call each other pu55ies and stuff like that all the time in a joking manner, its a whole new ball game when he's doing it maliciously and being a douche 24/7 to this poor guy. It's really ****ed up how far he went with it and even more ****ed up that no teammates stood up for Martin and told Ignorantito to sit down and shut the **** up.

Anyways, hope that helps Chip.
 
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“The way it was explained was Jonathan Martin was kind of being a baby,” said University of Miami senior tight end Asante Cleveland. “But now that I’ve heard more of the story it seems like this was way past anybody’s perception. It really took a lot of courage for him to step up and take a stand for something that he knew was wrong. He should be commended for that.”
 
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dycane said:
Again, Icognito is a psychopath. And not just in terms of his rage. The guy is super weird and bipolar. He's got substance abuse issues, which magnify his imbalance. I wish I could elaborate on a few stories, but they implicate friends, so I won't. Sufficed to say, no one on here should even remotely support him. He's not a good guy and I can only imagine how bad he stalked and harassed Martin. He's the type of guy I despise most in this world -- dumb, juiced out bully who draws his self worth from intimidating and embarrassing weaker people. And not just players. When he's out, he tries to intimidate smaller, weaker people but then proceeds, like a b@tch, to kiss the *** of the guys who roll with hot chicks or own the bars/clubs. He treats support staff like sh@t, too, which is one of my biggest pet peaves. And no one is talking about the obvious -- what type of loser repeatedly milks others to cover his tabs, trips, and binges? Talk about a complete lack of self respect. You're a god **** millionaire and you're willingly taking $$$ from a rookie for a trip when the guy isn't even joining you? F@ck that guy. He'll be two bit bouncer within 3 years.
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But I read earlier that if you just punch him in the nose, he will go away? SMH at folks talking about this giant psycho like he was the kid in third grade that gave them a wedgie.
 
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Docholliday03 said:
I dont understand anyone backing Incognito. The guy has a history of just being a bad dude. Its amazing to me his teammates are backing him. I will never understand the hazing stuff either. I get the whole right of passage thing. Playing pratical jokes, having rookies/freshman dress up or sing. But thats about as far as it should go. I heard an old interview of Incognito talking about Tannehill and how he was gonna get a jet ski out of him as a rookie. That because he protects him on the field he said pretty much he felt entitled to it. And that he was gonna get the money out of him one way or another. Dude is just a ****, Martin shoulda whooped his ***.
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Yeah sure. Martin couldn't whoop Incognito's *** if he cut Incognitos arms off first.
 
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Chip, do you know if Martin kept a written account in his diary of everything that happened?

If he did, that could be bad for Incognito.
 
Bryden1207 said:
Firstly, this had nothing to do with the locker room atmosphere. Martin was not being hazed he was being bullied which is a HUGE difference.

Second, I would've blindsided Incognito with my helmet in the locker room if he had tried some **** like that on me. But as far as Martin, he should of stood up for himself. He is a grown *** man Incognito cant make him do **** if Martin did not want to do it.

Third, I felt like his teammates did not know how serious the situation was and to be honest I don't see what they could have done to stop Incognito from harassing him due to the fact no one can stop a bully from bulling someone without higher authority.

Finally, Incognito can go to **** and Martin is a freaking punk. Not because he didnt fight but because he did not stand up for himself and how he handled the situation terribly. Not only because he abandoned his team the way that he did but because he did not tell proper and higher authorities about the situation.
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Bull****. The kid's a rookie. He was in an extremely difficult position w/ incognito being a team leader, bc in his mind, the team supports this sort of abuse. And you cannot reasonably expect a rookie to stand up to the entire organization.

and ****, incognito is a known thug. Martin very well may have been concerened that Incognito would have blindsided him and potentially injured him, if he fought back.
 
nystateofmind said:
Vj4321 said:
I agree whole heartidly that Martin didn't need to fight incognito to deal with this issue. Not everyone uses violence as a means to resolve conflict and I applaud him for that for taking the higher road

However I think it's quite clear that the manner in which Martin chose to address this issue was unwise and very detrimental to not only himself but his team as a whole. Are you telling me he couldn't talk to any one higher in the organization who could help resolve the issue? Granted I don't know everything that went down behind the scenes in the locker room but there had to be a better way to approach this without making the dolphins the laughing stock of the league
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The Dolphins coaches are the ones who told Incognito to "toughen up" Martin. You think he felt safe going to them?
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Did you order the Code Red?

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Thank God for Martin being "soft" because this whole thing could have ended tragically with Incognito or multiple Dolphin players being dead if Martin wanted to show his "hard" side AKA FullMetal Jacket style.
 
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If this stuff is all true, it really highlights how bad the organization is. Sign a guy with well-documented character, substance, and anger management issues; draft a lineman they deem "too soft;" then ask the psycho to toughen him up. Full on potato.
 
A few rebuttals to what I have seen on here..

1) First off, yall are making Incognito seem like this champion UFC/MMA gorilla fighter who everyone in the locker room is afraid of. You notice you dont hear stories like this from guys like Pouncey. Im sure Pouncey played the "rookie" game but drew his line in the sand when things went too far. THATS how you earn respect.

