Lu, How do we attack F$U on offense and defense?

[MiamiVice7]

Sat around 8:15..you should have the correct and only correct answer...or you can have 1000 opinions...your choice

Isn't the whole idea around this message board, sharing opinions. I actually trust LU when it comes to his breakdowns and analysis which is why I asked for his take on things.

Will try to provide an opinion in a bit. Haven't had a chance to do anything but work today. They don't understand it's FSU week.

There's a ton of good stuff already splattered throughout the front page, though. That stretch play thread is pretty solid.

Yea that's It don't understand FSU week...been thru them since 77....heard it all seen it all....FSU has us beat every year on Paper...and most of the time with good coaching and good QB play and solid D we come out on top...its that simple..match ups are match ups any 12 year old will tell you stop the run and you win...that is not the case anymore we have out ran our last two opponents and barley won, **** we had 4 ints and won...

When FSU is played its in the trenches...I like our chances....dont undertand FSU week......:ibisroflmao:

 

[skyman]

COtdam, Lu is in elite form right now, doing cutups and plays for BOTH teams...


You KNOW its a dam BIG game... Gonna have to + rep a ton of post when I can, amongst all the dreg we get this stuff.

Shout out to Wildcat too, I see you.

 

[Dynasty]

I think Coley just needs to keep things simple for Morris. Morris is what he is. He's not going to become something he isn't before Saturday night. Locate the safeties and possible blitzing slotback presnap, and work the underneath stuff against their linebackers. I believe we can get favorable matchups with Warlord, Duke and Dallas. However, we can't work against a congested intermediate passing area. We've gotta find a way to clear out traffic in order to get those one on one matchups. I'm an advocate of using deep vertical routes to accomplish this. Let Duke, Dallas and Warlord use double moves to create separation underneath. I'm also of the belief that fsu isn't going to allow Duke to be a major factor on the ground early on, so the alternative is to get him the ball in the short to intermediate passing game. The same applies to Dallas. In short, take a few shots down field vertically by using double moves on the outside, clear out the middle of field, and get the ball to Coley, Duke/Dallas and Warlord underneath. When Fsu adjusts, hopefully Morris is in sync and he can connect on a few deep throws. And, we can get the ground game going.

I just want this game to be close going into the fourth quarter. We've been under pressure. Fsu has't faced any pressure at all. The tighter this game is heading down the stretch, the more pressure fsu will feel. If it is close I expect to see another choke at Doak.

Go Canes!!

 

[LuCane]

Sat around 8:15..you should have the correct and only correct answer...or you can have 1000 opinions...your choice

Isn't the whole idea around this message board, sharing opinions. I actually trust LU when it comes to his breakdowns and analysis which is why I asked for his take on things.

Will try to provide an opinion in a bit. Haven't had a chance to do anything but work today. They don't understand it's FSU week.

There's a ton of good stuff already splattered throughout the front page, though. That stretch play thread is pretty solid.

Yea that's It don't understand FSU week...been thru them since 77....heard it all seen it all....FSU has us beat every year on Paper...and most of the time with good coaching and good QB play and solid D we come out on top...its that simple..match ups are match ups any 12 year old will tell you stop the run and you win...that is not the case anymore we have out ran our last two opponents and barley won, **** we had 4 ints and won...

When FSU is played its in the trenches...I like our chances....dont undertand FSU week......:ibisroflmao:

I was talking about my company not understanding it's FSU week, which is why I was working all morning and hadn't gotten a chance to get away.

 

[LuCane]

I think Coley just needs to keep things simple for Morris. Morris is what he is. He's not going to become something he isn't before Saturday night. Locate the safeties and possible blitzing slotback presnap, and work the underneath stuff against their linebackers. I believe we can get favorable matchups with Warlord, Duke and Dallas. However, we can't work against a congested intermediate passing area. We've gotta find a way to clear out traffic in order to get those one on one matchups. I'm an advocate of using deep vertical routes to accomplish this. Let Duke, Dallas and Warlord use double moves to create separation underneath. I'm also of the belief that fsu isn't going to allow Duke to be a major factor on the ground early on, so the alternative is to get him the ball in the short to intermediate passing game. The same applies to Dallas. In short, take a few shots down field vertically by using double moves on the outside, clear out the middle of field, and get the ball to Coley, Duke/Dallas and Warlord underneath. When Fsu adjusts, hopefully Morris is in sync and he can connect on a few deep throws. And, we can get the ground game going.

I just want this game to be close going into the fourth quarter. We've been under pressure. Fsu has't faced any pressure at all. The tighter this game is heading down the stretch, the more pressure fsu will feel. If it is close I expect to see another choke at Doak.

