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Myth Busters: Lack of NFL Talent

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Rellyrell said:
This along w/ other future post are not meant to offend; but, for the next few months I will be resurrecting my series on “Myth Busters” surrounding various narratives used to justify/excuse the mediocrity surrounding The University of Miami circa 2004.

A little something about me: I HATE excuses, b/c
-they attempt to lessen the blame or seek to defend/justify
-(If you pledge any African-American Greek organization): Excuses are tools of incompetence used to build bridges to nowhere and monuments of nothingness.

Even though some excuses may have merit, more often than not it pacifies a status quo. With that being said, let’s dive into Myth Buster #2: We haven’t had ‘The Caliber of Talent.’

It may be true we haven’t had the caliber of talent to compete with the O$Us, Bamas, etc., U might be surprised that couldn’t be further from the truth in The ACC. Currently The []_[] sits at a paltry 95-74 (.562 winning %) in ACC Conference play since 2004.

Whether it’s been Coker, Shannon, Golden, Richt, Diaz, or now Mario there’s been this polarizing divide to justify inexcusable loses to certain programs (I’ll get to this in a moment). It’s Coker’s players fault, no it’s Shannon’s player’s fault! Wait, it’s DEFINITELY Golden’s player’s fault! Richt couldn’t recruit & it’s his player’s fault! No, no, no, IT’S LIPSY DIAZ’S player’s fault!!!!!

The commonality? No matter who’s the coach, no matter the era, they all produced mediocre results b/c apparently, none had enough “talent” & it’s always the predecessor’s fault. So let’s examine this claim, & we’re focusing strictly on the ACC, b/c before we can consider how we compare to others, we must examine how we compare to our current peers.

Did you know:
-Since 2004: The University of Miami has more draft picks than any other school in this conference?
Here are the # of NFL draft picks as of 2024’s draft (pls note, this will not include SMU or Cal since they are new members nor will it include former ACC member Maryland)
1. Miami - 100
T-2. FSU - 96
T-2. Clemson - 96
4. VT -63
5. UNC - 62
6. NCST - 53
T-7. BC - 40*
T-7 UVA - 40
9. WF - 34
T-10. GT - 32
T-10. Pitt - 32*
12. UL - 27*
13. Duke - 12
14. Cuse - 11*

*BC joined the ACC in 2005, Syracuse & Pitt joined in 2013, & UL joined in 2014

OK that’s great intel, but if you have followed any of my post, you know I’m big on the ‘quality’ of NFL prospects a team may have. I’ve posted indisputable evidence that the upper echelons have rosters filled with Day 1 & 2 guys or Rds 1-3. Don’t worry I’ve diagnosed this, as well.

Did you know:
-Since 2004: The University of Miami has produced the 3rd most Top-3 round draft picks in the ACC? Here’s the list as of 2024:
1. FSU - 48
2. Clemson - 45
3. Miami - 37
4. UNC - 25
T-5. BC - 21
T-5. VT - 21
T-5. NCSt - 21
8. UVA - 13
T-9. GT - 11
T-9. UL - 11
11. Pitt - 8
12. WF - 7
13. Cuse - 5
14. Duke - 4

Now let’s address the next elephant in the room, recruiting. This has been a soar, & quite contentious topic. Would it surprise you that The []_[] since 2004 has the 2nd highest avg. recruiting class in the ACC? Would it surprise you that our classes has ranked, on avg., in the Top 15 in the Nation? Here are the rankings:
1. FSU (10th)
2. Miami (13th)
3. Clemson (15th)
4. UNC (25th)
5. VT (32nd)
6. UL (40th)
7. NCSt (42nd)
T-8. Pitt (46th)
T-8. UVA (46th)
10. GT (48th)
11. BC (56th)
T-12. Duke (58th)
T-12. Cuse (58th)
14. WF (65th)

So on paper, we’ve:
-Produced more NFL talent than any ACC team since joining
-Produced the 3rd most quality NFL talent than any ACC team since joining
-Have the 2nd highest avg. recruiting ranking since joining the ACC

So how it that:
•VT has 4 ACC crowns despite being ranked 4th, 5th, & 5th in these same categories
•GT has 1 ACC crown despite being ranked 10th, 9th, & 10th in these same categories
•WF has 1 ACC crown despite being ranked 9th, 12, & 14th in the same categories

While we can’t claim 1?

How are we:
3-3 v. BC
11-9 v. GT
4-3 v. NCSt.
3-2 v. UL
1-1 v. Syracuse
8-12 v. UNC

When on paper, our talent has been far superior?