2) To those who are saying he did the right thing by not standing up for himself because Incognito "was bigger and meaner then him" must have been in ZERO fights as a kid. Thats not how life works. EVERY MAN has to have a line. A poster said that Martin wasnt wired like that? HES A FOOTBALL PLAYER! Charles Barkley once said that it takes a psycho to play football and to fight MMA. So he IS wired like that. He just needs to man up. Does he think this will earn him points in locker room? LOL. Running and hiding in his closet until things blow over? This guy is gonna be the laughingstock of the NFL. And do you think his teammates are gonna have his back then?

3) Guys like Incognito is what makes the NFL what it is. How else do you think this guy has been in the league this long? Thats his edge. Being crazy, nasty, hard-nosed, blah blah. They are already talkin about cutting his a$$ so that shows you how much of an asset they think he is. If this were Pouncey or Paul Solai doing this, it would be a totally different story. Incog was an overachieiver whos clock has run out.

3)
 
It's all about culture. I am sure players in the Seattle, San Francisco, Green Bay, New Orleans, New England, Denver, and a handful of other successful organizations have their own hazing rituals, are clearly tough based on on-field results, but do not reach nearly the level of what happened here. Those places have veteran leadership which is entirely different than having veterans. You think Drew Breeze, Tom Brady, or Peyton Manning are involved with a bunch of this bull**** macho stuff? They care about people coming to work and winning and would have stepped in, told Incognito to shut the **** up or had him cut, and pulled Martin aside and told him what he needed to do and to stop being a *****.

In the end it's about getting results. You have to manage different people differently and regardless of whether or not Martin needed to toughen up, you have to look at what would accomplish getting him to perform best. Clearly it was not the way they went about it. I don't know enough about Philbin to know if he is lacking as a leader or if he is just dealing with the same **** Golden was: people not buying into a culture and a value system.
 
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dycane said:
Again, Icognito is a psychopath. And not just in terms of his rage. The guy is super weird and bipolar. He's got substance abuse issues, which magnify his imbalance. I wish I could elaborate on a few stories, but they implicate friends, so I won't. Sufficed to say, no one on here should even remotely support him. He's not a good guy and I can only imagine how bad he stalked and harassed Martin. He's the type of guy I despise most in this world -- dumb, juiced out bully who draws his self worth from intimidating and embarrassing weaker people. And not just players. When he's out, he tries to intimidate smaller, weaker people but then proceeds, like a b@tch, to kiss the *** of the guys who roll with hot chicks or own the bars/clubs. He treats support staff like sh@t, too, which is one of my biggest pet peaves. And no one is talking about the obvious -- what type of loser repeatedly milks others to cover his tabs, trips, and binges? Talk about a complete lack of self respect. You're a god **** millionaire and you're willingly taking $$$ from a rookie for a trip when the guy isn't even joining you? F@ck that guy. He'll be two bit bouncer within 3 years.
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But somehow every player they've interviewed that has played with him defends him
 
Not sure why this seems to be such a grand mystery.

What you had here is a confluence of extremes. Martin seems like a sheltered bit of a "delicate" soul, the type of guy who can easily be pushed around because of his persona. Incognito is the polar opposite. An out of control psychopath who takes everything too far, and is probably mentally unbalanced enough that most people around him have some kind of fear of him.

In the end, maybe there are things that Martin could have done before making such a public stink. It may also not have worked. It also occurs to me that the "teammates" are backing Incognito becuase he is still there, whereas Martin is not, and many of those same teammates may fear Incognito's mental disbalance and not want to be the ones to make waves and make an enemy, especially since many of them probably egged things on or even participated to some degree in the bullying, though not to the degree Incognito obviously did.

Seems to me the best solution is getting rid of Incognito. Dude is a psycho, and the classic "bad apple" that takes things too far and ruins it for everyone. There is always going to be some degree of hazing and "rights of passage" in sports, etc... but there are a few mental cases who cant control themselves and take things too far, and this cat seems to be the perfect example of it. The sooner the Dolphins and the league get rid of this idiot, the sooner things can go back to normal.
 
"Some guys are wired different" = some guys are soft

If you're that soft, maybe you shouldn't play in the NFL

Our society has an entitlement complex that is out of control. Not everyone is cut out for pro football and men shouldn't have to change their culture just so you can fit in. Our society promotes a full out assault on men and aggressive behavior. Football is the latest item on the chopping block. Men are not allowed to be men anymore, and most of us are so conditioned by this society that we can't see it.
 
DreCooL said:
I hate the word bully...dude is a 300 pound grown *** mam. If you can't tell somebody you're not gonna do something then walk away your soft. Plain and simple. Incognito is a **** yes, bit Martin let incognito get in his head. Weak minded individual right there.
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Not all people have strong minds and tough skins. That just the way it is. The role of civilized society is to somehow protect the softer minds like we protect other members of society with weaker traits. To somehow look at Martin as a weirdo and call him other names shows that some people, even here on this message board, will not come to defend their own relatives and family members if they are weak. Mentally or physically. Sad.
 
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