Lu, How do we attack F$U on offense and defense?

[Coach Macho]

Keep in mind...this is just ONE of the things Pruitt does against trips. Not sure what else he does. I think this is just for passing situations.

 

[Canesfan1899]

Against trips he'll play man technique on the #1 receiver in the trips side. Locked up.

Against the remaining WR's in the trips (2 and 3) he'll play cover-2-sink.

On the single WR side he now has 2 defenders (CB and FS) for 1 WR. The FS becomes a "cutter", meaning he cuts underneath any routes from that single WR. This allows him to send the ILB and OLB from that side without being vulnerable to slants or any other inside route. (now he can send 5 at QB and have all zones covered)

If the offense tries to run 4 verticals you end up with 5 deep defenders.

Seems like we could hit a flare to Duke out of the backfield and take advantage of their 5 DB's playing deep.

They won't let Duke just run a flare all by himself. There's several ways to run this coverage and defend the flare. (atleast these are the ways that I use)

1. The blitzing OLB is a "peel" player, meaning he's blitzing but he peels if the RB peels. He basically ends up playing 'man' on the RB if he flares.
2. The ILB to the weak-side doesn't blitz at all. He becomes the "expander", meaning he expands his zone to the flats if the RB flares.
3. On the single WR side you play Cover-3 (FS covers flare) or Cover-2 (CB covers flare).

What I said about blitzing the ILB and OLB (bringing 5) is just a rinkle that I put in. It's not what Pruitt does, however he does have the option to do so.

So how would you attack Pruitts Defense? You seem to have some knowledge as to what he runs, how do we beat it.

 

[LuCane]

Against trips he'll play man technique on the #1 receiver in the trips side. Locked up.

Against the remaining WR's in the trips (2 and 3) he'll play cover-2-sink.

On the single WR side he now has 2 defenders (CB and FS) for 1 WR. The FS becomes a "cutter", meaning he cuts underneath any routes from that single WR. This allows him to send the ILB and OLB from that side without being vulnerable to slants or any other inside route. (now he can send 5 at QB and have all zones covered)

If the offense tries to run 4 verticals you end up with 5 deep defenders.

Run a pitchout. One pitchout out of trips/bunch. Go to :44 --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al32pM_M7gE

He doesn't run this coverage against trips-bunch.

Against regular trips the Sam LB or Nickel is outside leverage on the #2 WR, which means he can easily set the edge.
The DE is most likely gonna be Pruitt's 5-technique which will allow FSU to disrupt the toss.

I like that toss out of bunch. Regular trips, not so much.

I like bunch overall. I've been messing around about optimism that we'll see new stuff this game, but my guess is I don't think bunch is used in our playbook. A lot of the route combos are timing and I suspect we would have at least seen it by now. Most likely against UNC. We used to run an underneath route combination out of bunch that was a clean read for the QB. Ryan Moore scored a number of times on it. Would be nice to see Morris settle down with something like that.

 

[Canesfan1899]

Against trips he'll play man technique on the #1 receiver in the trips side. Locked up.

Against the remaining WR's in the trips (2 and 3) he'll play cover-2-sink.

On the single WR side he now has 2 defenders (CB and FS) for 1 WR. The FS becomes a "cutter", meaning he cuts underneath any routes from that single WR. This allows him to send the ILB and OLB from that side without being vulnerable to slants or any other inside route. (now he can send 5 at QB and have all zones covered)

If the offense tries to run 4 verticals you end up with 5 deep defenders.

Run a pitchout. One pitchout out of trips/bunch. Go to :44 --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al32pM_M7gE

He doesn't run this coverage against trips-bunch.

Against regular trips the Sam LB or Nickel is outside leverage on the #2 WR, which means he can easily set the edge.
The DE is most likely gonna be Pruitt's 5-technique which will allow FSU to disrupt the toss.

I like that toss out of bunch. Regular trips, not so much.

I like bunch overall. I've been messing around about optimism that we'll see new stuff this game, but my guess is I don't think bunch is used in our playbook. A lot of the route combos are timing and I suspect we would have at least seen it by now. Most likely against UNC. We used to run an underneath route combination out of bunch that was a clean read for the QB. Ryan Moore scored a number of times on it. Would be nice to see Morris settle down with something like that.

