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Pop tart bowl vs Iowa State

GrozDozer said:
Maude’s for the love of god please put these 2 geezers out of their misery.
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TheOriginalCane said:
I don't give a **** if Iowa State is ranked. And I don't give a **** about "ranked at the time we played them" either. You have chosen to overlook the fact that Syracuse is currently ranked. But, hey, we should respect you more "because you are currently ranked" when we eventually play you. I guess.

But I guess that stating facts about how trash the Big 12 is and how little we actually care about you was bound to bring on the stats nerd nonsense. Whatever. Knock yourself out. "Sagarin". Sure.

As for the rest of your "opinions" on what is happening with conference realignment, I just don't care. I'm "assuming" nothing. I know why Miami is desirable to the Big 10 and it's not limited to football rankings. I know where we'll be. I know where Iowa State will stay.

And I don't care if you are "tired of hearing about how undesirable and worthless your schools are", and it has nothing to do with "100 years ago". The Big 12 is just bad, and taking the undesirable Pac 12 leftovers did nothing to make the situation better. And, ****, I'm not praising the ACC taking Cal and Stanford, and before you forget, SMU basically paid the ACC to take them (which is looking like a pretty smart move on SMU's part).

I know, I know, you're going to play some "selective stats" games now. Like how many "ranked teams" you played. Here's the reality.

We lost by 5 points, on the road, to a bowl-eligible 7-5 Georgia Tech team that just took UGa to 8 overtimes. And Georgia Tech was ranked this season, and may end the year ranked. So that's not a bad loss.

And we lost by 4 points, on the road, to a bowl-eligible 9-3 Syracuse team WHO IS NOW RANKED. So that's not a bad loss either.

And the reason I mention this is because if the ONLY THING standing between Iowa State and being UNDEFEATED was 9 points on the road, you'd be pretty ****ed off too, and dissatisfied with playing the third place team in the crappy Big 12.

You want to tell me more about how all of the mighty victories by Iowa State are superior to going up to Hogtown and destroying the bowl-eligible Gators? Or going to Tampa and beating the bowl-eligible USF Bulls? Or beating 8-4 Louisville (a team that was ranked this year) or 9-3 Duke (a team that probably should be ranked)? Or coming from 25 points back, on the road, to beat a bowl-eligible Cal?

I don't look at "Sagarin", I look at who we beat, the quality of those teams, where and how it happened, and in what circumstances. I can't change the fact that 15 of the pre-season Top 25 ranking spots were taken by SEC and Big 10 teams, thus making all of THEIR wins (and losses) look like quality wins (and losses) while there are still 9-win ACC teams fighting to even be ranked.

At this point, I'm going to disengage. I realize you can't fathom the many, many reasons why most of the colleges in the rest of the country do not care about playing Iowa State, and do not find that game compelling in any way, even if it is possible for the football on the field to be moderately entertaining (and you can admit that the majority of bowl games turn out to be boring low-scoring and/or one-sided affairs, no matter how good the "football matchup" appeared to be when the teams were first paired).

To put this another way...if Miami played Notre Dame...sure, it might be a TERRIBLE game...but the fans of both schools would love it, and people would tune in to the that game all across the country. It's not about "prestige" or "100 years".

We have never played Iowa State, not in the regular season or a bowl game. I'm sorry if you equate this to us thinking we are "better than" Iowa State, but the reality is that WE DON'T CARE about Iowa State. The only Big 12 team that Miami fans MIGHT give a **** about is West Virginia, due to our shared history as major independent teams, and then Big East conference mates. Oh, and we've played Houston and Cincy a few times too, because we were all major independent teams, once upon a time. ****, we've played DETROIT MERCY more times than we've played most Big 12 teams.

Just be honest. We lost two winnable road games to bowl-eligible teams by 5 and 4 points.

We did not lose to 5-7 Kansas by 10. We did not lose to 5-7 Cincy by 10. We did not lose to TWO 6-6 teams by 5 and 21 points. WE DID NOT LOSE AT HOME TO NORTHERN ILLINOIS, which should be a disqualifying event in-and-of-itself.

If you think we should be happy after a season's worth of writers and coaches and CFP voters downgrading Miami and downgrading the ACC, and then feel oh-so-grateful to be playing Iowa State in a meaningless bowl, then that's for you to project your own value system onto. This has been a disappointing November and a disappointing CFP outcome, and whipping up some fake enthusiasm to play Iowa ******* State is not going to improve the situation.
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I just don't think you're in a position to look down your nose at us the way you clearly are.

