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OT- Have athletes gotten worse in the NBA/MLB?

Gooner#44 said:
I agree, he hit .260 at OU and .170 in Cape Cod, he was not going to the Bigs anytime soon
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Exactly. Nobody wanted to say this about him on tv, but there was no guarantee he was ever gonna be a big leaguer. I thought it was a huge reach to take him anywhere in the first.
 
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Today's athletes are much more athletic than those of the 80's and 90's. And it's not even close. They're bigger, faster, jump higher, stronger, etc. Now, as for mental fortitude and such, athletes of yesteryear are definitely superior. These kids nowadays rely too much on physical prowess and not enough on the mental.
 
LuCane said:
I think the answer is obvious. Between analytics and the internet, the game changed. The NBA skewed its target audience to kids and the social media crowd. People who sit and watch entire games are seemingly less important to them than the highlights they can string together to post on Instagram. So, deep 3s, a couple crazy moves, some dunks. Voila. Watching a game is ******* horrendous because of it.
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I think you’re right in retrospect ... but the time-line is hard to match to that from a causal perspective. The three point line came into college in the mid-‘80s. I think the game was evolving to in and out before the highlight and media era really took off. But in today’s era, I agree that the forces you describe push this in the direction you mention.
 
Also challenges for every little thing kills the momentum of the game and drags the games out forever. If a ball goes off the finger hail of a guy but his hand was hit to make that happen the camera shows the fingernail. They can’t call a foul on the guy hitting his hand on the follow through. It’s to the ridiculous point , frame by frame.

Bill Simmons and Russillo talk about this all the time. Watching old games you realize how all the stoppages now kills the game and the continuity. Even for the fans. Watching old games you also don’t have guys crying nearly as much every play , about a physical screen or the
LuCane said:
I think the answer is obvious. Between analytics and the internet, the game changed. The NBA skewed its target audience to kids and the social media crowd. People who sit and watch entire games are seemingly less important to them than the highlights they can string together to post on Instagram. So, deep 3s, a couple crazy moves, some dunks. Voila. Watching a game is ******* horrendous because of it.
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You’re dead on.

The nba sold their soul for the social media crowd and kids , they became fiba. No defense , it’s soft and everyone runs to the three point line. Euros now makeup a good portion of the nba, because it’s their brand of b-ball.

Physicality is gone so they can hang.
 
The NBA is much, much different than it was 20 years ago.

Young guys don't understand that there is more mid-long range shooting because of the rules changes for defenders.

No hand checking, defensive fouls for aggressive play are called a lot more. ****, I recall two guys in the modern era get double teched just for staring at each other.

Guys like Larry Bird, John Stockton, and Chris Mullin would absolutely dominate this league. Larry would not have two guys literally breathing down his neck, and with his mid range and post game (that is non existent in todays NBA), he would be unstoppable.

One has to wonder how Steph Curry would fare with guys like Gary Peyton or Stockton guarding them with the old rules.

Pretty sure his 3 pt pct would go down.
 
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DMoney said:
Skilled, maybe. Athletic? No. Look at the All-NBA guards from the mid-90s. Jordan, Penny, Payton, Kevin Johnson, Drexler.

The least athletic guy is Stockton, and he is miles ahead of Curry, Kyrie and Trae Young as an on-ball, lateral defender.

And that’s just the guards. It’s unfair to compare an athlete like David Robinson to Nikola Jokic. Embiid stands out today, and there were at least 4 centers physically better than him back then.

We can all agree that shooting is more important than ever. You can’t have it all and, as someone who watched both eras, shooting is taking priority over athleticism and man-to-man defense.
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They're definitely no Sean Kemps (in his prime ) in today's NBA...
 
DTP said:
There’s probably more less athletic shooters in the modern NBA but it balances out because the stiffs and “enforcer” type players no longer exist. In the 80’s and 90’s the league was loaded with big guys who’s only skill was that they were tall. They couldn’t pass, they couldn’t shoot, they couldn’t dribble. They just clogged up the paint on defense and tried to grab occasional rebounds. Those guys don’t exist in the modern game.
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I remember watching the NBA in the 90's as a teenager and the old timers where all "nobody can shoot anymore!" "They got rid of all the fundamentals!" "It's all about slam dunks and highlights now!" "None of these guys could have played against Bob Cousy and Russell!"

That's what some of you guys sound like now.
 
Wouldn't this be something we could compare via combine numbers? We may not have 40 years worth of combine data but if this holds true and there are combine numbers for the last 10-15 years I am sure it would appear there.

I think for the NBA you could make a case that there is a lack of toughness compared to older generations of players, but I doubt we are putting guys that are smaller, slower, and worse leapers out there across the board. As it relates to baseball, I could buy that the skill level is dropping due to the emphasis on power, but I am not sure that indicates inferior athletes either as you don't need to be overly skilled to be athletic, and you don't need to be overly athletic to be skilled. I'd be curious to see base running time comparisons. In a sport like baseball with the analytics they maintain it has to be something that is being charted.
 
I'm glad many are describing the rule changes. Even playing basketball in the 90s changed multiple times. If you were playing organized ball at any level, hand-checking was still a thing. Then it was the "forearm" rule.

That **** makes a huge difference in what can be done on the floor. I remember playing HS ball when one of the transitions happened and the "hand on hip" was regulated out of the game. I played point guard and it basically made my life completely different. It's difficult to compare across eras with different rules and styles.

Anyone ever play in those local tournaments like Reebok Blacktop? You'd face some dude who had two hands on your hips at all times. Just different basketball.
 
Baseball has turned into mens softball. Dont get me wrong, I like the long ball but I miss stolen bases in the game. Guys like Ricky Henderson were artists. Amazing to think guys were stealing 90+ bases and not winning the stolen bases title. Today stealing 40 bases makes you elite.
 
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kanecrazed said:
Baseball has turned into mens softball. Dont get me wrong, I like the long ball but I miss stolen bases in the game. Guys like Ricky Henderson were artists. Amazing to think guys were stealing 90+ bases and not winning the stolen bases title. Today stealing 40 bases makes you elite.
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I remember players like Sheffield early in their careers being an exciting athletic type of ball player...
 
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LuCane said:
I'm glad many are describing the rule changes. Even playing basketball in the 90s changed multiple times. If you were playing organized ball at any level, hand-checking was still a thing. Then it was the "forearm" rule.

That **** makes a huge difference in what can be done on the floor. I remember playing HS ball when one of the transitions happened and the "hand on hip" was regulated out of the game. I played point guard and it basically made my life completely different. It's difficult to compare across eras with different rules and styles.

Anyone ever play in those local tournaments like Reebok Blacktop? You'd face some dude who had two hands on your hips at all times. Just different basketball.
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This. Guys in the past weren’t these great “lockdown defenders” they were just allowed to hand check, grab, hold and a bunch of other crap that would get them fouled out in the first quarter today. Personally, I prefer today’s game. The 90’s NBA was great because you still had superstars to make it entertaining but when Jordan retired (the second time) and a lot of those other 90’s stars got old and retired, the league got bad. Really bad and really boring.
 
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