- Joined
- Nov 5, 2011
- Messages
- 3,542
I don't think it's a necessary condition for a Coordinator's success that he's allowed to choose/bring his own assistant coaches. I didn't do a scientific study, but looked at some of the playoff teams' coaching staffs, and it was as common for a coordinator to have a position coach on his side that he had coached with before as it was for a coordinator not to have such a coach. ASU DC Brian Ward brought the DL coach from WSU with him; at Texas (defensive side), Tennessee (defensive side), and Clemson (both) there didn't appear to be obvious instances of the coordinator bringing guys there that he had coached with at his prior stop (I may have missed some as, outside of Tennessee, I just glanced at the position coaches and where they were at before they arrived at their current job). I'd be curious to learn whether there's actual data that points to a coordinator having more success when he's worked with the position coaches under him before.
I think head coaches should generally be the final decision makers on the position coaches on their staff, not the coordinators. Coordinators should be a part of the process, but I don't think they should have veto power unless they have direct or indirect experience with the suggested hire that makes them strongly feel the guy is bad news. The head coach is responsible for building the entire program, while a coordinator is responsible for one side of the ball. The head coach may have other concerns - like covering certain geographic regions for recruiting - in mind when filling out his staff that a coordinator would be less likely to value. Also, a lot of schools have former players as position coaches (CJ Spiller & Nick Eason at Clemson for instance) or they have valued position coaches that have history at the school and have coached there under previous regimes (Rodney Garner at Tennessee). Schools have had a fixture as a position coach who transcends Head Coaches - Odell Haggins (FSU), Art Kehoe (here), etc. Perhaps this is becoming less common; I don't know? Long story short, successful programs often have multiple position coaches that are either Alumni, have a history of coaching at the school, or have been at the school for more than one head coach.
Tim Banks had never coached with any of the position coaches Heupel hired, when Banks was hired as DC for the 2021 season (https://utsports.com/sports/football/coaches/2021). He also hadn't coached with the LBer coach Tennessee hired for this season.
Leaving Tennessee to become our defensive coordinator would obviously be a different circumstance than when he was hired as Tenessee's DC in '21. He was Heupel's initial hire at DC and he was leaving PSU as Co-DC to be a solo DC at Tennessee. At Miami he'd be Coach's third DC hire, and, if in fact Coach set a condition that Banks had to keep at least one of the defensive position coaches (we don't know whether he did) from a very bad defense that could have given Banks pause. Absent reliable info from an insider, we simply don't know whether Coach said, "Jason Taylor is the DL coach, full stop," and Banks balked at that.
Worth pointing out, Taylor has helped to recruit 6 very good EDGE players in the last two recruiting classes (and IIRC he played a part in getting the elite DTs we signed last year), so it isn't like he's without value nor do I think Coach would have been wrong to set such a condition on Banks.
I'm not sure why "the coordinators need carte blanche to hire the position coaches under them," has become such a widespread belief here. I suspect it's because Coach hasn't been as successful yet as many of us hoped, and since he's already made 4 coordinator hires in his first 3 years and is now making his fifth a lot of people think the reason he's had to make so many coordinator hires is because those coordinators haven't brought any position coaches with them from their prior stop (Guidry did with Jackson in year 2). It's something that's been constant across 4 hires, so fans think if that changes the coordinators will be more successful. Fair enough.
I'd argue the problem has been that Coach hired at least 2 bad coordinators in Gattis & Guidry, and 1 in Steele that made no sense at the stage of his career that he was in (the end) and the fact that our program needed to be rebuilt. Gattis and Ponce had issues with eachother so severe that their poor relationship became public on this board. Same with Guidry and Taylor. Hire better coordinators and you won't have the coordinator and a position coach feuding to the point that their feud becomes public, IMO. We haven't heard anything about Dawson being at loggerheads with any of the offensive position coaches. The fact that these feuds keep happening and keep getting revealed semi-publicly here on this board reflects poorly on Coach. They're more likely to happen when you hire bad coordinators. Also, strong-willed football coaches are going to have disagreements. Those disagreements shouldn't keep spilling out into public view. Coach needs to hire a better defensive coordinator this time, while also tightening **** up and not allowing feuds between coaches to spill into public view.
The defense sucked last year, and it would obviously be absurd to bring back the DB/LB/DL coaches while hiring a new DC. I don't think it's absurd to bring back Taylor as he has recruited really well and his stature as a HOF EDGE player should keep paying dividends with HS and Portal recruits. As long as he isn't a buffoon at teaching the players, and Coach is confident he's not going to undermine the new DC (because he thinks he should be DC).
