Patrick Surtain jr.

FWIW, there is not a spot limitations issue to be concerned with. We are likely to end up playing below the 85 man limit next year also (unless walk-ons are given spots). Some guys will leave to the NFL, and some will leave because they don't contribute. Knowles may move along, but it won't be because we need the scholarship. A guy going into his 4th year is fine on the roster as long as he practices hard and does what the coaches want and can contribute on special teams or for depth. The risky thing to do is sign too many frosh, because they eat up spots for up to 4 years and limit your subsequent class sizes.
 

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FWIW, there is not a spot limitations issue to be concerned with. We are likely to end up playing below the 85 man limit next year also (unless walk-ons are given spots). Some guys will leave to the NFL, and some will leave because they don't contribute. Knowles may move along, but it won't be because we need the scholarship. A guy going into his 4th year is fine on the roster as long as he practices hard and does what the coaches want and can contribute on special teams or for depth. The risky thing to do is sign too many frosh, because they eat up spots for up to 4 years and limit your subsequent class sizes.

I believe in whoever Richt brings in. If it was an Al Golden class he'd fill it to the brim with 3 stars and a few two star "projects". We're in a good position to land good recruits this year.
 
FWIW, there is not a spot limitations issue to be concerned with. We are likely to end up playing below the 85 man limit next year also (unless walk-ons are given spots). Some guys will leave to the NFL, and some will leave because they don't contribute. Knowles may move along, but it won't be because we need the scholarship. A guy going into his 4th year is fine on the roster as long as he practices hard and does what the coaches want and can contribute on special teams or for depth. The risky thing to do is sign too many frosh, because they eat up spots for up to 4 years and limit your subsequent class sizes.

I believe in whoever Richt brings in. If it was an Al Golden class he'd fill it to the brim with 3 stars and a few two star "projects". We're in a good position to land good recruits this year.
You're missing the point. It's not just about whether you pick the best kids. It's about math, and human nature. There are only so many spots, only so many snaps. More kids play than start, but it's human nature for a kid buried on the depth chart to be less engaged, consider transfering, etc. Coaches know this. It's why balancing classes as a general matter is better than overloading. The Shannon / Golden strategy of loading up woth 30+ kids in a class rarely works out well. It chokes the roster and ends up creating departures, holes, morale issues and weaker recruuiting the next year. If you can't decide which kids to take, you may need to think harder.

Fortunately, Richt understands this.

24-26 kids is fine. 27 if a major kid like Surtain jumps in the boat at the last minute.
 
FWIW, there is not a spot limitations issue to be concerned with. We are likely to end up playing below the 85 man limit next year also (unless walk-ons are given spots). Some guys will leave to the NFL, and some will leave because they don't contribute. Knowles may move along, but it won't be because we need the scholarship. A guy going into his 4th year is fine on the roster as long as he practices hard and does what the coaches want and can contribute on special teams or for depth. The risky thing to do is sign too many frosh, because they eat up spots for up to 4 years and limit your subsequent class sizes.

I believe in whoever Richt brings in. If it was an Al Golden class he'd fill it to the brim with 3 stars and a few two star "projects". We're in a good position to land good recruits this year.
You're missing the point. It's not just about whether you pick the best kids. It's about math, and human nature. There are only so many spots, only so many snaps. More kids play than start, but it's human nature for a kid buried on the depth chart to be less engaged, consider transfering, etc. Coaches know this. It's why balancing classes as a general matter is better than overloading. The Shannon / Golden strategy of loading up woth 30+ kids in a class rarely works out well. It chokes the roster and ends up creating departures, holes, morale issues and weaker recruuiting the next year. If you can't decide which kids to take, you may need to think harder.

Fortunately, Richt understands this.

24-26 kids is fine. 27 if a major kid like Surtain jumps in the boat at the last minute.

True. Over signing only works when you’re willing to kick kids off the team for not cutting it. Bama over signs on the reg and has a good amount of attrition. This allows them to have very little dead weight. Richt won’t play that
 
FWIW, there is not a spot limitations issue to be concerned with. We are likely to end up playing below the 85 man limit next year also (unless walk-ons are given spots). Some guys will leave to the NFL, and some will leave because they don't contribute. Knowles may move along, but it won't be because we need the scholarship. A guy going into his 4th year is fine on the roster as long as he practices hard and does what the coaches want and can contribute on special teams or for depth. The risky thing to do is sign too many frosh, because they eat up spots for up to 4 years and limit your subsequent class sizes.

I believe in whoever Richt brings in. If it was an Al Golden class he'd fill it to the brim with 3 stars and a few two star "projects". We're in a good position to land good recruits this year.
You're missing the point. It's not just about whether you pick the best kids. It's about math, and human nature. There are only so many spots, only so many snaps. More kids play than start, but it's human nature for a kid buried on the depth chart to be less engaged, consider transfering, etc. Coaches know this. It's why balancing classes as a general matter is better than overloading. The Shannon / Golden strategy of loading up woth 30+ kids in a class rarely works out well. It chokes the roster and ends up creating departures, holes, morale issues and weaker recruuiting the next year. If you can't decide which kids to take, you may need to think harder.

