Talent improvement on Defense

[Miami82]

One of the problems our team has had over the years and it started with clappy is the players thought they were smarter than the coaches. That I'm at the U now, so I'm first round talent and I'm smarter than you. Sam Shields, the junior class that left and most didn't get drafted, and Robinson's dad/him not buying into the system, was a problem. I hear the crowd saying adjust the scheme. I want to wait to see how we look with guys with a different attitude and who wants to buy into Al's system. i do believe this year's defense could be way better than 11. We have high draft picks all over the place. That's if it's not the scheme. Waiting to see.

This is the right attitude to have. Let's see what we look like next year and THEN make judgements.

This is just silly... I don't need to wait till next season. I know what we have. Yes the talent will be improved, but the previous teams did not play to their talent level either. You guys are holding onto hope with no reason to. Hope you have lots of beer to cry into....

 

[poncho0091]

Much better athletes in 2014.

McCord > Shayon

Kirby > Gaines

Figueroa > Cornelius

Dallas > Highsmith

Carter > Rodgers

Wyche > Renfrow

AQM > Gilbert

C. Thomas > Perry

D. Owens > Cain

The only problem is most of those guys were already here last year. Since the other guys were so much worse, these guys should have been playing. Why weren't they?

Were they supposed to play every ******* snap?

**** dude, go change your tampon, because you are obviously bothered right now. I was just pointing it out that they were already here. Your original post makes it sound like they were not already here and playing and that they just magically appeared and will be the saviors. Most of those guys were here last year and getting solid playing time.

You're stating that they are so much better than the guys they just replaced and I'm asking you why were they not the starters then? You're assuming these guys are going to come in and just dominate because they are on the field. I hope they do, but if they were that much better, why weren't they starting? Why weren't they getting more snaps than those guys they just replaced? In no way did I say they had to play every snap, but why are they playing less snaps since those other guys are such trash in your eyes?

You wanna meet me at a game and settle this like men?

LOL. Typical response from internet tough guys. This is why I love the Golden brigade. I asked a simple question, you can't answer it, so apparently it's time to settle this like men. GTFOH.

 

[poncho0091]

Much better athletes in 2014.

McCord > Shayon

Kirby > Gaines

Figueroa > Cornelius

Dallas > Highsmith

Carter > Rodgers

Wyche > Renfrow

AQM > Gilbert

C. Thomas > Perry

D. Owens > Cain

The only problem is most of those guys were already here last year. Since the other guys were so much worse, these guys should have been playing. Why weren't they?

Conditioning and experience.

It's a fair assumption and I assumed honestly that would be his response. The problem is this. We have to assume that they will be better than those guys they are replacing now. Based on that statement, that would mean that they were not better than those guys last year, which means that if they don't gain enough conditioning and experience to be better than those guys from last year, then we haven't changed anything. Assumptions are not facts and depending on who is making the assumption, it's an educated guess at best. This leaves us back at the beginning that we can make that list and say that our lineup is better, but in all honesty, we won't know that until they show up on the field.

 

[OldManCane]

Much better athletes in 2014.

McCord > Shayon

Kirby > Gaines

Figueroa > Cornelius

Dallas > Highsmith

Carter > Rodgers

Wyche > Renfrow

AQM > Gilbert

C. Thomas > Perry

D. Owens > Cain

The only problem is most of those guys were already here last year. Since the other guys were so much worse, these guys should have been playing. Why weren't they?

Conditioning and experience.

It's a fair assumption and I assumed honestly that would be his response. The problem is this. We have to assume that they will be better than those guys they are replacing now. Based on that statement, that would mean that they were not better than those guys last year, which means that if they don't gain enough conditioning and experience to be better than those guys from last year, then we haven't changed anything. Assumptions are not facts and depending on who is making the assumption, it's an educated guess at best. This leaves us back at the beginning that we can make that list and say that our lineup is better, but in all honesty, we won't know that until they show up on the field.

Alright well let's go down his list one by one.

McCord was too light in the pants to be an every down defensive end. He was a monster on 3rd downs though, see the UF game. One would hope he has put on some weight so he isn't a liability in run defense, but we'll see.

Kirby i still have questions about.

Figueroa blew out his shoulder or he would have started last year. By all accounts he's fine now.

Dallas was needed at running back because we had no depth there last year, and then Duke Johnson went down so he had to start. Different situation this year as he's playing his true position.

Carter was a true freshman

Wyche is a new JUCO, highly sought after, so one would expect him to be decent.

AQM was a true freshman.

C. Thomas is new to the team

D. Owens is new to the team

 

[OldManCane]

One of the problems our team has had over the years and it started with clappy is the players thought they were smarter than the coaches. That I'm at the U now, so I'm first round talent and I'm smarter than you. Sam Shields, the junior class that left and most didn't get drafted, and Robinson's dad/him not buying into the system, was a problem. I hear the crowd saying adjust the scheme. I want to wait to see how we look with guys with a different attitude and who wants to buy into Al's system. i do believe this year's defense could be way better than 11. We have high draft picks all over the place. That's if it's not the scheme. Waiting to see.

This is the right attitude to have. Let's see what we look like next year and THEN make judgements.

This is just silly... I don't need to wait till next season. I know what we have. Yes the talent will be improved, but the previous teams did not play to their talent level either. You guys are holding onto hope with no reason to. Hope you have lots of beer to cry into....