Sorry for the long post, and I hope I didn't parody the argument I disagree with too much. I used prior experience working together as a guide and not "the ability to hire his own position coaches" because, for one, if coaches haven't worked together before there's no telling whether they will coach well together and, two, I don't think there's a reliable way to know whether a position coach who the coordinator hasn't worked with got hired solely because of the head coach, solely because of the coordinator, or some combination of the two.
I think head coaches should generally be the final decision makers on the position coaches on their staff, not the coordinators. Coordinators should be a part of the process, but I don't think they should have veto power unless they have direct or indirect experience with the suggested hire that makes them strongly feel the guy is bad news. The head coach is responsible for building the entire program, while a coordinator is responsible for one side of the ball. The head coach may have other concerns - like covering certain geographic regions for recruiting - in mind when filling out his staff that a coordinator would be less likely to value. Also, a lot of schools have former players as position coaches (CJ Spiller & Nick Eason at Clemson for instance) or they have valued position coaches that have history at the school and have coached there under previous regimes (Rodney Garner at Tennessee). Schools have had a fixture as a position coach who transcends Head Coaches - Odell Haggins (FSU), Art Kehoe (here), etc. Perhaps this is becoming less common; I don't know? Long story short, successful programs often have multiple position coaches that are either Alumni, have a history of coaching at the school, or have been at the school for more than one head coach.
Tim Banks had never coached with any of the position coaches Heupel hired, when Banks was hired as DC for the 2021 season (https://utsports.com/sports/football/coaches/2021). He also hadn't coached with the LBer coach Tennessee hired for this season.
Leaving Tennessee to become our defensive coordinator would obviously be a different circumstance than when he was hired as Tenessee's DC in '21. He was Heupel's initial hire at DC and he was leaving PSU as Co-DC to be a solo DC at Tennessee. At Miami he'd be Coach's third DC hire, and, if in fact Coach set a condition that Banks had to keep at least one of the defensive position coaches (we don't know whether he did) from a very bad defense that could have given Banks pause. Absent reliable info from an insider, we simply don't know whether Coach said, "Jason Taylor is the DL coach, full stop," and Banks balked at that.
Worth pointing out, Taylor has helped to recruit 6 very good EDGE players in the last two recruiting classes (and IIRC he played a part in getting the elite DTs we signed last year), so it isn't like he's without value nor do I think Coach would have been wrong to set such a condition on Banks.
I'm not sure why "the coordinators need carte blanche to hire the position coaches under them," has become such a widespread belief here. I suspect it's because Coach hasn't been as successful yet as many of us hoped, and since he's already made 4 coordinator hires in his first 3 years and is now making his fifth a lot of people think the reason he's had to make so many coordinator hires is because those coordinators haven't brought any position coaches with them from their prior stop (Guidry did with Jackson in year 2). It's something that's been constant across 4 hires, so fans think if that changes the coordinators will be more successful. Fair enough.
I'd argue the problem has been that Coach hired at least 2 bad coordinators in Gattis & Guidry, and 1 in Steele that made no sense at the stage of his career that he was in (the end) and the fact that our program needed to be rebuilt. Gattis and Ponce had issues with eachother so severe that their poor relationship became public on this board. Same with Guidry and Taylor. Hire better coordinators and you won't have the coordinator and a position coach feuding to the point that their feud becomes public, IMO. We haven't heard anything about Dawson being at loggerheads with any of the offensive position coaches. The fact that these feuds keep happening and keep getting revealed semi-publicly here on this board reflects poorly on Coach. They're more likely to happen when you hire bad coordinators. Also, strong-willed football coaches are going to have disagreements. Those disagreements shouldn't keep spilling out into public view. Coach needs to hire a better defensive coordinator this time, while also tightening **** up and not allowing feuds between coaches to spill into public view.
The defense sucked last year, and it would obviously be absurd to bring back the DB/LB/DL coaches while hiring a new DC. I don't think it's absurd to bring back Taylor as he has recruited really well and his stature as a HOF EDGE player should keep paying dividends with HS and Portal recruits. As long as he isn't a buffoon at teaching the players, and Coach is confident he's not going to undermine the new DC (because he thinks he should be DC).
Sorry for the long post, and I hope I didn't parody the argument I disagree with too much. I used prior experience working together as a guide and not "the ability to hire his own position coaches" because, for one, if coaches haven't worked together before there's no telling whether they will coach well together and, two, I don't think there's a reliable way to know whether a position coach who the coordinator hasn't worked with got hired solely because of the head coach, solely because of the coordinator, or some combination of the two.
I would have gone all caps with this.
