Talent improvement on Defense

The issue for me is that our defensive issue were not limited to a lack of talent - Duke wasn't three tds better than us personnel wise; they were better coached; Wake wasn't a few points from beating us at home because they have as much talent as we do, it's because they were better coached.

Look a little closer at the Wake Forest game as an example of our inability to make meaningful adjustments within the flow of the game. Again, we didn't need to make adjustments to neutralize our 2001 team or our 1988 team, seeing as you're an oldmancane, we just needed to stop a poor Wake Forest team, a team that was pedestrian even by Wake standards. What did Wake do that was so complicated? They employed wide splits along their offensive line and threw the ball underneath (crossing routes) and in the flat. They had success until the final buzzer, and as they had success they could start throwing it down field also - mainly toward the sidelines. Why did it work? Because we never put pressure on the QB right up the middle to force him to make quicker reads AND (and this is critical) we gave their receivers a free release and often played 8-10 yards off the line of scrimmage for much of the game. I am NOT a football guru, but you don't have to be to see why that is a formula that favors Wake. We never figured out the riddle of the wide splits. OMC, come on. I don't know what else to say about that because that's Optimist Ball 101. That pattern of not making adjustments has repeated itself again and again.

Ok. So you might respond, well we didn't have the talent to make adjustments, which wouldn't really be true in the case of the Wake game, but I would think would be more accurate for say FSU.

To say we didn't make adjustments is just blatantly false on many accounts.
Here are the yards per qtr in that game.
QTR 1 - 121
QTR 2 - 105
QTR 3 - 55
QTR 4 - 80

BY half
First half 226 and 14 points
Second half 135 and 7 points.

Don't know about you but when I see yardage and points go down I call that adjusting.

That's the problem with you guys. You fail to really see what went on during the games and generalize off of what happened early on.
 
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OMC no need to hang up. At this point I am just repeating myself and 82 and others in this thread. I agree with you though that some of the guys we had were not as talented as we would have liked - not going to throw them under the bus - but we could all see that.

The issue for me is that our defensive issue were not limited to a lack of talent - Duke wasn't three tds better than us personnel wise; they were better coached; Wake wasn't a few points from beating us at home because they have as much talent as we do, it's because they were better coached.

Look a little closer at the Wake Forest game as an example of our inability to make meaningful adjustments within the flow of the game. Again, we didn't need to make adjustments to neutralize our 2001 team or our 1988 team, seeing as you're an oldmancane, we just needed to stop a poor Wake Forest team, a team that was pedestrian even by Wake standards. What did Wake do that was so complicated? They employed wide splits along their offensive line and threw the ball underneath (crossing routes) and in the flat. They had success until the final buzzer, and as they had success they could start throwing it down field also - mainly toward the sidelines. Why did it work? Because we never put pressure on the QB right up the middle to force him to make quicker reads AND (and this is critical) we gave their receivers a free release and often played 8-10 yards off the line of scrimmage for much of the game. I am NOT a football guru, but you don't have to be to see why that is a formula that favors Wake. We never figured out the riddle of the wide splits. OMC, come on. I don't know what else to say about that because that's Optimist Ball 101. That pattern of not making adjustments has repeated itself again and again.

Ok. So you might respond, well we didn't have the talent to make adjustments, which wouldn't really be true in the case of the Wake game, but I would think would be more accurate for say FSU.

Well, I just re-watched our spring game last night, and what struck me wasn't all the good athletes on defense. No question we have better athletes than last year. We still need more up the middle of our D, especially at DT, but on the edges and at the skill positions watch out. What struck me was the number of shoulder tackles - players trying to make a big hit. I was trying to cipher why Walter Tucker was looking like Walter Payton, and it became obvious. Several of our guys weren't wrapping up. And, we all love a big hit, a tone setting wooo hit, but a well coached team will consistently wrap up and pick their opportunities to lower the Boom! Honestly, go back and watch Walter Tucker make a name for himself because guys don't wrap up. I'm not taking anything away from Tucker because I love his down hill running style, but my point remains: a well coached team wraps up and gets their man down. Wrap up and get off the field. Again, that's with the better athletes.

Finally, I admit that I'm not a fan of the DC's scheme. That should be obvious based on what I said about the Wake game. I tried really hard to like it, honestly, but at this point - considering the results - I believe it's too complicated and our guys are thinking too much rather than playing aggressive. If you played sports think about that statement - about thinking about doing an action as opposed to just doing the action because you know without any question what to do. I think the implications should be obvious: you play faster, more aggressively, and consequentially you are more inclined to impose your will rather than the other way around.

So, will we get better results with better players? Sure hope so, but to me, the question is what is the best system for the particular set of players we have on defense right now? Two gapping, thus far, has required all of our non-skill position guys to bulk up, perhaps too much in some cases, and so far it has left our linemen wrestling at the line of scrimmage while yet our DBs are playing off receivers. No argument from me that it doesn't help our defense if Jimmy Gaines is firing into the wrong gap or taking a bad angle, but his doing so was only part of the problem. In fact, it might well have been better to limit what he and TC and Green had to think about rather than expand it with more reads and assignments.

Anyway, I want what I think the Canes on this board want which is for us to win and again be elite, but for me their is no overlooking many of the deficiencies (including talent) that stand in the way of that.


