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Random off-season question regarding the 87 fiesta bowl vs Penn State

SWFLHurricane said:
I was around Greentree plenty in 86....Chuck was a GA with Tubberville that yr. I saw Vinny plenty that yr.....I don't believe the scooter mishap was the reason why he threw 5 ints....he practiced plenty the 2 weeks leading up to the game. And practiced against a much better D than Penn St as well.
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Fair enough, you know I trust you.

I saw Vinny the week after Thanksgiving when we were back in classes, and I was worried, as were all of my friends. You remember that spot on campus, "The Rock", where all the football players would hang out between classes, it has coral rock stairsteps, and Vinny was not looking good.

Of course, this was pre-internet, so when Vinny started the game, we all trusted everything had healed. But I heard he was non-contact and fairly limited in those 2 weeks of practices, and I heard it from multiple people at the time. But who knows, I was 18 then, maybe I should have asked better questions.

I will say, the leg LOOKED bad, maybe it was more cosmetic than structural damage though. Imagine if we had iPhones back in 1986, and think about how much I could get for an NFT picture of Vinny's leg!
 
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ItsAUThing.com said:
All the conversations I recalled over the years talked about Vinny's head not being in it; that he'd recently gotten dumped by his lady, relationship trouble, etc.

Either way, should've pounded the rock more with Alonzo Highsmith late and not put it on erratic Vinny ... but as other's have said, he was the Heisman-winner and could've just as easily have thrown a game-winning touchdown late, instead of another pick.

Canes should've won 17-14 even with that horrible outing.

Side note, good riddance to Sun Devil Stadium and that era of the Fiasco Bowl.

Lost to UCLA in 1984 season.... Penn State in 1986 season... skunked by Arizona for 1993 season and robbed in 2002 season. Only win I ever saw in person out there was 47-10 over Arizona State in 1994—a young Jake Plummer for ASU and a lot of the guys who went on to play for that great 1996 undefeated team they had (Pat Tillman, Keith Poole, etc.)
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I think that Sun Devil Stadium was literally constructed by the devil himself. I often pray that an enormous hole opens up and swallows that cursed stadium.
 
Rellyrell said:
Yeeeeeeeah, I’m a bit skeptical of “unclaimed” Nat’l Titles. There’s a lot of “unclaimed” Nat’l Titles in history.
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I understand. I hear you.

I'll just say, if UCF wants to get cute about claiming ONE national championship...
 
Does Vinny come visit from time to time? I rarely hear of him being around the program, even when his son was on the roster.
 
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ItsAUThing.com said:
All the conversations I recalled over the years talked about Vinny's head not being in it; that he'd recently gotten dumped by his lady, relationship trouble, etc.

Either way, should've pounded the rock more with Alonzo Highsmith late and not put it on erratic Vinny ... but as other's have said, he was the Heisman-winner and could've just as easily have thrown a game-winning touchdown late, instead of another pick.

Canes should've won 17-14 even with that horrible outing.

Side note, good riddance to Sun Devil Stadium and that era of the Fiasco Bowl.

Lost to UCLA in 1984 season.... Penn State in 1986 season... skunked by Arizona for 1993 season and robbed in 2002 season. Only win I ever saw in person out there was 47-10 over Arizona State in 1994—a young Jake Plummer for ASU and a lot of the guys who went on to play for that great 1996 undefeated team they had (Pat Tillman, Keith Poole, etc.)
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How soon many UM Fans forget about how Vinny Eviscerated a much better team and secondary beating OU in 85 and 86....Forget about the Heisman clinching scramble in the 86 OU game, but some of the passes he threw against them in 85 & 86 were GOAT in UM History.
 
SWFLHurricane said:
How soon many UM Fans forget about how Vinny Eviscerated a much better team and secondary beating OU in 85 and 86....Forget about the Heisman clinching scramble in the 86 OU game, but some of the passes he threw against them in 85 & 86 were GOAT in UM History.
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So do u think it was JJ, Vinny choking in the big moment, a combination of both?
 
