The Importance Of A Demanding Base

[Wewillnotgopeacefully]

Me and my family have had season tickets and donated to the school since '86.
I have every right to complain about the continuous mediocrity this program has become. It starts with the administration and trickles down to the coaches. I agree that bashing kids is not acceptable but when it comes to the MILLIONAIRE President and Coaches, they are fair game. Al gets paid millions(plural) per year to get the job done. Incessant name calling is a tad overboard but calling him out and demanding MORE is reasonable and necessary.

Nothing wrong with voicing your displeasure like an adult. Yes the coaches get paid the big bucks and with it comes big responsibility and criticism. You must understand that, there comes a point when incessant bashing becomes negative recruiting. This only hurts our team. BTW, you might be part of the very few that support the team. Most don't.

Agreed, but you also have to understand that a lot of this is boiling over after 10 years of mediocrity. 10 years of "next year we should see improvement and the following year we should be back in business" yet here we still are. 10 years of seeing tons and tons of local talent dominating on Saturdays at other schools.10 years of the talent we do get not being developed to the fullest. 10 years of bad coaching hires. 10 years of crap.
I agree the name calling and such is a bit much, which I am guilty of myself, but all of these people going off the deep end are human and when something you love, which everyone who posts on canes boards does as well, keeps getting hurt over and over and over again there comes a breaking point to which people go off the deep end. Not saying its all justifiable but at the same time must be understood. 10 years of this and no tangible light at the end of the tunnel breeds what you see happening. We're not talking about a 2, 3 or even a four year slide, we are talking about a decade. Its tough to swallow for some and its all boiling over.

Al and co. has only been here for 3 years. You can't blame him for the last 10. It's like a scorned lover, bashing every new mate because of what the previous mate did. Being upset don't give you the right to be a**. We are supposedly adults here. Whining are for baby's.

I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying, just pointing out some reasons as to why people are boiling over. People don't always react to things rationally when it comes to something you love or deeply care about. The last 10 years have taken a toll on people.
Like I said, not disagreeing with you but trying to rationalize the thought process behind the vitriol.

And while Al and co have only been here for 3, the administration has been in place for the entire tenure of this downward trend. I think a lot of people are as upset or more with the administration than they are with Al, its just that Al gets the brunt of it because he's the face of the program.

I agree. I understand that people are upset, but I want them to see the damage they do by being a**hats. If you love the program, than don't hurt it.

 

[CaneAlmighty]

Our D in 07 ranked 35th and Shannon got rid of Walton. Shannon was in over his head in every way but he knew what was acceptable and whats not.

This doesn't really support your position since firing Walton has proven to be a dumb move considering he is now a DC in the NFL.
Who knows how the 2008 -2010 defenses would have fared had Shannon not been so quick to scapegoat a coach that was practically running Shannon's defense.

Thanks for pointing out the sometimes patience maybe to the better route.

 

[capefearcane]

One thing - "But it is the "haters" and "whiners" in our fan and donor base that make anything less than winning a fireable offense." - OK this sounds about right, and I/we aren't happy - but no one is about to be fired right now. However given the PSU issue and how poorly it was handled - the two year deadline is hereby reduced to one year for significant improvement (10 wins winning streak end of seaon - including a good bowl win). After which, if said not accomplished - administration kicks off a real search for a proven winner.

 

[ZCanes]

Nothing wrong with voicing your displeasure like an adult. Yes the coaches get paid the big bucks and with it comes big responsibility and criticism. You must understand that, there comes a point when incessant bashing becomes negative recruiting. This only hurts our team. BTW, you might be part of the very few that support the team. Most don't.

Agreed, but you also have to understand that a lot of this is boiling over after 10 years of mediocrity. 10 years of "next year we should see improvement and the following year we should be back in business" yet here we still are. 10 years of seeing tons and tons of local talent dominating on Saturdays at other schools.10 years of the talent we do get not being developed to the fullest. 10 years of bad coaching hires. 10 years of crap.
I agree the name calling and such is a bit much, which I am guilty of myself, but all of these people going off the deep end are human and when something you love, which everyone who posts on canes boards does as well, keeps getting hurt over and over and over again there comes a breaking point to which people go off the deep end. Not saying its all justifiable but at the same time must be understood. 10 years of this and no tangible light at the end of the tunnel breeds what you see happening. We're not talking about a 2, 3 or even a four year slide, we are talking about a decade. Its tough to swallow for some and its all boiling over.