This right here, and add in the inability to make adjustments to what your opponents are doing. I agree we've had a dearth of talent, but we've had enough talent to put a better defense on the field than we've seen. To me it's about maximizing the potential of the players you do have through development and a scheme that fits their strengths.

I doubt it. I think the Michigan State staff just did a better job finding under the radar kids than Randy Shannon did.

Unless you want to give Mark D'Onofrio credit for developing Muhammed Wilkerson, Jaiquawn Jarrett, Terrance Knighton, etc who played for him at Temple.

NO. I think Michigan State just did a better job of scheming for their talent and coaching their kids up.

We do neither.

Our version of the 3-4 (2 gap, read and react) is not what suits Miami. Miami is a traditionally aggressive in your face defense.

We don't have the horses to play 2 gap. Good coaches scheme to the talent of their teams year to year.

Even Golden said every team is different every season. Our coaches are too stubborn to change or just not very good teachers/coaches.

It's like having a pocket passer who doesn't run fast and the coordinator or coach is insistent on running the triple option. Makes no **** sense.


What scheme would fit the strengths of Kacey Rogers, AJ Highsmith starting at safety, Jimmy Gaines and Tyrone Cornelius starting at linebacker, and Justin Renfrow and Shayon Green starting on the defensive line?

These were NOT Miami caliber athletes.

I'll hang up and listen....


Im as frustrated as you are with Miami's defense last year, I mean overall we were awful and not even close to Miami standards.

I think you just need to give it until next year and see what it looks like with better athletes. Not to beat a dead horse but that's what I think.

For the Wake game, yeah we could have stunted and blitzed the gaps but that leaves you vulnerable elsewhere. The fact is we had about 7 guys starting on that defense that couldn't start for Wake.... ANY good coach will find a way to exploit that and Wake is a well-coached team.

The way I look at the Wake game is a little different from you. I see it as that we couldn't win our individual battles. You don't have to send extra men in if your front four are winning their battles. But look at Renfrow for example... didn't he come from Wake or Virginia or somewhere like that as a 5th year senior? He couldn't even start for them, but he was starting for us. You really think having that guy one gap or telling him to meet me at the quarterback is going to make a difference?

How would Alabama have played them? Would they change their base defense and start doing a bunch of fancy blitzes? **** no, they would go out there and stay in their base set, and dominate their one-on-one battles, and hold Wake to almost zero yards. That's because they have the men up front to be able to do that.

I'm much more confident with this year's defensive line than last year's.

As for our spring game.... Walter Tucker played nearly every snap against the second team defense. Was our first team defense tackling that bad? Not really.

I agree that last year tackling was a problem for us, but I didn't see anything in the spring game that worried me from our first team defense.

I agree with being aggressive, but I disagree that these guys are being coached to be not aggressive. I can rattle off a long list of teams that have two-gapped and had some of the best defenses in the history of football. I just think we had a lot of bad individual football players playing a lot of minutes for us last year. Football is a game of individual battles. If you lose enough of them, there's no amount of bandaids or fancy schemes that is going to fix that.

I forget who said it, but it was some famous football coach: You can scheme your way to a decent offense and make up for a lack of talent, but on defense, you need to have the talent.
 
The issue for me is that our defensive issue were not limited to a lack of talent - Duke wasn't three tds better than us personnel wise; they were better coached; Wake wasn't a few points from beating us at home because they have as much talent as we do, it's because they were better coached.

Look a little closer at the Wake Forest game as an example of our inability to make meaningful adjustments within the flow of the game. Again, we didn't need to make adjustments to neutralize our 2001 team or our 1988 team, seeing as you're an oldmancane, we just needed to stop a poor Wake Forest team, a team that was pedestrian even by Wake standards. What did Wake do that was so complicated? They employed wide splits along their offensive line and threw the ball underneath (crossing routes) and in the flat. They had success until the final buzzer, and as they had success they could start throwing it down field also - mainly toward the sidelines. Why did it work? Because we never put pressure on the QB right up the middle to force him to make quicker reads AND (and this is critical) we gave their receivers a free release and often played 8-10 yards off the line of scrimmage for much of the game. I am NOT a football guru, but you don't have to be to see why that is a formula that favors Wake. We never figured out the riddle of the wide splits. OMC, come on. I don't know what else to say about that because that's Optimist Ball 101. That pattern of not making adjustments has repeated itself again and again.

Ok. So you might respond, well we didn't have the talent to make adjustments, which wouldn't really be true in the case of the Wake game, but I would think would be more accurate for say FSU.

To say we didn't make adjustments is just blatantly false on many accounts.
Here are the yards per qtr in that game.
QTR 1 - 121
QTR 2 - 105
QTR 3 - 55
QTR 4 - 80

BY half
First half 226 and 14 points
Second half 135 and 7 points.

Don't know about you but when I see yardage and points go down I call that adjusting.

That's the problem with you guys. You fail to really see what went on during the games and generalize off of what happened early on.

The team was Maryland and your numbers are off, again. This is the 2nd time I've showed your dumbass this game.

1st half time of possession was 15:18 for 301 yds. on 50 plays. for a 6 yd. per play avg

2nd half time of possession was 11:35 for 188 yds. on 31 plays for a 6 yd. per play avg
 
Much better athletes in 2014.

