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classiccane12 said:
Yards per attempt gives a better overall picture and can be a good indicator of future success....when looked at along with total yrds and TD's (yards per attempt alone does not really say much without the other key basic stats). And I promise you it will not be the #1 line on a box score anytime soon and there is a reason for that.
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No. Total yards and total TDs are meaningless when used to compare anything for QUALIFYING Qbs. Qualifying is the important part. Its not just comparing a 13 game starter to a WR that threw 3 TDs on 3 passes on reverse passes. Thats why in the stats I gave I have solid qualifying standards of 15 attempts/game, min 6 games, and min 100 attempts, etc. Only actual starters will reach those standards, which is who I'm comparing Rosier to.

And because y/a or ay/a is not the #1 listed stat on a box score means its not more important? Thats just dum. Besides You want to know what is the first thing always given? Completions and Attempts to get Completion %...which Rosier was *** at.
 
Brooklyndee said:
Im just asking a question here,but why do you feel we were so bad or so hit or miss in the run game?
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Poor O-line play. No question about it. And 79th is good! I contribute most of that to Rosier's 468 yards on the ground. ****, in 2016 we were 101st, 118th the year before...Only in one year out of the 5 prior to last were we ranked better than 79th in rushing.

This is why I don't buy Rosier being the cause of our ****-poor running game, and I don't blame him for our ****-poor 3rd down conversion rate. The two are inextricably linked. I'm not asking for three yards and a cloud of dust football. But if you're going to try to run the ball on 1st down, you need to get 3 yards. We haven't been able to run the ball against good teams for 10 years. We are just beginning to get back to where we need to be in the trenches and I would expect the rushing average to rise along with the 3rd down rate as long as we continue along the way we have. But we have not seen the results of this "vastly improved" offensive line I keep hearing about.

Give me 3 yards rushing on 1st down and put Rosier in 3rd and 5 or less rather than 3rd and 7+ we averaged last season, and he'll deliver much better results.

Coincidentally, and this is one of the only things you'll catch me calling out Richt for, but If you're going to call a pass on 1st down, it better be a pass your guy has a very good chance of completing. Many times we tried to pass last season on 1st and 10, and Rosie just flat missed a guy.
 
Gatorhater said:
Thanks. I like them under center also. All five NCs came that way. It is as Miami as JJs 4-3. But I still attend Mass and pray in Latin, so I trend against change. Just that Jim and Vinny were our best QBs and both were very mobile for their day. No NCs. In fairness, Kelly’s teams were not quite equal to the later ones but if our mates here are to be believed, if the QB is good that doesn’t matter.
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Kelly was injured and out for the season his third game in. Kelly would have had a great year .
 
calinative umstudent said:
No. Total yards and total TDs are meaningless when used to compare anything for QUALIFYING Qbs. Qualifying is the important part. Its not just comparing a 13 game starter to a WR that threw 3 TDs on 3 passes on reverse passes. Thats why in the stats I gave I have solid qualifying standards of 15 attempts/game, min 6 games, and min 100 attempts, etc. Only actual starters will reach those standards, which is who I'm comparing Rosier to.

And because y/a or ay/a is not the #1 listed stat on a box score means its not more important? Thats just dum. Besides You want to know what is the first thing always given? Completions and Attempts to get Completion %...which Rosier was *** at.
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I will submit that there is absolutely nothing wrong with your methodology of analyzing the passing acumen of a QB. I think there's more to quarterbacking an offense than just being able to pass, and I've also admitted that Rosier is not very accurate.

So what. We had accurate. Didn't do us any good.

We won titles with 56% Ken Dorsey, 55% Gino Torretta, 59% Craig Erickson, and 59% Steve Walsh. Bernie Kosar is the only Miami QB to complete better than 60% in his championship season.

Give me a 54-56% Rosier who does not absolutely fall off the map the last three games with an O-line that can get us in the **** top 50 in rushing and I'll show you our 6th ring.
 
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Loose Cannon said:
I'd be interested to hear your points of disagreement. And please tell me you brought a chart. @OriginalCanesCanesCanes loves charts.
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funny since you still have yet to give ANY argument to combat my chart showing Rosiers passing stats vs our 5 most important games of the season - FSU, VTech, ND, Clemson, and ND.
And thats not even including 2 games he got ******* pulled in - UNC and Pitt.