Go Canes!!

Check out the picture on post #66. Cuts the field in half for Morris. One read and a check down out of the backfield. Those are the positions I hoped we'd put Morris in and basically what you reiterated above.

 

[AtrainCane]

Against trips he'll play man technique on the #1 receiver in the trips side. Locked up.

Against the remaining WR's in the trips (2 and 3) he'll play cover-2-sink.

On the single WR side he now has 2 defenders (CB and FS) for 1 WR. The FS becomes a "cutter", meaning he cuts underneath any routes from that single WR. This allows him to send the ILB and OLB from that side without being vulnerable to slants or any other inside route. (now he can send 5 at QB and have all zones covered)

If the offense tries to run 4 verticals you end up with 5 deep defenders.

With good protection this is vulnerable to a post by the number 2 receiver. 1 recvr runs a slant the safety jumps the inside route. Right behind that your 2 recvr runs a post where the safety used to be. The other safety is occupied by the vertical route to the single receiver side. 3 receiver runs a vertical route. middle of the field wide open for the 2 post. The routes would be two outside 9's with a inside receiver slant with a slot post. This is also a fairly common route combo. Remember they have a true frosh playing safety. One wrong decision and its 7 for the good guys.

In that instance...

The Nickle back would be manned up on a post from #2.
The Strong Safety would be manned up on a vertical of #3.
The Corner is manned up on anything #1 runs.

None of the DB's on the trips side would jump a slant or any other shallow route.

The Strong Safety's reads are 3 to 2. If #3 doesn't run a vertical route then he goes to #2.

In that case, it just depends on which defensive play is called. If I was Coley I would put pressure on Ramsey with diff route combos from diff sets to find out how he plays them. Once I figure out how he is playing these routes, throw the counter for 6 or a big gain.

 

[Canesfan1899]

Sat around 8:15..you should have the correct and only correct answer...or you can have 1000 opinions...your choice

Isn't the whole idea around this message board, sharing opinions. I actually trust LU when it comes to his breakdowns and analysis which is why I asked for his take on things.

Will try to provide an opinion in a bit. Haven't had a chance to do anything but work today. They don't understand it's FSU week.

There's a ton of good stuff already splattered throughout the front page, though. That stretch play thread is pretty solid.

Yea that's It don't understand FSU week...been thru them since 77....heard it all seen it all....FSU has us beat every year on Paper...and most of the time with good coaching and good QB play and solid D we come out on top...its that simple..match ups are match ups any 12 year old will tell you stop the run and you win...that is not the case anymore we have out ran our last two opponents and barley won, **** we had 4 ints and won...

When FSU is played its in the trenches...I like our chances....dont undertand FSU week......:ibisroflmao:

Well ****, we should just shut the board down until after the game then.

 

[Gatorhater]

We have one huge advantage in this game. If it is close, it is our nature to win and their DNA is to choke. I think Al made it clear at the UF game that this team was built to win close. Last year he knew he only chance was scoring tons. Now he has strong durable D. I think he plays for a close game- avoid mistakes, work for filed position, frustrate Nole's O, and go for the win in the 4th quarter.

 

[bear]

While I agree that dorsett will be missed let's not forget Herb also has good speed outside that they are going to have to respect. Hurns is our obvious posession receiver and Coley is capable both in the slot and also outside. Love to see duke in the slot with Herb and Coley stacked on one side and Hurns outside on the other side of the field. Walford on a wheel route here could also work. We are going to have to think outside the box. We have enought weapons on offense to be disruptive. Oline has to give morris SOME time and obviosuly Morris is going to have to play smart and hopefully no turnovers.

 

[Canesfan1899]

I would like to see us have Duke in the slot some with Dallas at TB and fake a jet sweep to duke, and run it with Dallas. I want to see Coley show some creativity, doesn't need to be the cute **** that got Fisch in trouble, but we need to get their defense on their heels a little bit to soften up their front to give Duke some solid running room.

 

[Mico Jones]

Against what I've seen us do, we'd need R. Jenkins to have the game of his life AND work in unison with Perryman/Gaines to consistently stop this attack. Another way to address it is to go with what some have called for: take your chances with the pass rushers (Mccord and AQM) to disrupt things on earlier downs. If we stay in our predictable DL package and set and FSU does this, Winston will have more than enough time to read a simple combination in the middle of the field. See below:

View attachment 23946

I don't think we have the horses at LB and SS to hang, all other things being equal. The thought of Armbrister, Cornelius and Highsmith in space against their WRs or RBs is not a comforting one. Will need to invoke the holy spirit and tackle, tackle, tackle. Generating an early turnover (and converting it into points) would be huge. And if Winstrol is half the QB the entire country thinks he is, the second he sees 17 or 98 on the field before a passing sitch on 3rd down, he should be audibling to a power run at either of them. Seems like an easy way to neutralize that particular tactic, should it ever come up.

