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Random off-season question regarding the 87 fiesta bowl vs Penn State

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caneULM said:
Vinny never should have played. If Torretta, starts, Miami wins. The thought I guess was you dont bench the Heisman winner in a title game.
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Dude, he had a great year. Heisman year. What do you mean if Torreta starts? The proper question was should he have thrown a pass on the last drive when Miami ran the ball all the way down inside the ten.
 
OK, we need to dispel some myths.

1. We did NOT hand off to a running back except ONE TIME in the final TWO possessions at the end of the game.
2. There were NO AUDIBLES. Watch the god**** tape. We lined up in a nearly identical formation every single time, one RB up near the line. Vinny did not audible at the line, we snapped it very quickly. If Vinny changed the play in the huddle, JJ would have been ALL OVER HIM.
3. We took a timeout right before the final 2 plays. However, it was THIRD AND GOAL from the 13. NOT a running situation AT ALL.

We need to stop it with these myths. Could we have benefits from more running EARLIER in the game? Sure. But let's not turn this into something that it wasn't.

---2ND TO LAST DRIVE STARTS, MIAMI HAS THE BALL AT ITS OWN 20 BETWEEN 5 & 6 MINUTES LEFT ON CLOCK WITH 3 TIMEOUTS REMAINING---

1st and 10 from the 20 - Testaverde completes a 6 yard pass to Alfredo Roberts, OFFENSIVE PASS INTERFERENCE
2nd and 20 from the 10 - Alonzo Highsmith runs, no gain
3rd and 20 from the 10 - Testaverde drops back to pass, incomplete

---FINAL DRIVE STARTS WITH 3:07 LEFT IN THE GAME, MIAMI HAS THE BALL AT ITS OWN 23 WITH 2 TIMEOUTS REMAINING---

1st and 10 from the 23 - Testaverde drops back to pass, runs for 4 yards
2nd and 6 from the 27 - Testaverde drops back to pass, incomplete - 2:31 left in the game, clock stops
3rd and 6 from the 27 - Testaverde drops back to pass, incomplete - 2:24 left in the game. clock stops
4th and 6 from the 27 - Testaverde completes a 31 yard pass to Brian Blades (pushed out of bounds at the PSU 42) - 2:16 left in the game, clock stops
1st and 10 from the PSU 42 - Testaverde completes a 7 yard pass to Brian Blades - 1:52 left in the game at next snap
2nd and 3 from the PSU 35 - Testaverde completes a 9 yard pass to Brett Perriman - 1:34 left in the game at next snap
1st and 10 from the PSU 26 - Testaverde completes a 4 yard pass to Michael Irvin - 1:08 left in the game at next snap
2nd and 6 from the PSU 22 - Testaverde completes a 13 yard pass to Michael Irvin - 52 seconds left in the game at next snap
1st and goal from the PSU 9 - Testaverde completes a 3 yard pass to Michael Irvin - 30 seconds left in the game at next snap
2nd and goal from the PSU 6 - Testaverde drops back to pass, is sacked for a 7 yard loss, calls timeout - 25 seconds left in the game, Miami takes 2nd timeout
3rd and goal from the PSU 13 - Testaverde drops back to pass, incomplete - 18 seconds left in the game, clock stops
4th and goal from the PSU 13 - Testaverde drops back to pass, intercepted by Giftopolous at 14 second mark



Soooooooo...when was Miami supposed to run the ball? Maybe on 2nd and goal from the 6? BUT WE WERE MOVING THE BALL THROUGH THE AIR. Vinny had 67 yards of completions against a 4 yard scramble. NO HANDOFFS.

The only time when JJ and Vinny discussed what play to call was when we had 3rd and goal from the 13.

Sooooooooo...when was all this running supposed to happen? We had 2 TOs, just over 3 minutes, and 77 yards to go.

Enough of the myths. That last interception was horrendous. But up until that point, Vinny had driven us down the field with his passing, including a clutch 4th down conversion.

Sorry, folks, that's the truth. No more myths.
 
