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Hazing and Bullying

Martin was being paid close to $7 million to play for the Dolphins. Regardless of how bad his feelings got hurt, I make it a policy never to feel sorry for a millionaire.
 
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Ernie McCracken said:
I think Martin is soft. The dolphins players are right
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While I completely agree Martin is soft, I don't think the players should come out publicly supporting Incognito. At worst, just give a "no comment". Fwiw I think the whole bullying (flavor of the month) thing is ridiculous.. but that's another story.
 
Football players say all kinds of awful things to each other that aren't meant the same way as when they are said in the regular world. Same as in the military.

Martin never once said Incognito was going too far. Martin participated in the pranks when they were done to other players. This whole thing smells like a scam to me.

Our culture is unbelievably soft.
 
I agree with most on here and can't believe Incognito is being backed by his teammates. I do agree that when you are a tight nit group, you have to be able to joke with with each other, pull pranks on one another, and just be able to give each other a hard time. People need to have thick skin in these environments. Have a sense of humor and be able to take a joke/prank.
With that being said, I do believe Incognito took it too far. Joking is one thing, threats are a bit different. I don't know how likely Incognito would have been to follow thru, but those were still threats. Like someone else posted on here, Martin should have just whooped his ***. Pretty sure it would have stopped then.
 
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Sandman211 said:
I agree with most on here and can't believe Incognito is being backed by his teammates. I do agree that when you are a tight nit group, you have to be able to joke with with each other, pull pranks on one another, and just be able to give each other a hard time. People need to have thick skin in these environments. Have a sense of humor and be able to take a joke/prank.
With that being said, I do believe Incognito took it too far. Joking is one thing, threats are a bit different. I don't know how likely Incognito would have been to follow thru, but those were still threats. Like someone else posted on here, Martin should have just whooped his ***. Pretty sure it would have stopped then.
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EXACTLY even if Incognito ended up beating Martin *** he would've still gotten respect and I bet he wouldn't been messed with again.
 
"It took more guts for Martin to do what he did than if he fought Incognito. Kid should be praised & not scorned by cavemen around sports."

Someone said this on Twitter and I couldn't agree more. There will be a lot of players on a lot of levels helped out by this.

Not everyone is a "tough guy".

Martin had never dealt with anything like this his whole life. He went to Stanford. His parents are Harvard lawyers. He was a nice kid who just wanted to be liked and fit in and not cause trouble. He was an easy target for a scumbag like Incognito.

The U.S. Marines recently instituted a very strict anti-hazing policy. Are Marines who got bullied also "pussies" as some have called Martin? Absolutely not. And neither is Martin.

A lot of people love to blame the victim. He deserves no blame whatsoever. The macho culture of the NFL doesn't make this okay in any way, shape or form.
 
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Bryden1207 said:
Sandman211 said:
I agree with most on here and can't believe Incognito is being backed by his teammates. I do agree that when you are a tight nit group, you have to be able to joke with with each other, pull pranks on one another, and just be able to give each other a hard time. People need to have thick skin in these environments. Have a sense of humor and be able to take a joke/prank.
With that being said, I do believe Incognito took it too far. Joking is one thing, threats are a bit different. I don't know how likely Incognito would have been to follow thru, but those were still threats. Like someone else posted on here, Martin should have just whooped his ***. Pretty sure it would have stopped then.
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EXACTLY even if Incognito ended up beating Martin *** he would've still gotten respect and I bet he wouldn't been messed with again.
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What's makes you sure that's the end of it? Why wouldn't it intensify, what would prevent Martin from bringing a gun to the facilities? What would stop Martin from bringing another type weapon? It's so easy to be tough on the internet and radio. And say "oh, whoop his ***, or fight you're a man." There are plenty of ways to defuse this situation in a none violent manner. Pranks and trashing talking on the field are completely different from someone who is constantly harassing you **** near every day of your life. Martin was wrong for not bringing this to the organization first. But "fighting it out" isn't the only answer let alone the right answer. We wouldn't accept "fighting it out" as the proper course of action at any job or school. Why should we accept it in a locker room? Because they walk around each other naked? Because they are "jocks" and "meat heads" who are incapable of solving their difference with none violent resolution?
 