Fortunately, Richt understands this.

24-26 kids is fine. 27 if a major kid like Surtain jumps in the boat at the last minute.

This is basically exactly what I've been saying. We want to be signing 25 or less on a yearly basis, because we dont WANT attrition. Currently we want attrition for certain players that Golden brought in that shouldn't be on this roster for a playoff run. But in the future we absolutely want to limit the turnover and get as many seniors as possible.

Plus you weren't even considering any Redshirts. If kids redshirt that means they count for 5 years. If every recruit we had redshirted we'd only be able to sign 17 per class. If we expect every recruit to play 4 years that means we should be signing 21-22 per class. And if every recruit declared early for the draft itd put us at 28 per class. In the 2017 class we have about 7 or so guys redshirting, if I'm not mistaken.

We don't have to worry about the 85 total counter limit for the next 2 yrs or so. But for the 2020 class it will certainly be the limiting factor imo.
 
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FWIW, there is not a spot limitations issue to be concerned with. We are likely to end up playing below the 85 man limit next year also (unless walk-ons are given spots). Some guys will leave to the NFL, and some will leave because they don't contribute. Knowles may move along, but it won't be because we need the scholarship. A guy going into his 4th year is fine on the roster as long as he practices hard and does what the coaches want and can contribute on special teams or for depth. The risky thing to do is sign too many frosh, because they eat up spots for up to 4 years and limit your subsequent class sizes.

I believe in whoever Richt brings in. If it was an Al Golden class he'd fill it to the brim with 3 stars and a few two star "projects". We're in a good position to land good recruits this year.
You're missing the point. It's not just about whether you pick the best kids. It's about math, and human nature. There are only so many spots, only so many snaps. More kids play than start, but it's human nature for a kid buried on the depth chart to be less engaged, consider transfering, etc. Coaches know this. It's why balancing classes as a general matter is better than overloading. The Shannon / Golden strategy of loading up woth 30+ kids in a class rarely works out well. It chokes the roster and ends up creating departures, holes, morale issues and weaker recruuiting the next year. If you can't decide which kids to take, you may need to think harder.

Fortunately, Richt understands this.

24-26 kids is fine. 27 if a major kid like Surtain jumps in the boat at the last minute.

True. Over signing only works when you’re willing to kick kids off the team for not cutting it. Bama over signs on the reg and has a good amount of attrition. This allows them to have very little dead weight. Richt won’t play that
This is a misunderstanding of Alabama.

From '10 through '16, Alabama never took more than 26 commitments in a class. Despite that, they were the No. 1 class 5 of those 7 years, and No. 2 once (No. 5 once).

Alabama has grey-shirted not because it oversigns, but because it does a remarkable job of getting kids in and keeping them in the program, all things considered.

Compare UM. Randy Shannon took 33 kids in '08, and Al Golden took 33 kids in '12. Those years were anchors on the program, all things considered.

Richt is playing with less than 75 kids on the scholarship right now, and it's not because of sanctions. It's because so many kids we sign don't end up enrolling, or depart early without contributing much if at all. There are many reasons for this, but at the end of the day, it's on the staff to screen kids.

If you go back and look, out of the 33 kids Randy took in '08, 12 didn't stick. Out of Golden's '12 class, an astonishing 18 of the 33 kids didn't stick. That's more than half! Richt's lost a bunch of his 'first' class so far ('16), but that was a class cobbled together in haste, so it's too early to judge him.

Coaching changes also lead to departures, as schemes change and kids are viewed differently. We've had our share of that also, to be sure.

It's hard to manage to precisely 85 kids, so once in a while a walk-on earns a scholarship or a kid gets grey-shirted. But habitually playing below 82 kids is the mark of a program that has issues.

That said, rushing to get to 85 kids would just create the next generation of problems. I'd guess Richt will have around 80 recruited scholarship kids next year, after attrition, and get to 84-85 kids by '19.
 
FWIW, there is not a spot limitations issue to be concerned with. We are likely to end up playing below the 85 man limit next year also (unless walk-ons are given spots). Some guys will leave to the NFL, and some will leave because they don't contribute. Knowles may move along, but it won't be because we need the scholarship. A guy going into his 4th year is fine on the roster as long as he practices hard and does what the coaches want and can contribute on special teams or for depth. The risky thing to do is sign too many frosh, because they eat up spots for up to 4 years and limit your subsequent class sizes.

I believe in whoever Richt brings in. If it was an Al Golden class he'd fill it to the brim with 3 stars and a few two star "projects". We're in a good position to land good recruits this year.
You're missing the point. It's not just about whether you pick the best kids. It's about math, and human nature. There are only so many spots, only so many snaps. More kids play than start, but it's human nature for a kid buried on the depth chart to be less engaged, consider transfering, etc. Coaches know this. It's why balancing classes as a general matter is better than overloading. The Shannon / Golden strategy of loading up woth 30+ kids in a class rarely works out well. It chokes the roster and ends up creating departures, holes, morale issues and weaker recruuiting the next year. If you can't decide which kids to take, you may need to think harder.