So the ? is, is the “lack of talent” narrative a fact or a myth to excuse mediocrity? Based upon the information provided, I’ll allow the board to decide.
Click to expand...
This is like a DOGE report. Exposing this layer of truth is like the beginning of the exorcist. You are about to see heads spinning, violent outburst.
max von sydow priest GIF
 
Great post, I love smart discussions here by people with intelligence, they are almost completely absent from this site.

I've been saying this for years, for some reason (I guess it's just coaching, really), we are totally incapable of building a complete roster. Just look at this year, for example. In a few years, we're going to say we have X more NFL picks, and most of them will be from the offense (Cam, Martinez, Arroyo, Restrepo, Mauigoa, etc). So we'll do this exercise again and say WTF happened, why didn't we win the league? And it's because we produced the best offense in school history, and paired it with the worst defense anyone can remember. It's maddening. No matter what we do, we can't have a well rounded football team. No coach has been able to do it. Even the 2017 and 2018 teams, we had some good teams, and here comes Zach Feagles and then Bubba Baxa. We can't even get special teams right when we have a good offense or defense.

So, it's been weird. We've had enough talent when you look at it this way, but we can't ever be comparable on both sides of the ball and special teams. It's all "all or nothing". Maddening ****.
 
How do those numbers look if you slide the timeline by ten years? I get that it’s a 20 year look, but a ton of talent came to UM during the early 2000’s as we were coming off the run. Specifically, the 04 and 05 drafts had guys that were on the ‘01 team.

I prefer to look at raw data and draw my own conclusions rather than scan pre digested results and percentages. No, I don’t mean this as a slam against Rell. I do mean that I don’t know who was included from the elite draftees and who was excluded. I also am curious how the numbers look when 04-14 is removed.
 
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FuriousStyles said:
Spot on post… you’ve laid out what felt to be true for some time. We haven’t been as talented deficient as some would like to think. The W’s vs L’s you referenced against that competition is .500. While there’s concern for whether we have the talent to compete against the Ohio State’s of the world we cant get passed UNC?

Lack of talent didn’t keep us out of the ACC championship game this year.
Click to expand...
Disagree....yes was the offense championship level absolutely. The defense on the other hand was trash and the DBs were even worse. That's talent (coaching evals) and want to and that is on the kids.
 
OrangeBowlMagic said:
Great post, I love smart discussions here by people with intelligence, they are almost completely absent from this site.

I've been saying this for years, for some reason (I guess it's just coaching, really), we are totally incapable of building a complete roster. Just look at this year, for example. In a few years, we're going to say we have X more NFL picks, and most of them will be from the offense (Cam, Martinez, Arroyo, Restrepo, Mauigoa, etc). So we'll do this exercise again and say WTF happened, why didn't we win the league? And it's because we produced the best offense in school history, and paired it with the worst defense anyone can remember. It's maddening. No matter what we do, we can't have a well rounded football team. No coach has been able to do it. Even the 2017 and 2018 teams, we had some good teams, and here comes Zach Feagles and then Bubba Baxa. We can't even get special teams right when we have a good offense or defense.

So, it's been weird. We've had enough talent when you look at it this way, but we can't ever be comparable on both sides of the ball and special teams. It's all "all or nothing". Maddening ****.
Click to expand...
Allowing guys with 0 accolades to dictate roster decisions puts you in this predicament. Players like Damari Brown and Tyler Van Dyke should not be able to hold the staff hostage. We create our own problems through complacency.
 
over the last say 10-15 years I’d like to know the ratio between

1. Games we’ve won as an underdog
2. Games we’ve lost as a favorite

We all know college football **** happens. It’s why we love it

But watching teams find ways with talent disadvantages to beat us consistently, while rarely overcoming a talent disadvantage ourselves has always been a problem
 
OrangeBowlMagic said:
Great post, I love smart discussions here by people with intelligence, they are almost completely absent from this site.

I've been saying this for years, for some reason (I guess it's just coaching, really), we are totally incapable of building a complete roster. Just look at this year, for example. In a few years, we're going to say we have X more NFL picks, and most of them will be from the offense (Cam, Martinez, Arroyo, Restrepo, Mauigoa, etc). So we'll do this exercise again and say WTF happened, why didn't we win the league? And it's because we produced the best offense in school history, and paired it with the worst defense anyone can remember. It's maddening. No matter what we do, we can't have a well rounded football team. No coach has been able to do it. Even the 2017 and 2018 teams, we had some good teams, and here comes Zach Feagles and then Bubba Baxa. We can't even get special teams right when we have a good offense or defense.

So, it's been weird. We've had enough talent when you look at it this way, but we can't ever be comparable on both sides of the ball and special teams. It's all "all or nothing". Maddening ****.
Click to expand...
To add to it we've probably had some teams that had 1 good side of the ball, 1 really good side of the ball but a coach who doesnt cater to what we have and it doesnt work; whether we have no iq, they dont like said coach, etc.