This is our 2018 schedule:
1. LSU neutral
2. Savannah St.
3. @ Toledo
4. FIU
5. UNC
6. FSU
7. @ UVA
8. bye
9. @ BC
10. Duke
11. @ Gtech
12. @ Vtech
13. Pitt
14. ACCCG vs Clemson.

Who out of this list do you honestly think Perry/Jarren/Weldon would lose to? And who do you think Rosier would lose to?
Because I'm just not seeing how Perry is unable to beat VTech this yr but Rosier is definitely able to. If your entire reasoning for wanting Rosier this year is that he is better option if the game were played today, there really is no ******* use in continuing to talk about this.

The entire reason I want a frosh QB to start - even if they don't outright win the competition - is very ******* simple. I want to win the ******* ACC. Our goal shouldn't just be to ******* win the Coastal then lose to Wisconsin and the Bowl game. And if we start Roiser, thats what we're ******* saying.
 
Loose Cannon said:
Poor O-line play. No question about it. And 79th is good! I contribute most of that to Rosier's 468 yards on the ground. ****, in 2016 we were 101st, 118th the year before...Only in one year out of the 5 prior to last were we ranked better than 79th in rushing.

This is why I don't buy Rosier being the cause of our ****-poor running game, and I don't blame him for our ****-poor 3rd down conversion rate. The two are inextricably linked. I'm not asking for three yards and a cloud of dust football. But if you're going to try to run the ball on 1st down, you need to get 3 yards. We haven't been able to run the ball against good teams for 10 years. We are just beginning to get back to where we need to be in the trenches and I would expect the rushing average to rise along with the 3rd down rate as long as we continue along the way we have. But we have not seen the results of this "vastly improved" offensive line I keep hearing about.

Give me 3 yards rushing on 1st down and put Rosier in 3rd and 5 or less rather than 3rd and 7+ we averaged last season, and he'll deliver much better results.

Coincidentally, and this is one of the only things you'll catch me calling out Richt for, but If you're going to call a pass on 1st down, it better be a pass your guy has a very good chance of completing. Many times we tried to pass last season on 1st and 10, and Rosie just flat missed a guy.
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I agree we definitely had poor oline play. They gotta wear that. I feel we couldve helped the oline though if a defense has to respect the pass. Basically all defenses we faced sold out on the run. Be it stacking the box or run blitzing. Same result but a different means to get there.
 
Loose Cannon said:
I will submit that there is absolutely nothing wrong with your methodology of analyzing the passing acumen of a QB. I think there's more to quarterbacking an offense than just being able to pass, and I've also admitted that Rosier is not very accurate.

So what. We had accurate. Didn't do us any good.

We won titles with 56% Ken Dorsey, 55% Gino Torretta, 59% Craig Erickson, and 59% Steve Walsh. Bernie Kosar is the only Miami QB to complete better than 60% in his championship season.

Give me a 54-56% Rosier who does not absolutely fall off the map the last three games with an O-line that can get us in the **** top 50 in rushing and I'll show you our 6th ring.
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Heres the problem with that comparison. Those qbs had there percentages while the offense was always wide open. We had rbs & burners at wr that with those qbs you had to respect them cause at any second they could beat you to the house. I think ahmmon will go down as an all time great. But if we dont have a qb who can keep them honest while still completing there 54% hes getting zero help. The vast majority of his completions were extended handoffs not anything keeping dbs honest.
 
calinative umstudent said:
funny since you still have yet to give ANY argument to combat my chart showing Rosiers passing stats vs our 5 most important games of the season - FSU, VTech, ND, Clemson, and ND.
And thats not even including 2 games he got ******* pulled in - UNC and Pitt.

This is our 2018 schedule:
1. LSU neutral
2. Savannah St.
3. @ Toledo
4. FIU
5. UNC
6. FSU
7. @ UVA
8. bye
9. @ BC
10. Duke
11. @ Gtech
12. @ Vtech
13. Pitt
14. ACCCG vs Clemson.

