Miami vs NCAA Hearings Day 1

[eliteproxy]

EVERY booster that is a football fan, gets information about the team, player status etc.. always.. in every school since beginning of college football. This in itself is not against any rule, law or violation.

Now,

if Shapiro decide to use that information for gambling..= makes him a bad booster
if the coaches KNEW he was using this info to gamble and were providing him gambling tips vs information = violation
if the coaches purposely did not play/bench players in order for Shapiro to gamble = criminal
if the coaches got paid cash because of their tips = violation

seems like the NCAA could not get past point # 1 and all the coaches just told them we didn't tell Shapiro anything different what we told anyone else or we didn't tell him anything. then the NCAA really has zero. All they have is Shapiro is a gambler that despite winning some money on the UNC game he lost about 9 mm that is it


SI will get some press from this because the hearing is coming up. But to me it seems like the SI angle is this.

1. Miami violated allot of rules
2. the NCAA a messed up organization that could not even handle an investigation that the school was cooperating with
3. there are claims of gambling, but since the NCAA messed this up so bad they can't even fully investigate the gambling stuff
4. because of all of this they are so beaten down that everyone can cheat now.. its open season. and they will do some cool headline like "Shut Down The NCAA" (you see what I did there?)


in conclusion.

the article in SI = eh, bs , whatever
the hearing this week = its like the wait before the kick off against UF or FSU

 

[Problem2]

Alexander Wolff, the same ****** that called for Miami to end the football program?

 

[Don Caneleone]

KW benched? That's the best he can come up with? I mean you couldn't find that kind of information on grassy.com. Or straight from a players mouth while playing video games in his dorm room. That's inside information? A crappy injured quarterback may be benched? Wow, groundbreaking inside information squirt. What a load of f'n crap.

This to any objective person just makes Shapiro look like a jerk with an agenda, for which he obviously is.

 

[Andrew]

I would be surprised if we got another bowl ban but everything else I have been saying for a while. I predicted 9 scollies over 3 years (3 a year) and everyone told me Donna wouldn't let that happen and a lawsuit was coming. Donna knows she isn't going to win a suit against the NCAA and we aren't suing no one. Also it goes to show how many last years recruiting class was and why we keep recruiting and taking chances on kids not recruited by others. We are getting sanctions for 2014, no doubt about it. Those sanctions will have a roster limit and a yearly limit like Penn St's does so we won't be able to just cut players because that won't help us with our yearly limit. THis is why we are going to make sure we get our 25 for 2013. We should have done better last year, this isn't about missing out on Thomas or Collins but the other recruits in South Florida we could have got had we showed them some love earlier in the process. Also some think we have already imposed reductions and our recruitment. What we are still doing shows we did not and the article makes no mention of so.

I hope I am wrong and I know none of this is good news, but you got to look at it without your green and orange classes on. Donna and UM did the best job anyone could have done with this and we are getting off light compared to what the NCAA wanted IMO.

They drugged our drink, threw us in the truck and tied us to their bed and you think just because their neighbor came up they are going to let us go?

 

[Boston_Cane]

Tons of notes from Barry Jackson

### In response to the lack of institutional control charge, UM will tell the committee that it hired an investigator (Wayne Black) to check into Shapiro about a decade ago, and he found nothing;.”

Worst P.I. ever! If this guy investigated a McDonald's he'd find no evidence of hamburgers or fat people.

 

[cowboycane]

Alexander Wolff, the same ****** that called for Miami to end the football program?

The same.

 

[UCaneDoIt]

The line moved from 13 to 11. He would have won his bet without any insider information. Are we to be surprised that a ponzi schemer was using his stolen money to gamble? And he would use any information to win a bet?

 

[dycane]

I would be surprised if we got another bowl ban but everything else I have been saying for a while. I predicted 9 scollies over 3 years (3 a year) and everyone told me Donna wouldn't let that happen and a lawsuit was coming. Donna knows she isn't going to win a suit against the NCAA and we aren't suing no one. Also it goes to show how many last years recruiting class was and why we keep recruiting and taking chances on kids not recruited by others. We are getting sanctions for 2014, no doubt about it. Those sanctions will have a roster limit and a yearly limit like Penn St's does so we won't be able to just cut players because that won't help us with our yearly limit. THis is why we are going to make sure we get our 25 for 2013. We should have done better last year, this isn't about missing out on Thomas or Collins but the other recruits in South Florida we could have got had we showed them some love earlier in the process. Also some think we have already imposed reductions and our recruitment. What we are still doing shows we did not and the article makes no mention of so.