Rellyrell said:
So do u think it was JJ, Vinny choking in the big moment, a combination of both?
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A combination....Bad game by Vinny....and Bad play calling (self admitted many times) by JJ.......Unfortunately, JJ relented to Vinny wanting to keep throwing....instead of putting his fist down and changing the game plan somewhat. I love JJ like nobody's business. But between the 87 Penn St game, and Ericksons garbage *** game plans vs BYU in 90, and Bama in 93 ....still gives me nightmares...
 
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Rellyrell said:
So do u think it was JJ, Vinny choking in the big moment, a combination of both?
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I almost hate to offer an opinion because JJ is the GOAT and Vinny was an absolute stud, but at the time most of us placed more blame on Vinny over the course of the game, and more blame on JJ for the final series.
Vinny because he was clearly missing throws he normally makes and/or throwing into coverage and was pressing to make a play.
JJ because by the last drive it was clear that Vinny was in the toilet that day and we were all wiling to accept the good or bad consequences of handing the ball to Zo and letting him do his thing.
 
SWFLHurricane said:
How soon many UM Fans forget about how Vinny Eviscerated a much better team and secondary beating OU in 85 and 86....Forget about the Heisman clinching scramble in the 86 OU game, but some of the passes he threw against them in 85 & 86 were GOAT in UM History.
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The "frozen rope" pass. Burned into my brain.
 
SWFLHurricane said:
A combination....Bad game by Vinny....and Bad play calling (self admitted many times) by JJ.......Unfortunately, JJ relented to Vinny wanting to keep throwing....instead of putting his fist down and changing the game plan somewhat. I love JJ like nobody's business. But between the 87 Penn St game, and Ericksons garbage *** game plans vs BYU in 90, and Bama in 93 ....still gives me nightmares...
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What about the ‘86 Sugar Bowl? Bro, I had no idea that was a potential Nat’l title game since PSU lost to OU & we beat OU in the regular season. We started off 7-0 & lost 35-7 to an 8-1-2 UTK team. Vinny: 3 Fumbles (1 lost), & 3 ints 20-36 for 230 1 TD.

Bro, we’re talking about back to back Nat’l Championship moments where our star QB looked like a walk-on, & JJ was out classed by coaches we were overwhelming favorites in. @TheOriginalCane: ‘85, ‘86, ‘87, ‘88, ‘89, five straight yrs we’re vying for a Nat’l title. Two of those yrs Vinny + JJ inexplicably had off games, two of those yrs we won it all, & one of those yrs the refs absolutely screwed us (however, if we kick the fg late, we tie & split the Nat’l Title).

I’ve had conversations w/ other fan bases, none knew that history. We’re talking potentially 5 more trophies squandered, 2 of which came by way of the refs, 1 by way of a computer system, & 2 by way of inexplicable game play. Hate going down memory lane, but it’s still mind boggling.
 
Rellyrell said:
What about the ‘86 Sugar Bowl? Bro, I had no idea that was a potential Nat’l title game since PSU lost to OU & we beat OU in the regular season. We started off 7-0 & lost 35-7 to an 8-1-2 UTK team. Vinny: 3 Fumbles (1 lost), & 3 ints 20-36 for 230 1 TD.

Bro, we’re talking about back to back Nat’l Championship moments where our star QB looked like a walk-on, & JJ was out classed by coaches we were overwhelming favorites in. @TheOriginalCane: ‘85, ‘86, ‘87, ‘88, ‘89, five straight yrs we’re vying for a Nat’l title. Two of those yrs Vinny + JJ inexplicably had off games, two of those yrs we won it all, & one of those yrs the refs absolutely screwed us (however, if we kick the fg late, we tie & split the Nat’l Title).

I’ve had conversations w/ other fan bases, none knew that history. We’re talking potentially 5 more trophies squandered, 2 of which came by way of the refs, 1 by way of a computer system, & 2 by way of inexplicable game play. Hate going down memory lane, but it’s still mind boggling.
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Oh trust me....I know too well...What's even more mind-boggling is the Elite Staffs we had as well those yrs. UM teams Chock-full of AA's....and future All Pros..and lose to team/s you have absolutely no business losing to....and, to make matters worse,, let Detmer and BYU beat ya a few yrs later...smh...
 