Al and co. has only been here for 3 years. You can't blame him for the last 10. It's like a scorned lover, bashing every new mate because of what the previous mate did. Being upset don't give you the right to be a**. We are supposedly adults here. Whining are for baby's.

I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying, just pointing out some reasons as to why people are boiling over. People don't always react to things rationally when it comes to something you love or deeply care about. The last 10 years have taken a toll on people.
Like I said, not disagreeing with you but trying to rationalize the thought process behind the vitriol.

And while Al and co have only been here for 3, the administration has been in place for the entire tenure of this downward trend. I think a lot of people are as upset or more with the administration than they are with Al, its just that Al gets the brunt of it because he's the face of the program.

I agree. I understand that people are upset, but I want them to see the damage they do by being a**hats. If you love the program, than don't hurt it.

Very true, but it is now time for the administration to also love the program and not hurt it by not putting enough in to get what we want out. The onus is squarely on them to right the ship, exponentially more than it is on the fans.

 

[supacane]

Our D in 07 ranked 35th and Shannon got rid of Walton. Shannon was in over his head in every way but he knew what was acceptable and whats not.

This doesn't really support your position since firing Walton has proven to be a dumb move considering he is now a DC in the NFL.
Who knows how the 2008 -2010 defenses would have fared had Shannon not been so quick to scapegoat a coach that was practically running Shannon's defense.

Thanks for pointing out the sometimes patience maybe to the better route.

Not because someone doesn't work out in one instance doesnt mean they wont work in another. It doesnt mean they went and did the same thing they were doing before that got them fired. They review and learn, sometimes reinvent themselves. This is reality for people who labor for a living daily. Only coaches are mourned for when they get fired. Bellicheck and Pete Carroll both got fired. And yeah, Shannon may have been shortsighted for firing the guy after 1 year, but No D has had 3....3 years. Thats enough time to show some improvement, its been a plummet and clear regression. And btw Our defense actually got better in Randy last 2 years under John Lovett #1 in the ACC in his last year, with a very challenging schedule.

 

[CaneAlmighty]

Our D in 07 ranked 35th and Shannon got rid of Walton. Shannon was in over his head in every way but he knew what was acceptable and whats not.

This doesn't really support your position since firing Walton has proven to be a dumb move considering he is now a DC in the NFL.
Who knows how the 2008 -2010 defenses would have fared had Shannon not been so quick to scapegoat a coach that was practically running Shannon's defense.

Thanks for pointing out the sometimes patience maybe to the better route.

Not because someone doesn't work out in one instance doesnt mean they wont work in another. It doesnt mean they went and did the same thing they were doing before that got them fired. They review and learn, sometimes reinvent themselves. This is reality for people who labor for a living daily. Only coaches are mourned for when they get fired. Bellicheck and Pete Carroll both got fired. And yeah, Shannon may have been shortsighted for firing the guy after 1 year, but No D has had 3....3 years. Thats enough time to show some improvement, its been a plummet and clear regression. And btw Our defense actually got better in Randy last 2 years under John Lovett #1 in the ACC in his last year, with a very challenging schedule.

But how do you know they wouldn't have been better had Walton been kept? You don't.

Anyhow, about D'onforio having 3 years. Well he has a prior history with Golden at Temple where they managed to get to a #17 total ranked defense his 4th year. So there is a prior history of success that can be drawn upon to justify some patience.
Next year will be there 4th year. If there is one thing that implementing the type of defense they want to implement is that it's not a quick fix and that it takes veteran players to be successful in it. Unfortunately the veteran players he had weren't very good.
But I think the thinking among them is that once they get the depth and experience levels they where they want them this defense can be successful. Especially when you add the talent that they're able to bring in. But like I said it takes time. And time is something this fan base doesn't want to spend.

 

[Wewillnotgopeacefully]

Agreed, but you also have to understand that a lot of this is boiling over after 10 years of mediocrity. 10 years of "next year we should see improvement and the following year we should be back in business" yet here we still are. 10 years of seeing tons and tons of local talent dominating on Saturdays at other schools.10 years of the talent we do get not being developed to the fullest. 10 years of bad coaching hires. 10 years of crap.
I agree the name calling and such is a bit much, which I am guilty of myself, but all of these people going off the deep end are human and when something you love, which everyone who posts on canes boards does as well, keeps getting hurt over and over and over again there comes a breaking point to which people go off the deep end. Not saying its all justifiable but at the same time must be understood. 10 years of this and no tangible light at the end of the tunnel breeds what you see happening. We're not talking about a 2, 3 or even a four year slide, we are talking about a decade. Its tough to swallow for some and its all boiling over.