I hope I am wrong and I know none of this is good news, but you got to look at it without your green and orange classes on. Donna and UM did the best job anyone could have done with this and we are getting off light compared to what the NCAA wanted IMO.

They drugged our drink, threw us in the truck and tied us to their bed and you think just because their neighbor came up they are going to let us go?

Your flippant response belies the legitimacy of your thin analysis that Donna will, under no circumstances, sue. You're wrong. And everything the woman has done to this point suggests that you are wrong.

Donna is a pro. And pros don't dig in publicly and demand that the other side stand down unless they are willing to take action. She drew the line in the sand and if the NCAA ventures too far beyond it, you bet your *** she will explore litigation. For me, that number is 15 over 3 years. We can manage that if Al's self-imposed reductions count. But I assure you our President will not countenance the NCAA blowing up this program. She has the coach she always wanted and a clean program on the rise.

If you think there is no value in UM filing suit, then you know nothing about the law; or if you do, you're not very creative. The fact that UM is a voluntary member of the NCAA does not, in all circumstances, preclude a claim against the NCAA for its capricious actions. There is plenty to get past a motion to dismiss and into discovery. And that's not a chance the NCAA will want to take, as most reasonable men would safely assume that the NCAA's improprieties (in this case and others) run much deeper than what has been uncovered and disclosed to date.

Bottom line...UM is not going to accept crippling sanctions. What exactly that threshold is remains up for debate. But UM certainly has its own interpretation, and any punishment beyond the university's threshold will be countered with litigation.

 

[riceman]

Tons of notes from Barry Jackson

### In response to the lack of institutional control charge, UM will tell the committee that it hired an investigator (Wayne Black) to check into Shapiro about a decade ago, and he found nothing;.”

Worst P.I. ever! If this guy investigated a McDonald's he'd find no evidence of hamburgers or fat people.

Eh not so fast. Toward the end of Shapiro's career people knew the deal and were weary of him, but 10 years ago he was just a prominent businessman and people were investing in his services left and right. You don't get to nearly a billion when any PI can find out you're a shady dirtbag. Look at him now, Yahoo and SI are all on his jock, and he's a convicted felon who just recently admitted to perjury. He's got a way with words and can influence people. I'm not saying that PI turned over every rock, but I'm sure UM did due diligence and found nothing at that time.

 

[riceman]

I agree with both Andrew and dycane. Andrew to the point that suing is not the first option, this just needs to end. However I'm with dycane in that suing is certainly a possibility. If you see your program being beaten up and you have the option to bend over and take it or fight back, you will fight back. Suing isn't a quick finish, and UM clearly wants to end this sooner rather than later. I'm guessing they're going in with hopes that the NCAA sees this, and calls it. Going further will only bring up more bad news for the NCAA.

 

[Boston_Cane]

Tons of notes from Barry Jackson

### In response to the lack of institutional control charge, UM will tell the committee that it hired an investigator (Wayne Black) to check into Shapiro about a decade ago, and he found nothing;.”

Worst P.I. ever! If this guy investigated a McDonald's he'd find no evidence of hamburgers or fat people.

Eh not so fast. Toward the end of Shapiro's career people knew the deal and were weary of him, but 10 years ago he was just a prominent businessman and people were investing in his services left and right. You don't get to nearly a billion when any PI can find out you're a shady dirtbag. Look at him now, Yahoo and SI are all on his jock, and he's a convicted felon who just recently admitted to perjury. He's got a way with words and can influence people. I'm not saying that PI turned over every rock, but I'm sure UM did due diligence and found nothing at that time.

Yes, you're right. Well said.

 

[Andrew]

I would be surprised if we got another bowl ban but everything else I have been saying for a while. I predicted 9 scollies over 3 years (3 a year) and everyone told me Donna wouldn't let that happen and a lawsuit was coming. Donna knows she isn't going to win a suit against the NCAA and we aren't suing no one. Also it goes to show how many last years recruiting class was and why we keep recruiting and taking chances on kids not recruited by others. We are getting sanctions for 2014, no doubt about it. Those sanctions will have a roster limit and a yearly limit like Penn St's does so we won't be able to just cut players because that won't help us with our yearly limit. THis is why we are going to make sure we get our 25 for 2013. We should have done better last year, this isn't about missing out on Thomas or Collins but the other recruits in South Florida we could have got had we showed them some love earlier in the process. Also some think we have already imposed reductions and our recruitment. What we are still doing shows we did not and the article makes no mention of so.