McCord > Shayon

Kirby > Gaines

Figueroa > Cornelius

Dallas > Highsmith

Carter > Rodgers

Wyche > Renfrow

AQM > Gilbert

C. Thomas > Perry

D. Owens > Cain


Rok sad part is every single one of those guys is leaps and bounds better than the names before. Some of those guys like Perry belonged at Bethune Cookman or FIU
 
Much better athletes in 2014.

McCord > Shayon

Kirby > Gaines

Figueroa > Cornelius

Dallas > Highsmith

Carter > Rodgers

Wyche > Renfrow

AQM > Gilbert

C. Thomas > Perry

D. Owens > Cain


Rok sad part is every single one of those guys is leaps and bounds better than the names before. Some of those guys like Perry belonged at Bethune Cookman or FIU

Thats why the question was posed why were these guys who were leaps and bounds better not starting? Either they weren't or the coaches are intentionally sabotaging their own team.
 
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It is year four. If we have enough talent and do not play a lot better, it is Al's fault for bad coaching, scheme, or assistant coach hiring. If we do not have enough talent it is Al's fault for not recruiting better or bad play development. The excuses are all gone. This year Al proves to be the young up and coming coach most thought him to be, or the snake oil salesman many now believe him to be. For me, I am off the train, down the line ready to start removing the tract in front of him. BUT I will not start removing it until we see the product on the field. If we get trashed by Loserville again and by Cornhuskers, I do not want to wait until next year. Mid-season on an off week is just fine. Max I give Al is the Cincy game to show he can frigging coach. If I am AD, the discussions with Chud and Greg are scheduled for week 3 or 4 at the latest, and I am telling Donna either one gets to have Butch as coordinator if they want.

Now i'm gonna be dreaming of a Chud HC Butch Davis DC tandem running circles around the clowns we have now
 
The issue for me is that our defensive issue were not limited to a lack of talent - Duke wasn't three tds better than us personnel wise; they were better coached; Wake wasn't a few points from beating us at home because they have as much talent as we do, it's because they were better coached.

Look a little closer at the Wake Forest game as an example of our inability to make meaningful adjustments within the flow of the game. Again, we didn't need to make adjustments to neutralize our 2001 team or our 1988 team, seeing as you're an oldmancane, we just needed to stop a poor Wake Forest team, a team that was pedestrian even by Wake standards. What did Wake do that was so complicated? They employed wide splits along their offensive line and threw the ball underneath (crossing routes) and in the flat. They had success until the final buzzer, and as they had success they could start throwing it down field also - mainly toward the sidelines. Why did it work? Because we never put pressure on the QB right up the middle to force him to make quicker reads AND (and this is critical) we gave their receivers a free release and often played 8-10 yards off the line of scrimmage for much of the game. I am NOT a football guru, but you don't have to be to see why that is a formula that favors Wake. We never figured out the riddle of the wide splits. OMC, come on. I don't know what else to say about that because that's Optimist Ball 101. That pattern of not making adjustments has repeated itself again and again.

Ok. So you might respond, well we didn't have the talent to make adjustments, which wouldn't really be true in the case of the Wake game, but I would think would be more accurate for say FSU.

To say we didn't make adjustments is just blatantly false on many accounts.
Here are the yards per qtr in that game.
QTR 1 - 121
QTR 2 - 105
QTR 3 - 55
QTR 4 - 80

BY half
First half 226 and 14 points
Second half 135 and 7 points.

Don't know about you but when I see yardage and points go down I call that adjusting.

That's the problem with you guys. You fail to really see what went on during the games and generalize off of what happened early on.

The team was Maryland and your numbers are off, again. This is the 2nd time I've showed your dumbass this game.

1st half time of possession was 15:18 for 301 yds. on 50 plays. for a 6 yd. per play avg

2nd half time of possession was 11:35 for 188 yds. on 31 plays for a 6 yd. per play avg

BennuBird is talkin Wake Forrest.
I responed with Wake Forrest stats.
ADD having **** Miami82 responds with MD stats.
His peanut gallery crew proceeds with likes.
Makes total sense Bros
 
Last edited:
Much better athletes in 2014.

McCord > Shayon

Kirby > Gaines

Figueroa > Cornelius

Dallas > Highsmith

Carter > Rodgers

Wyche > Renfrow

AQM > Gilbert

C. Thomas > Perry

D. Owens > Cain


Rok sad part is every single one of those guys is leaps and bounds better than the names before. Some of those guys like Perry belonged at Bethune Cookman or FIU

Thats why the question was posed why were these guys who were leaps and bounds better not starting? Either they weren't or the coaches are intentionally sabotaging their own team.

We already told you why but you are having trouble grasping it.
 
We finally are getting more talented players on deck. Problem is the concept of operations moreso... If we run anything like we did the last 2 yrs, I don't care if we have the 2001 defense, we won't stop many teams. We need to attack, let the DL attack, play bump coverage, and let the LBs read and react. No more 10 yd cushions with the DL playing stagnant. If we get beat deep every once in a while so ******* be it.
 
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The issue for me is that our defensive issue were not limited to a lack of talent - Duke wasn't three tds better than us personnel wise; they were better coached; Wake wasn't a few points from beating us at home because they have as much talent as we do, it's because they were better coached.