I think any crossing route right now would give me instant wood. Whether it's Morris or Coley we just don't seem to want to attack the middle of the field.

 

[AtrainCane]

Against trips he'll play man technique on the #1 receiver in the trips side. Locked up.

Against the remaining WR's in the trips (2 and 3) he'll play cover-2-sink.

On the single WR side he now has 2 defenders (CB and FS) for 1 WR. The FS becomes a "cutter", meaning he cuts underneath any routes from that single WR. This allows him to send the ILB and OLB from that side without being vulnerable to slants or any other inside route. (now he can send 5 at QB and have all zones covered)

If the offense tries to run 4 verticals you end up with 5 deep defenders.

With good protection this is vulnerable to a post by the number 2 receiver. 1 recvr runs a slant the safety jumps the inside route. Right behind that your 2 recvr runs a post where the safety used to be. The other safety is occupied by the vertical route to the single receiver side. 3 receiver runs a vertical route. middle of the field wide open for the 2 post. The routes would be two outside 9's with a inside receiver slant with a slot post. This is also a fairly common route combo. Remember they have a true frosh playing safety. One wrong decision and its 7 for the good guys.

 

[LuCane]

Here's where it seems you have a positive chance of getting FSU for chunks:



In the play above, a few things happened:

(1) The play was predictably done to get the RB one on one. Problem was it was one on one with T. Smith - who many believe is their most talented defender.

(2) OL didn't block perfectly, so Boyd rushed the throw.

(3) Boyd didn't step up or slide left (or both), so he completely missed what was a huge window in the middle of the field and a WR running a deep in directly into it.

What I think the Canes can do:

Yes, Duke is our "most important player" and we need him to make plays for us to win. FSU knows this, too. Use him similarly here. Make it an easy read for Morris. Read the left side of the field. If Duke beats his guy, great. If the Safety stays over the top of R. Scott, there'll be the middle window. If the Safety doubles Coley, you have 1 on 1 with Scott. Morris will have to settle, set his feet, and make a play.

 

[BigCaneAl]

Here's where it seems you have a positive chance of getting FSU for chunks:

View attachment 23947

In the play above, a few things happened:

(1) The play was predictably done to get the RB one on one. Problem was it was one on one with T. Smith - who many believe is their most talented defender.

(2) OL didn't block perfectly, so Boyd rushed the throw.

(3) Boyd didn't step up or slide left (or both), so he completely missed what was a huge window in the middle of the field and a WR running a deep in directly into it.

What I think the Canes can do:

Yes, Duke is our "most important player" and we need him to make plays for us to win. FSU knows this, too. Use him similarly here. Make it an easy read for Morris. Read the left side of the field. If Duke beats his guy, great. If the Safety stays over the top of R. Scott, there'll be the middle window. If the Safety doubles Coley, you have 1 on 1 with Scott. Morris will have to settle, set his feet, and make a play.

Sadly, I don't think at this point we will be able to hit a single crossing route. No way he see's Coley there. We had Herb running those against WF wide open.

 

[LuCane]

Here's where it seems you have a positive chance of getting FSU for chunks:

View attachment 23947

In the play above, a few things happened:

(1) The play was predictably done to get the RB one on one. Problem was it was one on one with T. Smith - who many believe is their most talented defender.

(2) OL didn't block perfectly, so Boyd rushed the throw.

(3) Boyd didn't step up or slide left (or both), so he completely missed what was a huge window in the middle of the field and a WR running a deep in directly into it.

What I think the Canes can do:

Yes, Duke is our "most important player" and we need him to make plays for us to win. FSU knows this, too. Use him similarly here. Make it an easy read for Morris. Read the left side of the field. If Duke beats his guy, great. If the Safety stays over the top of R. Scott, there'll be the middle window. If the Safety doubles Coley, you have 1 on 1 with Scott. Morris will have to settle, set his feet, and make a play.

Sadly, I don't think at this point we will be able to hit a single crossing route. No way he see's Coley there. We had Herb running those against WF wide open.

