Paradise

[bobbydigius]

That would be death to school not the player. He claims it was gift. The bag man would have had to file a 1099 for it to be income. However, bag man would also have needed to report it as a gift if were one. Either way, bag man in it deep. If irs ever gets into this stuff, bad bad crap gonna happen to bunch of people. Ultimate would be RICO of the schools assets since it would be a continuos criminal activity. How sweet would that be?

I’m not so sure they need to report it, and if they don’t it’s no big deal. You are allowed a certain amount each year which is around 14k and that number fluctuates each each year. Then you have lifetime expemtion which is around the 5.3-5.4 million number before you actually owe money on gifts. Sure the IRS could audit for that but you are just looking for a needle in a haystack at that point. I’d imagine the boosters are finding creative ways of remitting these gifts.

Lastly, I doubt they ever report. They just keep the flow steady and no big pay outs til they sign.

 

[bowdenbme]

The Rock, that is who we need. He shows up at Paradise and it's going to be hard to keep up with all the commitments

Think they already said they'd like too but his schedule is so loaded.

 

[warpigs58]

Why does every thread have to turn in a bags discussion? The mods should create a sticky titled bags where all of these discussions could be had....

 

[Gatorhater]

That’s exactly right, the most likely way it is done is to use (abuse) gift transfer laws. As I mentioned earlier, anyone can gift $14k a year, $28k for married filing jointly ($15k and $30k for 2018) to as many individuals as they like without having to file a gift tax return. Recipient does not have to pay income taxes on a gift. If the giver “gifts” more than $15k ($30k) in 2018, they then have to file gift tax return and begin reducing their lifetime exemption. These annual limits apply for any gifts given including cash, houses, and cars. (Exemption is if they pay educational or medical expenses directly to a providing institution).

The way for everyone involved to limit legal and criminal liability is to gift annual amounts to various family members, via cash and/or leased cars/houses. Another way is for multiple bag man to “gift” the amounts to individual players, 10 to 20 married bag men can give a recruit $300-600k. This obviously is against NCAA rules and highly unethical but “likely” not illegal. The way the IRS can go after them is to argue these are not “gifts” and are actually compensation for goods and services and file RICO for payroll tax evasion. This would land bag man AND player in serious legal trouble. Although it would be difficult to prove since bagmen typically don’t see an economic benefit from arrangement.

Good summation. I didn’t think of payroll tax aspect, that could get really ugly. I was only thinking 1099 independant contractor. The payroll tax makes it a real evasion case. Nice.

Weakness in any scheme to defraud tax man is number of people involved. If the multiple donors are strawmen in any way, using some else’s money, feds could work thier way the real source and even the gift scheme could land people in jail. The only way this would be really exciting is if the institution is targeted for RICO. Think of the siesure amounts.

 

[Gatorhater]

I’m not so sure they need to report it, and if they don’t it’s no big deal. You are allowed a certain amount each year which is around 14k and that number fluctuates each each year. Then you have lifetime expemtion which is around the 5.3-5.4 million number before you actually owe money on gifts. Sure the IRS could audit for that but you are just looking for a needle in a haystack at that point. I’d imagine the boosters are finding creative ways of remitting these gifts.

Lastly, I doubt they ever report. They just keep the flow steady and no big pay outs til they sign.

I doubt they report any of it, but anything over the annual allowance is required to be reported, I think. When crime is committed with protection in place, people get sloppy so I bet there are many threads to be pulled out there. Cash is changing hands and feds do much better job tracking cash than people think. College footballl recruiting is not one of the major things the feds worry about so nothing will ever happen unless some US attorney gets a hair up his or her rear.

 

[CanesFan93]

Why does every thread have to turn in a bags discussion? The mods should create a sticky titled bags where all of these discussions could be had....

Thank you. Its been well established that schools give out bags. WE GET IT.

Just wish our coaches luck and hope that they have the gift of gab to lure these recruits here.

 

[Gatorhater]

How would the IRS trace the money? Other than some kid saying a booster gave him money, what's to say it ever happened. And I assume if a kid is getting $100k it's not all from one guy, so even if you could trace a particular booster's contribution how would they trace the rest?

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm actually curious how they'd catch somebody even if a kid ratted.

The government is crooked as **** but not stupid. The biggest problem faced by any criminal is how to use the dirty money without getting caught. Cash deposited or spent over certain amounts are reported. Even large cash withdrawals from your own accounts are looked at today. They print the money, they distribute the money, the system watches the money. One snitch is enough IF the feds want you. All this is fun because the feds have many many bigger fish to fry.

 

[ThomasM]

These kids and their handlers have become incredibly adroit negotiators. How do you drive up the bags? Pretend to be open to a flip.

It’s like the dude who goes to a car dealer and falls in love with a car but is smart and steely enough to get up and walk out.

Fake interest in Miami. Call it your "dream school". Say you're taking a visit or two, then talk about how much you love Miami, and how it felt like home. Works every time. It's all code for, "I want a bigger bag."

 

[kryptonite]

The government is crooked as **** but not stupid. The biggest problem faced by any criminal is how to use the dirty money without getting caught. Cash deposited or spent over certain amounts are reported. Even large cash withdrawals from your own accounts are looked at today. They print the money, they distribute the money, the system watches the money. One snitch is enough IF the feds want you. All this is fun because the feds have many many bigger fish to fry.