Al and co. has only been here for 3 years. You can't blame him for the last 10. It's like a scorned lover, bashing every new mate because of what the previous mate did. Being upset don't give you the right to be a**. We are supposedly adults here. Whining are for baby's.

I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying, just pointing out some reasons as to why people are boiling over. People don't always react to things rationally when it comes to something you love or deeply care about. The last 10 years have taken a toll on people.
Like I said, not disagreeing with you but trying to rationalize the thought process behind the vitriol.

And while Al and co have only been here for 3, the administration has been in place for the entire tenure of this downward trend. I think a lot of people are as upset or more with the administration than they are with Al, its just that Al gets the brunt of it because he's the face of the program.

I agree. I understand that people are upset, but I want them to see the damage they do by being a**hats. If you love the program, than don't hurt it.

Very true, but it is now time for the administration to also love the program and not hurt it by not putting enough in to get what we want out. The onus is squarely on them to right the ship, exponentially more than it is on the fans.

Listen, we can go at this all day long. Bottom line is the fans need to be patient and cognizant of their irresponsible behavior. You talk about the past 10 years, but how conveniently you forget about all the turnover. Do you really think that is a good thing? Words like stability and continuity are not part of our fans vocabulary. Do I want a winning program of course. The administration is doing the best job they can. On the other hand, the so-called diehard fans are negative recruiting our commits and tweeting potential recruits. They are making up rumors that our coaches are incompetent and get upset when Bethel decommits. Where the **** they do that at? That is not on Al or Shalala. Those are your so-called cane brothers. The diehard bunch, that don't support nothing.

 

[Miami82]

LMAO, have to love the so called fans that blame the fans for the incompetent product on the field. Good God how the mighty have truly fallen.

 

[Wewillnotgopeacefully]

Our D in 07 ranked 35th and Shannon got rid of Walton. Shannon was in over his head in every way but he knew what was acceptable and whats not.

This doesn't really support your position since firing Walton has proven to be a dumb move considering he is now a DC in the NFL.
Who knows how the 2008 -2010 defenses would have fared had Shannon not been so quick to scapegoat a coach that was practically running Shannon's defense.

Thanks for pointing out the sometimes patience maybe to the better route.

Not because someone doesn't work out in one instance doesnt mean they wont work in another. It doesnt mean they went and did the same thing they were doing before that got them fired. They review and learn, sometimes reinvent themselves. This is reality for people who labor for a living daily. Only coaches are mourned for when they get fired. Bellicheck and Pete Carroll both got fired. And yeah, Shannon may have been shortsighted for firing the guy after 1 year, but No D has had 3....3 years. Thats enough time to show some improvement, its been a plummet and clear regression. And btw Our defense actually got better in Randy last 2 years under John Lovett #1 in the ACC in his last year, with a very challenging schedule.

But how do you know they wouldn't have been better had Walton been kept? You don't.

Anyhow, about D'onforio having 3 years. Well he has a prior history with Golden at Temple where they managed to get to a #17 total ranked defense his 4th year. So there is a prior history of success that can be drawn upon to justify some patience.
Next year will be there 4th year. If there is one thing that implementing the type of defense they want to implement is that it's not a quick fix and that it takes veteran players to be successful in it. Unfortunately the veteran players he had weren't very good.
But I think the thinking among them is that once they get the depth and experience levels they where they want them this defense can be successful. Especially when you add the talent that they're able to bring in. But like I said it takes time. And time is something this fan base doesn't want to spend.

I agree. Also, we have to stop comparing apples to oranges. This is a different team, different time, different players, different everything. Some coaches come into the perfect situation ala Coker. Some coaches come into a s*** storm ala Golden. All of these comparisons are not equal.

 

[Wewillnotgopeacefully]

LMAO, have to love the so called fans that blame the fans for the incompetent product on the field. Good God how the mighty have truly fallen.

In case you have been living under a rock the past 15 years, we live in a social media time. Whether you believe it or not, negative recruiting is very real. Teams have done it against us and our so-called fans do the same thing. If we are losing 4 star recruits because of it, whose fault is it? It does not take scholar to understand that.

 

[supacane]

Our D in 07 ranked 35th and Shannon got rid of Walton. Shannon was in over his head in every way but he knew what was acceptable and whats not.