You don't know **** until you see them play a couple games. You didn't answer my question either, surprise surprise.

What scheme would make AJ Highsmith and KC Rodgers starting at safety, Jimmy Gaines and Tyrone Cornelius starting at linebacker, and Justin Renfrow and Shayon Green starting on the defensive line play well?

I'll say it again, this was NOT a Miami caliber starting lineup. These kids would not have started for Duke, let alone should they ever have been recruited by Miami. You can blame Randy for that.

 

[CaneAlmighty]

Much better athletes in 2014.

McCord > Shayon

Kirby > Gaines

Figueroa > Cornelius

Dallas > Highsmith

Carter > Rodgers

Wyche > Renfrow

AQM > Gilbert

C. Thomas > Perry

D. Owens > Cain

The only problem is most of those guys were already here last year. Since the other guys were so much worse, these guys should have been playing. Why weren't they?

Conditioning and experience.

It's a fair assumption and I assumed honestly that would be his response. The problem is this. We have to assume that they will be better than those guys they are replacing now. Based on that statement, that would mean that they were not better than those guys last year, which means that if they don't gain enough conditioning and experience to be better than those guys from last year, then we haven't changed anything. Assumptions are not facts and depending on who is making the assumption, it's an educated guess at best. This leaves us back at the beginning that we can make that list and say that our lineup is better, but in all honesty, we won't know that until they show up on the field.

If you dont think Carter, McCord, AQM, Kirby, Figeroua, Dallas are better than the players than they are replacing because "they didn't start over them" as last year is blatant stupidity on your part. And that's putting it nicely. It's just you choosing to be negative about this season despite the many reasons not to be.

As has been stated, many reasons why the lackluster group of seniors saw more time than the more talented players that will be replacing them. Experience, Leadership, knowledge, Size etc were all factors. Golden was playing a zero sum game. The defense would not have fared any better, and probably worse, had the younger more talented yet inexperienced and less physically mature players started over the more knowledgeable Experienced more physically and mentally mature seniors.
But yeah if you want to think along your simplistic thinking it just leaves your football acumen a lot to be desired.

 

[Miami82]

One of the problems our team has had over the years and it started with clappy is the players thought they were smarter than the coaches. That I'm at the U now, so I'm first round talent and I'm smarter than you. Sam Shields, the junior class that left and most didn't get drafted, and Robinson's dad/him not buying into the system, was a problem. I hear the crowd saying adjust the scheme. I want to wait to see how we look with guys with a different attitude and who wants to buy into Al's system. i do believe this year's defense could be way better than 11. We have high draft picks all over the place. That's if it's not the scheme. Waiting to see.

This is the right attitude to have. Let's see what we look like next year and THEN make judgements.

This is just silly... I don't need to wait till next season. I know what we have. Yes the talent will be improved, but the previous teams did not play to their talent level either. You guys are holding onto hope with no reason to. Hope you have lots of beer to cry into....

You don't know **** until you see them play a couple games. You didn't answer my question either, surprise surprise.

What scheme would make AJ Highsmith and KC Rodgers starting at safety, Jimmy Gaines and Tyrone Cornelius starting at linebacker, and Justin Renfrow and Shayon Green starting on the defensive line play well?

I'll say it again, this was NOT a Miami caliber starting lineup. These kids would not have started for Duke, let alone should they ever have been recruited by Miami. You can blame Randy for that.

LOL, it doesn't take 3 more years or even a couple games, well obviously for you it may, to see we make zero adjustments when a team is gashing us, or steadily moving the rock down the field on us. You really think better talent is going to make this scheme work now?

As for the talent level, Golden has been here going on 4 years. In his previous recruiting classes he couldn't recruit players to replace the players you named? So you are saying he can't recruit either? Man are we in deep ****. Can't coach, can't recruit.

And BTW, you didn't address any questions to me, so maybe you should start paying attention to the thread more closely.

 

[Miami82]

Much better athletes in 2014.

McCord > Shayon

Kirby > Gaines

Figueroa > Cornelius

Dallas > Highsmith

Carter > Rodgers

Wyche > Renfrow

AQM > Gilbert

C. Thomas > Perry

D. Owens > Cain

The only problem is most of those guys were already here last year. Since the other guys were so much worse, these guys should have been playing. Why weren't they?

Conditioning and experience.

It's a fair assumption and I assumed honestly that would be his response. The problem is this. We have to assume that they will be better than those guys they are replacing now. Based on that statement, that would mean that they were not better than those guys last year, which means that if they don't gain enough conditioning and experience to be better than those guys from last year, then we haven't changed anything. Assumptions are not facts and depending on who is making the assumption, it's an educated guess at best. This leaves us back at the beginning that we can make that list and say that our lineup is better, but in all honesty, we won't know that until they show up on the field.

If you dont think Carter, McCord, AQM, Kirby, Figeroua, Dallas are better than the players than they are replacing because "they didn't start over them" as last year is blatant stupidity on your part. And that's putting it nicely. It's just you choosing to be negative about this season despite the many reasons not to be.

As has been stated, many reasons why the lackluster group of seniors saw more time than the more talented players that will be replacing them. Experience, Leadership, knowledge, Size etc were all factors. Golden was playing a zero sum game. The defense would not have fared any better, and probably worse, had the younger more talented yet inexperienced and less physically mature players started over the more knowledgeable Experienced more physically and mentally mature seniors.
But yeah if you want to think along your simplistic thinking it just leaves your football acumen a lot to be desired.