That's all.
 
DriftlessClone said:
I just don't think you're in a position to look down your nose at us the way you clearly are.

That's all.
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How about you **** off back to Iowa?

Terrible state, terrible school, terrible football program. I don't care that you beat up on a bunch of unwanted Pac 12 schools this year.

That is all.
 
The Big 12 is not the same conference without Oklahoma and Texas. The perception is that the remaining teams are weak.
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
How about you **** off back to Iowa?

Terrible state, terrible school, terrible football program. I don't care that you beat up on a bunch of unwanted Pac 12 schools this year.

That is all.
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I'm going to bet a large sum of money you've never been to Iowa. ISU a terrible school? That's just absurd. I'm here to talk football. You're the one who insists on being baselessly insulting.

You got me on the last one though.
 
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Felonious Monk said:
The Big 12 is not the same conference without Oklahoma and Texas. The perception is that the remaining teams are weak.
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That is indeed the perception, but it's pretty baseless.

The Big 12 lacks an elite brand. Almost every school in the league is decent, competitive, and would beat a fair amount of teams in any other power conference. Because there aren't many punching bags, and there aren't any blue bloods, it will be rare for anyone to finish with less than 2 losses. The ACC, Big 12, and Big 10 all had losing records against other power conferences this year.
 
DriftlessClone said:
That is indeed the perception, but it's pretty baseless.

The Big 12 lacks an elite brand. Almost every school in the league is decent, competitive, and would beat a fair amount of teams in any other power conference. Because there aren't many punching bags, and there aren't any blue bloods, it will be rare for anyone to finish with less than 2 losses. The ACC, Big 12, and Big 10 all had losing records against other power conferences this year.
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I won't deny that FSU and Clemson making regular appearances in the top 10 have kept the ACC relevant, but if those two left, the ACC would be in the same position as the BIG 12, maybe with the laughingstock that Kansas is, but still.
 
DriftlessClone said:
I'm going to bet a large sum of money you've never been to Iowa. ISU a terrible school? That's just absurd. I'm here to talk football. You're the one who insists on being baselessly insulting.

You got me on the last one though.
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It's a better school than LSU. Does that help?
 
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b12 and acc are basically on par with each other. just dont have an elite brand with Clemson but even clemson is more ordinary than they are UGA
 
Felonious Monk said:
I won't deny that FSU and Clemson making regular appearances in the top 10 have kept the ACC relevant, but if those two left, the ACC would be in the same position as the BIG 12, maybe with the laughingstock that Kansas is, but still.
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I know that people in Florida probably don't watch much Big 12 ball, but Kansas has been solid for the last 3 seasons. They stumbled out the gate this year and then went on to finish with 3 straight wins against ranked teams. They aren't a laughingstock at all. The two worst teams in the league this year were Oklahoma State and Utah, who were picked to win it, and OK State still beat an SEC team that's going to a bowl game.

Financially speaking, the ACC is in the same boat WITH FSU and Clemson. All the small privates (you guys obviously being the exception) and schools in places that don't care about college football offset their power quite a bit.

I think long term it makes a lot of sense for the Big 12 and ACC to partner as some kind of 3rd unit tp the Big 10 and SEC. I think the ACC will lose some schools when your GOR expires, but I don't know how many it will be. However that shakes out, it would be impossible for that grouping to truly get left behind, and the basketball would be downright filthy.
 
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DriftlessClone said:
I'm going to bet a large sum of money you've never been to Iowa. ISU a terrible school? That's just absurd. I'm here to talk football. You're the one who insists on being baselessly insulting.

You got me on the last one though.
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Hilarious.

I was born very close to Iowa and my entire family is from a state that borders Iowa. I've been to Iowa plenty.

It's always funny when people assume that criticism must be ignorance-based. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it isn't.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Hilarious.

I was born very close to Iowa and my entire family is from a state that borders Iowa. I've been to Iowa plenty.

It's always funny when people assume that criticism must be ignorance-based. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it isn't.
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Must be Minnesota given your take.

If you're not ignorant, you're clearly a very angry person that feels a need to be dismissive and derisive without provocation.
 