Who out of this list do you honestly think Perry/Jarren/Weldon would lose to? And who do you think Rosier would lose to?
Because I'm just not seeing how Perry is unable to beat VTech this yr but Rosier is definitely able to. If your entire reasoning for wanting Rosier this year is that he is better option if the game were played today, there really is no ******* use in continuing to talk about this.

The entire reason I want a frosh QB to start - even if they don't outright win the competition - is very ******* simple. I want to win the ******* ACC. Our goal shouldn't just be to ******* win the Coastal then lose to Wisconsin and the Bowl game. And if we start Roiser, thats what we're ******* saying.
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It's really quite simple for anybody who is not a complete ******* dumbass. One of those QBs has beaten VaTech, and the other has never taken a live collegiate snap. The only reason you should ever decide who to start is who you think can win the ******* game today.

You are right about one thing though. There's no use discussing this any further with an idiot who can't see the simple logic of starting the guy who gives you the best chance of winning the game.
 
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okay how about this. meeting in the middle, I believe this would have to be universally agreed to:

1. Start Rosier vs LSU. If he sucks, pull him and we rock with the freshman the rest of the game. If we win, it still does not lock Rosier into the starting job. Ultimatley in the long run, This game is a big one for sure, but its not the end of the world.

2. Regardless what happened in the LSU game, Play the Freshman (Perry and Weldon for sure, Jarren could get a RS) HEAVILY, even starting them, in the 3 following games - Savannah St, Toledo, FIU. We absolutely do NOT need Rosier to get many reps, if any at all, in these games. We NEED to see how these freshman perform in the game. Go QB by committee for the frosh in these games, idc. Just get them experience and film so we can make the decision on who to rock with for ACC play.

This should make everyone happy. If the freshman QBs play like *** in these 3 games (without improving), then Rosier is probably the best option and the starting job is his (but not a long rope). However if the Frosh Qbs play well and kill it, we absolutely need to start one of them entering ACC play.

If the Qbs all have the same floor, we must default to the qb with the most ability/showed the most growth/and has the most potential by week 5. Our goal is to Win the ACC, not just the ******* Coastal.
 
Brooklyndee said:
I agree we definitely had poor oline play. They gotta wear that. I feel we couldve helped the oline though if a defense has to respect the pass. Basically all defenses we faced sold out on the run. Be it stacking the box or run blitzing. Same result but a different means to get there.
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Man bull****. Pardon me but nah. Teams giving up 375 yards and 3 TDs to a QB, but only 42 to the running backs did a **** poor job of game planning if their plan was to make the QB beat them. Our run game is strait up dog mess the last 6 years. We've averaged a rank of 85th out of 130 teams. That's straight up embarrassing for a team trying to be in the top echelon of college football. No team who finished in the AP top 15 last season was worse than 54th. We were 79th. Don't try to tell me Malik is why we can't run the ball when 5 out of the last 6 years we were worse.

Malik's deficiencies passing were amplified because we couldn't run the ball and had to resort to short passes from an inaccurate QB to replace a 1st down run.
 
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calinative umstudent said:
okay how about this. meeting in the middle, I believe this would have to be universally agreed to:

1. Start Rosier vs LSU. If he sucks, pull him and we rock with the freshman the rest of the game. If we win, it still does not lock Rosier into the starting job. Ultimatley in the long run, This game is a big one for sure, but its not the end of the world.

2. Regardless what happened in the LSU game, Play the Freshman (Perry and Weldon for sure, Jarren could get a RS) HEAVILY, even starting them, in the 3 following games - Savannah St, Toledo, FIU. We absolutely do NOT need Rosier to get many reps, if any at all, in these games. We NEED to see how these freshman perform in the game. Go QB by committee for the frosh in these games, idc. Just get them experience and film so we can make the decision on who to rock with for ACC play.

This should make everyone happy. If the freshman QBs play like *** in these 3 games (without improving), then Rosier is probably the best option and the starting job is his (but not a long rope). However if the Frosh Qbs play well and kill it, we absolutely need to start one of them entering ACC play.

If the Qbs all have the same floor, we must default to the qb with the most ability/showed the most growth/and has the most potential by week 5. Our goal is to Win the ACC, not just the ******* Coastal.
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Man I'm not saying start Malik. I really REALLY ******* hope Jarron, Cade, or N'Kosi turn out to be the real deal. I really think we are good enough to win with Malik if our run game gets a little better, but it would be so much easier to win if we had better QB play than I think Malik is capable of.
 