There just always seems to be 1 piece where we say "dang if we just add _______ this is a 10+ win team.

This year we were literally just a mediocre defense away from at least making the playoffs
 
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E1k said:
Don’t think we ever will but until then we gotta dominate who’s in front of us in the acc. Acc champs is a lock for the playoffs, that should be the 1st goal every year

That would rejuvenate the national perception of Miami, then we have to sustain that and parlay it into elite recruiting
Click to expand...
I think what we built now should be sustainable for a second year in a row
 
cway313 said:
Allowing guys with 0 accolades to dictate roster decisions puts you in this predicament. Players like Damari Brown and Tyler Van Dyke should not be able to hold the staff hostage. We create our own problems through complacency.
Click to expand...

Playing Monday morning quarterback is invalid here.
 
HurricanePhilly said:
To add to it we've probably had some teams that had 1 good side of the ball, 1 really good side of the ball but a coach who doesnt cater to what we have and it doesnt work; whether we have no iq, they dont like said coach, etc.

There just always seems to be 1 piece where we say "dang if we just add _______ this is a 10+ win team.

This year we were literally just a mediocre defense away from at least making the playoffs
Click to expand...

Yup.

We’ve had enough talent to be better than what we’ve done. Not enough to be great, but enough to be better over the past decade plus. We just never have it spread evenly enough to make a good team. We have decent individual talent year after year. We rarely have good football teams because we often have glaring holes.

Id even go so far as to say last year, “defense” is too broad. If we just have an average secondary, we are easily in the playoffs. But the rest of the team was either excellent or good enough, and one critical area is beyond pathetic. Pretty much Miami football for the better part of 20 years.

Mario fixed the secondary, we think. Now which part of the boat springs a geyser next?
 
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SPFRcane said:
Disagree....yes was the offense championship level absolutely. The defense on the other hand was trash and the DBs were even worse. That's talent (coaching evals) and want to and that is on the kids.
Click to expand...
Respectfully… if you believe lack of talent was the reason why we lost to GT and Syracuse I don’t know what to tell you. What I was talking about was getting “to” the game…. Not even winning it.

3 games to go… we’re UNDEFEATED. Georgia Tech who already lost 4 games, Wake Forest and Syracuse who lost 3 games. All we have to do is win 2 out of the 3 and we’re in. What happened was we put together enough tape by the end of the season that OCs knew what they needed to expose our defense and we didn’t respond to that. That’s it.

And you think it was a talent issue that lost us those games? I’m not saying we didn’t have holes because we did. If talent was the issue and Guidry did the absolute best he could with what he had he’d still be here.
 
OrangeBowlMagic said:
Yup.

We’ve had enough talent to be better than what we’ve done. Not enough to be great, but enough to be better over the past decade plus. We just never have it spread evenly enough to make a good team. We have decent individual talent year after year. We rarely have good football teams because we often have glaring holes.

Id even go so far as to say last year, “defense” is too broad. If we just have an average secondary, we are easily in the playoffs. But the rest of the team was either excellent or good enough, and one critical area is beyond pathetic. Pretty much Miami football for the better part of 20 years.

Mario fixed the secondary, we think. Now which part of the boat springs a geyser next?
Click to expand...
I dont know the finer points of football so maybe im being to general.

But if on 3rd and longs if we just told our line to pin their ears back and get up field A la Manny, minus the delayed blitz and have the DB's up and press a bit would just that little bit of chaos allow our secondary to compete a bit more?

I mean they were bad...but it just seems like there were less talented secondaries doing well enough to compete and get some stops or at least bend but dont break.
 
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Dwinstitles said:
Like I wrote I have not read it, and I disagree with a lot of what I assume it is, cause the NFL draft says so and the pro bowl says so. I am not going to debate back and forth for nothing, he has his view I have mine. Why would I go back and forth to change his mind?... and my mind is set. its pointless to me, but I still f with Rell Pause. I am cool with anyone disagreeing. But when you are in your lane you are in your lane and that's it.
Click to expand...
Wow, An Open Mind is a terrible thing to Waste. Just sayin’
 
Rellyrell said:
This along w/ other future post are not meant to offend; but, for the next few months I will be resurrecting my series on “Myth Busters” surrounding various narratives used to justify/excuse the mediocrity surrounding The University of Miami circa 2004.

A little something about me: I HATE excuses, b/c
-they attempt to lessen the blame or seek to defend/justify
-(If you pledge any African-American Greek organization): Excuses are tools of incompetence used to build bridges to nowhere and monuments of nothingness.

Even though some excuses may have merit, more often than not it pacifies a status quo. With that being said, let’s dive into Myth Buster #2: We haven’t had ‘The Caliber of Talent.’