Look a little closer at the Wake Forest game as an example of our inability to make meaningful adjustments within the flow of the game. Again, we didn't need to make adjustments to neutralize our 2001 team or our 1988 team, seeing as you're an oldmancane, we just needed to stop a poor Wake Forest team, a team that was pedestrian even by Wake standards. What did Wake do that was so complicated? They employed wide splits along their offensive line and threw the ball underneath (crossing routes) and in the flat. They had success until the final buzzer, and as they had success they could start throwing it down field also - mainly toward the sidelines. Why did it work? Because we never put pressure on the QB right up the middle to force him to make quicker reads AND (and this is critical) we gave their receivers a free release and often played 8-10 yards off the line of scrimmage for much of the game. I am NOT a football guru, but you don't have to be to see why that is a formula that favors Wake. We never figured out the riddle of the wide splits. OMC, come on. I don't know what else to say about that because that's Optimist Ball 101. That pattern of not making adjustments has repeated itself again and again.

Ok. So you might respond, well we didn't have the talent to make adjustments, which wouldn't really be true in the case of the Wake game, but I would think would be more accurate for say FSU.

To say we didn't make adjustments is just blatantly false on many accounts.
Here are the yards per qtr in that game.
QTR 1 - 121
QTR 2 - 105
QTR 3 - 55
QTR 4 - 80

BY half
First half 226 and 14 points
Second half 135 and 7 points.

Don't know about you but when I see yardage and points go down I call that adjusting.

That's the problem with you guys. You fail to really see what went on during the games and generalize off of what happened early on.

The team was Maryland and your numbers are off, again. This is the 2nd time I've showed your dumbass this game.

1st half time of possession was 15:18 for 301 yds. on 50 plays. for a 6 yd. per play avg

2nd half time of possession was 11:35 for 188 yds. on 31 plays for a 6 yd. per play avg

BennuBird is talkin Wake Forrest.
I responed with Wake Forrest stats.
ADD having **** Miami82 responds with MD stats.
His peanut gallery crew proceeds with likes.
Makes total sense Bros

:ibisroflmao:

That dude tried the ol switch-a-roo, shocker.
 
The issue for me is that our defensive issue were not limited to a lack of talent - Duke wasn't three tds better than us personnel wise; they were better coached; Wake wasn't a few points from beating us at home because they have as much talent as we do, it's because they were better coached.

Look a little closer at the Wake Forest game as an example of our inability to make meaningful adjustments within the flow of the game. Again, we didn't need to make adjustments to neutralize our 2001 team or our 1988 team, seeing as you're an oldmancane, we just needed to stop a poor Wake Forest team, a team that was pedestrian even by Wake standards. What did Wake do that was so complicated? They employed wide splits along their offensive line and threw the ball underneath (crossing routes) and in the flat. They had success until the final buzzer, and as they had success they could start throwing it down field also - mainly toward the sidelines. Why did it work? Because we never put pressure on the QB right up the middle to force him to make quicker reads AND (and this is critical) we gave their receivers a free release and often played 8-10 yards off the line of scrimmage for much of the game. I am NOT a football guru, but you don't have to be to see why that is a formula that favors Wake. We never figured out the riddle of the wide splits. OMC, come on. I don't know what else to say about that because that's Optimist Ball 101. That pattern of not making adjustments has repeated itself again and again.

Ok. So you might respond, well we didn't have the talent to make adjustments, which wouldn't really be true in the case of the Wake game, but I would think would be more accurate for say FSU.

To say we didn't make adjustments is just blatantly false on many accounts.
Here are the yards per qtr in that game.
QTR 1 - 121
QTR 2 - 105
QTR 3 - 55
QTR 4 - 80

BY half
First half 226 and 14 points
Second half 135 and 7 points.

Don't know about you but when I see yardage and points go down I call that adjusting.

That's the problem with you guys. You fail to really see what went on during the games and generalize off of what happened early on.

The team was Maryland and your numbers are off, again. This is the 2nd time I've showed your dumbass this game.

1st half time of possession was 15:18 for 301 yds. on 50 plays. for a 6 yd. per play avg

2nd half time of possession was 11:35 for 188 yds. on 31 plays for a 6 yd. per play avg

BennuBird is talkin Wake Forrest.
I responed with Wake Forrest stats.
ADD having **** Miami82 responds with MD stats.
His peanut gallery crew proceeds with likes.
Makes total sense Bros

Like I stated dumb****, I think he meant the Maryland game. You tried to mislead the fact with that game as well. It's your MO, twist the numbers to align to your lack of understanding.
 
Much better athletes in 2014.

McCord > Shayon

Kirby > Gaines

Figueroa > Cornelius

Dallas > Highsmith

Carter > Rodgers

Wyche > Renfrow

AQM > Gilbert

C. Thomas > Perry

D. Owens > Cain


Rok sad part is every single one of those guys is leaps and bounds better than the names before. Some of those guys like Perry belonged at Bethune Cookman or FIU

Thats why the question was posed why were these guys who were leaps and bounds better not starting? Either they weren't or the coaches are intentionally sabotaging their own team.

klanalmight's take is don't play them much during the year, then throw them in the bowl game and let them play meaningful minutes then... DOH!

That dumbass actually posted that...
 
I'll be pulling for you to be right OMC.

OMC no need to hang up. At this point I am just repeating myself and 82 and others in this thread. I agree with you though that some of the guys we had were not as talented as we would have liked - not going to throw them under the bus - but we could all see that.