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hoops156 said:
b12 and acc are basically on par with each other. just dont have an elite brand with Clemson but even clemson is more ordinary than they are UGA
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This is untrue.

The calculation is not something that is computed on an annual one-year-stand-alone basis.

The value of the schools is based on their history, their accomplishments.

And Texas/Oklahoma walked out the door with nearly every national championship the Big 12 once possessed.

Oh, sure, there's the cheap championship that Colorado acquired in 1990 after the fifth down play. And BYU won in 1984 as an independent. No, I'm not going to count UCF's bull**** claim (pre-Big-12 anyhow).

The ACC AT LEAST offsets the Colorado championship with the GaTech championship. F$U's and Clemson's championships crush the Big 12. And while we earned them all elsewhere, Miami brings 5 rings to the reputational contest.

More importantly, nobody even believes that there's a single Big 12 program capable of winning a national championship, either this year or in the future, even though the Big 12 is guaranteed a slot in the CFP.

So, NO, the ACC and Big 12 are not "basically on par with each other". Yes, when each conference plays 8 conference games, you will have exactly the same number of conference wins and conference losses across the conference. So will the AAC. So will the MAC. That doesn't mean we are all basically on par with each other.

The ACC is moderately better. And if we lost 2 out of the 3 of Miami, F$U, and Clemson, we would suddenly be careening towards no-Texas-no-Oklahoma Big 12 territory.

Acknowledged.
 
DriftlessClone said:
I know that people in Florida probably don't watch much Big 12 ball, but Kansas has been solid for the last 3 seasons. They stumbled out the gate this year and then went on to finish with 3 straight wins against ranked teams. They aren't a laughingstock at all. The two worst teams in the league this year were Oklahoma State and Utah, who were picked to win it, and OK State still beat an SEC team that's going to a bowl game.

Financially speaking, the ACC is in the same boat WITH FSU and Clemson. All the small privates (you guys obviously being the exception) and schools in places that don't care about college football offset their power quite a bit.

I think long term it makes a lot of sense for the Big 12 and ACC to partner as some kind of 3rd unit tp the Big 10 and SEC. I think the ACC will lose some schools when your GOR expires, but I don't know how many it will be. However that shakes out, it would be impossible for that grouping to truly get left behind, and the basketball would be downright filthy.
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Sir, I can assure you, my privates are not "small." I'm sure Mrs. Monk would gladly verify.
 
DriftlessClone said:
I know that people in Florida probably don't watch much Big 12 ball, but Kansas has been solid for the last 3 seasons. They stumbled out the gate this year and then went on to finish with 3 straight wins against ranked teams. They aren't a laughingstock at all. The two worst teams in the league this year were Oklahoma State and Utah, who were picked to win it, and OK State still beat an SEC team that's going to a bowl game.

Financially speaking, the ACC is in the same boat WITH FSU and Clemson. All the small privates (you guys obviously being the exception) and schools in places that don't care about college football offset their power quite a bit.

I think long term it makes a lot of sense for the Big 12 and ACC to partner as some kind of 3rd unit tp the Big 10 and SEC. I think the ACC will lose some schools when your GOR expires, but I don't know how many it will be. However that shakes out, it would be impossible for that grouping to truly get left behind, and the basketball would be downright filthy.
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This just proves the point.

Kansas IS, in fact, a laughingstock. Maybe not to people at Big 12 schools. But to everyone else in the SEC, Big 10, and ACC.

And, yes, every year a few teams are better than before, and some are worse.

But Kansas is the team that everyone schedules for Homecoming.

And just to surprise you, I have LONG argued for an expanded ACC with a nationwide footprint. I have posts from a decade ago where I was proposing an Atlantic & Pacific league, to combine the ACC and Pac 12. This is not some new thing, I understand the sports industry very well, having worked in it for years.

I am actually in favor of trying to navigate the whitewater rapids that we all face. But that doesn't change the fact that the Big 12 is essentially a slightly better version of Mos Eisley.



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DriftlessClone said:
Must be Minnesota given your take.

If you're not ignorant, you're clearly a very angry person that feels a need to be dismissive and derisive without provocation.
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Hilarious.

Wrong on both counts. I'm not angry at all, nor do I hail from Minnesota.

And check out some of the prior posts if you believe there has been no provocation.
 
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