Holy **** klanalmighty... 91 runs circles around your football acumen as you call it. Sucking Golden off doesn't mean you know jack about football. Just makes you a **********.

 

[OldManCane]

One of the problems our team has had over the years and it started with clappy is the players thought they were smarter than the coaches. That I'm at the U now, so I'm first round talent and I'm smarter than you. Sam Shields, the junior class that left and most didn't get drafted, and Robinson's dad/him not buying into the system, was a problem. I hear the crowd saying adjust the scheme. I want to wait to see how we look with guys with a different attitude and who wants to buy into Al's system. i do believe this year's defense could be way better than 11. We have high draft picks all over the place. That's if it's not the scheme. Waiting to see.

This is the right attitude to have. Let's see what we look like next year and THEN make judgements.

This is just silly... I don't need to wait till next season. I know what we have. Yes the talent will be improved, but the previous teams did not play to their talent level either. You guys are holding onto hope with no reason to. Hope you have lots of beer to cry into....

You don't know **** until you see them play a couple games. You didn't answer my question either, surprise surprise.

What scheme would make AJ Highsmith and KC Rodgers starting at safety, Jimmy Gaines and Tyrone Cornelius starting at linebacker, and Justin Renfrow and Shayon Green starting on the defensive line play well?

I'll say it again, this was NOT a Miami caliber starting lineup. These kids would not have started for Duke, let alone should they ever have been recruited by Miami. You can blame Randy for that.

LOL, it doesn't take 3 more years or even a couple games, well obviously for you it may, to see we make zero adjustments when a team is gashing us, or steadily moving the rock down the field on us. You really think better talent is going to make this scheme work now?

As for the talent level, Golden has been here going on 4 years. In his previous recruiting classes he couldn't recruit players to replace the players you named? So you are saying he can't recruit either? Man are we in deep ****. Can't coach, can't recruit.

And BTW, you didn't address any questions to me, so maybe you should start paying attention to the thread more closely.

Let's be clear, I'm not saying Golden is a schematic genius. I'm saying we haven't seen enough to judge anyone at this point.

It's not fair to judge Golden/D'Onofrio when what they had to work with was AJ Highsmith, KC Rodgers, Jimmy Gaines, Tyrone Cornelius, Justin Renfrow and Shayon Green all on our starting defense.

Vince Lombardi couldn't make that defense work.

Was Golden too loyal to his seniors? Maybe. Not sure that was a bad thing. A lot of those guys stuck with the team even when you didn't know what the sanctions were going to be or anything. Not sure what would have happened to the locker room if those guys were all benched.

Time will tell. Next year, there isn't any talent excuse. We have enough talent to win the coastal and to win at least 8 games.... that's the benchmark for me.

In fact, we'll see on Labor Day how far this team has come. By rights, we should be a more talented team than Louisville next year, so let's see what this staff/team have to show us.

 

[Miami82]

This is the right attitude to have. Let's see what we look like next year and THEN make judgements.

This is just silly... I don't need to wait till next season. I know what we have. Yes the talent will be improved, but the previous teams did not play to their talent level either. You guys are holding onto hope with no reason to. Hope you have lots of beer to cry into....

You don't know **** until you see them play a couple games. You didn't answer my question either, surprise surprise.

What scheme would make AJ Highsmith and KC Rodgers starting at safety, Jimmy Gaines and Tyrone Cornelius starting at linebacker, and Justin Renfrow and Shayon Green starting on the defensive line play well?

I'll say it again, this was NOT a Miami caliber starting lineup. These kids would not have started for Duke, let alone should they ever have been recruited by Miami. You can blame Randy for that.

LOL, it doesn't take 3 more years or even a couple games, well obviously for you it may, to see we make zero adjustments when a team is gashing us, or steadily moving the rock down the field on us. You really think better talent is going to make this scheme work now?

As for the talent level, Golden has been here going on 4 years. In his previous recruiting classes he couldn't recruit players to replace the players you named? So you are saying he can't recruit either? Man are we in deep ****. Can't coach, can't recruit.

And BTW, you didn't address any questions to me, so maybe you should start paying attention to the thread more closely.

Let's be clear, I'm not saying Golden is a schematic genius. I'm saying we haven't seen enough to judge anyone at this point.

It's not fair to judge Golden/D'Onofrio when what they had to work with was AJ Highsmith, KC Rodgers, Jimmy Gaines, Tyrone Cornelius, Justin Renfrow and Shayon Green all on our starting defense.

Vince Lombardi couldn't make that defense work.

Was Golden too loyal to his seniors? Maybe. Not sure that was a bad thing. A lot of those guys stuck with the team even when you didn't know what the sanctions were going to be or anything. Not sure what would have happened to the locker room if those guys were all benched.

Time will tell. Next year, there isn't any talent excuse. We have enough talent to win the coastal and to win at least 8 games.... that's the benchmark for me.

In fact, we'll see on Labor Day how far this team has come. By rights, we should be a more talented team than Louisville next year, so let's see what this staff/team have to show us.

It is what it is. I can guarantee you Golden will never get us to elite again running this D. Won't happen. We are going to become a 8-10 win team with the occasional BCS game. We won't make the playoffs. Golden will get this team better. He just will never be elite and I mean we won't win another NC under him.