I agree whole heartidly that Martin didn't need to fight incognito to deal with this issue. Not everyone uses violence as a means to resolve conflict and I applaud him for that for taking the higher road

However I think it's quite clear that the manner in which Martin chose to address this issue was unwise and very detrimental to not only himself but his team as a whole. Are you telling me he couldn't talk to any one higher in the organization who could help resolve the issue? Granted I don't know everything that went down behind the scenes in the locker room but there had to be a better way to approach this without making the dolphins the laughing stock of the league
 
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Vj4321 said:
I agree whole heartidly that Martin didn't need to fight incognito to deal with this issue. Not everyone uses violence as a means to resolve conflict and I applaud him for that for taking the higher road

However I think it's quite clear that the manner in which Martin chose to address this issue was unwise and very detrimental to not only himself but his team as a whole. Are you telling me he couldn't talk to any one higher in the organization who could help resolve the issue? Granted I don't know everything that went down behind the scenes in the locker room but there had to be a better way to approach this without making the dolphins the laughing stock of the league
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The Dolphins coaches are the ones who told Incognito to "toughen up" Martin. You think he felt safe going to them?
 
nystateofmind said:
"It took more guts for Martin to do what he did than if he fought Incognito. Kid should be praised & not scorned by cavemen around sports."

Someone said this on Twitter and I couldn't agree more. There will be a lot of players on a lot of levels helped out by this.

Not everyone is a "tough guy".

Martin had never dealt with anything like this his whole life. He went to Stanford. His parents are Harvard lawyers. He was a nice kid who just wanted to be liked and fit in and not cause trouble. He was an easy target for a scumbag like Incognito.

The U.S. Marines recently instituted a very strict anti-hazing policy. Are Marines who got bullied also "pussies" as some have called Martin? Absolutely not. And neither is Martin.

A lot of people love to blame the victim. He deserves no blame whatsoever. The macho culture of the NFL doesn't make this okay in any way, shape or form.
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I understand your point and I don't think I relayed that I am somehow blaming Martin for what happened. Also as Dghustla stated below, fighting isn't always the answer. Like I said, there is a difference between giving someone a hard time and hazing/bullying. I'm not sure if you've ever dealt with that yourself. But sometimes, if you punch the bully in the nose, he's gonna leave you alone. The fact that he went to Stanford and his parents are Harvard lawyers has nothing to do with the situation. I'm pretty sure there are some bullies who come from both Universities.
Having been in the military for 10yrs, I'm not so sure the "very strict anti-hazing policy" is the right thing to take care of the situation. These days, boot camp is pretty damned soft. that's not the right answer either. The military is becoming very soft in general. No more "Christmas" parties, "Halloween" parties...can't say something that may possibly offend someone.

BL, I agree that Martin is the victim. What Incognito did was wrong. However, there are always better ways to handle things. And, as Dghustla said, he should have gone to the administration when it got too much. Blindsiding everyone with this is not the way to handle it. Let the coaches be coaches and work it out with the team first.
 
Look, if someone had tried to pull what Incgonito did on me, I would clock him in the mouth. (Even though if the guy was Incognito's size I'd likely meet my demise, lol.)

But not everyone is wired like that. And I think society needs to be more understanding to that.

And the fact that he went to to Stanford and his parents are Harvard lawyers has everything to do with the situation. His HS coach said he'd never been around anyone like Incognito or Mike Pouncey. It was surely a culture shock.

