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This is truly a terrible post. However, "getting f*cked from both sides of the *****" is one of the best phrases I've heard in a long time.
 
Unless you get rid of the over paid union workers, that hospital will never pay for itself.


The Dude said:
I typed my post prior to your post being up there.

The hospital is not the issue. The issue is the hiring of all these high paid doctors and researchers that are costing more than they are bringing in. The fault is on Goldsmicth and I guess you can say Shalala as the head of the University.

Also, you are being short sighted when it comes to the hospital. With all the healthcare reform which will now happen with the reelection of Barack (face palm), UM will be at the forefront of the future of Healthcare which will bring in huge amounts of money that will pay for the hospital ten-fold.

Short term, it hurt us in the fact that te doctors hired are lazy ****s which aren't seeing patients at the rate they should. Too busy playing golf and whatever else they do.
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if you are b!tching about someone doing a poor job at the office, you better come up with his/her replacement who will definitely be better than the incumbent.

to everyone b!tching about AD, come up with a viable candidate.

to everyone b!tching about Shalala, come up with someone with better credentials than a top 50 University president who has served in the presidential staff.

and if you say Uncle Luke, Highsmith, Gino Toretta, Kosar, or any football alum should be the AD, you need to get your cranium checked.
 
Hegemon said:
dycane said:
My brain hurts after reading through this thread. After getting past the juvenile ad hominem attacks, there's not much else there. Yes, the football program has disintegrated during DS's tenure, but the only major mistake she made was hiring Randy Shannon.

Anyone who blamed her for the move from the Orange Bowl simply has no realistic context as to why that happened. There was no way we were staying in that place. I was personally in meetings with Huizenga's people when a City official told them that UM could not fight the City and that the City would not continue to keep that "dump" around for a measly 5 games a year. So, the move was inevitable.

And if you think, even remotely, that Donna, the Governor, or even God himself could make an on campus stadium happen, you're certifiable.

As for the athletic directors, well she obviously has an eye for talent because her two young picks ended up running HUGE athletic departments within a few years - can't blame them or Donna for those moves. And one of them picked Al Golden (with Donna's blessing), which means Al Golden picked (and appears to stick by) Donna. By the way, contrary to what the majority of our deluded fan base believes, some families don't like living in Miami. And I know it's shocking, but some athletic directors (and yes, they are the ones in charge of fundraising for the athletic department) would prefer to raise money at big schools with droves of good ol' boy donors and maniacal fans.

Oh, and if you think there's anyone more prepared to manage this Shapiro mess and mitigate the damage, please name him or her. This has been textbook. Not a single leak. Fully cooperative, yet we did many things behind the scenes to limit exposure.

Simply put, the facts, of course, don't support OP's general, conclusory indictments and retarded personal attacks. DS cares about football, but it's not her job to run the football program. It's her job to make UM the best academic institution she can. And having had numerous conversations with the woman, I can tell you she understands that the two aren't completely mutually exclusive. If you think DS wants the football program to fail - ****, if you think she wants anything but the most successful football program possible - you're delusional, Ace.
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Great you talk to her.

I'm sure you're privy to all the politician is about. I look at results. She's failed. Again there's a difference between academic's and athletic's but you conviently glossed over that. Not surprised.

Love how the excuses for the athletic directors are made. Shouldn't these questions have been asked beforehand or is that too much for the Trolls followers? "Ya Donna I'll run that ship for 6-8 months but frankly South Florida sucks and I look forward to using that gig as a launching pad as soon as another job becomes available."

Yeup makes perfect sense.

Reading these responses is equally mind numbing.
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I was on the fence for awhile as to whether or not you actually received a UM degree, but your grammar cleared that up. Nonetheless, nice to see you come back with an insightful, factually-based reply. All I hear from you is, I don't care about the reasons, I blame Donna...

I blame Donna for Coral Gables' structure, population, demographics, and building code.

I blame Donna for Nebraska establishing itself as a powerhouse athletic department over the last 50 years and becoming attractive to a talented athletic director.

I blame Donna for the fact that our fan base is primarily comprised of a bunch of fair weather fans who refuse to attend games unless we're undefeated.

I blame Donna for the fact that the City of Miami refused to consider upgrades to the Orange Bowl.

I blame Donna for the Marlins buying off City officials.

I blame Donna for not asking, hypothetically, an athletic director prospect during his interview whether he would bolt for a job running one of the richest athletic departments in the country if a world class ponzi schemer infiltrated our booster base, took advantage of our kids, and ultimately ratted out our program to an unethical journalist from from his jail cell, sending the NCAA on a two year witch hunt?

I blame Donna for spending too much time focused on turning UM into a world-class institution and too little time personally assuming the duties of active athletic director.

I blame Donna for the arms race in college football that has put UM at a competitive disadvantage?