Worse yet, the above graphic is a good example of where we'll sorely miss Dorsett. Even if he can't make actual plays, his vertical speed is respected. You'd be able to put Coley on the outside (where Scott is), Dorsett in the slot and Scott where Hurns is running a vertical. Instead of running the in from the slot, you run Dorsett vertical and run Coley on a drag behind Smith. Not a super difficult read and lots of green grass if Morris places the ball.

 

[AUcane]

Agree on Dorsett. Will miss his ability to stretch the field/command deep respect. Otherwise, it's all intermediate stuff since none of our guys can stretch like Dorsett can (Coley, to an extent).

 

[BigCaneAl]

Here's where it seems you have a positive chance of getting FSU for chunks:

View attachment 23947

In the play above, a few things happened:

(1) The play was predictably done to get the RB one on one. Problem was it was one on one with T. Smith - who many believe is their most talented defender.

(2) OL didn't block perfectly, so Boyd rushed the throw.

(3) Boyd didn't step up or slide left (or both), so he completely missed what was a huge window in the middle of the field and a WR running a deep in directly into it.

What I think the Canes can do:

Yes, Duke is our "most important player" and we need him to make plays for us to win. FSU knows this, too. Use him similarly here. Make it an easy read for Morris. Read the left side of the field. If Duke beats his guy, great. If the Safety stays over the top of R. Scott, there'll be the middle window. If the Safety doubles Coley, you have 1 on 1 with Scott. Morris will have to settle, set his feet, and make a play.

Sadly, I don't think at this point we will be able to hit a single crossing route. No way he see's Coley there. We had Herb running those against WF wide open.

Worse yet, the above graphic is a good example of where we'll sorely miss Dorsett. Even if he can't make actual plays, his vertical speed is respected. You'd be able to put Coley on the outside (where Scott is), Dorsett in the slot and Scott where Hurns is running a vertical. Instead of running the in from the slot, you run Dorsett vertical and run Coley on a drag behind Smith. Not a super difficult read and lots of green grass if Morris places the ball.

I know you charted some of the WF game...go back and look at Herb in the second quarter overthrow of Lewis, and on the one in the dirt to Coley in the 3rd quarter. Exactly the same route above...minus a defender on his hip. Depressing.

 

[LuCane]

I mentioned it yesterday when I wrote that long post. Saw it. Something's gotta give, man. If we're gonna pull off this "miracle," Morris will absolutely have to hit a second read.

 

[LuCane]

The original question asks how would I attack them on defense. I keep finding ways for them to attack us.

Here's a play I wouldn't be surprised to see on the first drive. To set the tone.




The play actually failed and I'm not sure if it was run again. It had potential, but a number of things/timing went wrong. Against what we do, if we get into one of those predictable blitz spots, I can see Jimbo reaching back to something like this on a 3rd and 7 or so.

 

[Gamineal]

Sat around 8:15..you should have the correct and only correct answer...or you can have 1000 opinions...your choice

Isn't the whole idea around this message board, sharing opinions. I actually trust LU when it comes to his breakdowns and analysis which is why I asked for his take on things.

Will try to provide an opinion in a bit. Haven't had a chance to do anything but work today. They don't understand it's FSU week.

There's a ton of good stuff already splattered throughout the front page, though. That stretch play thread is pretty solid.

Yea that's It don't understand FSU week...been thru them since 77....heard it all seen it all....FSU has us beat every year on Paper...and most of the time with good coaching and good QB play and solid D we come out on top...its that simple..match ups are match ups any 12 year old will tell you stop the run and you win...that is not the case anymore we have out ran our last two opponents and barley won, **** we had 4 ints and won...

When FSU is played its in the trenches...I like our chances....dont undertand FSU week......:ibisroflmao:

 

[Coach Macho]

Against trips he'll play man technique on the #1 receiver in the trips side. Locked up.

Against the remaining WR's in the trips (2 and 3) he'll play cover-2-sink.

On the single WR side he now has 2 defenders (CB and FS) for 1 WR. The FS becomes a "cutter", meaning he cuts underneath any routes from that single WR. This allows him to send the ILB and OLB from that side without being vulnerable to slants or any other inside route. (now he can send 5 at QB and have all zones covered)

If the offense tries to run 4 verticals you end up with 5 deep defenders.