As for going to the admin, it was the coaches who told Incognito to "toughen up" Martin. You think Martin felt safe going to them?
 
nystateofmind said:
Vj4321 said:
I agree whole heartidly that Martin didn't need to fight incognito to deal with this issue. Not everyone uses violence as a means to resolve conflict and I applaud him for that for taking the higher road

However I think it's quite clear that the manner in which Martin chose to address this issue was unwise and very detrimental to not only himself but his team as a whole. Are you telling me he couldn't talk to any one higher in the organization who could help resolve the issue? Granted I don't know everything that went down behind the scenes in the locker room but there had to be a better way to approach this without making the dolphins the laughing stock of the league
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The Dolphins coaches are the ones who told Incognito to "toughen up" Martin. You think he felt safe going to them?
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I find it very hard to believe that philbin knew the extent and severity of the problems or anyone else in that organization, who could see the bigger picture. Like I said, I don't know what was said or who knew what behind the scenes. But It's not like those texts and voicemails just randomly appeared. If I had a serious allegation of claims going beyond simple pranks, backed up by evidence which I have, and told the
organzanation internally and they still chose to do nothing, then my mind would be blown away. Had the coaches and management knew this they would have done something because their reputation and integrity would be at stake. That's why I feel Martin didn't fully disclose everything and handle the situation properly

Just my two cents
 
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rokulika said:
Chip whats it like working with Will Manso?
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It's awesome. He's a great mentor, an excellent teacher and one of the best anchors in Miami. I've been really lucky to work with him and have learned so much that will ultimately make me that much better as a reporter/journalist/anchor. Can't speak highly enough of him, one of the best in the biz
 
chipbrierre said:
rokulika said:
Chip whats it like working with Will Manso?
Click to expand...

It's awesome. He's a great mentor, an excellent teacher and one of the best anchors in Miami. I've been really lucky to work with him and have learned so much that will ultimately make me that much better as a reporter/journalist/anchor. Can't speak highly enough of him, one of the best in the biz
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He's a good follow on Twitter, too.
 
Lot of opinions that are a good read. Definitely informative. Thanks to everyone who contributed.
 
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nystateofmind said:
Look, if someone had tried to pull what Incgonito did on me, I would clock him in the mouth. (Even though if the guy was Incognito's size I'd likely meet my demise, lol.)

But not everyone is wired like that. And I think society needs to be more understanding to that.

And the fact that he went to to Stanford and his parents are Harvard lawyers has everything to do with the situation. His HS coach said he'd never been around anyone like Incognito or Mike Pouncey. It was surely a culture shock.

As for going to the admin, it was the coaches who told Incognito to "toughen up" Martin. You think Martin felt safe going to them?
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Ok, if that's the truth about the coaching staff then maybe going to them wouldn't be the best answer. However, they can't fix what they don't know. Maybe their idea of toughening him up was different than his.
However, I don't care what Martin's former coach said, I still fully believe that Stanford and Harvard are not immune to bullying and ******** in general. Maybe that is part of the problem. Maybe Martin's parents babied him so much and removed from every possibly stressful situation that he has never had to deal with adversity in his life. It's not Martin's fault and I'm not saying that is the problem. As I've said twice now, I believe Martin is the victim and Incognito was wrong.
 
Sandman211 said:
Maybe Martin's parents babied him so much and removed from every possibly stressful situation that he has never had to deal with adversity in his life.
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Or maybe Incognito is just an ******* who has no place in society?

I'm admittedly an idealist, but you'd think in 2013 there would be no tolerance for crap like that.
 
nystateofmind said:
Sandman211 said:
Maybe Martin's parents babied him so much and removed from every possibly stressful situation that he has never had to deal with adversity in his life.
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Or maybe Incognito is just an ******* who has no place in society?

I'm admittedly an idealist, but you'd think in 2013 there would be no tolerance for crap like that.
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Incognito is definitely an *******. No doubt about that. But I highly doubt 99% of the other O-linemen in the NFL would have handled the situation the same way. But, to each his own, and AGAIN, I'm not blaming Martin or saying he was at fault.
 
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