I hope I am wrong and I know none of this is good news, but you got to look at it without your green and orange classes on. Donna and UM did the best job anyone could have done with this and we are getting off light compared to what the NCAA wanted IMO.

They drugged our drink, threw us in the truck and tied us to their bed and you think just because their neighbor came up they are going to let us go?

Your flippant response belies the legitimacy of your thin analysis that Donna will, under no circumstances, sue. You're wrong. And everything the woman has done to this point suggests that you are wrong.

Donna is a pro. And pros don't dig in publicly and demand that the other side stand down unless they are willing to take action. She drew the line in the sand and if the NCAA ventures too far beyond it, you bet your *** she will explore litigation. For me, that number is 15 over 3 years. We can manage that if Al's self-imposed reductions count. But I assure you our President will not countenance the NCAA blowing up this program. She has the coach she always wanted and a clean program on the rise.

If you think there is no value in UM filing suit, then you know nothing about the law; or if you do, you're not very creative. The fact that UM is a voluntary member of the NCAA does not, in all circumstances, preclude a claim against the NCAA for its capricious actions. There is plenty to get past a motion to dismiss and into discovery. And that's not a chance the NCAA will want to take, as most reasonable men would safely assume that the NCAA's improprieties (in this case and others) run much deeper than what has been uncovered and disclosed to date.

Bottom line...UM is not going to accept crippling sanctions. What exactly that threshold is remains up for debate. But UM certainly has its own interpretation, and any punishment beyond the university's threshold will be countered with litigation.

The article suggest Donna does not plan to sue.

No one is suggestion we get more than 5 scollies a year over 3 years.

Show me the numbers on Al self imposing. He did not self impose 1 scollie.

Al is a great coach but last years recruiting class wasn't what we needed. He made the hires to remedy that and I think 2014 will be more solid. Our sanctions will likely have yearly and total roster limits. We had 84 on our roster last year so if we imposed for 2012 we did so by 1. When fall comes we will see how many we have this year but I think you will see that number pretty close to 85.

I am curious if you have any cases where the NCAA was forced by the court to impose scollie reductions.

Every university president is a pro and no one said the NCAA was going to blow us up. They give us between 3 and 5 a year which UM will accept. We get credit for the bowl bans but we never self imposed scollie reductions.

 

[LatinCane]

Beats the 33 that we got hit with for the Pell Grant scandal.

For football, my prediction is no further bowl bans and 15 scholarships lost over 3 years. I think the University will accept that, especially if Al's self-imposed scholarship restrictions apply. We will get additional years of probation and a few coaches will get hit.

That is not good.

 

[Consigliere]

Tons of notes from Barry Jackson

### In response to the lack of institutional control charge, UM will tell the committee that it hired an investigator (Wayne Black) to check into Shapiro about a decade ago, and he found nothing;.”

Worst P.I. ever! If this guy investigated a McDonald's he'd find no evidence of hamburgers or fat people.

Why? When did the DOJ/FBI catch on to Shapiro? If he is outsmartting the government, we should then be held to a hire standard.

 

[CaneInHeelCountry]

I would be surprised if we got another bowl ban but everything else I have been saying for a while. I predicted 9 scollies over 3 years (3 a year) and everyone told me Donna wouldn't let that happen and a lawsuit was coming. Donna knows she isn't going to win a suit against the NCAA and we aren't suing no one. Also it goes to show how many last years recruiting class was and why we keep recruiting and taking chances on kids not recruited by others. We are getting sanctions for 2014, no doubt about it. Those sanctions will have a roster limit and a yearly limit like Penn St's does so we won't be able to just cut players because that won't help us with our yearly limit. THis is why we are going to make sure we get our 25 for 2013. We should have done better last year, this isn't about missing out on Thomas or Collins but the other recruits in South Florida we could have got had we showed them some love earlier in the process. Also some think we have already imposed reductions and our recruitment. What we are still doing shows we did not and the article makes no mention of so.

I hope I am wrong and I know none of this is good news, but you got to look at it without your green and orange classes on. Donna and UM did the best job anyone could have done with this and we are getting off light compared to what the NCAA wanted IMO.

They drugged our drink, threw us in the truck and tied us to their bed and you think just because their neighbor came up they are going to let us go?

Your flippant response belies the legitimacy of your thin analysis that Donna will, under no circumstances, sue. You're wrong. And everything the woman has done to this point suggests that you are wrong.