 

[CaneAlmighty]

The only problem is most of those guys were already here last year. Since the other guys were so much worse, these guys should have been playing. Why weren't they?

Conditioning and experience.

It's a fair assumption and I assumed honestly that would be his response. The problem is this. We have to assume that they will be better than those guys they are replacing now. Based on that statement, that would mean that they were not better than those guys last year, which means that if they don't gain enough conditioning and experience to be better than those guys from last year, then we haven't changed anything. Assumptions are not facts and depending on who is making the assumption, it's an educated guess at best. This leaves us back at the beginning that we can make that list and say that our lineup is better, but in all honesty, we won't know that until they show up on the field.

If you dont think Carter, McCord, AQM, Kirby, Figeroua, Dallas are better than the players than they are replacing because "they didn't start over them" as last year is blatant stupidity on your part. And that's putting it nicely. It's just you choosing to be negative about this season despite the many reasons not to be.

As has been stated, many reasons why the lackluster group of seniors saw more time than the more talented players that will be replacing them. Experience, Leadership, knowledge, Size etc were all factors. Golden was playing a zero sum game. The defense would not have fared any better, and probably worse, had the younger more talented yet inexperienced and less physically mature players started over the more knowledgeable Experienced more physically and mentally mature seniors.
But yeah if you want to think along your simplistic thinking it just leaves your football acumen a lot to be desired.

Holy **** klanalmighty... 91 runs circles around your football acumen as you call it. Sucking Golden off doesn't mean you know jack about football. Just makes you a ****sucker.

 

[Miami82]

Conditioning and experience.

It's a fair assumption and I assumed honestly that would be his response. The problem is this. We have to assume that they will be better than those guys they are replacing now. Based on that statement, that would mean that they were not better than those guys last year, which means that if they don't gain enough conditioning and experience to be better than those guys from last year, then we haven't changed anything. Assumptions are not facts and depending on who is making the assumption, it's an educated guess at best. This leaves us back at the beginning that we can make that list and say that our lineup is better, but in all honesty, we won't know that until they show up on the field.

If you dont think Carter, McCord, AQM, Kirby, Figeroua, Dallas are better than the players than they are replacing because "they didn't start over them" as last year is blatant stupidity on your part. And that's putting it nicely. It's just you choosing to be negative about this season despite the many reasons not to be.

As has been stated, many reasons why the lackluster group of seniors saw more time than the more talented players that will be replacing them. Experience, Leadership, knowledge, Size etc were all factors. Golden was playing a zero sum game. The defense would not have fared any better, and probably worse, had the younger more talented yet inexperienced and less physically mature players started over the more knowledgeable Experienced more physically and mentally mature seniors.
But yeah if you want to think along your simplistic thinking it just leaves your football acumen a lot to be desired.

Holy **** klanalmighty... 91 runs circles around your football acumen as you call it. Sucking Golden off doesn't mean you know jack about football. Just makes you a ****sucker.

ah, aren't you cute. Trying to use my own play on me.

 

[OldManCane]

This is just silly... I don't need to wait till next season. I know what we have. Yes the talent will be improved, but the previous teams did not play to their talent level either. You guys are holding onto hope with no reason to. Hope you have lots of beer to cry into....

You don't know **** until you see them play a couple games. You didn't answer my question either, surprise surprise.

What scheme would make AJ Highsmith and KC Rodgers starting at safety, Jimmy Gaines and Tyrone Cornelius starting at linebacker, and Justin Renfrow and Shayon Green starting on the defensive line play well?

I'll say it again, this was NOT a Miami caliber starting lineup. These kids would not have started for Duke, let alone should they ever have been recruited by Miami. You can blame Randy for that.

LOL, it doesn't take 3 more years or even a couple games, well obviously for you it may, to see we make zero adjustments when a team is gashing us, or steadily moving the rock down the field on us. You really think better talent is going to make this scheme work now?

As for the talent level, Golden has been here going on 4 years. In his previous recruiting classes he couldn't recruit players to replace the players you named? So you are saying he can't recruit either? Man are we in deep ****. Can't coach, can't recruit.

And BTW, you didn't address any questions to me, so maybe you should start paying attention to the thread more closely.

Let's be clear, I'm not saying Golden is a schematic genius. I'm saying we haven't seen enough to judge anyone at this point.

It's not fair to judge Golden/D'Onofrio when what they had to work with was AJ Highsmith, KC Rodgers, Jimmy Gaines, Tyrone Cornelius, Justin Renfrow and Shayon Green all on our starting defense.

Vince Lombardi couldn't make that defense work.

Was Golden too loyal to his seniors? Maybe. Not sure that was a bad thing. A lot of those guys stuck with the team even when you didn't know what the sanctions were going to be or anything. Not sure what would have happened to the locker room if those guys were all benched.

Time will tell. Next year, there isn't any talent excuse. We have enough talent to win the coastal and to win at least 8 games.... that's the benchmark for me.

In fact, we'll see on Labor Day how far this team has come. By rights, we should be a more talented team than Louisville next year, so let's see what this staff/team have to show us.

It is what it is. I can guarantee you Golden will never get us to elite again running this D. Won't happen. We are going to become a 8-10 win team with the occasional BCS game. We won't make the playoffs. Golden will get this team better. He just will never be elite and I mean we won't win another NC under him.

