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Cyrus Moss in the portal

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AlexCane said:
I saw him on campus quite a bit and he just didn't put on much weight.

He had a very long, lanky frame. Think NBA small forward. In hindsight, it was likely wishful thinking that a guy with that frame would ever be a 240+ pound guy.

I always wonder when guys like this transfer. Like, were they pushed out or did they voluntarily leave? Because a guy like Cyrus may have benefited from another year in the weight room and then you hope that Guidry can find a role for him as a situational rusher. Because voluntarily leaving into the black hole of the transfer portal looks like a weird career move.
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No one believes this but John Square was legit 6'6" 200 lbs (I saw him in person multiple times) and he somehow was an effective pass rushing specialist on some of the greatest college football teams of all time. He's an anomaly of course and defenses are much different today. I don't know if the could make an impact today but it really was weird seeing a guy that skinny out there making plays. He had a lot of sacks where he just straight ran around OTs.
 
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ben said:
Schools were under the assumption that Cyrus Moss was no longer in the portal. Upon closer examination, he was just standing sideways.
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Trav said:
No one believes this but John Square was legit 6'6" 200 lbs (I saw him in person multiple times) and he somehow was an effective pass rushing specialist on some of the greatest college football teams of all time. He's an anomaly of course and defenses are much different today. I don't know if the could make an impact today but it really was weird seeing a guy that skinny out there making plays. He had a lot of sacks where he just straight ran around OTs.
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Square had 5 sacks as a freshman in the 2001 team. If he weighed 215 lbs, it was because he was wearing 15 pound shoes
 
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DTP said:
Exactly. You’re gonna tell me there isn’t a G5 or even FCS school that would offer him a scholarship?
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That's what I'm thinking must be something more behind the scenes this guy is talented enough to find a key role on many G5 schools
 
AlexCane said:
I saw him on campus quite a bit and he just didn't put on much weight.

He had a very long, lanky frame. Think NBA small forward. In hindsight, it was likely wishful thinking that a guy with that frame would ever be a 240+ pound guy.

I always wonder when guys like this transfer. Like, were they pushed out or did they voluntarily leave? Because a guy like Cyrus may have benefited from another year in the weight room and then you hope that Guidry can find a role for him as a situational rusher. Because voluntarily leaving into the black hole of the transfer portal looks like a weird career move.
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I'm more curious what a staff thinks of a player when they take a Cyrus Moss. Its one thing to maybe see some highlights or see him at a camp - like us - and realize a guy is pretty thin. But we - as fans, evaluators, etc - really don't know if that 6'4" 200lb EDGE prospect has the work ethic-discipline to put on weight while maintaining requisite athleticism for their position nor do we know if they are just genetically limited. I would assume the coaches have some information on the former and have good guesses, but the latter...I guess you need to trust your staff and instinct seeing this many times over your career.

You look at the star ranking, the film, bring them in for visits...I'm wondering if they thought he was a legit highly regarded player or if he was seen as more of a project internally before they even accepted his commitment.

You know this guy is going to take a few years to even grow into the size you are hoping for. Do you have that time? Does the player understand the time it'll take to transform their body to play here?

And that isn't even including his play on the practice field where he's not playing against 250lb future office jockeys like in HS. Imagine Cyrus Moss going up against Anez Cooper or Mauigoa or Rivers? I am assuming a guy like Cy Moss doesn't look good before the whistle and it looks ugly most of the time after the whistle. Two different sized humans.
 
BoxingRobes said:
I'm more curious what a staff thinks of a player when they take a Cyrus Moss. Its one thing to maybe see some highlights or see him at a camp - like us - and realize a guy is pretty thin. But we - as fans, evaluators, etc - really don't know if that 6'4" 200lb EDGE prospect has the work ethic-discipline to put on weight while maintaining requisite athleticism for their position nor do we know if they are just genetically limited. I would assume the coaches have some information on the former and have good guesses, but the latter...I guess you need to trust your staff and instinct seeing this many times over your career.

You look at the star ranking, the film, bring them in for visits...I'm wondering if they thought he was a legit highly regarded player or if he was seen as more of a project internally before they even accepted his commitment.

You know this guy is going to take a few years to even grow into the size you are hoping for. Do you have that time? Does the player understand the time it'll take to transform their body to play here?

And that isn't even including his play on the practice field where he's not playing against 250lb future office jockeys like in HS. Imagine Cyrus Moss going up against Anez Cooper or Mauigoa or Rivers? I am assuming a guy like Cy Moss doesn't look good before the whistle and it looks ugly most of the time after the whistle. Two different sized humans.
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Some guys just can't put on weight no matter what they do. When I coached h.s. we had this kid who we had at safety/LB and weighed like 140 soaking wet. He tried everything to bulk up, basically doubled his calorie intake and lived in the gym and while he got a lot stronger, he never gained an ounce. Sometimes physiology just doesn't let you transform your body. Same deal with fat people that can't lose weight no matter what they do.
 