It may be true we haven’t had the caliber of talent to compete with the O$Us, Bamas, etc., U might be surprised that couldn’t be further from the truth in The ACC. Currently The []_[] sits at a paltry 95-74 (.562 winning %) in ACC Conference play since 2004.

Whether it’s been Coker, Shannon, Golden, Richt, Diaz, or now Mario there’s been this polarizing divide to justify inexcusable loses to certain programs (I’ll get to this in a moment). It’s Coker’s players fault, no it’s Shannon’s player’s fault! Wait, it’s DEFINITELY Golden’s player’s fault! Richt couldn’t recruit & it’s his player’s fault! No, no, no, IT’S LIPSY DIAZ’S player’s fault!!!!!

The commonality? No matter who’s the coach, no matter the era, they all produced mediocre results b/c apparently, none had enough “talent” & it’s always the predecessor’s fault. So let’s examine this claim, & we’re focusing strictly on the ACC, b/c before we can consider how we compare to others, we must examine how we compare to our current peers.

Did you know:
-Since 2004: The University of Miami has more draft picks than any other school in this conference?
Here are the # of NFL draft picks as of 2024’s draft (pls note, this will not include SMU or Cal since they are new members nor will it include former ACC member Maryland)
1. Miami - 100
T-2. FSU - 96
T-2. Clemson - 96
4. VT -63
5. UNC - 62
6. NCST - 53
T-7. BC - 40*
T-7 UVA - 40
9. WF - 34
T-10. GT - 32
T-10. Pitt - 32*
12. UL - 27*
13. Duke - 12
14. Cuse - 11*

*BC joined the ACC in 2005, Syracuse & Pitt joined in 2013, & UL joined in 2014

OK that’s great intel, but if you have followed any of my post, you know I’m big on the ‘quality’ of NFL prospects a team may have. I’ve posted indisputable evidence that the upper echelons have rosters filled with Day 1 & 2 guys or Rds 1-3. Don’t worry I’ve diagnosed this, as well.

Did you know:
-Since 2004: The University of Miami has produced the 3rd most Top-3 round draft picks in the ACC? Here’s the list as of 2024:
1. FSU - 48
2. Clemson - 45
3. Miami - 37
4. UNC - 25
T-5. BC - 21
T-5. VT - 21
T-5. NCSt - 21
8. UVA - 13
T-9. GT - 11
T-9. UL - 11
11. Pitt - 8
12. WF - 7
13. Cuse - 5
14. Duke - 4

Now let’s address the next elephant in the room, recruiting. This has been a soar, & quite contentious topic. Would it surprise you that The []_[] since 2004 has the 2nd highest avg. recruiting class in the ACC? Would it surprise you that our classes has ranked, on avg., in the Top 15 in the Nation? Here are the rankings:
1. FSU (10th)
2. Miami (13th)
3. Clemson (15th)
4. UNC (25th)
5. VT (32nd)
6. UL (40th)
7. NCSt (42nd)
T-8. Pitt (46th)
T-8. UVA (46th)
10. GT (48th)
11. BC (56th)
T-12. Duke (58th)
T-12. Cuse (58th)
14. WF (65th)

So on paper, we’ve:
-Produced more NFL talent than any ACC team since joining
-Produced the 3rd most quality NFL talent than any ACC team since joining
-Have the 2nd highest avg. recruiting ranking since joining the ACC

So how it that:
•VT has 4 ACC crowns despite being ranked 4th, 5th, & 5th in these same categories
•GT has 1 ACC crown despite being ranked 10th, 9th, & 10th in these same categories
•WF has 1 ACC crown despite being ranked 9th, 12, & 14th in the same categories

While we can’t claim 1?

How are we:
3-3 v. BC
11-9 v. GT
4-3 v. NCSt.
3-2 v. UL
1-1 v. Syracuse
8-12 v. UNC

When on paper, our talent has been far superior?

So the ? is, is the “lack of talent” narrative a fact or a myth to excuse mediocrity? Based upon the information provided, I’ll allow the board to decide.
Click to expand...
we have always had a lack of talent
lack of coaching talent
the only coach that was any good was jeff stoutland
and look at his career
the rest of the coaches have been jag to jag minus
 
cway313 said:
Not sure what this means. Are you implying that these weren't points I made prior to each of the last 2 seasons? To reiterate I have said the same thing about RB this year and WR in 2022.
Click to expand...

I mean we needed a quarterback. Just because TVD didn’t pan out after the fact doesn’t mean we should have laughed him out of the building before the 2023 season. He was still a talented player coming off an injury riddled season and we needed a QB.

We haven’t underperformed for 20 years because of things like TVD or Damari Brown. The TVD stuff is the nature of the beast right now.
 
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