We need to recruit a lot better to get to that level. We're moving in the right direction but it's like grandma on the highway... SLOW

 

[poncho0091]

Much better athletes in 2014.

McCord > Shayon

Kirby > Gaines

Figueroa > Cornelius

Dallas > Highsmith

Carter > Rodgers

Wyche > Renfrow

AQM > Gilbert

C. Thomas > Perry

D. Owens > Cain

The only problem is most of those guys were already here last year. Since the other guys were so much worse, these guys should have been playing. Why weren't they?

Conditioning and experience.

It's a fair assumption and I assumed honestly that would be his response. The problem is this. We have to assume that they will be better than those guys they are replacing now. Based on that statement, that would mean that they were not better than those guys last year, which means that if they don't gain enough conditioning and experience to be better than those guys from last year, then we haven't changed anything. Assumptions are not facts and depending on who is making the assumption, it's an educated guess at best. This leaves us back at the beginning that we can make that list and say that our lineup is better, but in all honesty, we won't know that until they show up on the field.

Alright well let's go down his list one by one.

McCord was too light in the pants to be an every down defensive end. He was a monster on 3rd downs though, see the UF game. One would hope he has put on some weight so he isn't a liability in run defense, but we'll see.

Kirby i still have questions about.

Figueroa blew out his shoulder or he would have started last year. By all accounts he's fine now.

Dallas was needed at running back because we had no depth there last year, and then Duke Johnson went down so he had to start. Different situation this year as he's playing his true position.

Carter was a true freshman

Wyche is a new JUCO, highly sought after, so one would expect him to be decent.

AQM was a true freshman.

C. Thomas is new to the team

D. Owens is new to the team

That's the thing, I know these things, and I never said I disagreed with the assumptions. The problem I have is how badly people on here rag on those guys that just left about how they were basically garbage on the field not good enough to suit up for duke, but then they praise the talent of the guys who are replacing them as if they were already better than those guys. Problem is, we can only assume these guys will be better as opposed to rokulika's original post basically saying we will be better, because those guys are better, even though they couldn't overtake them on the depth chart. I love what Mccord and AQM bring in the pass rush, but there is a reason they could not overtake the guys that just left. We don't know if Kirby is better, but we can assume. How do we know Figs doesn't blow out his shoulder again? We talk about Wyche being a highly sought out recruit, but noone is mentioning Sandland who was also highly sought out. Highly sought out does not equal success. We have 3 new freshman who are just that, freshman.

All this equals up to we don't know what we have coming up. We have the potential these guys were recruited with and occasionally showed in their limited playing time, but they might not be able to maintain that as starters. As I said, they didn't start over the guys they are replacing, so either those guys were not as bad as people are trying to make them out to be, or the these guys weren't or may still not be better than them yet. I believe they will be, but lets not state this as some kind of fact just so we can downplay the guys who just left.

 

[poncho0091]

Much better athletes in 2014.

McCord > Shayon

Kirby > Gaines

Figueroa > Cornelius

Dallas > Highsmith

Carter > Rodgers

Wyche > Renfrow

AQM > Gilbert

C. Thomas > Perry

D. Owens > Cain

The only problem is most of those guys were already here last year. Since the other guys were so much worse, these guys should have been playing. Why weren't they?

Conditioning and experience.

It's a fair assumption and I assumed honestly that would be his response. The problem is this. We have to assume that they will be better than those guys they are replacing now. Based on that statement, that would mean that they were not better than those guys last year, which means that if they don't gain enough conditioning and experience to be better than those guys from last year, then we haven't changed anything. Assumptions are not facts and depending on who is making the assumption, it's an educated guess at best. This leaves us back at the beginning that we can make that list and say that our lineup is better, but in all honesty, we won't know that until they show up on the field.

If you dont think Carter, McCord, AQM, Kirby, Figeroua, Dallas are better than the players than they are replacing because "they didn't start over them" as last year is blatant stupidity on your part. And that's putting it nicely. It's just you choosing to be negative about this season despite the many reasons not to be.

As has been stated, many reasons why the lackluster group of seniors saw more time than the more talented players that will be replacing them. Experience, Leadership, knowledge, Size etc were all factors. Golden was playing a zero sum game. The defense would not have fared any better, and probably worse, had the younger more talented yet inexperienced and less physically mature players started over the more knowledgeable Experienced more physically and mentally mature seniors.
But yeah if you want to think along your simplistic thinking it just leaves your football acumen a lot to be desired.

I never said I don't think these guys will or won't be better. I believe they will, but wasn't I just told by you and your buddies that personal opinion is not a fact in another thread? So personal opinion matters when it supports you, but personal opinion is not a fact when I say it. I'm not being negative towards anything in this season, but I don't put blind faith in everything either. I asked a simple question that the only person who could discuss it like a reasonable person is Oldmancane. I'm sorry to say, but what's blatantly stupid is to assume that these guys who were not in a position to gain so much leadership, since they were on the bench more than the guys who apparently sucked so bad they couldn't play for Duke, all of a sudden learned how to be leaders. They couldn't overtake guys who in most of your eyes couldn't even play for Duke (which means those guys sucked), but now they are supposed to magically jump in the next year and be the saviors to get us to the top which we apparently know is a fact.