With good protection this is vulnerable to a post by the number 2 receiver. 1 recvr runs a slant the safety jumps the inside route. Right behind that your 2 recvr runs a post where the safety used to be. The other safety is occupied by the vertical route to the single receiver side. 3 receiver runs a vertical route. middle of the field wide open for the 2 post. The routes would be two outside 9's with a inside receiver slant with a slot post. This is also a fairly common route combo. Remember they have a true frosh playing safety. One wrong decision and its 7 for the good guys.

In that instance...

The Nickle back would be manned up on a post from #2.
The Strong Safety would be manned up on a vertical of #3.
The Corner is manned up on anything #1 runs.

None of the DB's on the trips side would jump a slant or any other shallow route.

The Strong Safety's reads are 3 to 2. If #3 doesn't run a vertical route then he goes to #2.

 

[BigCaneAl]

Against trips he'll play man technique on the #1 receiver in the trips side. Locked up.

Against the remaining WR's in the trips (2 and 3) he'll play cover-2-sink.

On the single WR side he now has 2 defenders (CB and FS) for 1 WR. The FS becomes a "cutter", meaning he cuts underneath any routes from that single WR. This allows him to send the ILB and OLB from that side without being vulnerable to slants or any other inside route. (now he can send 5 at QB and have all zones covered)

If the offense tries to run 4 verticals you end up with 5 deep defenders.

With good protection this is vulnerable to a post by the number 2 receiver. 1 recvr runs a slant the safety jumps the inside route. Right behind that your 2 recvr runs a post where the safety used to be. The other safety is occupied by the vertical route to the single receiver side. 3 receiver runs a vertical route. middle of the field wide open for the 2 post. The routes would be two outside 9's with a inside receiver slant with a slot post. This is also a fairly common route combo. Remember they have a true frosh playing safety. One wrong decision and its 7 for the good guys.

In that instance...

The Nickle back would be manned up on a post from #2.
The Strong Safety would be manned up on a vertical of #3.
The Corner is manned up on anything #1 runs.

None of the DB's on the trips side would jump a slant or any other shallow route.

The Strong Safety's reads are 3 to 2. If #3 doesn't run a vertical route then he goes to #2.

So if we don't utilize the middle we are screwed?

 

[Coach Macho]

Against trips he'll play man technique on the #1 receiver in the trips side. Locked up.

Against the remaining WR's in the trips (2 and 3) he'll play cover-2-sink.

On the single WR side he now has 2 defenders (CB and FS) for 1 WR. The FS becomes a "cutter", meaning he cuts underneath any routes from that single WR. This allows him to send the ILB and OLB from that side without being vulnerable to slants or any other inside route. (now he can send 5 at QB and have all zones covered)

If the offense tries to run 4 verticals you end up with 5 deep defenders.

Seems like we could hit a flare to Duke out of the backfield and take advantage of their 5 DB's playing deep.

They won't let Duke just run a flare all by himself. There's several ways to run this coverage and defend the flare. (atleast these are the ways that I use)

1. The blitzing OLB is a "peel" player, meaning he's blitzing but he peels if the RB peels. He basically ends up playing 'man' on the RB if he flares.
2. The ILB to the weak-side doesn't blitz at all. He becomes the "expander", meaning he expands his zone to the flats if the RB flares.
3. On the single WR side you play Cover-3 (FS covers flare) or Cover-2 (CB covers flare).

What I said about blitzing the ILB and OLB (bringing 5) is just a rinkle that I put in. It's not what Pruitt does, however he does have the option to do so.

So how would you attack Pruitts Defense? You seem to have some knowledge as to what he runs, how do we beat it.

Well I don't know Pruitt's defense I just know that one coverage.

I know a couple ways I would attack that coverage, but how do I know if THAT is the coverage he'll be running every time I line-up in trips formation? LOL

Personally I use several coverages to defend trips formation and some of them look identical pre-snap. It's takes extensive film review to figure out what exact coverage a defense is running based on how they line up. If I see Pruitt's Nickle DB lined up outside shoulder and roughly 5 yards off of my #2 WR and his Corner lined up in man technique on #1 then I know he's running THIS particular coverage I'm talking about. (then I can adjust my play at the line) At that point I can call a play that gives us the best chance against this coverage.

 

[Coach Macho]

Against trips he'll play man technique on the #1 receiver in the trips side. Locked up.

