Everyone seems to know this except our DC

[poncho0091]

not only that, but they had to renotevamp the roster, which doesn't necessarily take 3-4 years in the NFL.

OK, for those of you that are still backing Golden/Dorito, what is a legit timeframe for having a top 20 D? As noted, is it a legit goal to give 3-4 years till he has all the pieces, or should he be adapting a scheme to fit the pieces he actually has??? I'll hang up and listen.

Their first real class well be juniors this year. There's also no scheme to adapt to the skills of highsmith etc... a legit time frame is however long it takes as long as the win/loss is at a reasonable level.. if we're winning 10 plus games a year and the defense is ranked 30th I'm not going to **** about it.

That's the difference between fans that approve and disapprove what Golden has done. Win/Loss is one data point. Once you dig deeper into the details you see what is really going on. Had we lost those games in a competitive manner this board wouldn't be so split. Getting handled like we did and the trend, well you know.

The problem is all with expectations... when people were predicting records before the season. 8-9 wins was pretty much the average.. with some people thinking 10-11 if we could get a few things to fall our way... somehow, after our 7-0 start, even though Al was telling us week in and week out that we're not there yet, and that we're still rebuilding, we were all of a sudden supposed to be a 10-12 win team.. also, W/L is the only data point that matters..

And that's what's wrong with the Golden defenders. They completely ignore what people are unhappy about and say our problem is our expectations for w/l was too high. There is not a single person against Golden right now pointing to our W/L, but that's what you keep pointing out. Most of us, even after the 7-0 start, are complaining about the way our team played on the field as if they were completely lost. If we won 10-11 games, I'd still say I was concerned about the way we played (assuming we played the same way and just somehow managed to win).

Add to that our schedule was super soft like Charmin. 8 wins or less would have been depressing, but if we only had those 8 wins, but looked like a competent team in the process, I could have dealt with it. Duke is a decent team this year, but we should not have lost to them. We looked like garbage that game. This is the worst VT we've seen in a long time, and we beat them last year with basically the same team, but we lost this year.

Understand what people are unhappy with, before assuming and looking ridiculous for stating something that noone is talking about.

 

[Dghustla]

Yet the article is about how PC uses both 1 gap and 2 gap at the same time.
Not sure people got that.

Yeah we read that. But if you read the article and not what you wanted to see. Pete Carroll and tony Dungy said that running 2-gap across the board never works as well as it seems to in theory. I'm all for innovation and I'm all for mixing it up. But we are the worst team in the country when it comes to tackle for losses because we have every DL 2-gaping and not attacking.

 

[Dghustla]

OK, for those of you that are still backing Golden/Dorito, what is a legit timeframe for having a top 20 D? As noted, is it a legit goal to give 3-4 years till he has all the pieces, or should he be adapting a scheme to fit the pieces he actually has??? I'll hang up and listen.

Their first real class well be juniors this year. There's also no scheme to adapt to the skills of highsmith etc... a legit time frame is however long it takes as long as the win/loss is at a reasonable level.. if we're winning 10 plus games a year and the defense is ranked 30th I'm not going to **** about it.

That's the difference between fans that approve and disapprove what Golden has done. Win/Loss is one data point. Once you dig deeper into the details you see what is really going on. Had we lost those games in a competitive manner this board wouldn't be so split. Getting handled like we did and the trend, well you know.

The problem is all with expectations... when people were predicting records before the season. 8-9 wins was pretty much the average.. with some people thinking 10-11 if we could get a few things to fall our way... somehow, after our 7-0 start, even though Al was telling us week in and week out that we're not there yet, and that we're still rebuilding, we were all of a sudden supposed to be a 10-12 win team.. also, W/L is the only data point that matters..

And that's what's wrong with the Golden defenders. They completely ignore what people are unhappy about and say our problem is our expectations for w/l was too high. There is not a single person against Golden right now pointing to our W/L, but that's what you keep pointing out. Most of us, even after the 7-0 start, are complaining about the way our team played on the field as if they were completely lost. If we won 10-11 games, I'd still say I was concerned about the way we played (assuming we played the same way and just somehow managed to win).