Don't get my words twisted. I believe these players will be better than those guys leaving, but I'm not naive enough (or blatantly stupid) to crown them when 1 year before they couldn't start over those same guys. I believe and have hope they will be better than those guys, but then question how much better, because if they were that much better as we are hyping them, they should have overtaken at least a few of them last year as starters.

 

[OldManCane]

The only problem is most of those guys were already here last year. Since the other guys were so much worse, these guys should have been playing. Why weren't they?

Conditioning and experience.

It's a fair assumption and I assumed honestly that would be his response. The problem is this. We have to assume that they will be better than those guys they are replacing now. Based on that statement, that would mean that they were not better than those guys last year, which means that if they don't gain enough conditioning and experience to be better than those guys from last year, then we haven't changed anything. Assumptions are not facts and depending on who is making the assumption, it's an educated guess at best. This leaves us back at the beginning that we can make that list and say that our lineup is better, but in all honesty, we won't know that until they show up on the field.

Alright well let's go down his list one by one.

McCord was too light in the pants to be an every down defensive end. He was a monster on 3rd downs though, see the UF game. One would hope he has put on some weight so he isn't a liability in run defense, but we'll see.

Kirby i still have questions about.

Figueroa blew out his shoulder or he would have started last year. By all accounts he's fine now.

Dallas was needed at running back because we had no depth there last year, and then Duke Johnson went down so he had to start. Different situation this year as he's playing his true position.

Carter was a true freshman

Wyche is a new JUCO, highly sought after, so one would expect him to be decent.

AQM was a true freshman.

C. Thomas is new to the team

D. Owens is new to the team

That's the thing, I know these things, and I never said I disagreed with the assumptions. The problem I have is how badly people on here rag on those guys that just left about how they were basically garbage on the field not good enough to suit up for duke, but then they praise the talent of the guys who are replacing them as if they were already better than those guys. Problem is, we can only assume these guys will be better as opposed to rokulika's original post basically saying we will be better, because those guys are better, even though they couldn't overtake them on the depth chart. I love what Mccord and AQM bring in the pass rush, but there is a reason they could not overtake the guys that just left. We don't know if Kirby is better, but we can assume. How do we know Figs doesn't blow out his shoulder again? We talk about Wyche being a highly sought out recruit, but noone is mentioning Sandland who was also highly sought out. Highly sought out does not equal success. We have 3 new freshman who are just that, freshman.

All this equals up to we don't know what we have coming up. We have the potential these guys were recruited with and occasionally showed in their limited playing time, but they might not be able to maintain that as starters. As I said, they didn't start over the guys they are replacing, so either those guys were not as bad as people are trying to make them out to be, or the these guys weren't or may still not be better than them yet. I believe they will be, but lets not state this as some kind of fact just so we can downplay the guys who just left.

We don't KNOW these kids will be any better than last year's group, but ultimately, the point is that the fan base does have reason to be OPTIMISTIC.

From what we DO know... the star rankings of the kids coming out of high school and the poor performance of most of the kids who left... it's logical and reasonable to ASSUME we will see an improvement.

 

[Bennubird]

OMC no need to hang up. At this point I am just repeating myself and 82 and others in this thread. I agree with you though that some of the guys we had were not as talented as we would have liked - not going to throw them under the bus - but we could all see that.

The issue for me is that our defensive issue were not limited to a lack of talent - Duke wasn't three tds better than us personnel wise; they were better coached; Wake wasn't a few points from beating us at home because they have as much talent as we do, it's because they were better coached.

Look a little closer at the Wake Forest game as an example of our inability to make meaningful adjustments within the flow of the game. Again, we didn't need to make adjustments to neutralize our 2001 team or our 1988 team, seeing as you're an oldmancane, we just needed to stop a poor Wake Forest team, a team that was pedestrian even by Wake standards. What did Wake do that was so complicated? They employed wide splits along their offensive line and threw the ball underneath (crossing routes) and in the flat. They had success until the final buzzer, and as they had success they could start throwing it down field also - mainly toward the sidelines. Why did it work? Because we never put pressure on the QB right up the middle to force him to make quicker reads AND (and this is critical) we gave their receivers a free release and often played 8-10 yards off the line of scrimmage for much of the game. I am NOT a football guru, but you don't have to be to see why that is a formula that favors Wake. We never figured out the riddle of the wide splits. OMC, come on. I don't know what else to say about that because that's Optimist Ball 101. That pattern of not making adjustments has repeated itself again and again.

Ok. So you might respond, well we didn't have the talent to make adjustments, which wouldn't really be true in the case of the Wake game, but I would think would be more accurate for say FSU.

Well, I just re-watched our spring game last night, and what struck me wasn't all the good athletes on defense. No question we have better athletes than last year. We still need more up the middle of our D, especially at DT, but on the edges and at the skill positions watch out. What struck me was the number of shoulder tackles - players trying to make a big hit. I was trying to cipher why Walter Tucker was looking like Walter Payton, and it became obvious. Several of our guys weren't wrapping up. And, we all love a big hit, a tone setting wooo hit, but a well coached team will consistently wrap up and pick their opportunities to lower the Boom! Honestly, go back and watch Walter Tucker make a name for himself because guys don't wrap up. I'm not taking anything away from Tucker because I love his down hill running style, but my point remains: a well coached team wraps up and gets their man down. Wrap up and get off the field. Again, that's with the better athletes.

