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NCAA investigation, go ahead, ask me...

DapperSlapper said:
bg534 said:
Everybody here, myself included, believes we will get hit with some sort of scholarship reductions regardless of how little the investigative team actually corroborates enough to place into the Letter of Allegations. But if it were found that not enough evidence could be corroborated to justify punishing Miami any further based on any previous precedent, or if the punishment for the allegations in question is considered well below the steps we have already taken in order to mitigate our punishment, and according to the standards of the infraction committee we have therefore already served our time, is there any chance in **** they acknowledge this publicly and decide not to hand down future sanctions, claiming our violations are not severe enough to warrant further sanctions of any sort?
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If you're asking whether UM can put overpunishment in this case "in the bank" and use it in the next case, um.... no.
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Not at all. I didn't even know that was a possible interpretation of my post, but that isn't what I meant at all.


In short, I'm basically asking if there is any chance in **** the NCAA could decide that our two bowl bans, plus the players we suspended and they restitution they paid, could serve as the entirety of our punishment, if it were to be found that nothing in the NOA even remotely justified the sanctions we have already self-imposed? Or do you believe the organization to be so political in nature as to necessitate further penalization no matter how minor the infractions are relative to the past (self-imposed) and possible penalties?
 
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bg534 said:
DapperSlapper said:
bg534 said:
Everybody here, myself included, believes we will get hit with some sort of scholarship reductions regardless of how little the investigative team actually corroborates enough to place into the Letter of Allegations. But if it were found that not enough evidence could be corroborated to justify punishing Miami any further based on any previous precedent, or if the punishment for the allegations in question is considered well below the steps we have already taken in order to mitigate our punishment, and according to the standards of the infraction committee we have therefore already served our time, is there any chance in **** they acknowledge this publicly and decide not to hand down future sanctions, claiming our violations are not severe enough to warrant further sanctions of any sort?
Click to expand...

If you're asking whether UM can put overpunishment in this case "in the bank" and use it in the next case, um.... no.
Click to expand...


Not at all. I didn't even know that was a possible interpretation of my post, but that isn't what I meant at all.


In short, I'm basically asking if there is any chance in **** the NCAA could decide that our two bowl bans, plus the players we suspended and they restitution they paid, could serve as the entirety of our punishment, if it were to be found that nothing in the NOA even remotely justified the sanctions we have already self-imposed? Or do you believe the organization to be so political in nature as to necessitate further penalization no matter how minor the infractions are relative to the past (self-imposed) and possible penalties?
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The COI is insulated from politics in a very real sense since they are volunteers. No one signed checks to them for the work they do on the COI. UM's self imposed penalties, if more severe than necessary, could be used to reduce a different type of penalty that was not self imposed. See the tidbit I posted about South Carolina - they avoided a bowl ban by being more cooperative and forthright than the Bylaws demand.
 
Biscuits said:
Biscuits said:
Daps - Kickass thread.

How did the NCAA get away with the Cam Newton ruling? Is that considered to be a complete farce in your circles?
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Bump.

If I missed a previous reply, my bad. Just seems like an egregious case of conflict of interest and looking the other way.

Wonder if it has implications for enforcement down the road.
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My recollection of the Cam Newton case - I would look it up, but I'd rather focus on UM issues - is that the investigation was closed because no violations were found. Basically, instead of sending an NOA, Enforcement sent a letter saying that these people did X, Y, and Z, but we found no violation. I may be a little off, but that is what I remember.
 
djciombor said:
DapperSlapper said:
CaneSuger said:
Dapper

How compelling must the evidence be for an allegation to be included in the NOA? What is the standard?

How about the COI? Is the bar set a little higher there?
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I have no idea what the standard is for inclusion in the NOA - you'd have to ask someone who has worked in NCAA Enforcement. I would imagine that enforcement has a good faith belief in the veracity of the allegation if they include it in the NOA, but maybe that's just the idealist in me.

As for the COI, allegations must be proven by clear and convincing evidence for them. That's a standard above the preponderance of the evidence standard used in the typical civil case in court, but below the reasonable doubt standard used in criminal cases. The NCAA also describes the standard used as "whether the information is credible, persuasive and of a nature that reasonable people would rely upon in the conduct of serious affairs."
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Daps,

Is the evidence used by enforcement to add an allegation to the NOA included at the time the NOA is presented? What info from the NCAA will Miami have upon which to base its rebuttals to various allegations? I can't imagine it's just a list without supporting documentation...
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UM more than likely has had access to all the relevant evidence Enforcement will rely on at the hearing. Enforcement has to make evidence available to the institution and involved individuals (they upload evidence to a secure website and grant access to the institution and involved individuals). If not done prior, then it has to be within 30 days of the date of the NOA.
 
With the news about the NOA that came out today, keep in mind one thing - the NOAs sent to involved individuals who are currently employed by NCAA member institutions are also sent to the president/chancellor of the school that employs the involved individual. If that school is a public institution, then that NOA will be subject to public records requests. What that means is that some of the NOAs to involved individuals should definitely end up in the public domain.
 
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DapperSlapper said:
With the news about the NOA that came out today, keep in mind one thing - the NOAs sent to involved individuals who are currently employed by NCAA member institutions are also sent to the president/chancellor of the school that employs the involved individual. If that school is a public institution, then that NOA will be subject to public records requests. What that means is that some of the NOAs to involved individuals should definitely end up in the public domain.
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Nice. Appreicate the good work. Learned a lot in this thread.
 
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Does the NCAA do random search For violations? Some one like Nick Saban or other big time sec school have alot of dirt! And yet the rich get richer!
 
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Looks like Nevin's sneaky attorney worked a deal where she would actually get paid for her time by the NCAA if she would ask for information the NCAA would not have otherwise gotten because they have no subpoeona power. Early on I thought to myself "how is this chick getting paid with Nevin broke?" I guess we have the answer.

For example. Lets say the NCAA asked to speak with Antrel Rolle and Antrell said "**** off". However, when he is subpeoned to testify and bring documents to a deposition involving the bankruptcy case, you bet your *** he is showing up with everything and answering all questions. It looks like the NCAA lawyers were ghost writing deposition outlines and subpoenas duces tecum for these depositions in exchange for paying her hourly rate that Nevin could not afford.

Wow.....The NCAA can't follow their own rules and they expect the schools to do so themselves? This is really bad for them!
 
This is going to drag crap out even longer. They will have to investigate their own people, review all the **** paperwork and then potentially resume their investigation into us and then do then NOA. Yes we may skate but it drag on another couple of months and ***** us with this year's recruits and possibly next year's. this is long term good news but definitely not short term good news.
 
miami_yak said:
This is going to drag crap out even longer. They will have to investigate their own people, review all the **** paperwork and then potentially resume their investigation into us and then do then NOA. Yes we may skate but it drag on another couple of months and ***** us with this year's recruits and possibly next year's. this is long term good news but definitely not short term good news.
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No its actually not. They said they will finish investigation internally in 7-10 days. Dont kid yourself, this is done. Better than 50% chance the next time we hear from them they will indict themselves and acccept Miami's self imposed punishments as sufficent, possibly with being on double secret probation for a few years, but bowl eligible and no (or very few) scholarships taken away. No way this drags on, they want and need this over. If anything the overall process likely just moved up and we never even get to infractions committee.
 
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