Ultimately, getting exotic would be extremely out of character for this staff so don't hold your breath. I'm not expecting anything earth-shattering other than a few more blitzes to test Winstrol's decision-making. We'll play safe, attempt keep things in front of us and try to knock their heads off and force a fumble or three. And if we can actually generate a pass rush with 4, it might be enough to keep it close for a while. After that, just hope the good version of Morris shows up.

This. Jimbo likes to attack safe on 3rd and long anyways. Draws, Runs, Screens, QB Keepers against our Rush package.

 

[Mico Jones]

The original question asks how would I attack them on defense. I keep finding ways for them to attack us.

Here's a play I wouldn't be surprised to see on the first drive. To set the tone.

View attachment 23948
View attachment 23949

The play actually failed and I'm not sure if it was run again. It had potential, but a number of things/timing went wrong. Against what we do, if we get into one of those predictable blitz spots, I can see Jimbo reaching back to something like this on a 3rd and 7 or so.

Jimbo has made a killing against us like this.

 

[Dirtyj]

What a great thread.

 

[Coach Macho]

With good protection this is vulnerable to a post by the number 2 receiver. 1 recvr runs a slant the safety jumps the inside route. Right behind that your 2 recvr runs a post where the safety used to be. The other safety is occupied by the vertical route to the single receiver side. 3 receiver runs a vertical route. middle of the field wide open for the 2 post. The routes would be two outside 9's with a inside receiver slant with a slot post. This is also a fairly common route combo. Remember they have a true frosh playing safety. One wrong decision and its 7 for the good guys.

In that instance...

The Nickle back would be manned up on a post from #2.
The Strong Safety would be manned up on a vertical of #3.
The Corner is manned up on anything #1 runs.

None of the DB's on the trips side would jump a slant or any other shallow route.

The Strong Safety's reads are 3 to 2. If #3 doesn't run a vertical route then he goes to #2.

So if we don't utilize the middle we are screwed?

I'm a fan of attacking the Safeties.

Corners get help from Safeties and Linebackers. Who do the Safeties get help from? (nobody)

It's easy to get Safeties in 1-on-1 situations. Yeah, there's LB's underneath that can force throws to go over the top, which helps the Safeties, but if your LB's are dropping that deep then you should be able to steal anything you want underneath.

This all presumes a QB can fit the ball between the LBs and Safeties (meaning touch/anticipation) or, in the alternative, is willing/able to check (meaning process info) underneath those LBs to hit guys accurately on the move. This is why I constantly argue that physical attributes are important, but secondary (b/c more often than not they'll at least be adequate) in evaluating QBs. I am repeating myself: Morris needs to do some of this stuff for us to have a shot up there.

No doubt.

To branch off that...

There's several ways to get 1-on-1 match-ups with the Safeties and attack them with speedy slot WR's, especially in Cover-2.

It really all comes down to "high low" concepts IMO. (meaning: picking on one defender with a short route in front of him and another route behind him i.e. high and low) You gotta put defenders in a bind.

Follow me...

2x2 formation. The defense gives you Cover-2. You run a slant or drag (or any shallow inside routes) with the #1 WR. This forces the LB to that side to step-up. When he steps up you should be able to throw a dig to #2 (slot) right behind his head. If the Safety is back pedaling it's impossible for him to make that play. If the LB continues to drop and sits underneath the dig then you steal the shallow route to #1 for an easy 6+ yards. THIS IS A HIGH-LOW CONCEPT. You've put that LB in a bind. (and created a 1-on-1 match-up with the Safety)

This is why I ***** about Coley, cause I don't see us doing this. (or we do and just don't throw it) Last week we ran a hitch from #2 and a dig from #1. The LB came up on the hitch and Morris threw the dig right behind his head. (to Coley I think) In the final drive of the UNC game, we ran an out-route with #2 and when the CB stepped up to cover it Morris threw the ball down the sideline to Waters for a big gain. (we "high lowed" the Corner) MACHO NEEDS MORE OF THIS!!

MORE CONCEPTS PLEASE! LESS PLAYS!

Concepts > Plays

 

[Canesfan1899]

In that instance...

The Nickle back would be manned up on a post from #2.
The Strong Safety would be manned up on a vertical of #3.
The Corner is manned up on anything #1 runs.