Finally, I admit that I'm not a fan of the DC's scheme. That should be obvious based on what I said about the Wake game. I tried really hard to like it, honestly, but at this point - considering the results - I believe it's too complicated and our guys are thinking too much rather than playing aggressive. If you played sports think about that statement - about thinking about doing an action as opposed to just doing the action because you know without any question what to do. I think the implications should be obvious: you play faster, more aggressively, and consequentially you are more inclined to impose your will rather than the other way around.

So, will we get better results with better players? Sure hope so, but to me, the question is what is the best system for the particular set of players we have on defense right now? Two gapping, thus far, has required all of our non-skill position guys to bulk up, perhaps too much in some cases, and so far it has left our linemen wrestling at the line of scrimmage while yet our DBs are playing off receivers. No argument from me that it doesn't help our defense if Jimmy Gaines is firing into the wrong gap or taking a bad angle, but his doing so was only part of the problem. In fact, it might well have been better to limit what he and TC and Green had to think about rather than expand it with more reads and assignments.

Anyway, I want what I think the Canes on this board want which is for us to win and again be elite, but for me their is no overlooking many of the deficiencies (including talent) that stand in the way of that.

This right here, and add in the inability to make adjustments to what your opponents are doing. I agree we've had a dearth of talent, but we've had enough talent to put a better defense on the field than we've seen. To me it's about maximizing the potential of the players you do have through development and a scheme that fits their strengths.

As their careers went at Miami, no, but if they had started day 1 at Mich st under those coaches, who knows.

I doubt it. I think the Michigan State staff just did a better job finding under the radar kids than Randy Shannon did.

Unless you want to give Mark D'Onofrio credit for developing Muhammed Wilkerson, Jaiquawn Jarrett, Terrance Knighton, etc who played for him at Temple.

NO. I think Michigan State just did a better job of scheming for their talent and coaching their kids up.

We do neither.

Our version of the 3-4 (2 gap, read and react) is not what suits Miami. Miami is a traditionally aggressive in your face defense.

We don't have the horses to play 2 gap. Good coaches scheme to the talent of their teams year to year.

Even Golden said every team is different every season. Our coaches are too stubborn to change or just not very good teachers/coaches.

It's like having a pocket passer who doesn't run fast and the coordinator or coach is insistent on running the triple option. Makes no **** sense.

What scheme would fit the strengths of Kacey Rogers, AJ Highsmith starting at safety, Jimmy Gaines and Tyrone Cornelius starting at linebacker, and Justin Renfrow and Shayon Green starting on the defensive line?

These were NOT Miami caliber athletes.

I'll hang up and listen....

 

[OldManCane]

The only problem is most of those guys were already here last year. Since the other guys were so much worse, these guys should have been playing. Why weren't they?

Conditioning and experience.

It's a fair assumption and I assumed honestly that would be his response. The problem is this. We have to assume that they will be better than those guys they are replacing now. Based on that statement, that would mean that they were not better than those guys last year, which means that if they don't gain enough conditioning and experience to be better than those guys from last year, then we haven't changed anything. Assumptions are not facts and depending on who is making the assumption, it's an educated guess at best. This leaves us back at the beginning that we can make that list and say that our lineup is better, but in all honesty, we won't know that until they show up on the field.

If you dont think Carter, McCord, AQM, Kirby, Figeroua, Dallas are better than the players than they are replacing because "they didn't start over them" as last year is blatant stupidity on your part. And that's putting it nicely. It's just you choosing to be negative about this season despite the many reasons not to be.

As has been stated, many reasons why the lackluster group of seniors saw more time than the more talented players that will be replacing them. Experience, Leadership, knowledge, Size etc were all factors. Golden was playing a zero sum game. The defense would not have fared any better, and probably worse, had the younger more talented yet inexperienced and less physically mature players started over the more knowledgeable Experienced more physically and mentally mature seniors.
But yeah if you want to think along your simplistic thinking it just leaves your football acumen a lot to be desired.

They couldn't overtake guys who in most of your eyes couldn't even play for Duke (which means those guys sucked), but now they are supposed to magically jump in the next year and be the saviors to get us to the top....

This happens all the time in college football. Especially with "traditional" coaches like Al Golden who show loyalty to seniors that work hard.

Look at the jump we made from 1999 to 2000.

 

[Hurricane Warrior]

Much better athletes in 2014.

McCord > Shayon
Kirby > Gaines
Figueroa > Cornelius
Dallas > Highsmith
Carter > Rodgers
Wyche > Renfrow
AQM > Gilbert
C. Thomas > Perry
D. Owens > Cain

The only problem is most of those guys were already here last year. Since the other guys were so much worse, these guys should have been playing. Why weren't they?

Conditioning and experience.

It's a fair assumption and I assumed honestly that would be his response. The problem is this. We have to assume that they will be better than those guys they are replacing now. Based on that statement, that would mean that they were not better than those guys last year, which means that if they don't gain enough conditioning and experience to be better than those guys from last year, then we haven't changed anything. Assumptions are not facts and depending on who is making the assumption, it's an educated guess at best. This leaves us back at the beginning that we can make that list and say that our lineup is better, but in all honesty, we won't know that until they show up on the field.

Alright well let's go down his list one by one.

McCord was too light in the pants to be an every down defensive end. He was a monster on 3rd downs though, see the UF game. One would hope he has put on some weight so he isn't a liability in run defense, but we'll see.

Kirby i still have questions about.