HumbleCane said:
I Seem to recall that Vinny had had a scooter accident, which they tried to downplay, but it was more severe than most knew. He didnt fully recover and had one of his worst games.
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This!! And he wasn’t able to practice much before the game because of all the travel commitments attached to all of the award ceremonies he was invited to. It was obviously a recipe for disaster and our defense deserved better. They played lights out!!
 
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Bad Kharma all around that game. Maybe we shouldn’t have acted like clowns by wearing those military uniforms when we came off the plane. And didn’t we make asses of ourselves by not attending a joint-PSU/Miami dinner?

Another reason this was not JJ’s finest hour.
 
Applecane said:
Bad Kharma all around that game. Maybe we shouldn’t have acted like clowns by wearing those military uniforms when we came off the plane. And didn’t we make asses of ourselves by not attending a joint-PSU/Miami dinner?

Another reason this was not JJ’s finest hour.
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Watch the recent JJ interview by Roy Firestone. Literally refutes the talking points you just regurgitated about the "bad boy" Miami teams.

 
Applecane said:
Bad Kharma all around that game. Maybe we shouldn’t have acted like clowns by wearing those military uniforms when we came off the plane. And didn’t we make asses of ourselves by not attending a joint-PSU/Miami dinner?

Another reason this was not JJ’s finest hour.
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Shut the fvck up, you ignorant clown.

We didn't wear "military uniforms". Some guys wore camo. Very common at the time.

And, no, we didn't "make a$$es of ourselves by not attending a joint-PSU/Miami dinner". Our guys walked out when the Ped State players made racist jokes during the "skit" portion of the dinner.
 
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The Toretta mentioned is Geof, not Geno and Vinny was injured from a scooter accident the last game of the season. Geof threw for more yards that game for that season. Secondly Stephens offense was designed for the QB to read the defense and could change the plays. PSU defense showed a defense conducive to passing and Vinny kept trying. I've been told Vinny was told to just hand the ball off to Highsmith but kept throwing. If Geof had been subbed if even for a few plays Vinny might have recognized that running was in order and even if Vinny got pulled and Geof used we win that game going away. If I ever meet JJ I will ask him why Geof was not used.
 
A few others have mentioned it but I'll reiterate - Vinny had a similar performance in the 85 Sugar Bowl against Tennessee. I believe he had 3 picks in that game.


BTW - I was at that Fiesta Bowl game with my father.
 
SWFLHurricane said:
A combination....Bad game by Vinny....and Bad play calling (self admitted many times) by JJ.......Unfortunately, JJ relented to Vinny wanting to keep throwing....instead of putting his fist down and changing the game plan somewhat. I love JJ like nobody's business. But between the 87 Penn St game, and Ericksons garbage *** game plans vs BYU in 90, and Bama in 93 ....still gives me nightmares...
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Gawd, that 1993 Bama game makes me want to go out and kill hillbillies.
 
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Crystal Ball said:
I’m a young buck and wasn’t around for this game.

When this game gets brought up I have often times seen Canes fans suggest that Vinny intentionally threw the game.

Is this something that is generally accepted as fact by Canes fans, or just speculation?

I know it’s random and some of y’all old heads prob don’t wanna think about that game but I’ve always been curious.
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Watch the game. He threw the game. There’s no doubt about it in hindsight when you watch the tape.
 
OrangeBowlMagic said:
Vinny absolutely did not “throw the game” internationally. Stop it. He just played so bad that it sure made it seem like he did.

Also, and there are others on this board who can corroborate this, but I was always told that Vinny’s prep leading to the game was so ****** that he was not invited to several of the reunions the ‘86 team had in the years afterwards. Think about that. The HEISMAN TROPHY winner. You don’t do that if the guy just plays like **** for a night.

I’ve heard it two ways, one was Vinny got involved with a flight attendant on the way out to AZ and spent much of the week banging her and not prepping. Another was a girl that was already out there. But I know several people who believe he was too busy with a broad to properly prep.

Also, I was told that several plays late in that game were actually called runs, and Vinny checked into passes and threw a pick.

All I know for sure is the ‘86 team is the 2nd best team Miami ever had. And somehow they didn’t win a natty, with that “somehow” almost solely attributed to Vinny. Miami outgained Penn State 445-162 and lost. Read that one more time. Miami had 445 yards of offense. Penn State had 162. And Miami lost.