None of the DB's on the trips side would jump a slant or any other shallow route.

The Strong Safety's reads are 3 to 2. If #3 doesn't run a vertical route then he goes to #2.

So if we don't utilize the middle we are screwed?

I'm a fan of attacking the Safeties.

Corners get help from Safeties and Linebackers. Who do the Safeties get help from? (nobody)

It's easy to get Safeties in 1-on-1 situations. Yeah, there's LB's underneath that can force throws to go over the top, which helps the Safeties, but if your LB's are dropping that deep then you should be able to steal anything you want underneath.

This all presumes a QB can fit the ball between the LBs and Safeties (meaning touch/anticipation) or, in the alternative, is willing/able to check (meaning process info) underneath those LBs to hit guys accurately on the move. This is why I constantly argue that physical attributes are important, but secondary (b/c more often than not they'll at least be adequate) in evaluating QBs. I am repeating myself: Morris needs to do some of this stuff for us to have a shot up there.

No doubt.

To branch off that...

There's several ways to get 1-on-1 match-ups with the Safeties and attack them with speedy slot WR's, especially in Cover-2.

It really all comes down to "high low" concepts IMO. (meaning: picking on one defender with a short route in front of him and another route behind him i.e. high and low) You gotta put defenders in a bind.

Follow me...

2x2 formation. The defense gives you Cover-2. You run a slant or drag (or any shallow inside routes) with the #1 WR. This forces the LB to that side to step-up. When he steps up you should be able to throw a dig to #2 (slot) right behind his head. If the Safety is back pedaling it's impossible for him to make that play. If the LB continues to drop and sits underneath the dig then you steal the shallow route to #1 for an easy 6+ yards. THIS IS A HIGH-LOW CONCEPT. You've put that LB in a bind. (and created a 1-on-1 match-up with the Safety)

This is why I ***** about Coley, cause I don't see us doing this. (or we do and just don't throw it) Last week we ran a hitch from #2 and a dig from #1. The LB came up on the hitch and Morris threw the dig right behind his head. (to Coley I think) In the final drive of the UNC game, we ran an out-route with #2 and when the CB stepped up to cover it Morris threw the ball down the sideline to Waters for a big gain. (we "high lowed" the Corner) MACHO NEEDS MORE OF THIS!!

MORE CONCEPTS PLEASE! LESS PLAYS!

Concepts > Plays

Nice analysis.

 

[Coach Macho]

Also...

Sending Duke on routes in the middle of the field will open up things as well.

Run those LB's off with vertical releases from the WR's...and as those LB's get depth in their drop you should be able to dump it off to Duke for a minimum of 6 yards. If the LB's honor Duke then you should be able to steal something behind them. (i.e. dig, post, etc.)

As a defensive coach I can tell you this concept is a ***** to defend, especially when you got a guy like Duke. Now the LB's don't get adequate depth in their drops (cause they're worried about Duke) which opens things up in the middle of the field.

 

[getcaned]

wear those b!tches down and own the 4th quarter tough the **** out of them. make them feel the pain

 

[Canesfan1899]

Also...

Sending Duke on routes in the middle of the field will open up things as well.

Run those LB's off with vertical releases from the WR's...and as those LB's get depth in their drop you should be able to dump it off to Duke for a minimum of 6 yards. If the LB's honor Duke then you should be able to steal something behind them. (i.e. dig, post, etc.)

As a defensive coach I can tell you this concept is a ***** to defend, especially when you got a guy like Duke. Now the LB's don't get adequate depth in their drops (cause they're worried about Duke) which opens things up in the middle of the field.

I'm praying we do some of that with Warlord down the seem and Duke coming out of the backfield over the middle, it will make them pick their poison and I feel like it will open things up on the outside as well.

 

[LuCane]

Also...

Sending Duke on routes in the middle of the field will open up things as well.

Run those LB's off with vertical releases from the WR's...and as those LB's get depth in their drop you should be able to dump it off to Duke for a minimum of 6 yards. If the LB's honor Duke then you should be able to steal something behind them. (i.e. dig, post, etc.)

As a defensive coach I can tell you this concept is a ***** to defend, especially when you got a guy like Duke. Now the LB's don't get adequate depth in their drops (cause they're worried about Duke) which opens things up in the middle of the field.

That's what I showed in the pic on post #66. Clemson tried to do this. Problem is two-fold for us: (1) will our OL hold up? and (2) even if Duke beats Telvin Smith, is Morris able to hit him in stride?

Here's the pic again:

 

[AUcane]

You all think Tevin will always be on Duke should that happen?