I blame Donna for letting all the coaches in America know that we have talent down here and allowing those competitors and their street agents to spend millions of dollars, both legally and illegally, poaching the type of players who used to come here without question.

I blame Donna for the SEC's TV contract...

Got it. I've been illuminated.
 
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dycane said:
Hegemon said:
dycane said:
My brain hurts after reading through this thread. After getting past the juvenile ad hominem attacks, there's not much else there. Yes, the football program has disintegrated during DS's tenure, but the only major mistake she made was hiring Randy Shannon.

Anyone who blamed her for the move from the Orange Bowl simply has no realistic context as to why that happened. There was no way we were staying in that place. I was personally in meetings with Huizenga's people when a City official told them that UM could not fight the City and that the City would not continue to keep that "dump" around for a measly 5 games a year. So, the move was inevitable.

And if you think, even remotely, that Donna, the Governor, or even God himself could make an on campus stadium happen, you're certifiable.

As for the athletic directors, well she obviously has an eye for talent because her two young picks ended up running HUGE athletic departments within a few years - can't blame them or Donna for those moves. And one of them picked Al Golden (with Donna's blessing), which means Al Golden picked (and appears to stick by) Donna. By the way, contrary to what the majority of our deluded fan base believes, some families don't like living in Miami. And I know it's shocking, but some athletic directors (and yes, they are the ones in charge of fundraising for the athletic department) would prefer to raise money at big schools with droves of good ol' boy donors and maniacal fans.

Oh, and if you think there's anyone more prepared to manage this Shapiro mess and mitigate the damage, please name him or her. This has been textbook. Not a single leak. Fully cooperative, yet we did many things behind the scenes to limit exposure.

Simply put, the facts, of course, don't support OP's general, conclusory indictments and retarded personal attacks. DS cares about football, but it's not her job to run the football program. It's her job to make UM the best academic institution she can. And having had numerous conversations with the woman, I can tell you she understands that the two aren't completely mutually exclusive. If you think DS wants the football program to fail - ****, if you think she wants anything but the most successful football program possible - you're delusional, Ace.
Click to expand...

Great you talk to her.

I'm sure you're privy to all the politician is about. I look at results. She's failed. Again there's a difference between academic's and athletic's but you conviently glossed over that. Not surprised.

Love how the excuses for the athletic directors are made. Shouldn't these questions have been asked beforehand or is that too much for the Trolls followers? "Ya Donna I'll run that ship for 6-8 months but frankly South Florida sucks and I look forward to using that gig as a launching pad as soon as another job becomes available."

Yeup makes perfect sense.

Reading these responses is equally mind numbing.
Click to expand...

I was on the fence for awhile as to whether or not you actually received a UM degree, but your grammar cleared that up. Nonetheless, nice to see you come back with an insightful, factually-based reply. All I hear from you is, I don't care about the reasons, I blame Donna...

I blame Donna for Coral Gables' structure, population, demographics, and building code.

I blame Donna for Nebraska establishing itself as a powerhouse athletic department over the last 50 years and becoming attractive to a talented athletic director.

I blame Donna for the fact that our fan base is primarily comprised of a bunch of fair weather fans who refuse to attend games unless we're undefeated.

I blame Donna for the fact that the City of Miami refused to consider upgrades to the Orange Bowl.

I blame Donna for the Marlins buying off City officials.

I blame Donna for not asking, hypothetically, an athletic director prospect during his interview whether he would bolt for a job running one of the richest athletic departments in the country if a world class ponzi schemer infiltrated our booster base, took advantage of our kids, and ultimately ratted out our program to an unethical journalist from from his jail cell, sending the NCAA on a two year witch hunt?

I blame Donna for spending too much time focused on turning UM into a world-class institution and too little time personally assuming the duties of active athletic director.

I blame Donna for the arms race in college football that has put UM at a competitive disadvantage?

I blame Donna for letting all the coaches in America know that we have talent down here and allowing those competitors and their street agents to spend millions of dollars, both legally and illegally, poaching the type of players who used to come here without question.

I blame Donna for the SEC's TV contract...

Got it. I've been illuminated.
Click to expand...

Thanks for being part of the problem and not part of the solution.

Lots of excuses. Lots.

Mind numbing.
 
Known Hedge for a while. He's got some merit here. I don't agree with all that he's saying and don't have the same vitriol, but he's got every right to be fired up.

1. Until we stop the culture of making excuses for why we can't succeed, we won't. Whether true or not, the bar needs to be set higher. It's hard to imagine any fan thinking that the musical chairs with our ADs has been anything short of a fiasco. It needs to stop, and she needs to find the right guy ASAP. No excuses. We're still an ACC school, have a nice academic reputation, and have a history of enough athletic success that it shouldn't be hard to find someone competent who wants to tackle this challenge.