This doesn't really support your position since firing Walton has proven to be a dumb move considering he is now a DC in the NFL.
Who knows how the 2008 -2010 defenses would have fared had Shannon not been so quick to scapegoat a coach that was practically running Shannon's defense.

Thanks for pointing out the sometimes patience maybe to the better route.

Not because someone doesn't work out in one instance doesnt mean they wont work in another. It doesnt mean they went and did the same thing they were doing before that got them fired. They review and learn, sometimes reinvent themselves. This is reality for people who labor for a living daily. Only coaches are mourned for when they get fired. Bellicheck and Pete Carroll both got fired. And yeah, Shannon may have been shortsighted for firing the guy after 1 year, but No D has had 3....3 years. Thats enough time to show some improvement, its been a plummet and clear regression. And btw Our defense actually got better in Randy last 2 years under John Lovett #1 in the ACC in his last year, with a very challenging schedule.

But how do you know they wouldn't have been better had Walton been kept? You don't.

Anyhow, about D'onforio having 3 years. Well he has a prior history with Golden at Temple where they managed to get to a #17 total ranked defense his 4th year. So there is a prior history of success that can be drawn upon to justify some patience.
Next year will be there 4th year. If there is one thing that implementing the type of defense they want to implement is that it's not a quick fix and that it takes veteran players to be successful in it. Unfortunately the veteran players he had weren't very good.
But I think the thinking among them is that once they get the depth and experience levels they where they want them this defense can be successful. Especially when you add the talent that they're able to bring in. But like I said it takes time. And time is something this fan base doesn't want to spend.

We don't need 4 years to not be ranked in the 100s in every category thats relevant on defense. We don't. Thats unacceptable. Golden and No D will have you think we had Temple like talent, and we don't. Its a farce and a lie. We may not have the depth, that is true but we have good players all over the team. We simply are playing against their talent. Trying to force fast players to be strong by packing on pounds onto them. One would think, use their quickness to exploit OL, no we try to flex muscle against them. Whose fault is that? That is not a talent issue. That is them being stubborn like they have shown since they have been here. FSU plays a 3-4 as do we and they have 220 pounds LBs playing, we fatten ours up and ask them to cover slot WRs. Man, im not a coach but i have watch enough football to see bad schemes and philosophies when i see it....but ok. And bro after 3 years. What you did at Temple is irrelevant to me. It simply is 37 games is a good barameter of what you are. It simply is.

 

[ZCanes]

Our D in 07 ranked 35th and Shannon got rid of Walton. Shannon was in over his head in every way but he knew what was acceptable and whats not.

This doesn't really support your position since firing Walton has proven to be a dumb move considering he is now a DC in the NFL.
Who knows how the 2008 -2010 defenses would have fared had Shannon not been so quick to scapegoat a coach that was practically running Shannon's defense.

Thanks for pointing out the sometimes patience maybe to the better route.

Not because someone doesn't work out in one instance doesnt mean they wont work in another. It doesnt mean they went and did the same thing they were doing before that got them fired. They review and learn, sometimes reinvent themselves. This is reality for people who labor for a living daily. Only coaches are mourned for when they get fired. Bellicheck and Pete Carroll both got fired. And yeah, Shannon may have been shortsighted for firing the guy after 1 year, but No D has had 3....3 years. Thats enough time to show some improvement, its been a plummet and clear regression. And btw Our defense actually got better in Randy last 2 years under John Lovett #1 in the ACC in his last year, with a very challenging schedule.

But how do you know they wouldn't have been better had Walton been kept? You don't.

Anyhow, about D'onforio having 3 years. Well he has a prior history with Golden at Temple where they managed to get to a #17 total ranked defense his 4th year. So there is a prior history of success that can be drawn upon to justify some patience.
Next year will be there 4th year. If there is one thing that implementing the type of defense they want to implement is that it's not a quick fix and that it takes veteran players to be successful in it. Unfortunately the veteran players he had weren't very good.
But I think the thinking among them is that once they get the depth and experience levels they where they want them this defense can be successful. Especially when you add the talent that they're able to bring in. But like I said it takes time. And time is something this fan base doesn't want to spend.

I agree with you on your analysis on the defense requiring veteran talent and depth, no doubt.
But I have 2 things to say about that.