The issue for me is that our defensive issue were not limited to a lack of talent - Duke wasn't three tds better than us personnel wise; they were better coached; Wake wasn't a few points from beating us at home because they have as much talent as we do, it's because they were better coached.

Look a little closer at the Wake Forest game as an example of our inability to make meaningful adjustments within the flow of the game. Again, we didn't need to make adjustments to neutralize our 2001 team or our 1988 team, seeing as you're an oldmancane, we just needed to stop a poor Wake Forest team, a team that was pedestrian even by Wake standards. What did Wake do that was so complicated? They employed wide splits along their offensive line and threw the ball underneath (crossing routes) and in the flat. They had success until the final buzzer, and as they had success they could start throwing it down field also - mainly toward the sidelines. Why did it work? Because we never put pressure on the QB right up the middle to force him to make quicker reads AND (and this is critical) we gave their receivers a free release and often played 8-10 yards off the line of scrimmage for much of the game. I am NOT a football guru, but you don't have to be to see why that is a formula that favors Wake. We never figured out the riddle of the wide splits. OMC, come on. I don't know what else to say about that because that's Optimist Ball 101. That pattern of not making adjustments has repeated itself again and again.

Ok. So you might respond, well we didn't have the talent to make adjustments, which wouldn't really be true in the case of the Wake game, but I would think would be more accurate for say FSU.

Well, I just re-watched our spring game last night, and what struck me wasn't all the good athletes on defense. No question we have better athletes than last year. We still need more up the middle of our D, especially at DT, but on the edges and at the skill positions watch out. What struck me was the number of shoulder tackles - players trying to make a big hit. I was trying to cipher why Walter Tucker was looking like Walter Payton, and it became obvious. Several of our guys weren't wrapping up. And, we all love a big hit, a tone setting wooo hit, but a well coached team will consistently wrap up and pick their opportunities to lower the Boom! Honestly, go back and watch Walter Tucker make a name for himself because guys don't wrap up. I'm not taking anything away from Tucker because I love his down hill running style, but my point remains: a well coached team wraps up and gets their man down. Wrap up and get off the field. Again, that's with the better athletes.

Finally, I admit that I'm not a fan of the DC's scheme. That should be obvious based on what I said about the Wake game. I tried really hard to like it, honestly, but at this point - considering the results - I believe it's too complicated and our guys are thinking too much rather than playing aggressive. If you played sports think about that statement - about thinking about doing an action as opposed to just doing the action because you know without any question what to do. I think the implications should be obvious: you play faster, more aggressively, and consequentially you are more inclined to impose your will rather than the other way around.

So, will we get better results with better players? Sure hope so, but to me, the question is what is the best system for the particular set of players we have on defense right now? Two gapping, thus far, has required all of our non-skill position guys to bulk up, perhaps too much in some cases, and so far it has left our linemen wrestling at the line of scrimmage while yet our DBs are playing off receivers. No argument from me that it doesn't help our defense if Jimmy Gaines is firing into the wrong gap or taking a bad angle, but his doing so was only part of the problem. In fact, it might well have been better to limit what he and TC and Green had to think about rather than expand it with more reads and assignments.

Anyway, I want what I think the Canes on this board want which is for us to win and again be elite, but for me their is no overlooking many of the deficiencies (including talent) that stand in the way of that.


This right here, and add in the inability to make adjustments to what your opponents are doing. I agree we've had a dearth of talent, but we've had enough talent to put a better defense on the field than we've seen. To me it's about maximizing the potential of the players you do have through development and a scheme that fits their strengths.

NO. I think Michigan State just did a better job of scheming for their talent and coaching their kids up.

We do neither.

Our version of the 3-4 (2 gap, read and react) is not what suits Miami. Miami is a traditionally aggressive in your face defense.

We don't have the horses to play 2 gap. Good coaches scheme to the talent of their teams year to year.

Even Golden said every team is different every season. Our coaches are too stubborn to change or just not very good teachers/coaches.

It's like having a pocket passer who doesn't run fast and the coordinator or coach is insistent on running the triple option. Makes no **** sense.


What scheme would fit the strengths of Kacey Rogers, AJ Highsmith starting at safety, Jimmy Gaines and Tyrone Cornelius starting at linebacker, and Justin Renfrow and Shayon Green starting on the defensive line?

These were NOT Miami caliber athletes.

I'll hang up and listen....


Im as frustrated as you are with Miami's defense last year, I mean overall we were awful and not even close to Miami standards.

I think you just need to give it until next year and see what it looks like with better athletes. Not to beat a dead horse but that's what I think.

For the Wake game, yeah we could have stunted and blitzed the gaps but that leaves you vulnerable elsewhere. The fact is we had about 7 guys starting on that defense that couldn't start for Wake.... ANY good coach will find a way to exploit that and Wake is a well-coached team.

The way I look at the Wake game is a little different from you. I see it as that we couldn't win our individual battles. You don't have to send extra men in if your front four are winning their battles. But look at Renfrow for example... didn't he come from Wake or Virginia or somewhere like that as a 5th year senior? He couldn't even start for them, but he was starting for us. You really think having that guy one gap or telling him to meet me at the quarterback is going to make a difference?

How would Alabama have played them? Would they change their base defense and start doing a bunch of fancy blitzes? **** no, they would go out there and stay in their base set, and dominate their one-on-one battles, and hold Wake to almost zero yards. That's because they have the men up front to be able to do that.