Loose Cannon said:
The only reason you should ever decide who to start is who you think can win the ******* game today.
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So you're literally defending him this much because Rosier, a 5th yr senior, has a better understanding of the playbook 2 weeks before Spring practice is even over. ok.

What do you think Rosiers floor/ceiling is this season? and what do you think the freshmans floor/ceiling is?

Personally I think the floor is basically the exact same, and thats why i posted all the ******* stats showing how bad he was, especially in our big games. if he performed that **** in the big games, why are you so worried how the freshman will do? Thats what doesn't make any sense. It literally cannot get much worse than how he performed. thats just a fact, and why this comment still doesn't defend any of his stats from those games - because its impossible and you know it.

So unless you think Rosier is suddenly going to become accurate and play the entire season how he did 5 out of the first 6 games of the season, it just doesn't make sense to want him over Rosier.
 
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HurricaneinLA said:
Kelly was injured and out for the season his third game in. Kelly would have had a great year .
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No doubt and might had taken us to the promise land before Kosar got his chance. Just saying the talent around our later QBs was better. Jim and Vinny were probably our two best QBs: my point was that QBs alone do not win titles.
 
calinative umstudent said:
So you're literally defending him this much because Rosier, a 5th yr senior, has a better understanding of the playbook 2 weeks before Spring practice is even over. ok.

What do you think Rosiers floor/ceiling is this season? and what do you think the freshmans floor/ceiling is?

Personally I think the floor is basically the exact same,
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I really am not concerned with their ceiling or their potential. At what level are you able to perform today? Can you lead the team in practice? Can you execute the offense? Not do I think you might be able to one day. Can you do it today?

You're a fool if you'd start a guy who's never played before over a guy he can't even beat out in practice. If Perry, who has under performed Rosier in every practice and scrimmage to this point, continues to do so throughout the summer and fall, by what measure can you honestly gauge him having more potential?

You know it's quite possible that Rosier is bad AND Perry isn't the answer.
 
Loose Cannon said:
Man bull****. Pardon me but nah. Teams giving up 375 yards and 3 TDs to a QB, but only 42 to the running backs did a **** poor job of game planning if their plan was to make the QB beat them. Our run game is strait up dog mess the last 6 years. We've averaged a rank of 85th out of 130 teams. That's straight up embarrassing for a team trying to be in the top echelon of college football. No team who finished in the AP top 15 last season was worse than 54th. We were 79th. Don't try to tell me Malik is why we can't run the ball when 5 out of the last 6 years we were worse.

Malik's deficiencies passing were amplified because we couldn't run the ball and had to resort to short passes from an inaccurate QB to replace a 1st down run.
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Im not at all telling you hes the sole reason we ran the ball so poorly. Oline play was the main component. But when you compare running game & qb runs its a significant difference in approach froma defense. No matter. Its just apples & oranges at this point.
 
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Brooklyndee said:
Im not at all telling you hes the sole reason we ran the ball so poorly. Oline play was the main component. But when you compare running game & qb runs its a significant difference in approach froma defense. No matter. Its just apples & oranges at this point.
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Which is exactly why I credit Rosier in taking us from 118th to 79th in rushing yards per game more than some mythical improvements on the offensive line.
 
Loose Cannon said:
I will submit that there is absolutely nothing wrong with your methodology of analyzing the passing acumen of a QB. I think there's more to quarterbacking an offense than just being able to pass, and I've also admitted that Rosier is not very accurate.

So what. We had accurate. Didn't do us any good.

We won titles with 56% Ken Dorsey, 55% Gino Torretta, 59% Craig Erickson, and 59% Steve Walsh. Bernie Kosar is the only Miami QB to complete better than 60% in his championship season.

Give me a 54-56% Rosier who does not absolutely fall off the map the last three games with an O-line that can get us in the **** top 50 in rushing and I'll show you our 6th ring.
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I think Rosier has to do a little better 54-56%, but you're right that an improved run game is the biggest thing we need right now. Our inability to convert 3rd and short or punch the ball in from inside the 10 really held us back.
 
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