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Trav said:
Some guys just can't put on weight no matter what they do. When I coached h.s. we had this kid who we had at safety/LB and weighed like 140 soaking wet. He tried everything to bulk up, basically doubled his calorie intake and lived in the gym and while he got a lot stronger, he never gained an ounce. Sometimes physiology just doesn't let you transform your body. Same deal with fat people that can't lose weight no matter what they do.
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Agreed. Kids mature physically. The hope is that in a college weight room with staff, training, etc., that a kid like Cyrus that was likely I guess 210-215 can put on maybe 15-20 pounds and play at 230+. Unfortunately, he was just so long that I suspect it was hard for him to put on weight easily.

I did see him late in garbage time at the scrimmage in Lockhart 2 years ago and he seemed quick and was disruptive but it was late in the game too so he was likely going against non-starters. I always thought that maybe you could find a role for him, since I imagined his speed might be good on 3rd down against elusive QBs. But if you look at our DEs, Mario clearly looks like the bigger kids and not the 225-240 pound ends that Manny played/recruited.
 
AlexCane said:
I did see him late in garbage time at the scrimmage in Lockhart 2 years ago and he seemed quick and was disruptive but it was late in the game too so he was likely going against non-starters. I always thought that maybe you could find a role for him, since I imagined his speed might be good on 3rd down against elusive QBs. But if you look at our DEs, Mario clearly looks like the bigger kids and not the 225-240 pound ends that Manny played/recruited.
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Mario actually takes flyers on kids with freak traits that aren’t prototypical - Bain and Lofton for example. He’s taken several DEs that are light. Moss may be the thinnest, but at the time they committed Rudolph, Lightfoot and Pickett were all pretty underweight, too. Moss just never put the weight on.

I remember guys so excited about Moss that first year and even a year ago because he was so much twitchier and quick to the QB than guys like Harvey and McCloud. Even JT noted his qualities. I cautioned back then that he looked like a kid who would be ready as a RS Sophmore and wasn’t likely to contribute in 2023 much less 2022. Got shiit for it back then.

I don’t think you stop recruiting kids like this, you just need to be prepared to cut them loose if they don’t develop as projected.
 
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grover said:
Mario actually takes flyers on kids with freak traits that aren’t prototypical - Bain and Lofton for example. He’s taken several DEs that are light. Moss may be the thinnest, but at the time they committed Rudolph, Lightfoot and Pickett were all pretty underweight, too. Moss just never put the weight on.

I remember guys so excited about Moss that first year and even a year ago because he was so much twitchier and quick to the QB than guys like Harvey and McCloud. Even JT noted his qualities. I cautioned back then that he looked like a kid who would be ready as a RS Sophmore and wasn’t likely to contribute in 2023 much less 2022. Got shiit for it back then.

I don’t think you stop recruiting kids like this, you just need to be prepared to cut them loose if they don’t develop as projected.
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Bingo. And with the portal now, just take these kids and if they don't pan out, nudge 'em out.
 
AlexCane said:
Agreed. Kids mature physically. The hope is that in a college weight room with staff, training, etc., that a kid like Cyrus that was likely I guess 210-215 can put on maybe 15-20 pounds and play at 230+. Unfortunately, he was just so long that I suspect it was hard for him to put on weight easily.

I did see him late in garbage time at the scrimmage in Lockhart 2 years ago and he seemed quick and was disruptive but it was late in the game too so he was likely going against non-starters. I always thought that maybe you could find a role for him, since I imagined his speed might be good on 3rd down against elusive QBs. But if you look at our DEs, Mario clearly looks like the bigger kids and not the 225-240 pound ends that Manny played/recruited.
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Yea I thought he had some juice in the limited reps I saw him in. I think he was injured a lot too? I'm not sure if he's a total college bust or if him leaving even has to do with his frame. Remember he's looking at Bain, Messidor, Baron, and Alston in front of him not to mention all the equally talented 4/5* types we brought in so maybe they still thought he had potential, he would just be buried another year or 2.
 
Trav said:
No one believes this but John Square was legit 6'6" 200 lbs (I saw him in person multiple times) and he somehow was an effective pass rushing specialist on some of the greatest college football teams of all time. He's an anomaly of course and defenses are much different today. I don't know if the could make an impact today but it really was weird seeing a guy that skinny out there making plays. He had a lot of sacks where he just straight ran around OTs.
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John Square was way bigger than Moss. Seeing Moss in person was jarring. I he wasn’t 6’4 in frame…he had a very long neck. His shoulders height, arms, etc were probably what you would see for someone 6’1/6’2.
 
It’s more than a weight thing. There’s got to be some type of mental or physical ailment that kept small schools away. Look at the national leaders in sacks. Most of them are not 260 lb guys. Troy had a guy finish in the top 10 nationally who was 6’4” 225 as a redshirt senior. Pass rush specialists are still valued in college football even if they’re one dimensional. You’re not going to convince me that every single G5 program was like “yeah we’re going to pass on this former blue chip guy because we just don’t think he can gain weight.
 
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