1. Given that this defensive scheme requires veterans and we obviously didn't have the veteran talent in place to effectively run it, why wasn't it changed, molded or tweaked to better fit the players we DID have at the time? You would think after knowing what you have for 3 years that they would understand and say, "hey, we don't have the horses for this scheme right now, we have to do something else until we have the right players in place". To me, the fact that they decided against that and continued to ride with a scheme that kept getting burned for 500 plus yards, game after game, shows stubborness and the inability to adjust which is paramount for a coaching staff.

2. The fact that this defense requires a completely veteran, and heady, group to make this defense work isn't very sustainable. Seems that based on point #1 and the fact that you need a very specific group of kids to make it work that we will probably see some years with good defense and we will also see a lot of years of sub par defense when the squad isn't stacked with veterans that fit the mold.

I have more of an issue with point #1 but I also don't really see the prospects of consistent defense, year in and year out if its success is only predicated on having a very specific set of players.

 

[supacane]

Our D in 07 ranked 35th and Shannon got rid of Walton. Shannon was in over his head in every way but he knew what was acceptable and whats not.

This doesn't really support your position since firing Walton has proven to be a dumb move considering he is now a DC in the NFL.
Who knows how the 2008 -2010 defenses would have fared had Shannon not been so quick to scapegoat a coach that was practically running Shannon's defense.

Thanks for pointing out the sometimes patience maybe to the better route.

Not because someone doesn't work out in one instance doesnt mean they wont work in another. It doesnt mean they went and did the same thing they were doing before that got them fired. They review and learn, sometimes reinvent themselves. This is reality for people who labor for a living daily. Only coaches are mourned for when they get fired. Bellicheck and Pete Carroll both got fired. And yeah, Shannon may have been shortsighted for firing the guy after 1 year, but No D has had 3....3 years. Thats enough time to show some improvement, its been a plummet and clear regression. And btw Our defense actually got better in Randy last 2 years under John Lovett #1 in the ACC in his last year, with a very challenging schedule.

But how do you know they wouldn't have been better had Walton been kept? You don't.

Anyhow, about D'onforio having 3 years. Well he has a prior history with Golden at Temple where they managed to get to a #17 total ranked defense his 4th year. So there is a prior history of success that can be drawn upon to justify some patience.
Next year will be there 4th year. If there is one thing that implementing the type of defense they want to implement is that it's not a quick fix and that it takes veteran players to be successful in it. Unfortunately the veteran players he had weren't very good.
But I think the thinking among them is that once they get the depth and experience levels they where they want them this defense can be successful. Especially when you add the talent that they're able to bring in. But like I said it takes time. And time is something this fan base doesn't want to spend.

I agree. Also, we have to stop comparing apples to oranges. This is a different team, different time, different players, different everything. Some coaches come into the perfect situation ala Coker. Some coaches come into a s*** storm ala Golden. All of these comparisons are not equal.

Yeah but you guys come in and blame Shannon without remorse for F'ing up everything. Like he got a stock cupboard from Coker, but never want to blame Golden. Let me remind you, it was quite difficult to recruit when Shannon came in. People were using Bryan Pata and Sean Taylor's murder on the recruiting trail. That was just as hard as the NCAA mess. Go tell kids parents, their kids are gonna get murdered at a particular institution and see how many sign their kids up to play. No one talks about the kids who got away because of that. But when it came down to it, in year 4 Shannon was judged on his record and run out of town. But Golden is this sympathetic poor guy figure.

 

[ZCanes]

Al and co. has only been here for 3 years. You can't blame him for the last 10. It's like a scorned lover, bashing every new mate because of what the previous mate did. Being upset don't give you the right to be a**. We are supposedly adults here. Whining are for baby's.

I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying, just pointing out some reasons as to why people are boiling over. People don't always react to things rationally when it comes to something you love or deeply care about. The last 10 years have taken a toll on people.
Like I said, not disagreeing with you but trying to rationalize the thought process behind the vitriol.

And while Al and co have only been here for 3, the administration has been in place for the entire tenure of this downward trend. I think a lot of people are as upset or more with the administration than they are with Al, its just that Al gets the brunt of it because he's the face of the program.

I agree. I understand that people are upset, but I want them to see the damage they do by being a**hats. If you love the program, than don't hurt it.

Very true, but it is now time for the administration to also love the program and not hurt it by not putting enough in to get what we want out. The onus is squarely on them to right the ship, exponentially more than it is on the fans.