Figueroa blew out his shoulder or he would have started last year. By all accounts he's fine now.

Dallas was needed at running back because we had no depth there last year, and then Duke Johnson went down so he had to start. Different situation this year as he's playing his true position.

Carter was a true freshman

Wyche is a new JUCO, highly sought after, so one would expect him to be decent.

AQM was a true freshman.

C. Thomas is new to the team

D. Owens is new to the team

Don't forget about Bush and Elder who were both hurt last year. Also Kamalu and Grace will be beasts this year!

 

[Miami82]

OMC no need to hang up. At this point I am just repeating myself and 82 and others in this thread. I agree with you though that some of the guys we had were not as talented as we would have liked - not going to throw them under the bus - but we could all see that.

The issue for me is that our defensive issue were not limited to a lack of talent - Duke wasn't three tds better than us personnel wise; they were better coached; Wake wasn't a few points from beating us at home because they have as much talent as we do, it's because they were better coached.

Look a little closer at the Wake Forest game as an example of our inability to make meaningful adjustments within the flow of the game. Again, we didn't need to make adjustments to neutralize our 2001 team or our 1988 team, seeing as you're an oldmancane, we just needed to stop a poor Wake Forest team, a team that was pedestrian even by Wake standards. What did Wake do that was so complicated? They employed wide splits along their offensive line and threw the ball underneath (crossing routes) and in the flat. They had success until the final buzzer, and as they had success they could start throwing it down field also - mainly toward the sidelines. Why did it work? Because we never put pressure on the QB right up the middle to force him to make quicker reads AND (and this is critical) we gave their receivers a free release and often played 8-10 yards off the line of scrimmage for much of the game. I am NOT a football guru, but you don't have to be to see why that is a formula that favors Wake. We never figured out the riddle of the wide splits. OMC, come on. I don't know what else to say about that because that's Optimist Ball 101. That pattern of not making adjustments has repeated itself again and again.

Ok. So you might respond, well we didn't have the talent to make adjustments, which wouldn't really be true in the case of the Wake game, but I would think would be more accurate for say FSU.

Well, I just re-watched our spring game last night, and what struck me wasn't all the good athletes on defense. No question we have better athletes than last year. We still need more up the middle of our D, especially at DT, but on the edges and at the skill positions watch out. What struck me was the number of shoulder tackles - players trying to make a big hit. I was trying to cipher why Walter Tucker was looking like Walter Payton, and it became obvious. Several of our guys weren't wrapping up. And, we all love a big hit, a tone setting wooo hit, but a well coached team will consistently wrap up and pick their opportunities to lower the Boom! Honestly, go back and watch Walter Tucker make a name for himself because guys don't wrap up. I'm not taking anything away from Tucker because I love his down hill running style, but my point remains: a well coached team wraps up and gets their man down. Wrap up and get off the field. Again, that's with the better athletes.

Finally, I admit that I'm not a fan of the DC's scheme. That should be obvious based on what I said about the Wake game. I tried really hard to like it, honestly, but at this point - considering the results - I believe it's too complicated and our guys are thinking too much rather than playing aggressive. If you played sports think about that statement - about thinking about doing an action as opposed to just doing the action because you know without any question what to do. I think the implications should be obvious: you play faster, more aggressively, and consequentially you are more inclined to impose your will rather than the other way around.

So, will we get better results with better players? Sure hope so, but to me, the question is what is the best system for the particular set of players we have on defense right now? Two gapping, thus far, has required all of our non-skill position guys to bulk up, perhaps too much in some cases, and so far it has left our linemen wrestling at the line of scrimmage while yet our DBs are playing off receivers. No argument from me that it doesn't help our defense if Jimmy Gaines is firing into the wrong gap or taking a bad angle, but his doing so was only part of the problem. In fact, it might well have been better to limit what he and TC and Green had to think about rather than expand it with more reads and assignments.

Anyway, I want what I think the Canes on this board want which is for us to win and again be elite, but for me their is no overlooking many of the deficiencies (including talent) that stand in the way of that.

This right here, and add in the inability to make adjustments to what your opponents are doing. I agree we've had a dearth of talent, but we've had enough talent to put a better defense on the field than we've seen. To me it's about maximizing the potential of the players you do have through development and a scheme that fits their strengths.

I doubt it. I think the Michigan State staff just did a better job finding under the radar kids than Randy Shannon did.

Unless you want to give Mark D'Onofrio credit for developing Muhammed Wilkerson, Jaiquawn Jarrett, Terrance Knighton, etc who played for him at Temple.

NO. I think Michigan State just did a better job of scheming for their talent and coaching their kids up.

We do neither.

Our version of the 3-4 (2 gap, read and react) is not what suits Miami. Miami is a traditionally aggressive in your face defense.

We don't have the horses to play 2 gap. Good coaches scheme to the talent of their teams year to year.

Even Golden said every team is different every season. Our coaches are too stubborn to change or just not very good teachers/coaches.

It's like having a pocket passer who doesn't run fast and the coordinator or coach is insistent on running the triple option. Makes no **** sense.

What scheme would fit the strengths of Kacey Rogers, AJ Highsmith starting at safety, Jimmy Gaines and Tyrone Cornelius starting at linebacker, and Justin Renfrow and Shayon Green starting on the defensive line?

These were NOT Miami caliber athletes.

I'll hang up and listen....

Best **** post I've read in some time.