No doubt, but my understanding was that this was money that was clean...the government didn't know about it in the first place. Even in this day and age there are still businesses that deal with cash. When somebody gives you cash, you've got options as to what you do with it, and who knows about it.

Or so I hear.

 

[canesproponent]

That could be a way to do it. However, you are raising the legal and criminal liability as far as it goes there. Casinos are required to give a 1099 to anyone who “wins” $600 or more. They could just give recruits a series of jackpots under $600 but that is money laundering which would draw the attention of the FBI, DOJ, IRS and State gaming authorities.

Owner would not risk the jail time and much less their holy grail, the cash printing gaming license. Casinos are the most regulated and scrutinized businesses that there is, even the tribal ones. A few years back, the IRS went after Chief Billie of the Micosukee tribe for taxes when he wasn’t even required to pay taxes for some loophole. Believed they settled.

SEC football is tax evasion on a massive scale. The government will eventually prosecute. Every "gift" is taxable at 30% of more. Bonuses of $50,000 are immediately taxed at 52% and you get some back after filing the next year.

Also, the Walton family would fold in a millisecond. They would admit to contributing to the foundation and would "cry ignorance" as to what the foundation used the funds for.....

 

[Gatorhater]

No doubt, but my understanding was that this was money that was clean...the government didn't know about it in the first place. Even in this day and age there are still businesses that deal with cash. When somebody gives you cash, you've got options as to what you do with it, and who knows about it.

Or so I hear.

True to an extent but in 70’s the drug trade was such that lots new controls and “surveillance” came about. Plenty still takes place in the dark, but a ton more info is pick up than before. Heck, a couple months ago I was depositing $500 in my wife’s checking account with a deposit slip and had to show ID. That was new to me. I’m guessing that is more anti terriost money tracking thing but still. I’m out of the side of legal business that would deal with stuff now but large cash purchases, not just bank deposits, were being reported and track in early 80’s. I assume they still are.

Bag money isn’t “dirty” money per se. It is probably clean. It would be the failure to report that would be the possible crime or at very less taxable event. It is not against law to give kid money or take money from someone. That does not mean it is tax free. Hey, if you win $500 at blackjack table in Hard Rock, it is taxable. Since they don’t file with irs for that amount, nobody claims it but it is taxable.

 

[QoCane85]

Kardell Thomas vs Nesta Silvera in practice would probably cause Greentree to explode.

Nesta would win vs Kardell but I want him in this class hopefully with a flip. I’m more interested to see Nesta vs Evan Neal in O-line vs D-line drills.

 

[TheMatador]

I think this happens a lotOne of the kids involved in the Ole Miss scandal took money from Ole Miss but signed with Mississippi State. A long time ago, a kid named Hart Lee Dykes got 3 or 4 schools put on probation because he got money from all of them.

I think he was a Jimmy Johnson recruit at Oklahoma State. I think he got money to go Oklahoma State.

 

[Hurricane23]

Sorry if this is off topic, but what is to stop these kids that get bags from just telling the school (boosters) that gave money to pound sand and go where they want to go anyway? It's like robbing another criminal, who they going to tell? Am I missing something in all seriousness?

If they giving out bags, best believe they are smart about it to the point where a kid cant get the bag and run.

 

[canesproponent]

Do you know why the drug trade moved to Norfolk, VA from Miami?

They passed a law in Florida during the mid-80s that, if, a bank was caught with laundered money they would lose their Florida charter... A Citi or JPMorgan can lose Florida and still function quite well, but such an event is immediate bankruptcy for the TotalBanks, International Bank of Miamis or Easter Nationals or Professionals..... Also, the state government did not mind the drug trade until they realized that they could reap markedly more from tourism. They passed the law AFTER South Beach became a "destination". When the State realized that they would make more from less violence and greater tourism, they passed this law (i.e. the "white glove law").

 

[Rellyrell]

When will we know about participants at Paradise?

 

[brock]

When will we know about participants at Paradise?

Closer to the days prior to the camp, alot of programs battling for all their top recruits to come to their camp and nearly all of the major schools are hosting an event that weekend

 

[KevinCaneFace]

Sorry if this is off topic, but what is to stop these kids that get bags from just telling the school (boosters) that gave money to pound sand and go where they want to go anyway? It's like robbing another criminal, who they going to tell? Am I missing something in all seriousness?

They don’t drop ONE bag for you to come to their school.

They drop a bag with a message that says “there’s more where this came from if you sign”

 

[Canes Stan]

Sorry if this is off topic, but what is to stop these kids that get bags from just telling the school (boosters) that gave money to pound sand and go where they want to go anyway? It's like robbing another criminal, who they going to tell? Am I missing something in all seriousness?

You killed the this thread. I had the same question though

 

[caneballza]

Hey here's an idea.. maybe the kid just wants to come Miami and Dugans has done a good job recruiting. Remarkable how so many of you are brainwashed when ever UGA is involved, you fail to realize that with TC we just got out recruited by their DC and James Coley.