Listen, we can go at this all day long. Bottom line is the fans need to be patient and cognizant of their irresponsible behavior. You talk about the past 10 years, but how conveniently you forget about all the turnover. Do you really think that is a good thing? Words like stability and continuity are not part of our fans vocabulary. Do I want a winning program of course. The administration is doing the best job they can. On the other hand, the so-called diehard fans are negative recruiting our commits and tweeting potential recruits. They are making up rumors that our coaches are incompetent and get upset when Bethel decommits. Where the **** they do that at? That is not on Al or Shalala. Those are your so-called cane brothers. The diehard bunch, that don't support nothing.

I prefaced my original statement by saying calling out kids is wrong.
The last thing I replied to was about our administrations failure to fix this mess that is now 10 years in the making. So I don't really understand what you posted above. It appears that we are disagreeing over different things. I agree with the negative recruiting, etc that you mentioned above but that's not where I was going with this. I'm saying that to get the program right its going to take the administration to get a lot better and more dedicated to doing what's necessary to winning and becoming an elite program again. The responsibility is more on them than it is on the fans, even though I do agree that the fans of the program need to support more and go to games more and all that jazz.

 

[Miami82]

LMAO, have to love the so called fans that blame the fans for the incompetent product on the field. Good God how the mighty have truly fallen.

In case you have been living under a rock the past 15 years, we live in a social media time. Whether you believe it or not, negative recruiting is very real. Teams have done it against us and our so-called fans do the same thing. If we are losing 4 star recruits because of it, whose fault is it? It does not take scholar to understand that.

LOL, nice try. The thing is winning fixes everything. Back to the staff on that. You want to stop negative recruiting you coach up the kids you do have and give them a fighting chance to win the ******* game. You don't sit back and give up 500+ yards on D the last what 6-7 games of the year and do nothing to change that. Your agenda driven posts will not change my mind or anyone with half a brain that sees the product on the field. Keep using that rant for fans that cant think.

 

[valentinfernandez]

One question for you! Are you a season ticket holder?

 

[ZCanes]

^^^^^^^
Yes

 

[CaneInHeelCountry]

This doesn't really support your position since firing Walton has proven to be a dumb move considering he is now a DC in the NFL.
Who knows how the 2008 -2010 defenses would have fared had Shannon not been so quick to scapegoat a coach that was practically running Shannon's defense.

Thanks for pointing out the sometimes patience maybe to the better route.

Not because someone doesn't work out in one instance doesnt mean they wont work in another. It doesnt mean they went and did the same thing they were doing before that got them fired. They review and learn, sometimes reinvent themselves. This is reality for people who labor for a living daily. Only coaches are mourned for when they get fired. Bellicheck and Pete Carroll both got fired. And yeah, Shannon may have been shortsighted for firing the guy after 1 year, but No D has had 3....3 years. Thats enough time to show some improvement, its been a plummet and clear regression. And btw Our defense actually got better in Randy last 2 years under John Lovett #1 in the ACC in his last year, with a very challenging schedule.

But how do you know they wouldn't have been better had Walton been kept? You don't.

Anyhow, about D'onforio having 3 years. Well he has a prior history with Golden at Temple where they managed to get to a #17 total ranked defense his 4th year. So there is a prior history of success that can be drawn upon to justify some patience.
Next year will be there 4th year. If there is one thing that implementing the type of defense they want to implement is that it's not a quick fix and that it takes veteran players to be successful in it. Unfortunately the veteran players he had weren't very good.
But I think the thinking among them is that once they get the depth and experience levels they where they want them this defense can be successful. Especially when you add the talent that they're able to bring in. But like I said it takes time. And time is something this fan base doesn't want to spend.

I agree. Also, we have to stop comparing apples to oranges. This is a different team, different time, different players, different everything. Some coaches come into the perfect situation ala Coker. Some coaches come into a s*** storm ala Golden. All of these comparisons are not equal.

Yeah but you guys come in and blame Shannon without remorse for F'ing up everything. Like he got a stock cupboard from Coker, but never want to blame Golden. Let me remind you, it was quite difficult to recruit when Shannon came in. People were using Bryan Pata and Sean Taylor's murder on the recruiting trail. That was just as hard as the NCAA mess. Go tell kids parents, their kids are gonna get murdered at a particular institution and see how many sign their kids up to play. No one talks about the kids who got away because of that. But when it came down to it, in year 4 Shannon was judged on his record and run out of town. But Golden is this sympathetic poor guy figure.

Dude, you're wayyy off base.