Add to that our schedule was super soft like Charmin. 8 wins or less would have been depressing, but if we only had those 8 wins, but looked like a competent team in the process, I could have dealt with it. Duke is a decent team this year, but we should not have lost to them. We looked like garbage that game. This is the worst VT we've seen in a long time, and we beat them last year with basically the same team, but we lost this year.

Understand what people are unhappy with, before assuming and looking ridiculous for stating something that noone is talking about.

Thank you and once again someone tries to derail the thread with "expectations". I AM A GOLDEN SUPPORTER, But I don't agree with him keeping D'no and Not changing the scheme. Miami was known for innovating college football. Now we watch other teams (SEC) use the style of ball we branded and getting all the credit. The scheme doesn't work, we've given up 500 passing yards or rushing yards to every team we played with a pulse. I don't see how many teams should put up those numbers when you have an elite lock down corner like Tracy howard on one side of the field. Logan Thomas 2 years ago was considered a 1st round pick. his stock has plummeted and he is considered to be a bum. you know who his two best career passing games are against...you guess it the U. Ppl got excited at 7-0 because they saw a mediocre VT,DUKE,UVA,Pitt on the schedule remaining. With that left if you didn't think we could get to 10/11 wins you have no balls. Golden was doing what he does best which was cover his *** to convince you when the team unraveled that he didn't have enough to beat Duke...man don't get me started...and the coastal was on the line too...i just got over this foolishness.

 

[UMJay]

Goldens scheme.

This. We can say what we want about Dorito, but this is Al's scheme.

 

[CaneAlmighty]

Yet the article is about how PC uses both 1 gap and 2 gap at the same time.
Not sure people got that.

Yeah we read that. But if you read the article and not what you wanted to see. Pete Carroll and tony Dungy said that running 2-gap across the board never works as well as it seems to in theory. I'm all for innovation and I'm all for mixing it up. But we are the worst team in the country when it comes to . tackle for losses because we have every DL 2-gaping and not attacking.

Not true

 

[DaU83]

Their first real class well be juniors this year. There's also no scheme to adapt to the skills of highsmith etc... a legit time frame is however long it takes as long as the win/loss is at a reasonable level.. if we're winning 10 plus games a year and the defense is ranked 30th I'm not going to **** about it.

That's the difference between fans that approve and disapprove what Golden has done. Win/Loss is one data point. Once you dig deeper into the details you see what is really going on. Had we lost those games in a competitive manner this board wouldn't be so split. Getting handled like we did and the trend, well you know.

The problem is all with expectations... when people were predicting records before the season. 8-9 wins was pretty much the average.. with some people thinking 10-11 if we could get a few things to fall our way... somehow, after our 7-0 start, even though Al was telling us week in and week out that we're not there yet, and that we're still rebuilding, we were all of a sudden supposed to be a 10-12 win team.. also, W/L is the only data point that matters..

And that's what's wrong with the Golden defenders. They completely ignore what people are unhappy about and say our problem is our expectations for w/l was too high. There is not a single person against Golden right now pointing to our W/L, but that's what you keep pointing out. Most of us, even after the 7-0 start, are complaining about the way our team played on the field as if they were completely lost. If we won 10-11 games, I'd still say I was concerned about the way we played (assuming we played the same way and just somehow managed to win).

Add to that our schedule was super soft like Charmin. 8 wins or less would have been depressing, but if we only had those 8 wins, but looked like a competent team in the process, I could have dealt with it. Duke is a decent team this year, but we should not have lost to them. We looked like garbage that game. This is the worst VT we've seen in a long time, and we beat them last year with basically the same team, but we lost this year.

Understand what people are unhappy with, before assuming and looking ridiculous for stating something that noone is talking about.

Thank you and once again someone tries to derail the thread with "expectations". I AM A GOLDEN SUPPORTER, But I don't agree with him keeping D'no and Not changing the scheme. Miami was known for innovating college football. Now we watch other teams (SEC) use the style of ball we branded and getting all the credit. The scheme doesn't work, we've given up 500 passing yards or rushing yards to every team we played with a pulse. I don't see how many teams should put up those numbers when you have an elite lock down corner like Tracy howard on one side of the field. Logan Thomas 2 years ago was considered a 1st round pick. his stock has plummeted and he is considered to be a bum. you know who his two best career passing games are against...you guess it the U. Ppl got excited at 7-0 because they saw a mediocre VT,DUKE,UVA,Pitt on the schedule remaining. With that left if you didn't think we could get to 10/11 wins you have no balls. Golden was doing what he does best which was cover his *** to convince you when the team unraveled that he didn't have enough to beat Duke...man don't get me started...and the coastal was on the line too...i just got over this foolishness.

the scheme doesn't work, right away.. you can maybe say that. But per the results at temple, the scheme does work.