Against the remaining WR's in the trips (2 and 3) he'll play cover-2-sink.

On the single WR side he now has 2 defenders (CB and FS) for 1 WR. The FS becomes a "cutter", meaning he cuts underneath any routes from that single WR. This allows him to send the ILB and OLB from that side without being vulnerable to slants or any other inside route. (now he can send 5 at QB and have all zones covered)

If the offense tries to run 4 verticals you end up with 5 deep defenders.

With good protection this is vulnerable to a post by the number 2 receiver. 1 recvr runs a slant the safety jumps the inside route. Right behind that your 2 recvr runs a post where the safety used to be. The other safety is occupied by the vertical route to the single receiver side. 3 receiver runs a vertical route. middle of the field wide open for the 2 post. The routes would be two outside 9's with a inside receiver slant with a slot post. This is also a fairly common route combo. Remember they have a true frosh playing safety. One wrong decision and its 7 for the good guys.

In that instance...

The Nickle back would be manned up on a post from #2.
The Strong Safety would be manned up on a vertical of #3.
The Corner is manned up on anything #1 runs.

None of the DB's on the trips side would jump a slant or any other shallow route.

The Strong Safety's reads are 3 to 2. If #3 doesn't run a vertical route then he goes to #2.

So if we don't utilize the middle we are screwed?

I'm a fan of attacking the Safeties.

Corners get help from Safeties and Linebackers. Who do the Safeties get help from? (nobody)

It's easy to get Safeties in 1-on-1 situations. Yeah, there's LB's underneath that can force throws to go over the top, which helps the Safeties, but if your LB's are dropping that deep then you should be able to steal anything you want underneath.

 

[cubin10]

Sat around 8:15..you should have the correct and only correct answer...or you can have 1000 opinions...your choice

Isn't the whole idea around this message board, sharing opinions. I actually trust LU when it comes to his breakdowns and analysis which is why I asked for his take on things.

Restating the obvious, and appreciate your thoughts in stimulating opinion.

 

[LuCane]

Against trips he'll play man technique on the #1 receiver in the trips side. Locked up.

Against the remaining WR's in the trips (2 and 3) he'll play cover-2-sink.

On the single WR side he now has 2 defenders (CB and FS) for 1 WR. The FS becomes a "cutter", meaning he cuts underneath any routes from that single WR. This allows him to send the ILB and OLB from that side without being vulnerable to slants or any other inside route. (now he can send 5 at QB and have all zones covered)

If the offense tries to run 4 verticals you end up with 5 deep defenders.

With good protection this is vulnerable to a post by the number 2 receiver. 1 recvr runs a slant the safety jumps the inside route. Right behind that your 2 recvr runs a post where the safety used to be. The other safety is occupied by the vertical route to the single receiver side. 3 receiver runs a vertical route. middle of the field wide open for the 2 post. The routes would be two outside 9's with a inside receiver slant with a slot post. This is also a fairly common route combo. Remember they have a true frosh playing safety. One wrong decision and its 7 for the good guys.

In that instance...

The Nickle back would be manned up on a post from #2.
The Strong Safety would be manned up on a vertical of #3.
The Corner is manned up on anything #1 runs.

None of the DB's on the trips side would jump a slant or any other shallow route.

The Strong Safety's reads are 3 to 2. If #3 doesn't run a vertical route then he goes to #2.

So if we don't utilize the middle we are screwed?

I'm a fan of attacking the Safeties.

Corners get help from Safeties and Linebackers. Who do the Safeties get help from? (nobody)

It's easy to get Safeties in 1-on-1 situations. Yeah, there's LB's underneath that can force throws to go over the top, which helps the Safeties, but if your LB's are dropping that deep then you should be able to steal anything you want underneath.

This all presumes a QB can fit the ball between the LBs and Safeties (meaning touch/anticipation) or, in the alternative, is willing/able to check (meaning process info) underneath those LBs to hit guys accurately on the move. This is why I constantly argue that physical attributes are important, but secondary (b/c more often than not they'll at least be adequate) in evaluating QBs. I am repeating myself: Morris needs to do some of this stuff for us to have a shot up there.

 

[ThaiCane]

ESPNU Film room on right now looking at UM-FSU.