I'm much more confident with this year's defensive line than last year's.

As for our spring game.... Walter Tucker played nearly every snap against the second team defense. Was our first team defense tackling that bad? Not really.

I agree that last year tackling was a problem for us, but I didn't see anything in the spring game that worried me from our first team defense.

I agree with being aggressive, but I disagree that these guys are being coached to be not aggressive. I can rattle off a long list of teams that have two-gapped and had some of the best defenses in the history of football. I just think we had a lot of bad individual football players playing a lot of minutes for us last year. Football is a game of individual battles. If you lose enough of them, there's no amount of bandaids or fancy schemes that is going to fix that.

I forget who said it, but it was some famous football coach: You can scheme your way to a decent offense and make up for a lack of talent, but on defense, you need to have the talent.
 
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The issue for me is that our defensive issue were not limited to a lack of talent - Duke wasn't three tds better than us personnel wise; they were better coached; Wake wasn't a few points from beating us at home because they have as much talent as we do, it's because they were better coached.

Look a little closer at the Wake Forest game as an example of our inability to make meaningful adjustments within the flow of the game. Again, we didn't need to make adjustments to neutralize our 2001 team or our 1988 team, seeing as you're an oldmancane, we just needed to stop a poor Wake Forest team, a team that was pedestrian even by Wake standards. What did Wake do that was so complicated? They employed wide splits along their offensive line and threw the ball underneath (crossing routes) and in the flat. They had success until the final buzzer, and as they had success they could start throwing it down field also - mainly toward the sidelines. Why did it work? Because we never put pressure on the QB right up the middle to force him to make quicker reads AND (and this is critical) we gave their receivers a free release and often played 8-10 yards off the line of scrimmage for much of the game. I am NOT a football guru, but you don't have to be to see why that is a formula that favors Wake. We never figured out the riddle of the wide splits. OMC, come on. I don't know what else to say about that because that's Optimist Ball 101. That pattern of not making adjustments has repeated itself again and again.

Ok. So you might respond, well we didn't have the talent to make adjustments, which wouldn't really be true in the case of the Wake game, but I would think would be more accurate for say FSU.

To say we didn't make adjustments is just blatantly false on many accounts.
Here are the yards per qtr in that game.
QTR 1 - 121
QTR 2 - 105
QTR 3 - 55
QTR 4 - 80

BY half
First half 226 and 14 points
Second half 135 and 7 points.

Don't know about you but when I see yardage and points go down I call that adjusting.

That's the problem with you guys. You fail to really see what went on during the games and generalize off of what happened early on.

The team was Maryland and your numbers are off, again. This is the 2nd time I've showed your dumbass this game.

1st half time of possession was 15:18 for 301 yds. on 50 plays. for a 6 yd. per play avg

2nd half time of possession was 11:35 for 188 yds. on 31 plays for a 6 yd. per play avg

BennuBird is talkin Wake Forrest.
I responed with Wake Forrest stats.
ADD having **** Miami82 responds with MD stats.
His peanut gallery crew proceeds with likes.
Makes total sense Bros

Like I stated dumb****, I think he meant the Maryland game. You tried to mislead the fact with that game as well. It's your MO, twist the numbers to align to your lack of understanding.

That post that was coped mentioned Wake 7 times, AND it's your "opinion" HE meant Maryland?

82.gif
 
That's the worst part about Golden, his blind loyalty to his friend. It's almost insane, a good reason not to mix friendship and business.
 
The issue for me is that our defensive issue were not limited to a lack of talent - Duke wasn't three tds better than us personnel wise; they were better coached; Wake wasn't a few points from beating us at home because they have as much talent as we do, it's because they were better coached.

Look a little closer at the Wake Forest game as an example of our inability to make meaningful adjustments within the flow of the game. Again, we didn't need to make adjustments to neutralize our 2001 team or our 1988 team, seeing as you're an oldmancane, we just needed to stop a poor Wake Forest team, a team that was pedestrian even by Wake standards. What did Wake do that was so complicated? They employed wide splits along their offensive line and threw the ball underneath (crossing routes) and in the flat. They had success until the final buzzer, and as they had success they could start throwing it down field also - mainly toward the sidelines. Why did it work? Because we never put pressure on the QB right up the middle to force him to make quicker reads AND (and this is critical) we gave their receivers a free release and often played 8-10 yards off the line of scrimmage for much of the game. I am NOT a football guru, but you don't have to be to see why that is a formula that favors Wake. We never figured out the riddle of the wide splits. OMC, come on. I don't know what else to say about that because that's Optimist Ball 101. That pattern of not making adjustments has repeated itself again and again.

Ok. So you might respond, well we didn't have the talent to make adjustments, which wouldn't really be true in the case of the Wake game, but I would think would be more accurate for say FSU.

To say we didn't make adjustments is just blatantly false on many accounts.
Here are the yards per qtr in that game.
QTR 1 - 121
QTR 2 - 105
QTR 3 - 55
QTR 4 - 80

BY half
First half 226 and 14 points
Second half 135 and 7 points.

Don't know about you but when I see yardage and points go down I call that adjusting.

That's the problem with you guys. You fail to really see what went on during the games and generalize off of what happened early on.

The team was Maryland and your numbers are off, again. This is the 2nd time I've showed your dumbass this game.