Donna is a pro. And pros don't dig in publicly and demand that the other side stand down unless they are willing to take action. She drew the line in the sand and if the NCAA ventures too far beyond it, you bet your *** she will explore litigation. For me, that number is 15 over 3 years. We can manage that if Al's self-imposed reductions count. But I assure you our President will not countenance the NCAA blowing up this program. She has the coach she always wanted and a clean program on the rise.

If you think there is no value in UM filing suit, then you know nothing about the law; or if you do, you're not very creative. The fact that UM is a voluntary member of the NCAA does not, in all circumstances, preclude a claim against the NCAA for its capricious actions. There is plenty to get past a motion to dismiss and into discovery. And that's not a chance the NCAA will want to take, as most reasonable men would safely assume that the NCAA's improprieties (in this case and others) run much deeper than what has been uncovered and disclosed to date.

Bottom line...UM is not going to accept crippling sanctions. What exactly that threshold is remains up for debate. But UM certainly has its own interpretation, and any punishment beyond the university's threshold will be countered with litigation.

The article suggest Donna does not plan to sue.

No one is suggestion we get more than 5 scollies a year over 3 years.

Show me the numbers on Al self imposing. He did not self impose 1 scollie.

Al is a great coach but last years recruiting class wasn't what we needed. He made the hires to remedy that and I think 2014 will be more solid. Our sanctions will likely have yearly and total roster limits. We had 84 on our roster last year so if we imposed for 2012 we did so by 1. When fall comes we will see how many we have this year but I think you will see that number pretty close to 85.

I am curious if you have any cases where the NCAA was forced by the court to impose scollie reductions.

Every university president is a pro and no one said the NCAA was going to blow us up. They give us between 3 and 5 a year which UM will accept. We get credit for the bowl bans but we never self imposed scollie reductions.

The article suggests Donna does not plan to sue...unless we are forced to do so. We all knew (or should have known) that suing was a last resort, not a first or second, and not something that Shalala or the U wanted to do. A bunch of folks on the board got hard-ons when the possibility of suing was mentioned, but Shalala et al know that it's the worst option available, that it would drag this thing out for YEARS, and that it would cost the U many millions. That's not to say they won't pursue it if the NCAA goes HAM on us and tries to slap us with multiple bowl bans or worse at this stage of the game.

 

[Consigliere]

Tons of notes from Barry Jackson

### In response to the lack of institutional control charge, UM will tell the committee that it hired an investigator (Wayne Black) to check into Shapiro about a decade ago, and he found nothing;.”

Worst P.I. ever! If this guy investigated a McDonald's he'd find no evidence of hamburgers or fat people.

Eh not so fast. Toward the end of Shapiro's career people knew the deal and were weary of him, but 10 years ago he was just a prominent businessman and people were investing in his services left and right. You don't get to nearly a billion when any PI can find out you're a shady dirtbag. Look at him now, Yahoo and SI are all on his jock, and he's a convicted felon who just recently admitted to perjury. He's got a way with words and can influence people. I'm not saying that PI turned over every rock, but I'm sure UM did due diligence and found nothing at that time.

Correct.

 

[nycane]

Charles Robinson is a bum. He has bank statements and circles a random transaction and says "Mr. Shaprio claims this is a night he took players out to dinner."

meanwhile at ohio state they take yoga and sewing and no one cares.

 

[Oh Snap]

RT @BFeldmanCBS: SI'a Alex Wolff visited Nevin Shapiro to talk #Miami & the NCAA: http://bit.ly/173eAx9

 

[dk72]

...and was mostly corroborated in an August 2011 Yahoo! Sports report

Wow, I didn't realize Robinson was at the scenes when the alleged allegations happened to able able to corroborate Nevin's stories.

Was wondering about that myself. Printing something does not equal "corroboration". Even the NCAA hasn't pursued a lot of the nonsense in that report because of the utter and complete lack of evidence.

 

[Problem2]

"I spoke with Rich Johanningmeier, the retired NCAA investigator who conducted the first 50 hours of interviews with Shapiro, and bonded with him over the intensity of having Nevin Shapiro in your life. (Your phone rings on the golf course, and it’s Shapiro, Johanningmeier told my colleague Pete Thamel.) Of course he had an agenda, Johanningmeier told me: “To us it’s not relevant if he has an ax to grind. The point is, What are your facts and are they correct? Nevin falls into that category.

“Is he basically telling a true story? Yes. Is there some embellishment? Yes too.”


Oh