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SWFLHurricane said:
Oh trust me....I know too well...What's even more mind-boggling is the Elite Staffs we had as well those yrs. UM teams Chock-full of AA's....and future All Pros..and lose to team/s you have absolutely no business losing to....and, to make matters worse,, let Detmer and BYU beat ya a few yrs later...smh...
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Yeah big bro; I try not to dwell on spilt milk, but man! When I look into our archives & see the lost hardware & revisit those games to see WITF happened, it’s still unbelievable! I couldn’t even imagine being old enough to witness those games. I still have tears in my eyes from the f’ing Sugar Bowl against Bama, but at least I can wrap my mind around that loss. That was a really good Bama team. I can even wrap my mind around how we struggled against OSU, although we had NO BUSINESS GIVING UP A 4th & 14!!!! But ‘85 UTK & ‘86 PSU?? Nahhhhh.
 
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Rellyrell said:
Yeah big bro; I try not to dwell on spilt milk, but man! When I look into our archives & see the lost hardware & revisit those games to see WITF happened, it’s still unbelievable! I couldn’t even imagine being old enough to witness those games. I still have tears in my eyes from the f’ing Sugar Bowl against Bama, but at least I can wrap my mind around that loss. That was a really good Bama team. I can even wrap my mind around how we struggled against OSU, although we had NO BUSINESS GIVING UP A 4th & 14!!!! But ‘85 UTK & ‘86 PSU?? Nahhhhh.
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@Rellyrell .....Dudes were Rollin around New Orleans till 4am day of the 93 Sugar Bowl....Absolutely No Curfew to speak of. Couple that with a Garbage *** game plan, that played Directly into Bama's strength, and it was Goodnight Irene....
 
LawyerCane said:
I’ll never forget that game. I watched it in disgust. I‘ve heard the Vinny rumors, but, truth be told, I have always blamed Jimmy. We had the ball on the PS 5 yd line with something like 45 seconds to go and a time out left to use. Highsmith was having a great game. We had overall out gained PS by about 250 yds in the game. Jimmy either called or at least had to approve Vinny throwing the ball three straight times (the last one of course had to be a passing play), even though Vinny was having the absolute worst game he had played all year. Terrible play calling by Miami at the end cost us the Championship that year.
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Alonzo was carving up penn state .: in that final drive, jimmy should have never let Vinny throw a pass. We dominated them 450 to 150 in yardage. Shame.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
And what's your ******* point? Are you another one of the nutjobs who is going to cite that as "evidence" that Vinny "threw the game"?

What about the long completion to Michael Irvin that Irvin fumbled?

Let's see...

INT 1 - threw into double coverage:
View attachment 198862


INT2 - Vinny slips, recovers, underthrows and is undercut by the LB:
View attachment 198866
View attachment 198868


INT 3 - LB undercuts the throw again:
View attachment 198869


INT 4 - LB undercuts the throw AGAIN:
View attachment 198870


INT 5 - horrible underthrow into quadruple coverage...
View attachment 198871



So the photographic evidence is pretty clear. NOT ONE SINGLE TIME was there a "none of our players in the area" situation. NOT ONCE.

Twice, Vinny threw into double-coverage (or worse). Three times, he got sniped by a linebacker jumping underneath the throw.

EVERY SINGLE TIME, there was an intended receiver in the area.

Please stop telling falsehoods.
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Number 1. I never said he threw the game.
Two. Look at the second picture, it would have been incomplete if there weren't any defenders on that side of the field.
3. If I said be was throwing the game, those photos would .make my point.

Also, the play at the end was supposed to be a run, but Vinny argued argued for a pass, he was sacked. Sure, Johnson could have overruled him, but it was Vinny who wanted to throw it.

Vinny was bad in that game as one could be, the reason we lost.
 
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