Yes, the Pata and Taylor murders caused a bit of stir. But it's easy to combat any negative recruiting about that by showing stats about just how safe Coral Gables is. You show the murder rate in the Gables versus the murder rate in Tallahassee, for example...and it's higher in Tallahassee.

It's a lot harder to try to convince a kid to come to UM when people are speculating that UM will get the death penalty, and there's nothing coaches can do or say, because even THEY don't know what punishment's coming down the pike.

 

[Miami82]

One question for you! Are you a season ticket holder?

Whether I pay $850 for season tickets or buy per game or give 10k to school a year what does that have to do with anything?

 

[CaneAlmighty]

Our D in 07 ranked 35th and Shannon got rid of Walton. Shannon was in over his head in every way but he knew what was acceptable and whats not.

This doesn't really support your position since firing Walton has proven to be a dumb move considering he is now a DC in the NFL.
Who knows how the 2008 -2010 defenses would have fared had Shannon not been so quick to scapegoat a coach that was practically running Shannon's defense.

Thanks for pointing out the sometimes patience maybe to the better route.

Not because someone doesn't work out in one instance doesnt mean they wont work in another. It doesnt mean they went and did the same thing they were doing before that got them fired. They review and learn, sometimes reinvent themselves. This is reality for people who labor for a living daily. Only coaches are mourned for when they get fired. Bellicheck and Pete Carroll both got fired. And yeah, Shannon may have been shortsighted for firing the guy after 1 year, but No D has had 3....3 years. Thats enough time to show some improvement, its been a plummet and clear regression. And btw Our defense actually got better in Randy last 2 years under John Lovett #1 in the ACC in his last year, with a very challenging schedule.

But how do you know they wouldn't have been better had Walton been kept? You don't.

Anyhow, about D'onforio having 3 years. Well he has a prior history with Golden at Temple where they managed to get to a #17 total ranked defense his 4th year. So there is a prior history of success that can be drawn upon to justify some patience.
Next year will be there 4th year. If there is one thing that implementing the type of defense they want to implement is that it's not a quick fix and that it takes veteran players to be successful in it. Unfortunately the veteran players he had weren't very good.
But I think the thinking among them is that once they get the depth and experience levels they where they want them this defense can be successful. Especially when you add the talent that they're able to bring in. But like I said it takes time. And time is something this fan base doesn't want to spend.

I agree with you on your analysis on the defense requiring veteran talent and depth, no doubt.
But I have 2 things to say about that.

1. Given that this defensive scheme requires veterans and we obviously didn't have the veteran talent in place to effectively run it, why wasn't it changed, molded or tweaked to better fit the players we DID have at the time? You would think after knowing what you have for 3 years that they would understand and say, "hey, we don't have the horses for this scheme right now, we have to do something else until we have the right players in place". To me, the fact that they decided against that and continued to ride with a scheme that kept getting burned for 500 plus yards, game after game, shows stubborness and the inability to adjust which is paramount for a coaching staff.

2. The fact that this defense requires a completely veteran, and heady, group to make this defense work isn't very sustainable. Seems that based on point #1 and the fact that you need a very specific group of kids to make it work that we will probably see some years with good defense and we will also see a lot of years of sub par defense when the squad isn't stacked with veterans that fit the mold.

I have more of an issue with point #1 but I also don't really see the prospects of consistent defense, year in and year out if its success is only predicated on having a very specific set of players.

On point #1. They had to implement it at some point in order to establish and embed it as part of this teams identity going forward year 3 was the year to do it. They were getting a key piece in Porter back healthy. I'm sure they were very well of the trade off between implementing now even though they felt the personnel was still a mismatch and suffering then to waiting until next year or beyond to do it further prolonging the implementation of it.
But don't kid yourself if you think this defense would have been any better if they had stuck with the Miami standard 4-3 cover 2 deep.
They wouldn't have. Look back at the Duke game and see how players were in position to make plays on runs but failed to make it.
Look at the first 2 TDs PITT scored. Scheme had nothing to do with those TDs.

All this being said, Golden fully acknowledged that things needed to be changed and tweaked on defense. So I don't they're being stubborn and don't adjust.. Vs UL they played a 4-3 more than in any other point in the season. They also blitzed more.
So they're trying new things. Al even said playing calling had to be looked at and that was a direct shot at the UL game when the wrong play was called against the screen.
We'll see what happens in year 4. This year will more then tell us what we need to know.