 

[Gatorhater]

While at USC, Carroll described his ideal free safety as “a natural player” that “you don’t have to coach” much.

Do we have that player in Bush or someone else?

Al would never play that type of player - no free lancing, only assignment football. The most natual player on our team is Duke and who is the one player Al threw under the bus this year by name -- Duke. I say again, Ed Reed would do nothing but sit on the pine under Al. That said, let's not make Carroll some sort of god please. Man was cheat and dirt bag who left USC in a dark, dark hole.

 

[Coach Macho]

You guys act like Temple's defense was ******' outstanding. They reached 16th in the nation playing against a bunch of scrubs and they had NFL players at their disposal.

 

[CaneAlmighty]

You guys act like Temple's defense was ****in' outstanding. They reached 16th in the nation playing against a bunch of scrubs and they had NFL players at their disposal.

Considering Temple hadn't sniffed a top 50 defense is decades that's outstanding.
If the defense you coach ever reached top 10 status we shouldn't be impressed?

 

[DaU83]

You guys act like Temple's defense was ****in' outstanding. They reached 16th in the nation playing against a bunch of scrubs and they had NFL players at their disposal.

I'm hoping you're being sarcastic, but sadly I know you're not. It's amazing what we do to try and discredit this staff. You act like they didn't recruit and develop those guys... also, you act like they're playing against a bunch of scrubs with bamas roster... they had temple talent too

 

[McGahee2TheHouse]

You guys act like Temple's defense was ****in' outstanding. They reached 16th in the nation playing against a bunch of scrubs and they had NFL players at their disposal.

I'm hoping you're being sarcastic, but sadly I know you're not. It's amazing what we do to try and discredit this staff. You act like they didn't recruit and develop those guys... also, you act like they're playing against a bunch of scrubs with bamas roster... they had temple talent too

Really? I thought Golden had some of the highest rated recruiting classes in the MAC..

 

[Miami82]

83 what is your relation to Golden?

 

[DaU83]

You guys act like Temple's defense was ****in' outstanding. They reached 16th in the nation playing against a bunch of scrubs and they had NFL players at their disposal.

I'm hoping you're being sarcastic, but sadly I know you're not. It's amazing what we do to try and discredit this staff. You act like they didn't recruit and develop those guys... also, you act like they're playing against a bunch of scrubs with bamas roster... they had temple talent too

Really? I thought Golden had some of the highest rated recruiting classes in the MAC..

That's a reason to.applaud the job they did... also highest rated in the mac doesn't really mean much, what top 60+ classes?

 

[poncho0091]

If we completely **** the bed next season, and lets assume it happens again the next year (No I dont want this to happen, just sayin), will people look at Golden the same way they looked at Shannon and Coker in 5 years?

 

[McGahee2TheHouse]

You guys act like Temple's defense was ****in' outstanding. They reached 16th in the nation playing against a bunch of scrubs and they had NFL players at their disposal.

I'm hoping you're being sarcastic, but sadly I know you're not. It's amazing what we do to try and discredit this staff. You act like they didn't recruit and develop those guys... also, you act like they're playing against a bunch of scrubs with bamas roster... they had temple talent too

Really? I thought Golden had some of the highest rated recruiting classes in the MAC..

That's a reason to.applaud the job they did... also highest rated in the mac doesn't really mean much, what top 60+ classes?

How does any of that follow? What is there to applaud about a 16th ranked defense produced with having the the most/close to the most talent in your conference and by playing bad teams? Any semblance of a real team and that defense got killed. Penn St. is the first example that comes to mind.

And their rating in the MAC does matter when you consider Golden could never win the MAC (what a shocker).