But yes, there are valid reasons why many of the dudes on that team don’t like Vinny to this day. And it’s not just cause he didn’t play a good game.
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I will just add Vinny had a bad gambling problem and was ****** Esther canseco at the time. You guys make your own conclusions. And with that I'll take this last opportunity to say ****vinnybitchasshoeassself.
 
LawyerCane said:
I’ll never forget that game. I watched it in disgust. I‘ve heard the Vinny rumors, but, truth be told, I have always blamed Jimmy. We had the ball on the PS 5 yd line with something like 45 seconds to go and a time out left to use. Highsmith was having a great game. We had overall out gained PS by about 250 yds in the game. Jimmy either called or at least had to approve Vinny throwing the ball three straight times (the last one of course had to be a passing play), even though Vinny was having the absolute worst game he had played all year. Terrible play calling by Miami at the end cost us the Championship that year.
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Yup
That game was retarded as we went up and down the field all night while PED U couldn’t do dik. Jimmy should have run it in w warren Williams and they win. Connie was awful and it wouldn’t shock me if he did throw game but I really think it was just a one in a million situation
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
Shut the fvck up, you ignorant clown.

We didn't wear "military uniforms". Some guys wore camo. Very common at the time.

And, no, we didn't "make a$$es of ourselves by not attending a joint-PSU/Miami dinner". Our guys walked out when the Ped State players made racist jokes during the "skit" portion of the dinner.
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This. By the PSU punter no less. IIRC, it ticked off some of the black PSU players was well.
 
g8rh8rMD said:
Watch the game. He threw the game. There’s no doubt about it in hindsight when you watch the tape.
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This is the issue I have.

Late in the game after converting the 4th down with a big gain to Brian Blades, it was like the light came on and Vinny started hitting every throw to march the Canes down the field for what should’ve been the game winning TD. Then when he got down near the goal line he suddenly forgot all that and tossed the ball up into the biggest collection of blue jerseys on the field.

It was almost like, let’s make this look close and legit when it’s really not on the up and up.

You can say, “Well, he turned the ball over a lot in the Sugar Bowl the year before, too.” But that was different. The team admittedly goofed around and partied and didn’t take the prep seriously for that Sugar Bowl. That was the whole point of the camo for the Fiesta Bowl and the statement that, “We’re on a mission!” The team took it seriously. But it looked like one guy in particular had some other agenda going on.

(And I’m not a Vinny hater, btw. He’s friends with my cousin and seems to be a nice dude).
 
ddann said:
This is the issue I have.

Late in the game after converting the 4th down with a big gain to Brian Blades, it was like the light came on and Vinny started hitting every throw to march the Canes down the field for what should’ve been the game winning TD. Then when he got down near the goal line he suddenly forgot all that and tossed the ball up into the biggest collection of blue jerseys on the field.

It was almost like, let’s make this look close and legit when it’s really not on the up and up.

You can say, “Well, he turned the ball over a lot in the Sugar Bowl the year before, too.” But that was different. The team admittedly goofed around and partied and didn’t take the prep seriously for that Sugar Bowl. That was the whole point of the camo for the Fiesta Bowl and the statement that, “We’re on a mission!” The team took it seriously. But it looked like one guy in particular had some other agenda going on.

(And I’m not a Vinny hater, btw. He’s friends with my cousin and seems to be a nice dude).
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Why not just throw a bad pass on the 4th-and-6? Something just off where Blades wouldn’t be able to make the catch? He had already thrown 4 picks. What good was the extra drama? A bet on the number of picks he’d throw? Turn the ball back to PSU on downs, a little over 2 minutes left, end of game.

I recently watched short versions of a number of games from 86. Vinny, for all his physical gifts, either couldn‘t consistently read a defense or thought so highly of his arm he took a lot of chances. Or both. Against Texas Tech he threw two bad picks in the first half, and the defense dropped a few other near-picks. The Canes won easily anyway.

And we all know his habit of throwing interceptions in the league.

Tennessee and Penn State were good teams and had excellent game plans. Miami didn’t have a counterpunch.
 
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