2. I'm sure Shalala has done what she can to minimize the the damages from the shytstorm that's heading our way, but the sheer length of this inquiry is nearly punishment enough. I'm not sure if she could have done more, but it's remarkable how other schools, OSU and PSU, were able to expedite their penalties. Someone with knowledge of where she could have done more should offer some proof or credence to the idea that she didn't do enough. Again, there's a lot of speculation.

3. Have to give her credit for the general direction she has taken the program. I don't know the particulars of the hospital situation, but the trend has been favorable. Academically, we're better off than when she came, and there is no data to show that we would have been better off with someone else. That's completely also...speculative.

Ultimately, I feel bad for the players and the fans. We've gone through 2 horrendous coaches and finally thought we had some traction with a good coach only to have the failure of the 2 previous dypshyts compounded by a debacle with a mini-Madoff. I mean wtf has this fan base done to deserve this nonsense?

Also, the failure of the entire administration here from the athletic director, one of whom was on the infractions committee or whatever it was called, to the coaches is embarrassing. They all needed to get fired and Shalala should be on the hot seat now. While she has done a lot to improve our academic standing, she has failed our football program, the flagship athletic program, from a leadership standpoint. She should have demanded more from the AD, demanded that we hire someone better than Coker and Shannon even if it meant spending more, and should have willed this through. I don't buy for 1 second that we don't or didn't have the money. We most assuredly do. It's a choice to spend less that has cost us in the long haul. I'm plenty aware of what the academic program has and can do, and too many people are excusing them for something that simply isn't true.
 
Wow. It would appear that, as is the case with a large segment of he general population, factual evidence is not valued; not wanted; nor given the proper attention that it should. Just go with what you feel and intelligence be damned. Excludes Wushah's post, very well thought out.
 
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Wushah can you imagine if Golden made the same excuses in recruiting last year?

Granted the guys not perfect but literally EVERYTHING outlined by Dycane including the looming sanctions would have tanked someone else without the balls to actually LEAD.

The Troll hasn't advocated for a stadium close to campus or on it. Go ahead and make an excuse about that people. I'm sure you will. Baylor, Tulane, FAU, and UCF are all giving you middle fingers right now.

The Troll has allowed out athletic department to be run like the Swap Shop.

Her political "pull" and acumen certainly hasn't helped her in this situation.

I'll be damned if I don't want an athletic program as successful as our acadmic's.

Let the excuse makers make excuses.

I'm sick of this ****.
 
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CanefaninBuckeyeland said:
Wow. It would appear that, as is the case with a large segment of he general population, factual evidence is not valued; not wanted; nor given the proper attention that it should. Just go with what you feel and intelligence be damned. Excludes Wushah's post, very well thought out.
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Apparently it isn't valued by you either.

Go figure.
 
wushah said:
Known Hedge for a while. He's got some merit here. I don't agree with all that he's saying and don't have the same vitriol, but he's got every right to be fired up.

1. Until we stop the culture of making excuses for why we can't succeed, we won't. Whether true or not, the bar needs to be set higher. It's hard to imagine any fan thinking that the musical chairs with our ADs has been anything short of a fiasco. It needs to stop, and she needs to find the right guy ASAP. No excuses. We're still an ACC school, have a nice academic reputation, and have a history of enough athletic success that it shouldn't be hard to find someone competent who wants to tackle this challenge.

2. I'm sure Shalala has done what she can to minimize the the damages from the shytstorm that's heading our way, but the sheer length of this inquiry is nearly punishment enough. I'm not sure if she could have done more, but it's remarkable how other schools, OSU and PSU, were able to expedite their penalties. Someone with knowledge of where she could have done more should offer some proof or credence to the idea that she didn't do enough. Again, there's a lot of speculation.

3. Have to give her credit for the general direction she has taken the program. I don't know the particulars of the hospital situation, but the trend has been favorable. Academically, we're better off than when she came, and there is no data to show that we would have been better off with someone else. That's completely also...speculative.

Ultimately, I feel bad for the players and the fans. We've gone through 2 horrendous coaches and finally thought we had some traction with a good coach only to have the failure of the 2 previous dypshyts compounded by a debacle with a mini-Madoff. I mean wtf has this fan base done to deserve this nonsense?

Also, the failure of the entire administration here from the athletic director, one of whom was on the infractions committee or whatever it was called, to the coaches is embarrassing. They all needed to get fired and Shalala should be on the hot seat now. While she has done a lot to improve our academic standing, she has failed our football program, the flagship athletic program, from a leadership standpoint. She should have demanded more from the AD, demanded that we hire someone better than Coker and Shannon even if it meant spending more, and should have willed this through. I don't buy for 1 second that we don't or didn't have the money. We most assuredly do. It's a choice to spend less that has cost us in the long haul. I'm plenty aware of what the academic program has and can do, and too many people are excusing them for something that simply isn't true.
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i'm glad you spelled things out reasonably. i agree with some of what you're saying, but i have a couple of counter points.