 

[WhatTheHell]

It doesn't matter if their classes were top 60+, what matters is their ranking relative to their opponents.

They brought in the highest-rated classes in that conference.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

That said, let's not make Carroll some sort of god please. Man was cheat and dirt bag who left USC in a dark, dark hole.

Give me a break. USC had just experienced the Paul Hackett years, which were so abysmal that I couldn't get any of my friends to meet me on campus for a game. Nobody wanted to go. The football program was in such bad shape that when I wrote a positive letter to the editor of Trojan Family magazine praising the Carroll hire, they didn't print it, apparently believing it was a spoof. Everybody hated the Carroll hire.

Carroll restored USC to heights it hadn't experienced since the first John Robinson era, if not the McKay era in the early to mid '70s. Kids who sign with USC these days remember the glory years from their childhood. If not for Carroll, many of them wouldn't consider USC. When USC was down the nonsense about the campus location was allowed to linger. Heck, Nick Saban's agent told him that "nobody wants to go to south central Los Angeles anymore." Saban still nags him about that quote.

Regarding the violations and the sanctions, USC fans will dispute the contentions and the facts every bit as much as Canes fans regarding the Shapiro situation. From afar everybody wants to believe the other side is guilty and deserves to be hanged. Carroll was interviewing for jobs and was rumored to be itching to give the NFL another chance long before he departed for Seattle.

 

[DaU83]

83 what is your relation to Golden?

common sense, logic, perspective.. that's about it though.

 

[DaU83]

You guys act like Temple's defense was ****in' outstanding. They reached 16th in the nation playing against a bunch of scrubs and they had NFL players at their disposal.

I'm hoping you're being sarcastic, but sadly I know you're not. It's amazing what we do to try and discredit this staff. You act like they didn't recruit and develop those guys... also, you act like they're playing against a bunch of scrubs with bamas roster... they had temple talent too

Really? I thought Golden had some of the highest rated recruiting classes in the MAC..

That's a reason to.applaud the job they did... also highest rated in the mac doesn't really mean much, what top 60+ classes?

How does any of that follow? What is there to applaud about a 16th ranked defense produced with having the the most/close to the most talent in your conference and by playing bad teams? Any semblance of a real team and that defense got killed. Penn St. is the first example that comes to mind.

And their rating in the MAC does matter when you consider Golden could never win the MAC (what a shocker).

this is the most backwards logic ever... so as golden continues to bring in top classes in our conference, we're going to hold that against him when we start crushing the conference.. you can't say "well he had the most talent in the conference" as if he should be penalized for doing a good job in recruiting.. regardless of that, brining in "top" mac talent does not equate to having bama talent, the point being that he was still playing with a bunch of 0 1- 2 star guys on D too.. and getting a top 16 DEFENSE out of a team that a few years before that had 0 wins.. is impressive.

"i'm not impressed by butch's top ranked defense, he had the most talent in the big east"..

 

[CaneAlmighty]

I'm hoping you're being sarcastic, but sadly I know you're not. It's amazing what we do to try and discredit this staff. You act like they didn't recruit and develop those guys... also, you act like they're playing against a bunch of scrubs with bamas roster... they had temple talent too

Really? I thought Golden had some of the highest rated recruiting classes in the MAC..

That's a reason to.applaud the job they did... also highest rated in the mac doesn't really mean much, what top 60+ classes?

How does any of that follow? What is there to applaud about a 16th ranked defense produced with having the the most/close to the most talent in your conference and by playing bad teams? Any semblance of a real team and that defense got killed. Penn St. is the first example that comes to mind.

And their rating in the MAC does matter when you consider Golden could never win the MAC (what a shocker).

this is the most backwards logic ever... so as golden continues to bring in top classes in our conference, we're going to hold that against him when we start crushing the conference.. you can't say "well he had the most talent in the conference" as if he should be penalized for doing a good job in recruiting.. regardless of that, brining in "top" mac talent does not equate to having bama talent, the point being that he was still playing with a bunch of 0 1- 2 star guys on D too.. and getting a top 16 DEFENSE out of a team that a few years before that had 0 wins.. is impressive.

"i'm not impressed by butch's top ranked defense, he had the most talent in the big east"..

Good job sir.