Fortunately, Richt understands this.

24-26 kids is fine. 27 if a major kid like Surtain jumps in the boat at the last minute.

This is basically exactly what I've been saying. We want to be signing 25 or less on a yearly basis, because we dont WANT attrition. Currently we want attrition for certain players that Golden brought in that shouldn't be on this roster for a playoff run. But in the future we absolutely want to limit the turnover and get as many seniors as possible.

Plus you weren't even considering any Redshirts. If kids redshirt that means they count for 5 years. If every recruit we had redshirted we'd only be able to sign 17 per class. If we expect every recruit to play 4 years that means we should be signing 21-22 per class. And if every recruit declared early for the draft itd put us at 28 per class. In the 2017 class we have about 7 or so guys redshirting, if I'm not mistaken.

We don't have to worry about the 85 total counter limit for the next 2 yrs or so. But for the 2020 class it will certainly be the limiting factor imo.
If you think about it, it's impossible to have a full cohort of 4th and 5th year players (however you define full), unless you keep kids in school, and it's impossible to have an experienced, balanced roster without those 4th/5th year players. No more than a few depart early to the NFL, and that's not a negative. But all the kids who don't get in, or don't stay in, they create two problems. Holes in the roster down the road, and 'shadow' holes caused by less ability to recruit those spots in the 1-2 years after they're signed.

Michael Jackson, Redwine, Gauthier, Langham ... Rosier ... guys who have many years in our program are contributing this year well beyond what they've done earlier in their careers. That's the benefit of longevity in a program.
 
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You guys sure we don’t need 7 dbs ? Two will leave early , one graduation, knowles might leave, could dean transfer or leave too ?
 
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No Surtain

I understand that their other solid dbs we could get one . Maybe a raw one with a high ceiling level to rs

I was talking about him and the UVA game...didn’t come but yes there is. Keidron Smith is the first to come to mind and I really don’t know why he’s so lowly rated...he better than his 4* teammate CJ.


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Patrick Surtain rhymes with Hurricane and Turnover Chain!
 
FWIW, there is not a spot limitations issue to be concerned with. We are likely to end up playing below the 85 man limit next year also (unless walk-ons are given spots). Some guys will leave to the NFL, and some will leave because they don't contribute. Knowles may move along, but it won't be because we need the scholarship. A guy going into his 4th year is fine on the roster as long as he practices hard and does what the coaches want and can contribute on special teams or for depth. The risky thing to do is sign too many frosh, because they eat up spots for up to 4 years and limit your subsequent class sizes.



You absolutely ignore the 25 IC rule. We can only take 25 kids per year. You cannot simply look to the 85 scholarship limit.

And, yes, I realize that the 25 can go up a bit with early enrollees, but that is not some permanent thing. You can only count FIVE guys back a year IF YOU HAVE ROOM within the 25 IC per year rule.

It doesn't matter how many LoIs you accept, we could take 50 if we were willing to put up with the bad press. It only matters who you enroll. And the SEC "oversigning" in past years ALWAYS included numerous academic casualties who were certain to end up at JuCo.
 
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FWIW, there is not a spot limitations issue to be concerned with. We are likely to end up playing below the 85 man limit next year also (unless walk-ons are given spots). Some guys will leave to the NFL, and some will leave because they don't contribute. Knowles may move along, but it won't be because we need the scholarship. A guy going into his 4th year is fine on the roster as long as he practices hard and does what the coaches want and can contribute on special teams or for depth. The risky thing to do is sign too many frosh, because they eat up spots for up to 4 years and limit your subsequent class sizes.



You absolutely ignore the 25 IC rule. We can only take 25 kids per year. You cannot simply look to the 85 scholarship limit.

And, yes, I realize that the 25 can go up a bit with early enrollees, but that is not some permanent thing. You can only count FIVE guys back a year IF YOU HAVE ROOM within the 25 IC per year rule.

It doesn't matter how many LoIs you accept, we could take 50 if we were willing to put up with the bad press. It only matters who you enroll. And the SEC "oversigning" in past years ALWAYS included numerous academic casualties who were certain to end up at JuCo.
I did not ignore it at all. It's not relevant to us this cycle because we have available space for early entries to count back to last year. And we will have early entries. Not complicated. Not relevant to this class.

And I dont think you are right that there is a limit on counting back. It's just 25 new counters and january kids can count back if there is space. If there is a 5 limit rule, it wouldnt affect this class anyhow (because we arent signing 30), but i havent heard that before.

As for the SEC, blah blah blah. The comment on Alabama was wrong and I addressed that.
 
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I think its better if they are spaced out instead of lots of players at one position in one class. With that said you never pass on a guy who is rated higher than the guys you've already signed.
 
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