1st half time of possession was 15:18 for 301 yds. on 50 plays. for a 6 yd. per play avg

2nd half time of possession was 11:35 for 188 yds. on 31 plays for a 6 yd. per play avg

BennuBird is talkin Wake Forrest.
I responed with Wake Forrest stats.
ADD having **** Miami82 responds with MD stats.
His peanut gallery crew proceeds with likes.
Makes total sense Bros

Like I stated dumb****, I think he meant the Maryland game. You tried to mislead the fact with that game as well. It's your MO, twist the numbers to align to your lack of understanding.

No No No HE WAS TALKING WF.

As for stat TWISTING.. We gave up 3 POINTS in the second half to MD and half the yards given up in the first.
What the *** do *** more does your unrealistic *** want with that HODGE PODGE crew that took the field that day?
I mean Futch was replacing SPENCE. GAINES was making his first career start as a Freshman. Chickillo was playing DE at 230.
MIKE Williams was starting at CB. JoJo (RIP) was switched from CB to safety.
6 true freshmans were in the 2 deep that game.. It's ***** miracle they held them to just 3 points.
No adjustments would have made a difference NONE. Thats what you baboon asses need to understand.
Look at what happened when they moved McGEE up to press.. HE GETS ***** BEAT OVER THE TOP.
OOPS there goes that.. But the arm chair dorks think they have it all figured out..
 
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To say we didn't make adjustments is just blatantly false on many accounts.
Here are the yards per qtr in that game.
QTR 1 - 121
QTR 2 - 105
QTR 3 - 55
QTR 4 - 80

BY half
First half 226 and 14 points
Second half 135 and 7 points.

Don't know about you but when I see yardage and points go down I call that adjusting.

That's the problem with you guys. You fail to really see what went on during the games and generalize off of what happened early on.

The team was Maryland and your numbers are off, again. This is the 2nd time I've showed your dumbass this game.

1st half time of possession was 15:18 for 301 yds. on 50 plays. for a 6 yd. per play avg

2nd half time of possession was 11:35 for 188 yds. on 31 plays for a 6 yd. per play avg

BennuBird is talkin Wake Forrest.
I responed with Wake Forrest stats.
ADD having **** Miami82 responds with MD stats.
His peanut gallery crew proceeds with likes.
Makes total sense Bros

Like I stated dumb****, I think he meant the Maryland game. You tried to mislead the fact with that game as well. It's your MO, twist the numbers to align to your lack of understanding.

No No No HE WAS TALKING WF.

As for stat TWISTING.. We gave up 3 POINTS in the second half to MD and half the yards given up in the first.
What the *** do *** more does your unrealistic *** want with that HODGE PODGE crew that took the field that day?
I mean Futch was replacing SPENCE. GAINES was making his first career start as a Freshman. Chickillo was playing DE at 230.
MIKE Williams was starting at CB. JoJo (RIP) was switched from CB to safety.
6 true freshmans were in the 2 deep that game.. It's ***** miracle they held them to just 3 points.
No adjustments would have made a difference NONE. Thats what you baboon asses need to understand.
Look at what happened when they moved McGEE up to press.. HE GETS ***** BEAT OVER THE TOP.
OOPS there goes that.. But the arm chair dorks think they have it all figured out..

LOL, I knew you wouldn't resist making an *** of yourself, again... I already showed you they had the same yard avg. The only difference between halves is they didn't have the ball the same amount of time. They did what they wanted to. NO ADJUSTMENTS.
 
niner I hope you enjoy talking with yourself.

This message is hidden because niner2107 is on your ignore list.
 
niner I hope you enjoy talking with yourself.

This message is hidden because niner2107 is on your ignore list.

:ibisroflmao:

A hundi says this dude has me on the ignore list and hits "view post" every time.
 
Last edited:
OMC no need to hang up. At this point I am just repeating myself and 82 and others in this thread. I agree with you though that some of the guys we had were not as talented as we would have liked - not going to throw them under the bus - but we could all see that.

The issue for me is that our defensive issue were not limited to a lack of talent - Duke wasn't three tds better than us personnel wise; they were better coached; Wake wasn't a few points from beating us at home because they have as much talent as we do, it's because they were better coached.

Look a little closer at the Wake Forest game as an example of our inability to make meaningful adjustments within the flow of the game. Again, we didn't need to make adjustments to neutralize our 2001 team or our 1988 team, seeing as you're an oldmancane, we just needed to stop a poor Wake Forest team, a team that was pedestrian even by Wake standards. What did Wake do that was so complicated? They employed wide splits along their offensive line and threw the ball underneath (crossing routes) and in the flat. They had success until the final buzzer, and as they had success they could start throwing it down field also - mainly toward the sidelines. Why did it work? Because we never put pressure on the QB right up the middle to force him to make quicker reads AND (and this is critical) we gave their receivers a free release and often played 8-10 yards off the line of scrimmage for much of the game. I am NOT a football guru, but you don't have to be to see why that is a formula that favors Wake. We never figured out the riddle of the wide splits. OMC, come on. I don't know what else to say about that because that's Optimist Ball 101. That pattern of not making adjustments has repeated itself again and again.

Ok. So you might respond, well we didn't have the talent to make adjustments, which wouldn't really be true in the case of the Wake game, but I would think would be more accurate for say FSU.