1) she did bring in good athletic directors. they were so good that they were hired away. it also doesn't help that some d*ckhead burglarized eichorst's house on top of making just short of $1 million/year.

2) penn state ultimately got screwed by the investigation that they commissioned. ohio state was easier to solve because it involved a handful of athletes. our allegations involve over 70, and while a lot seems hinged on shaky corroboration at best, the ones that were confirmed justifies the ncaa looking into every person named. let's be honest, if the same allegations hit notre dame, we would want the ncaa to find every bit of dirt on them and hammer them down.

3) i agree 100% that we could have done better than shannon, but at the time it was seen as a good hire by a lot of "experts" for financial and coaching reasons. obviously that didn't turn out the way we wanted it to.

the big issue is that the entire athletic department hinges on revenues generated by football and basketball. the fixed cost of running a game remains constant, regardless of how many tickets are sold and we lose out on everything in proportion to the amount of people that go to games. the less people that purchase tickets and concessions at games, the less money there is for all university sports. part of this problem is with title ix and having to fund a bunch of non-revenue (women's) sports.

the athletic director who was on the infractions committee was paul dee (who died earlier this year) and hasn't been the ad since 2008.

the one thing i have a vehement disagreement with is shalala being on the hot seat because of athletic decline. she's doing her job and it's really not her fault if the people she brings in get hired away. and also, why would any athletic director want to work for someone who micromanages to the point of dictating who to hire as coach?
 
Hegemon said:
Wushah can you imagine if Golden made the same excuses in recruiting last year?

Granted the guys not perfect but literally EVERYTHING outlined by Dycane including the looming sanctions would have tanked someone else without the balls to actually LEAD.

The Troll hasn't advocated for a stadium close to campus or on it. Go ahead and make an excuse about that people. I'm sure you will. Baylor, Tulane, FAU, and UCF are all giving you middle fingers right now.

The Troll has allowed out athletic department to be run like the Swap Shop.

Her political "pull" and acumen certainly hasn't helped her in this situation.

I'll be damned if I don't want an athletic program as successful as our acadmic's.

Let the excuse makers make excuses.

I'm sick of this ****.
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this is where you lose the argument. where near campus would you build? there is nowhere to physically put a stadium and the infrastructure required anywhere near campus except for tropical park. if we were to get tropical park, i'd be all for it, but other than that there is no other site that could handle the space or the roads. the city isn't going to help fund it because they're already in a fiasco with the marlins and there's no way the citizens in miami-dade would allow it to be built using tax dollars.
schools that are building/have recently built new stadiums:

1) ucf had the land to build on.
2) fau had the land to build on.
3) baylor is in the middle of nowhere.
4) tulane is building where their old stadium used to be.

campus is landlocked. coral gables hates the university and wouldn't allow a stadium on campus. if we built a stadium on campus, the roads couldn't handle the traffic.

these are not excuses. these are solid facts.
 
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Are you familiar with Tropical Park 5 miles from Campus?

Plenty of room.

Make it happen.

It's also located adjacent to 2 major highways.

Stop the excuse making and start lobbying to better this university.
 
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Hegemon said:
Are you familiar with Tropical Park 5 miles from Campus?

Plenty of room.

Make it happen.

It's also located adjacent to 2 major highways.

Stop the excuse making and start lobbying to better this university.
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read again what i said. i specifically mentioned tropical park being the only viable place.
 
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Some of you are delirious. One thing is what you want to happen, and the other is what can actually happen when you factor in all of the peripherals.
 
Notsince1985 said:
Hegemon said:
Notsince1985 said:
Hegemon said:
Spin away washing machine man.

Spin away.

Excuses are like ********, everyone has one.
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Says the guy stating his opinion
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Your point exactly?

Lemme guess another of the Trolls fanclub just showed up.

You guys are right, she's doing a great job on the athletic front.

LULZ
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My point is pretty clear. You're ripping someone for stating an opinion, while stating an opinion.
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And his opinion is pretty much a dead on fact. If Michigan and Ohio State and 20 others are barely in the black with the money they get rolling in, Division I athletics is a broken model. I blame Title IX but that is neither here nor there. We are what we are, a small private school in a big city with a small alumni base and no real big money rollers. We dont have the Oklahoma State's T. Boone Pickens, Arkansas' Walton family or Oregon's Nike clan giving us an equal footing in the arms race.
 
Hegemon said:
Are you familiar with Tropical Park 5 miles from Campus?

Plenty of room.

Make it happen.

It's also located adjacent to 2 major highways.

Stop the excuse making and start lobbying to better this university.
Click to expand...

Uhh shalala is trying to make that happen
 
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