Well, I just re-watched our spring game last night, and what struck me wasn't all the good athletes on defense. No question we have better athletes than last year. We still need more up the middle of our D, especially at DT, but on the edges and at the skill positions watch out. What struck me was the number of shoulder tackles - players trying to make a big hit. I was trying to cipher why Walter Tucker was looking like Walter Payton, and it became obvious. Several of our guys weren't wrapping up. And, we all love a big hit, a tone setting wooo hit, but a well coached team will consistently wrap up and pick their opportunities to lower the Boom! Honestly, go back and watch Walter Tucker make a name for himself because guys don't wrap up. I'm not taking anything away from Tucker because I love his down hill running style, but my point remains: a well coached team wraps up and gets their man down. Wrap up and get off the field. Again, that's with the better athletes.

Finally, I admit that I'm not a fan of the DC's scheme. That should be obvious based on what I said about the Wake game. I tried really hard to like it, honestly, but at this point - considering the results - I believe it's too complicated and our guys are thinking too much rather than playing aggressive. If you played sports think about that statement - about thinking about doing an action as opposed to just doing the action because you know without any question what to do. I think the implications should be obvious: you play faster, more aggressively, and consequentially you are more inclined to impose your will rather than the other way around.

So, will we get better results with better players? Sure hope so, but to me, the question is what is the best system for the particular set of players we have on defense right now? Two gapping, thus far, has required all of our non-skill position guys to bulk up, perhaps too much in some cases, and so far it has left our linemen wrestling at the line of scrimmage while yet our DBs are playing off receivers. No argument from me that it doesn't help our defense if Jimmy Gaines is firing into the wrong gap or taking a bad angle, but his doing so was only part of the problem. In fact, it might well have been better to limit what he and TC and Green had to think about rather than expand it with more reads and assignments.

Anyway, I want what I think the Canes on this board want which is for us to win and again be elite, but for me their is no overlooking many of the deficiencies (including talent) that stand in the way of that.


This right here, and add in the inability to make adjustments to what your opponents are doing. I agree we've had a dearth of talent, but we've had enough talent to put a better defense on the field than we've seen. To me it's about maximizing the potential of the players you do have through development and a scheme that fits their strengths.

NO. I think Michigan State just did a better job of scheming for their talent and coaching their kids up.

We do neither.

Our version of the 3-4 (2 gap, read and react) is not what suits Miami. Miami is a traditionally aggressive in your face defense.

We don't have the horses to play 2 gap. Good coaches scheme to the talent of their teams year to year.

Even Golden said every team is different every season. Our coaches are too stubborn to change or just not very good teachers/coaches.

It's like having a pocket passer who doesn't run fast and the coordinator or coach is insistent on running the triple option. Makes no **** sense.


What scheme would fit the strengths of Kacey Rogers, AJ Highsmith starting at safety, Jimmy Gaines and Tyrone Cornelius starting at linebacker, and Justin Renfrow and Shayon Green starting on the defensive line?

These were NOT Miami caliber athletes.

I'll hang up and listen....


Im as frustrated as you are with Miami's defense last year, I mean overall we were awful and not even close to Miami standards.

I think you just need to give it until next year and see what it looks like with better athletes. Not to beat a dead horse but that's what I think.

For the Wake game, yeah we could have stunted and blitzed the gaps but that leaves you vulnerable elsewhere. The fact is we had about 7 guys starting on that defense that couldn't start for Wake.... ANY good coach will find a way to exploit that and Wake is a well-coached team.

The way I look at the Wake game is a little different from you. I see it as that we couldn't win our individual battles. You don't have to send extra men in if your front four are winning their battles. But look at Renfrow for example... didn't he come from Wake or Virginia or somewhere like that as a 5th year senior? He couldn't even start for them, but he was starting for us. You really think having that guy one gap or telling him to meet me at the quarterback is going to make a difference?

How would Alabama have played them? Would they change their base defense and start doing a bunch of fancy blitzes? **** no, they would go out there and stay in their base set, and dominate their one-on-one battles, and hold Wake to almost zero yards. That's because they have the men up front to be able to do that.

I'm much more confident with this year's defensive line than last year's.

As for our spring game.... Walter Tucker played nearly every snap against the second team defense. Was our first team defense tackling that bad? Not really.

I agree that last year tackling was a problem for us, but I didn't see anything in the spring game that worried me from our first team defense.

I agree with being aggressive, but I disagree that these guys are being coached to be not aggressive. I can rattle off a long list of teams that have two-gapped and had some of the best defenses in the history of football. I just think we had a lot of bad individual football players playing a lot of minutes for us last year. Football is a game of individual battles. If you lose enough of them, there's no amount of bandaids or fancy schemes that is going to fix that.

I forget who said it, but it was some famous football coach: You can scheme your way to a decent offense and make up for a lack of talent, but on defense, you need to have the talent.


I'm with OMC right here.
When you know it's possible you're going to lose 70% of the individual battles per play you can't do ****(be aggressive) but hope for the best. But, when you might only lose 20% of those individual battles, you can start being aggressive and changing up the look. You can send help or whatever.. **** you can't do when you're loosing battles all over the field at every level of the defense. To me scheme is the guidance system of a missile. Get closer to your target for maximum damage. But if the missile doesn't have the range(talent/speed), or a good payload (strength), it doesn't matter how good the guidance system. We better see something different this year. The defense should be able to handle 10 wins on this schedule.
 
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